Wow! After 2 years of battling with the parents and their 2 students I finally straight out asked the parents why they bring their girls to piano lessons if they are not ever going to practice. The response I got was not what I expected!
Dad says: "We don't expect them to play at home if they don't want to. They love coming to see you every week and we feel that paying you to work with them once a week is making enough progress."
Sheesh!! I figured that's what I was doing, but I never in a million years would have expected to hear it!

Holy cow!

So, will you continue to teach them? I'm amazed that the parents were so honest!

Oy veh! :rolleyes:

Wow, what will you do? I think if that happened to me, I'd do my very best to give the kids songs that they would love to play so much that they end up practicing. If that still didn't work, I don't know if I'd continue teaching them. On one hand, it would be good to at least give them an appreciation for piano, but on the other hand, would they be learning anything, and would I feel guilty taking their money just the same?

Let us know what you decide to do!

If you can possibly find a way to encourage ANY evidence of work at home that you may discern in their playing at their lesson, you might be able to change their behavior in this. I'd try to do it as gently as you can, and with an expressed positive attitude. Good luck.

I will keep teaching them, they have made progress in the past 2 years. Not much, but more than they started with. The youngest one (6th grade) has a much easier time catching on and I think she may play from time to time, but the older one (8th grade)...I give up on having any hopes for her. I figure if they love coming and they like it enough to still come then I will continue to do my best. I refuse to feel guilty about it. I am doing my part, especially now that I know the parents don't care!!
They do work for the recitals.
Definitely not my dream students, but as long as they are pleasant and continue to come I will teach them. Now, if they were nasty girls we wouldn't be having this conversation!

You have lots of patience. Good luck teaching these two kids.

suggest they come over more than once a week! haha!

Do you have other families who would gladly take that spot in your schedule? If so, there is a clear cost to you of continuing to work with these two. You give up the opportunity to work with two students who might care more and have more potential to develop. If you do not have a waiting list, or other evidence of potential demand out there, then there is essentially no cost to continuing with these two as long as you are comfortable with how this family approaches the study of music.

You have already given up on the 8th grader, and if a 6th grader is putting in no practice at present -- and sees the example of the 8th grader before her -- there isn't too much hope for a turnaround there either.

Ebony & Ivory,

Have you thought of holding a monthly one hour group lesson for everyone - required/not optional - for the sole purpose of demonstrating and strategizing practice?

One goal for the class would be bringing your students up to a participatory level in practicing. Another goal is to teach practice skills that work and show progress from the effort.

You could have some of your more accomplished students demonstrate how they go about learning a new piece from scratch. That might be interesting to everyone.

Whether to include parents in at least one of the meetings is your choice. But you could get a little parent education (the role of parents in practicing) in. This concept of teaching practice as a totally separate subject could bring new life to your studio. It's important to spark enthusiasm when it's lagging.

The choices of music go a long way in making it a good outcome. Think about how each piece you ask them to play feels to someone at their level. Is each piece bringing a return to the student?

Practicespot.com is very helpful as a resource for practice. Are you familiar with what it contains. It is a motivating and inspiring website.

At MTA meeting yesterday, our president passed out directions from practice.spot about folding paper, and cutting snips off each time you practice which reduces the size of the paper. The paper had already been folded into rectangular (128)creases, and now the student will cut away ONE rectangle EACH TIME he practices. The smaller the paper gets, the better the piece gets.

Directions appear on the website for this. (There is a bit of secret at first about why they are doing this - give directions to the students one step at a time, but don't tell them why they are doing this, or what the next step will be. It "unfolds" as to the reason you are doing it. Then the student brings in what is left of the original paper.

This produces a visual example of what has been accomplished!

I don't have a link specifically to it, put perhaps someone can post it here, and we could start a topic of "new, effective and motivating practice ideas" where everyone posts their "off the wall" ideas.

I like the idea of "One New Note at a Time" with the melody only or with the chord sequence in steady beats.

Phrase 1: C/CE/CEF/CEFG - - - -
Phrase 2: C/CE/CEF/CEFG - - - - (repetition!)
Phrase 3: C/CE/CEF/CEFG - - - - (repetition!)
Phrase 4: C/CE/CEF/CEFG/CEFG - E -/CEFG - E - C -/CEFG - E - C - E/CEFG - E - C - E - - - -/CEFG - E - C - E -/ CEFG - E - C - E - D - - - -

This can be done with the letter names being switch for finger numbers. Typed into a document line by line of practice phrases, allowing hyphens for notes being held, it shows analysis and form and pattern.

This is simplistic demonstration of concept, but you get the reason why you would want to do this, through the results you receive, comprehension and easy memorization through repetition. You would want to do this selectively as a practice tool.

So, I'm going to take part of this post and set it apart in a new topic.

Betty

I would teach them as much about music as you can. A person doesn't have to be able to play an instrument or play it well in order to learn a lot about music in general. Teach theory, listen to music and talk about it - history, style, rhythm, etc, teach ear-training and sight-singing. Have a short activity or two each lesson involving these things. I think it really neat to listen to music on cd and have the scores and try to follow along in the score. Such students could become adults who can read music in a choir, appreciate and understand more about the music they listen to, and maybe a positive musical influence in their kid's life.

Try also composing and improvising.

I talked to a teacher a month or so ago whose taught 30 years about getting kids to practice and she said a similar thing - that many parents as long as the kids are having fun, they don't care how much or how little is practiced.

I too have had students like this. Mom says they were just too busy to practice, but the student just loved coming to see me and would not quit.

So I really began to focus on theory, flash cards, note reading, writing music and lots of other concepts that may be benefitial to the student in the future or in band.

also I let him pick out their recital piece at the first of the semester. it was always really challenging, but I knew that he would feel great when he accomplished it. It usually did take us the entire semester to complete a full piece to performance standards.


Sorry. I really do know how you feel.........good luck


I know that this is bad, but you almost have to look at it if the parents are willing to "trhow away" the money, you just do your best.

The modern world is not what we would like it to be.

The kids love coming to see you! See if you can encourage them to practice FOR you- afterall, with some encouragement and practice they could end up loving music/piano- and that should be the goal: a love for it! They love you- you have the opportunity to instill the love of music/piano...run with it and love them back!!!

But keep in mind- when they don't love you- their parents won't bring them for lessons anymore. Take the opportunity to encourage them while you have the opportunity.

In this day and age, you might be one of the few people in their entire childhood that they really love- and that can impact them for the rest of their life. I'm not saying they are your responsibility- they're not. But you can run with the opportunity, if you are up to it. If it's draining, then you have to do what's best for you.

At least the fella was honest. That's rare.

Yup! I do what I can and I try to get them to love it as much as I do. We do have a good time and I'm sure that's why they keep coming. I feel BETTER now knowing that I'm not letting anyone down. I was feeling MORE guilty before because I felt like I wasn't doing my job. Now that I know they are doing next to nothing at home, I can relax (and quit nagging on them) and teach-teach-teach when they're with me.
I have tried all the motivational tools that I have ever heard of, they just aren't going to do it at home, they only last a week (maybe 2 if I'm lucky). The dad put their piano in their bedroom, I told him to please find a place where the whole family could hear/enjoy/encourage the girls, but nope. I sure don't get the reasoning, but I'll just keep on swimming and hoping they come along for the ride.

The same exact thing happened to me, and I too was in shock. I tried every trick in the book to encourage the three siblings to practice, including performing for peers monthly. The kids weren't embarrassed at all. In fact, their nonchalant attitude negatively affected my other students.

The only time they would practice at all was about two weeks before a big recital, when mom would force them to play a song twice a day.

After three years, the situation became such a drag on me that I did drop them. It was very difficult because I really did enjoy the time with them, and yes, they did make progress. But my relief was so liberating!

This happened about two years ago, and I now do a much better job of explaining my expectations to prospective parents. I want my students to have skills for a lifetime. This is what motivates me and keeps me psychologically well and able to continue teaching, something I love.

It sounds like you've worked this out and will continue to teach them. With everything in the open, it will certainly be easier to make it work. Good luck!

ClaraSchumann said: "I want my students to have skills for a lifetime."

I agree with that thought very much. I think we can also say it this way....

"I want my student to WORK to have skills for a lifetime." And, also...

"I want my student to WORK WITH ME to have skills for a lifetime."

A little more required than just attending, soaking up a lesson, and putting no other time into practice.

Betty

Betty, I really like your variations on the skills for a lifetime theme. I'd like to include these thoughts in next year's studio policy.

The mom in my situation believed her kids would become good pianists with only the weekly lesson, despite my pleas to the contrary. She said, "This is enough for me. When they're older, they'll learn on their own." But I could see the writing on the walls. And I often hear from bitter adults: "I took piano for six years and can't play a thing." To have a student say this about me is just about my worst fear.


I think in the future, I might try offering to teach the student music history/appreciation and not call it piano lessons. Since this is what they get, I'd feel good about the full disclosure, and hopefully there'd be less room for inevitable disillusionment from the student and parent.

Has anyone out there tried this?

ClaraSchumann,

Yes, there is a big difference in "applied" piano lessons where you expect the student to get results and become self-actualized at the piano.

Then there are things that lead to discovery, information, motivation, all kinds of relevant things: SIG's of how to practice, how to memorize, performance etiquette and anxiety. We could find to many things to teach that are part of piano study, but not applied at the piano necessarily. It can be done with "How-To's" or through creativeness. Everyone wants fun and games these day, so let's give them fun and games, too.

I find it hard to imagine that students in piano lessons do not connect with the music and don't get the passion like we had and still have.

We have to remember that we are working with what they have to bring to the lessons, and prehaps the maturity and work ethics are lacking.

Screening carefully is a possiblity. Or, having a short term ( months) introductory lesson session to find out how interested, willing, and committed they might really be. We'll help they acquire music skills to add to their natural abilities. With their permission.

Yes, please do use the development of your quote. I think I will use it in mine too. I am amazed what I learn here on PWF! If I weren't posting regularly, these "tidbits" might not surface from my brain.

Let's put our worst fears to sleep!

Betty

If you ever have a big problem with them you could do what a teacher I know did. She had an awful student who loved to come to lessons but didn't practice and was a pain in the bum when she was in lessons.Her parents had a similar attitude to the ones you describe. So the teacher continually bumped up the cost of lessons in the hopes that the parents would stop sending her... but nope, she kept on coming til the family moved!

Good luck though, seriously:)

hee-hee that has crossed my mind...;-)

Hm. Non-practicers! I thought all my students fell into this category!

The main thing is to consult your feelings. Do you want to keep teaching them, or will they learn more from you dropping them?

I had a student who didn't practice for many years. They were shocked when I let him go and thought he'd never take lessons again! But he found another teacher. And after about four years, we had a chance meeting/reconciliation of hard feelings.

I think you should feel great that the students love coming to see you.

The students are really not all that unusual. Teachers of beautiful or enjoyable things periodically get students who simply love the lessons and do little outside the lessons--and this goes for teachers of painting, golf, sculpture, basketball, music, creative writing, bowling, drawing, chess, tennis, swimming, knitting, and more.

I am red-faced to admit it, but I do take lessons in one of the above areas (not music--and I refuse to say which one!) simply because I enjoy the lessons so darn much. I never practice the activity outside the lessons, and my progress has been pretty slow, but I could care less, because I just have a barrel of fun each lesson! My teacher has not complained, and I pay in cash.

I have solved the problem of my youngest not practising by re-starting piano.

I tell him (not completely truthfully) he can't use the piano when I want to play and I gently pretend to rush him off when he's on it.

That, plus seeing me practise at every spare moment, has made the piano a scarce and coveted resource.

He's starting to growl at me when I approach and he's practising.

...'course it could just be that he hates the sound of my practice sessions.

I was thinking the same thing. A lesson every day would be much greater progress than working on their own. It would be like Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day."

Life is too short for all this useless worrying, just string them along, like most teachers do, and get as much money as you can.

I just never got the hang of it(guitar) but when the teacher heard me playing in the waiting room..(great)said how come you can't play the lesson?
I told "reading it on paper never made sense,timing rythmn..so I play by ear..heck I was paying for the lessons too..so I quit..LOL
I play piano by ear too don't sweat it.. your keeping there incentive alive..they'll catch on
things do sink in..

This coming from a supposed teacher, sounds like you're speaking of your personal ethics (or lack thereof). Kindly do not group "most" teachers in with yourself in this respect. I seriously doubt, however, that you are a teacher. If you are, then please do everyone a favor and find another vocation. More than likely, however, you are simply someone who had the misfortune of having a bad teacher, and then decided to come on here to give all teachers a bad rep. I'm sorry for your experiences in such case, but they are not everyone's experiences.

Moridiene,


I think that rintincop was being facetious.

A fellow piano teacher of mine feels (and I respect his opinion) that the student just going to the lesson is a positive event. Students in larger cities have such competition for their time. On the other hand, my teacher growing up told me, "Find what you love doing and do it well" which inspired me probably to be the player I am today. Who knows?