Hello teachers,

This is an excerpt of my posting on two other PW forums.

For now I am going back to the Hanon exercises which I haven't done for two or three years and I have a question for you all.
Each Hanon exercise is shown for the scale of C+.
Now...should I go thru each exercise, including the different rhythm patterns, in the C+ scale until I've done them all or should I stick with one exercise and do it in all the major and minor scales before I move onto the next exercise?
Of course I don't mean all in one sitting but say one day in C+, the next day in D+, etc.?
In one sitting how much Hanon is too much, when it becomes "un-beneficial" (is that a word?)?

Thank you for your suggestions.

It is good to do other keys as you go, in my opinion. I would use a "goal-driven" strategy. For instance, try go get #1 up to some particular tempo (start slow) in all keys. Start with C. When you can play it at the tempo you want, move to the next key. You'll find that closer related keys, like G, don't take much work, while more distantly related keys, like C-# will take more. This will cause you to focus on your weaknesses rather than your strengths. When you can play in all keys at that tempo, move the metronome up a notch and go 'round again.

By setting very specific goals and moving on when they are reached, you won't waste too much time spinning your wheels in one spot.

-Mark


-Mark

Some might argue that any Hanon is too much. I've practiced Hanon in the past and it did help my technique, but now I hardly do any technical work outside of the pieces I learn. You should probably ask yourself why you are doing Hanon. Is there a deficiency in your playing you are trying to address? If so, you might want to take a look at playing some Bach keyboard works that will give the same benefits. Some of the preludes from the Well-Tempered Clavier are particularly good in this regard. I actually found this better for my technique than Hanon, plus I got to learn some great music in the process.

About the only time I do technical work these days is to address a problem area in my playing. You might want to consider adopting a similar philosophy. Learning real music is much more fun.

Hi,

I wasn't introduced to Hanon until I was about 18, which was 13 years too late in my opinion. I think the Hanon exercises were the most beneficial technical exercises I ever did.

I think, to agree with a previous reply, it's all about WHY you are practising Hanon in the first place. I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to open the book at exercise one and then just work your way through - you'll eventually get really bored and not want to work on it again.

I remember when I was working on a Beethoven sonata (I forget which), I was having trouble with a particular couple of bars...and the best thing for me was to go back to Hanon and find the most corresponding exercise and do that one. Remember, at the end of the day, your goal isn't to play Hanon beautifully in every key -it is to play your Beethoven beautifully. If Hanon can help, great.

Hope that helps
Hilary

Thank you for your responses.

I think I like to do the Hanon exercises because I don't have to "think" about what I am doing.

That probably doesn't sound correct...I like the fact that it's straight forward and with all the different rhythms for each exercise, I just go thru one a day as a warm up.

My first teacher introduced my to it to help me improve my finger agility. Being an adult beginner my fingers just didn't want to try any new moves and I especially found that the exercises for the 4th & 5th fingers beneficial.

Hilaryemma, you have pointed out the most important question and that is "WHY you are practising Hanon in the first place"

Before, I was practising it for the above reasons but now I see what you mean...the only problem is that I don't think I have enough experience to figure out which corresponding Hanon would be helpful to me at any given time.

Do you have some suggestions on how to go about doing this?

In the meantime I'll probably continue to go thru it one exercise at a time (I've just started doing them in the C+ scale and I'm on exercise 10) and I don't find them boring yet.

I think once I start adding the black keys it will become more challenging, I'm also working on developing good tone.

Hi,

I just wanted to say that I'm not a beginner but I've recently gone back to Hanon for a new and annoying reason. I'm getting older (ouch) and I find that I have to warm up everything more than I used to. I used to be able to fall out of bed at 6.30 and be singing the Queen of the Night at 8.00 am at an elementary school. Now I need that much time to find my glasses :-) Hanon helps me get my ancient synapses firing. I think there's something to what you said about not having to "think" about what you're doing. Sometimes, particularly when sight-reading, you don't have time to stop and think about it, you just need your fingers to go there and do it. I find that starting out with "no brainer" finger warm-ups helps me do that.

Life gets more hilarious with each birthday!

Hi,

In terms of "which" Hanon exercise to choose, it's about figuring out what technique you need to work on. So, for example, if you're having trouble with trills, find a Hanon that works your first and second fingers. I'm sorry I can't pick out individual exercises for you, but if you look through the book, you'll probably find that there is one that will help with that.

Good luck!

Hilary

Hi all,
I'm also using Hanon to practice my finger technique. But besides finger agility that Hanon helps, can I improve my wrists by doing Hanon exerciese?
Cuz when i play Hanon exercises, i notice most of the time, my fingers are doing the work. I make sure i really raise each finger before placing finger on key.
But to improve wrist supplement...do Hanon exercises help? what other books should i look into?

I do try rotating my wrists when i play these exercises...sometimes it is hard though.

Why? That sounds like a good way to injure yourself.

cziffra I just wanted to thank you for including that link to pianophiles.I will be starting my first piano lesson in a few days and while I've learned a lot in the years that I've been waiting to take them on everything piano and music,that site helped broaden my knowledge even further. Thanks

Also my opinion on Hanon from all that I've read is that they are pretty horrid way to approach technique acquisition. The exercises-->technique concept displayed in hanon seems a bit flimsy and too gimmicky. I've read and heard of those that have used him and had wondrous results but only when they've described using him in a certain fashion and with much inventiveness on their part which I see as the reason they succeeded; in spite of the exercises!

Should I concentrate in Hanon or Bach Invention?

Which one does really help, especially for intermediate level?

My problem is in coordinating LH, RH on something like Nocturne Op 9 2(Chopin), Easy Winners(Scott Joplin) etc. `

Absolutely concentrate on the Bach Invention and ignore Hanon all together. You'll acquire the same technique and a world of other good stuff at the same time. Be sure to work with a teacher though who can guide you with Bach.

alot of Hanon is derivitive of Bach inventions anyway. Work on repertoir, not useless and potentially harmful "exercises" that are based on outdated and inaccurate assumptions about the physiology of the human hand

-Paul

That's my site. I'm glad you enjoyed the material.
I will be adding a lot to it as I have the time. Thanks again for the compliment.

I had sit in my daugher class for 3 years and able to understand notes, and scales - and actually start to play some good piece slowly for the last year or so. Due to time constraint, can I continue to play without having a teacher right now as long as I understand the music and listen to it prior using software like Scorch etc.) I have gone thru many books including CC Chang.

I know a teacher can correct your playing but just wondering if someone has been doing it by themselves without taking a lesson. Any advise?

the best teachers will teach you how to learn on your own.. The best teachers will help bring out the musicality that maybe you don't hear, or aren't hearing yet. Yes, you can progress on your own if you are already feeling/hearing the music in your head, and can remain disciplined enough to stay focused on your study/practice every day.. Perhaps you could get a teacher on a once a month basis, just to keep all the musicality in check? It's best not to go unchecked for too long I think.

-Paul

Paul,

See a teacher once a month is a good idea I think so. Any advise on what to look for in this type of teacher, questions to ask to qualify him/her, teaching style etc?

Not sure really, make an appointment with a few, tell him/her your goals, your timeline, and see which one "feels" like the best fit.. some won't go for a once a month setup, some will.

I am new here and was reading everyone's posts about the Hanon exercises. I really agree with many of them, especially with the person who said to ask yourself why you are playing them. I do want to point one thing out, however. I am 22 and have had carpal tunnel syndrome in both wrists and elbows for over 2 years now. It is under control, and I have never had to have surgery for it, but I do have to be careful in my music selection. No big Rachmaninoff for me. Hanon will set it off like nothing else. There is another book of exercises though that my teacher used with me in college. They are by Ernst von Dohnanyi. These are great for finger coordination and learning to play with relaxed hands and arms. I just wanted to give you another option. Enjoy!

Hanon is good for a start. You work on reflex, dicipline and even touch if u want to.
Doing in different keys is a good idea, though I might recommend Pischna if that's your purpose. Check out the book. Do not get the simplified version which is called 'Little Pischna'.
But I'm not using much Hanon nowadays. I'm using more of Beyer and Schmitt for lower grade students. I find that Beyer works on the touch besides the reflexes which is just as equally important, and should not be neglected.

Hanon is a waste of your time and potentially dangerous because the whole purpose of it is to (naively) give every finger equal strength and dexterity, which in these modern times, we know is physiologically impossible. Don't kid yourself. You can work on reflex, discipline and touch learning actual repertoir, why waste your time on exercises that are intended to try to make your hands work in ways that are physically impossible and dangerous to try? It's archaic and should be banned!

I don't understand the pre-occupation so many people have with "exercises" - you can gain all the dexterity, focus, discipline, touch, technique etc. from learning real pieces of music as you can from any exercises. There must be alot of bad teachers out there. Isn't the point of this all to be able to play music? You're right, technique should not be neglected, but it can be acquired in more meaningful ways. I completely agree with everything cziffra has said.

just my humble opinion. Have a look Here for more thoughts on this.



-Paul

Quoted :...I find that Beyer works on the touch besides the reflexes which is just as equally important, and should not be neglected....

When I said not to be neglected... I mean the 'touch', not the technic.
And as I've said... Hanon is good for a START. It works on mechnism, alone, and that's what u need for the beginner or people with sticky fingers problem.
And you have to understand the purpose of the book to fully benefit from its advantages. Hanon is not a book to work on balance, touch or musical depths and styles. Why use Hanon on touch related or balance problem when u have Beyer, Bertini and so on.
But do not be eager to judge that it's no good, simply because it gives all fingers equal strength... which is essential in the future when you work towards creating a balanced or desired tone. The fingers, must be all equally strong in the first place, to be able to bring out hidden melodies, counter melodies, inner melodies and so on at different depths of execution. If your fingers are weak, or disproportionately related, I don't think your music will speak very well.
AND, sometimes, relying on pure mechanism alone is very important when you play hell fast passages. Imagine having weak, uneven touches along the way. Wodldn't that be a big obstacle?
But frankly speaking, I don't like Hanon nowadays( as I've mentioned). I find Schmitt better.
And I hate Cernzy. There're so many series to that, and I'll rather just use the Burgmuller or Stephen Heller studies.

Hanon (or anything else for that matter) does not give your fingers equal strength. It's impossible to give the 4 and 5 fingers the same strength as the 1 and 2 fingers.

Now, it's possible to boost their strength somewhat because Hanon does exercise them. But so would any musical piece that includes notes for the 4 and 5 fingers. I would much rather practice technique with real music than with exercises in the short period of time I left in my life.

i agree. Bach's inventions or WTC pieces are much better for technique training than pure exercises and yet have tremendous musical value. you can even play one invention forever and yet never exhaust its benefit...

if you would give yourself a year playing only inventions, something amazing would happen after that, i am sure.

Even more reason to develop it with actual repertoir, something that can be musical.


I think it's especially dangerous for a beginner, why start somebody off, somebody who doesn't know any better, in such a bad direction learning a flawed mechanism that they can't apply to anything musical?

Then why bother with it at all? Why work on stuff that has absolutely no place in repertoir? What exactly are these advantages you speak of?

That's exactly the problem. It claims to give all fingers equal strength. That is the core premise of this method which is 130 years old. Fortunately, science has progressed in the past 130 years, and we now know that what Hanon proposed, the very core of his method, is physically impossible to achieve. As the end goal of his method is physically impossible to achieve, and attempts to achieve it could only lead to injury while failing to develop anything of use musically, why the hell would you bother with it? The method is flawed, Period. IF you were to discard everything he insists on regarding how to execute these techniques, and simply used the written notes as exercises using appropriate technique, then you could derive a benefit with regards to coordination. But you can learn coordination with actual repertoir, so again, why bother?

This is quite simply not true. It does sound very logical and it's easy for me to understand how somebody would come to this conclusion. But balanced tone does not originate in the fingers, or the hands for that matter. It comes from your core, the energy being transmitted through your arm weight and out your finger tips which are merely acting as targets. Hanon completely disregards all of the body, the most important physical parts of the piano playing mechanism as if there should be absolutely no motion in anything but your fingers alone. This is just rediculous.

My fingers are disproportionately related, so are yours and there is nothing you or I can do to change that unless somehow we grow a new tendon in our hands to seperate our 4th and 5th fingers. Oh and lets not forget the fact that our thumbs are a shaped considerably different and opposing the rest of our digits. But lets just ignore nature and try to pretend they can all function the same. Your music will speak volumes if you go with nature rather than against nature in your playing.

My friend you are absolutely correct when you say that fast passages require a pure mechanism. But it has to be the right mechanism for the passage. If I have a blazing fast set quintuplets which cascades downward over 6 octaves (as an example, the piece I am currently working on has such a passage) and I try to play that with "hanon technique" using my fingers alone, completely disregarding the rest of my body, it's going to sound like absolute garbage and will probably hurt like hell. The mechanism should involve a single motion where the force comes from your core, the energy transfering into your shoulders and arms, ultimately arriving at your writst, where they ever so slightly rotate to "roll" the fingers (which are merely targets) into and across the keys through the passage as my arms carry that force laterally across the keyboard by way of energy generated in my core.

Trying to execute such a passage by "rasing each finger high" and trying to generate the force needed within your hand and fingers alone, simply won't work and will likely lead to injury.



-Paul

I completely agree.

I don't know if this helps or not, but when i practice hanons i play it normal, stacco, legato, left hand louder, then right hand louder. I find it helps a lot, and gives it a little more flavor so they aren't so boring!