Hello all,

A piano teacher friend called me last night and asked me if I thought Beethoven's full name was Ludwig Von Beethoven or Ludwig Van Beethoven. She had done some checking in her literature and found most of the references said "Van", except for a very old book.

She went to the local music teacher's association meeting yesterday and asked about it, and there was a general "of course it's Von" sentiment.

I thought someone here might have a little insight into this question.

They both mean "from"; van is Dutch, and von is German. It's not capitalized in either case.

Steven

One suggests royalty ("von), and that was something according to one biography I read, that Beethoven wanted to portray. His given name, however was van, which suggested a more common heritage.

It is definitely "van"

Beethoven's paternal line was from the "Low" countries, the Dutch speaking area of what is now Belgium. In Germany, Beethoven's family lived in Bonn, which is on the Rhein, about 45 miles as the crow flies, from Belgium (and it's pretty flat there, so most people traveling overland wouldn't travel much further), and about 120 miles from Mechelen in Belgium, where the family came from. Historically, many families moved up and down the Rhein, just as my family did. What caused grandpa Lodewijk v. Beethoven to take a job in Koblenz should be interesting.

Hoven and Hofen are often interchangeable and means port or dock (for shipping). Perhaps one of our Dutch speaking friends can decipher Beet for us. Ofcorse, Beethoven may have some entirely different meaning. Be interesting to find out.

See Beethoven\'s family tree

PS Never insult a Dutchman by calling him "von."

And now we know what the "v" in John v.d. Brook stands for!

Beethoven did not bother to clarify the van and allowed himself to be called von. This meant he was being referred to as Germany nobility and his fellow nobles were chuffed to have a great composer among them. The truth came out in a nasty court case where Beethoven took his nephew from his brother's widow.

So should we use "von" according to Beethoven's own wishes (assuming we can even know such a thing!) He certainly occupies a place of royalty amongst the composers and musicians of history. Or perhaps in his enlightened place beyond the earthly vale, he fully realizes the futility of class distinctions!

Well, in Germany, he's listed as "van Beethoven," and not "von Beethoven.

If that's the answer she got, it's a bit scary.

The scariest thing isn't that they were mistaken, but that they were sure they were right ("of course").

It brings to mind the quip by Mark Twain that used to be in my sig line: "The problem isn't what we don't know; it's what we're sure of that just ain't so."

Steven

BTW, Ryan, I surely hope you're not talking about our local chapter. I've only made one meeting this Fall, but I can't imagine they'd not know all of this!

Come to think of it, they'd say it was Von, but would be pulling her chain! We do have a number of contrarians in our group.

Maybe they were referring to pronunciation more than spelling? Isn't it pronounced "vahn" even though it is spelled van?

That's a pretty good point. "Van", as in the American English pronunciation of the vehicle, is an anglicized pronunciation of both "van" and "von", and would likely be thought to be incorrect.

Mostly, it's pronounced: fon as in on[/b] with an f[/b] in front of it.