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#972886 - 11/30/06 03:12 PM Chopin Nocturne Opus 9 No. 2
Schubertian Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 937
Loc: Dallas, TX, US
I am working on this nocturne using the Lemoine edition (1991) which is a well-edited urtext. This edition shows pedal markings from measure 1 through measure 12 - roughly two down-pedals per bar - then no medal indications at all from measurew 13 through 24 - then pedal indications again.

Do other urtext editions show this? I have tried playing it this way and it just sounds wierd and illogical.
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#972887 - 11/30/06 03:28 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Opus 9 No. 2
Euan Morrison Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 1588
Loc: Edinburgh
Schubertian,

The edition I have (done by Yamaha) has pedal markings to measure 5. Then after that it just says 'con Ped.', and nothing more for the rest of the score.

I assume you just need to pedal those measures in between like the ones before it. Maybe by omitting them, it give the performer a bit of space to interpret it as they wish?

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#972888 - 11/30/06 07:22 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Opus 9 No. 2
Sarah M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 293
Loc: California
I would just pedal it in whatever way sounds best to you. It's like, let your ears tell you what's right.

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#972889 - 11/30/06 08:41 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Opus 9 No. 2
dannylux Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 1829
Loc: Connecticut
Schubertian,

You're right, there's no way you can play measures 13-24 without pedal.

My Paderewski edition says "(simile)" at measure 13, meaning to pedal as you did in the beginning 12 measures.

For the first 3 measures, Paderewski has 4 pedal changes in each measure, then 3 pedal changes in the next 3 measures.

So there's a pedal at every change in harmony.

Check it out here:

Nocturne 9/2

Notice the "simile" at measure 13.

Mel
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#972890 - 12/01/06 12:32 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Opus 9 No. 2
Haizel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 102
Loc: NewYork
Hi Schubertian,

Good luck to you playing this lovely and expressive Nocturne; I wanted to play this piece ever since I heard Horowitz CD. I started on this piece two yrs ago and I’m still polishing it and not having much luck in order maintaining control over my playing.
Bar 32 it’s impossible since you have to hold the pedal for the entire bar and not making any mistakes.

Dannylux, You are always posting the best music scores that are clearly easy to read.
Thanks for posting NO 9/2.
By any chance do you have Nocturne No 20 in C# Minor? Please post if you could. Thanks in advance.
I started leaning Nocturne No 20 in C# Minor with my teacher a month ago.

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#972891 - 12/01/06 03:12 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Opus 9 No. 2
Margareth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 100
Loc: Estonia
I love this piece. I started it two months ago. The pedal markings on my score are the same as Dannylux said.
I had trouble with polyrythm in this piece(bar 18) because I had never encountered it before. So I learnt small etudes to learn polyrythm. It's fun!
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#972892 - 12/01/06 03:36 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Opus 9 No. 2
stephenc Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 693
Loc: Australia
Margareth,

Great post!, you answered a query I had about this piece - ahhh it's called 'polyrythym'!!

I found the 'polyrythym' in bar 29 hard to get right (and still do). i'm not sure if I approach it the right way - I know that the right hand must play just slightly before the left and then vice versa, but I should probably just be able to keep an even rythm on the left and let the right come naturally. Its really tough to get your mind around!!

What are some of Chopins etudes you learned to better this technique?

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#972893 - 12/01/06 09:00 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Opus 9 No. 2
Margareth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 100
Loc: Estonia
Stephenc - I actually did not study Chopin etudes for it because they are too hard for me yet. My teacher gave me some very easy (way below my level) etudes that deal with the problem of polyrythms - it's about 10-15 easy pieces with cool melodies and they're fun to play. They are in the order of difficulty, starting to teach 2 vs 3 (which I found easier than 4 vs 3) and gradually the pieces get harder.
In this Chopin nocturne one accounters polyrythms straight in a quite complicated setting. After doing the etudes there is no problem with the Chopin ;\)

The little etudes were Janina Garscia's op.23. I don't know if they sell it in Australia though. Maybe there's something similar.

But I think its possible to get the rhythms of this piece without prior experience with polyrythms but its just harder. You have to have two lines running in your head - kind of get a groov of it. It will come. There were some good ideas how to learn polyrythm on the pianist corner on 3 vs 2 thread. Check it out here: http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/2/12017.html

Maka (who wants to visit Australia and swim in its warm ocean one fine day =))
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Attitude is everything.

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#972894 - 12/01/06 09:53 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Opus 9 No. 2
Schubertian Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 937
Loc: Dallas, TX, US
Thanks to everyone who posted a reply.

I guess the lesson here is that in the drive to provide texual purity and a dazzling critical apparatus and editor will sacrifice even basic logic and good sense.

I found it was easy to work out the four against three in measure 18 by first playing the quadruple as simply two notes - then it was only two against three - in mathematics this is reducing a problem to an easier one you already know how to solve. After about 2 weeks the 4 against 3 came quite naturally. I have recordings of about 6 famous pianists playing the nocturnes and none of them play this exactly accurately.

Measure 29 comes along pretty naturally too once you realize the figure is the same as the one in measure 26 but with one extra wiggle.

I found it much easier to play the cadenza in measure 32 by fingering Cflat - B flat - C - A using 2 3 4 1 - it feels awkward and counter intuitive until you realize that after the first two notes you can then just go 1 2 3 4 until the end.
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