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#963175 - 07/06/08 01:59 AM 8va question
koiloco Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 622
Loc: California
when 8va is written over the treble clef, does it mean play both treble and bass clefs an octave higher or just the treble clef ?

Coming from violin, i never deal with 2 clefs and often get confused.

Thx ahead.

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#963176 - 07/06/08 02:05 AM Re: 8va question
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5590
Loc: Orange County, CA
Just treble.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#963177 - 07/06/08 02:12 AM Re: 8va question
koiloco Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 622
Loc: California
thx so much.

so when it's both , it will say

"8va both" or something similar , correct?

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#963178 - 07/06/08 03:29 AM Re: 8va question
pianobuff Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 1580
Loc: Pacific Northwest
 Quote:
Originally posted by koiloco:
thx so much.

so when it's both , it will say

"8va both" or something similar , correct? [/b]
If both hands play an octave higher a lot of times the left hand notes will be written an octave higher... in the treble clef, if need be, along with RH notes written in treble where they are to be played.
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#963179 - 07/06/08 10:59 AM Re: 8va question
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7417
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
koiloco - you didn't ask, but you'll frequently find 8va written under notes in the LH, and that means go down an octave.

15va means up or down 15 tones, which is, of course, two octaves.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#963180 - 07/06/08 11:03 AM Re: 8va question
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11847
Loc: Canada
A possible question: Logic would suggest that you would rarely have an 8va above the bass for going up an octave, since such notes would fit more easily into the treble clef, and vice versa. So generally the 8va would be to raise notes in the treble with the sign placed above the staff, and lower notes in the bass with the sign below the staff. Would this seem to be correct? (I never thought about this before or took conscious note.)

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#963181 - 07/06/08 11:28 AM Re: 8va question
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12215
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Keystring: yes, which is essentially what pianobuff & John wrote. \:D
_________________________
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Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#963182 - 07/06/08 11:45 AM Re: 8va question
Knabe26 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 221
Loc: Northern California
Koiloco, some method books in early levels do use "both hands" after the 8va instead of changing the other clef.
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#963183 - 07/06/08 12:17 PM Re: 8va question
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11847
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Morodiene:
Keystring: yes, which is essentially what pianobuff & John wrote. \:D [/b]
Having drawn some weird conclusions in my past life and then basing myself on them, I thought I'd double check anyway. \:D Thx

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#963184 - 07/06/08 12:55 PM Re: 8va question
ddh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 458
Loc: Abitibi
 Quote:
Originally posted by John v.d.Brook:
koiloco - you didn't ask, but you'll frequently find 8va written under notes in the LH, and that means go down an octave.

15va means up or down 15 tones, which is, of course, two octaves. [/b]
More often, though, 8vb[/b] (ottava bassa) will be used to go down an octave.

Cheers
_________________________
Daniel (Pramberger JP 208B)


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#963185 - 07/06/08 05:26 PM Re: 8va question
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7417
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
My vision is so poor, I've never noticed that the va was a vb! Live and learn!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#963186 - 07/08/08 03:55 PM Re: 8va question
tickler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Chicagoland
I've seen plenty of sheet music that uses 8va (or 15va) to go down 1 (or 2) octaves in the left hand. This includes music published recently and going all the way back to the 1950s, and from major publishers.

I can't recall seeing a 8vb (or 15vb), but it's certainly possible I missed an occasional one. My eyesight's just fine \:\)


Mary
_________________________
Music should strike fire from the heart of man, and bring tears from the eyes of woman. -- Beethoven
1911 Steinway A-II (2007 Rebuild)

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#963187 - 07/08/08 04:03 PM Re: 8va question
eromlignod Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 379
Loc: Kansas City
8va is just short for "ottava". If it's two octaves, it's written 15ma, for "quindicessima". The bass version of ottava is sometimes written 8vb, but I've seen it both ways.

Don
Kansas City

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#963188 - 07/09/08 09:44 AM Re: 8va question
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7417
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Thanks for the info . . . I thought maybe my vision was in serious decline. I went back and checked various manuscripts and what I discovered is that new music, set using computer programs, tend to use the 8vb notation, and the older engraved versions used the 8va.

I had been taught, and had taught, what eromlignod stated, that 8va was shorthand for ottava, meaning 8 notes/tones.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#963189 - 07/09/08 11:20 AM Re: 8va question
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3250
Loc: Virginia, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by John v.d.Brook:


I had been taught, and had taught, what eromlignod stated, that 8va was shorthand for ottava, meaning 8 notes/tones. [/b]
I've discussed this subject often with brass players, for whom it is more common to go an octave down than up.

8vb is often seen, but the purists insist on 8va b as more correct, for ottava basso. If no b, then up is assumed.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#963190 - 07/09/08 11:41 AM Re: 8va question
eromlignod Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 379
Loc: Kansas City
I have always thought that the 8vb notation for ottava bassa was sort of silly, since the notation itself is located above or below the staff, indicating in which direction the octave should be played. I have even seen the two-octave bass version written "15mb" for "quindicesima bassa".

Most music indicates the duration of the ottava with a dashed line, but some old music terminates the octave passage with "loco" instead.

Now, has anyone ever seen "c.8va" (coll'ottava) for the piano? This one is really rare!

Don
Kansas City

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#963191 - 07/11/08 05:25 PM Re: 8va question
koiloco Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 622
Loc: California
You guys rock ! Thx all again.

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