Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#965370 - 10/01/04 03:15 AM Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Stahlbrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Sweden
I would like to share two recordings which I have published at the following URL:
http://www.pianosociety.com/index.php?id=37

Hope you like them even though no.3 is a bit faster and more brutal than most recordings. My view is that no.3 is played too slow by most pianists and if you look at the metronome indication, it is 8:th=100 in beat=2/4.

Top
Piano & Music Acc. / Sheet Music


Sheet Music Plus Homepage
#965371 - 10/01/04 03:50 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
cziffra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 133
 Quote:
Originally posted by Stahlbrand:
I would like to share two recordings which I have published at the following URL:
http://www.pianosociety.com/index.php?id=37

Hope you like them even though no.3 is a bit faster and more brutal than most recordings. My view is that no.3 is played too slow by most pianists and if you look at the metronome indication, it is 8:th=100 in beat=2/4. [/b]
I personally can't stand the Op. 10 No. 3 etude. I suggest you not take the metronome markings too seriously, though. They weren't necessarily put there by Chopin.
_________________________
http://musicreference.net

Top
#965372 - 10/01/04 04:31 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Stahlbrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Sweden
 Quote:
Originally posted by cziffra:
I personally can't stand the Op. 10 No. 3 etude. I suggest you not take the metronome markings too seriously, though. They weren't necessarily put there by Chopin. [/b]
Chopin metronome marked all his pieces up to op.27 where he changed his view to (according to some biographes) as he did not want his interpreters to be so hard stuck to a tempo. In his Etudes, he was very careful about the use of metronome and it might suprise you to learn that Chopin never let the metronome escape his piano.
I made a short research on the area of interpretation of Chopin's music which I posted at:
http://www.chopinforum.com/interpretation.html

In all of version I know, the tempo is marked 8:th=100 while there is some other etude are wrong metronome marks. One example of this is the op.10/6 which is often marked b.=60 while it should be b.=69 which actually makes a big difference.
One early edition (1833) of op.10 no.3 is located here:
http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/chopin/images/047/chopin047-043q.jpg

Still, you are of course allowed to not like my interpretation ;\)

Top
#965373 - 10/01/04 08:25 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
I liked them!

You are an excellent pianist!

Mark
_________________________
Visit us at:
The Piano World Practice Club

Top
#965374 - 10/01/04 12:25 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Stahlbrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Sweden
Oh thank you very much!

And to add something about the no.3, I play this without pedal but for where it is marked and that is only for one bar. This makes this etude, which is considered as one of the more easy on the the set of op.10, a real challange!
I play it as the exercise of legato it is, and the use of sutstain pedal will ruin the exercise but performing is a something else so I understand that pedal makes it sound better.

Top
#965375 - 10/02/04 08:28 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Googlism Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 1072
Loc: Toronto
I didn't like the Etude No.3 simply because there wasn't a lot of legato. I don't think the pedal markings should tell you where to play with the pedal - different editions have different sections for the pedal. I think you should only use the pedal in areas that cannot be played with legato but must have a resonating sound.

The op.1 and op.11 I liked very much. Are these three the only etudes that you have learnt so far?
_________________________
Old videos from prior piano competitions:
http://www.youtube.com/user/kilace

____________________

"... It is a skill you go on learning all your life: the more you write, the more you learn."

Harry Freedman on the craft of composing

Top
#965376 - 10/03/04 04:12 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 3192
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
I haven't as yet been able to listen to your recordings, Stahlbrand, but I think the opening 20 measures of Op10 #3 are just beautifully lyrical. Lyricism isn't generally what I think of when I hear the term "Etude" but this section really stands out, at least to me. While the rest of that piece (and the remaining 27 or so etudes) are demonstratively way over my head, I enjoy playing that opening section.

I've wondered if anyone has every tried to put words to that portion of the piece, as it does have a very "song-like" quality about it.

Bob

Top
#965377 - 10/03/04 09:07 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
fnork Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1709
Loc: Helsinki, finland
Well played, Stahlbrand! I liked the first op 1 etude, how long have you been playing it?

I noticed that you are from Sweden, just as me. Where do you live?
_________________________
http://www.martinmalmgren.com/

Top
#965378 - 10/04/04 03:08 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Stahlbrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Sweden
Thanks for the responses.
I am from Sweden indeed and a bit north of Gothenburg. I have been studying the first etude for about a year and it took my about 6-8 months to get it into correct speed. There are some mistakes in the recording but it is almost impossible to perfect which even Horowitz onces stated (and that is why he never recorded it). So fnork, where are you from?

I agree with Googlism that the pedal indications vary a lot between different editions. Cortot really did make a lot of them in his study guide while the Urtext edition only mark it in one passage.
My belief is that etude no.3 should be played unpedaled during legato practise but be performed with delicious use of pedal at a performance. Like for example as Mr. Pollini did.

And I know Etude 1, 2, 3 by heart and have played 4, 5, 6 and 12 and know them rather good.
No.11 is not by me at the site I made a link to but by a person I know. I am planning to learn them all and a dear friend of mine wrote complete study guides for me which I put up at:
http://chopinforum.com/etudes.html
If you plan to learn any of these, take some time to check this link out. There are downloadable (for free of course) PDF's to each of them.

Top
#965379 - 10/04/04 10:21 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
fnork Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1709
Loc: Helsinki, finland
 Quote:
Originally posted by Stahlbrand:
Thanks for the responses.
I am from Sweden indeed and a bit north of Gothenburg. [/b]
Wow, really? Well, guess what, I live in central gothenburg, around Korsvgen \:\) So, are you studying somewhere in Gothenburg or nearby? Right now, I'm studying at Hvitfeldtska gymnasiet..

 Quote:
I have been studying the first etude for about a year and it took my about 6-8 months to get it into correct speed. There are some mistakes in the recording but it is almost impossible to perfect which even Horowitz onces stated (and that is why he never recorded it).
I don't think it's impossible to play it perfect, and some other etudes seem far more difficult to me than this one. Try to play op 10 no 4 in the right tempo for instance... Seems more difficult to me, but I haven't studied that one so much. I've heard some pianists play it with the right metronome marking, not totally without errors but very well played still. I heard Richter play it on CD recently though, and he plays it really slowly... comparing to the other versions.

I've been practicing this etude for over a year, and I can play it in a good tempo now, but wouldn't manage to do that some months ago. Perhaps I'll record my version someday too, and put it up here \:\)
_________________________
http://www.martinmalmgren.com/

Top
#965380 - 10/04/04 09:10 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Allazart Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 389
I am currently working on op 10 no 1 and enjoyed listening to your recording. Just picked it up a few days ago so I have quite a way to go.

By the way, what kind of piano were you playing on? It has a very bell-like upper register.

Top
#965381 - 10/05/04 12:57 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
iamcanadian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1893
Loc: Canada
I can tell by your recording of Op.10 No.1 that you are a decent pianist, but that Op.10 No.3 is terribly awkward - it sounds like a march. It made me want to quit playing the piano. Forever... \:D

How about a little more Legato and Pedal to help maintain the melodic line. A little rubato wouldn't hurt either.

This etude is capable of making grown men cry, but your recording is literally without emotion.

Sorry to be so harsh, but your interpretation is not something I'd want to listen to more than once.
_________________________
♪♫♪♫

Top
#965382 - 10/05/04 01:56 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Orlando Gibbons Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 848
Loc: CA
...but well done, nonetheless! I enjoyed your Op.10-1.
_________________________
"See?! The Cliffs of Insanity!"

Top
#965383 - 10/05/04 09:50 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Stahlbrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Sweden
 Quote:
Wow, really? Well, guess what, I live in central gothenburg, around Korsvgen \:\) So, are you studying somewhere in Gothenburg or nearby? Right now, I'm studying at Hvitfeldtska gymnasiet..

I don't think it's impossible to play it perfect, and some other etudes seem far more difficult to me than this one. Try to play op 10 no 4 in the right tempo for instance... Seems more difficult to me, but I haven't studied that one so much. I've heard some pianists play it with the right metronome marking, not totally without errors but very well played still. I heard Richter play it on CD recently though, and he plays it really slowly... comparing to the other versions.

I've been practicing this etude for over a year, and I can play it in a good tempo now, but wouldn't manage to do that some months ago. Perhaps I'll record my version someday too, and put it up here \:\) [/QB]
I work in Gotheburg (Mlndalsvgen) with computer security and it was a long time since I was in school as I am currently 33 years old.
I have seen the video of Richter playing op.10/4 and playing in his tempo, the etude is very difficult. He plays with fury and looks almost wild in his eyes.

Top
#965384 - 10/05/04 09:56 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Stahlbrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Sweden
 Quote:
Originally posted by iamcanadian:
I can tell by your recording of Op.10 No.1 that you are a decent pianist, but that Op.10 No.3 is terribly awkward - it sounds like a march. It made me want to quit playing the piano. Forever... \:D

How about a little more Legato and Pedal to help maintain the melodic line. A little rubato wouldn't hurt either.

This etude is capable of making grown men cry, but your recording is literally without emotion.

Sorry to be so harsh, but your interpretation is not something I'd want to listen to more than once. [/b]
Maybe I make a performance recording of it with pedal and lyrics involved but the poor Chopin are very often played with too much of romantism as he lived in that era. Recent, researches ideas and views by for instance J.Kallberg talks of Chopin's music as baroque reincarnated in a romantic style. I like the idea of Chopin played in strict tempo and with sparingly use of rubato (but for the exception of his Mazurkas). LH act as the conductor while RH sings more freely. I cannot stand when for example his Nocturnes are played with a very liberal use of rubato in the LH with uneven tempo within even a single "chord" which I have heard many times. Practise LH to metronome is my advice.
Pollini is my master of his Etudes. He plays them as the exercises they are!

Top
#965385 - 10/06/04 02:24 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
iamcanadian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1893
Loc: Canada
Ok, I will agree with most of what you say, but playing with NO pedal is just wrong.

Pollini's performance is quite good, but he uses Rubato(however subtle) and pedal all the way through.
_________________________
♪♫♪♫

Top
#965386 - 10/08/04 03:34 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Stahlbrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Sweden
Yes he does as any pianist. I repeate, lets use no pedal for practise so that the pedal does not ruin the legato exercise but for performing in public, use pedal and even rubato.

I even practise op.10 no.1 without pedal, just to make sure I hit every key perfect.

Top
#965387 - 10/17/04 03:01 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
rach3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 111
eh im always up for weird interpretations, but i really didnt like how you played 10/3. 10/1 was wonderful though, really enjoyed the actual sound of the piano too

Top
#965388 - 10/19/04 07:04 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Alvin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/19/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Hong Kong
I wonder why there are so much wrong notes in the Etude Op.10 No.3!
and...so little pedal...
Also, the melody sometimes is not smooth, especially at the end of a phrase in the middle of the etude.

Top
#965389 - 10/19/04 11:01 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
cdbob Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Canada
No.1 was awesome very diffucult piece no.3 was also good great job
_________________________
cdbob

Top
#965390 - 10/26/04 07:27 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
DW_mod Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 117
Wow! I can never play his no 1 like that. You must have very big and strong hands.
Hmm... But I didn't really like the third. Ha ha.. \:\) You're right. Your interpretation was too brutal for me. \:\) I prefer the more subtle and 'wet' way of playing. I would have used more discern pedalling. Hmm, but nevertheless BRAVO!!!!
BRAVE!!!
BRAVASSIMO!!! \:\)

Top
#965391 - 10/26/04 07:35 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
DW_mod Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 117
By the Way, what piano are u using for your recording? The op 10, no 1,2,3? I like the tone. Must be a steinway.
But I really like the lower register...reminds me of a Bose.
Deep and powerful. \:\)

Yeah, I don't use the pedal when I'm praticing or rather still at the 'hitting all correct notes' stage. I think it's wise not to indulge in the pedal when you are aiming for no false notes ... it really makes a huge difference in your final presentation... with the pedal of course. \:\)

Top
#965392 - 11/28/04 11:11 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
fnork Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1709
Loc: Helsinki, finland
I also have a recording of op 10 no 1, from a recent concert. Not perfect yet, perhaps I should have played it a bit slower...

Here's the link: www.angelfire.com/music6/pianostuff17
_________________________
http://www.martinmalmgren.com/

Top
#965393 - 12/02/04 08:11 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Stahlbrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Sweden
How can one walk out on a concert and be certain to perfect the op.10 no.1? Just keep the flow and only a very well trained ear will hear your mistakes.
Just make sure you the the top keys perfect together with left hands octaves.
By the way, uploaded a new version of no.3...like everyone expects it to be ;-).

Top
#965394 - 12/02/04 08:24 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
F. Chopin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 386
Loc: England
Aside from the (many) wrong notes in Op.10 No.1, I think you play it quite well. One criticism though, is that I feel you hammer the top note of the arpeggios too hard at times.

I've only heard the "new" recording of Op.10 No.3 and I like it.

Top
#965395 - 12/08/04 01:54 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Stahlbrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Sweden
I do it to cover up of course! ;-)

Top
#965396 - 12/23/04 03:43 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Spin Doctor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 262
Loc: Maryland, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Stahlbrand:
...By the way, uploaded a new version of no.3...like everyone expects it to be ;-). [/b]
I'd like to hear the original version, if you still have it. I think most pianists rely a bit too heavily on the pedal, especially me, so I'd like to get a good idea of how it would sound played (by a good pianist) with no pedal.

Great job, by the way!

-----
_________________________
"Some people's idea of free speech is that they are free to say what they like but if anyone says anything back, that is an outrage."

-- Winston Churchill

Top
#965397 - 01/22/05 02:18 AM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Alvin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/19/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Hong Kong
For this second recording of Op.10 No.3, it is a good work!

Top
#965398 - 01/22/05 01:21 PM Re: Chopin op.10 no.1 & no.3
Awakening Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/04
Posts: 93
Loc: Seattle, WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Stahlbrand:
I would like to share two recordings which I have published at the following URL:
http://www.pianosociety.com/index.php?id=37

Hope you like them even though no.3 is a bit faster and more brutal than most recordings. My view is that no.3 is played too slow by most pianists and if you look at the metronome indication, it is 8:th=100 in beat=2/4. [/b]
Beautiful recordings. I think that the Opus 10/3 speed is just right this time around (didn't hear the first recording). I also don't understand how anyone could not like this Etude, it's one of my favorites. Opus 10/1 sounds great--very smooth, very clear. I'm not used to hearing the high note with so much emphasis, though. Either way, I liked it. The Opus 10/2 recording is nice, but a little too slow, I'd say. Then again, my standards are probably too high--I know that this piece is incredibly difficult to play, and I'm used to hearing recordings from people like Yundi Li and such.

Great work, tell us when you have the rest of the etudes recorded.

Top

What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
130 registered (36251, a-z0-9, accordeur, 45 invisible), 1554 Guests and 14 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75579 Members
42 Forums
156270 Topics
2294991 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Need progression lesson
by Maarkr
53 minutes 3 seconds ago
What's "Hrode-lgiaque"?
by Goomer Piles
Today at 09:01 PM
Opinions on Roland F130R
by Laerai
Today at 08:00 PM
M-Audio Oxygen 88 vs. StudioLogic Numa Compact
by snapdragon
Today at 07:02 PM
Sheet Music Retainers
by MargaretUK
Today at 05:20 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission