Matt: Thank you so much for all the wonderful information (complete with web sites) you have posted. It's too bad I have to be out of town today, but I can't wait to get back to view them all.

Yes, I would imagine it is true that Paderewski would be more of a hero to the Poles than Chopin. While visiting the Polish Embassy in Washington, D.C (by the way, there is a huge statue of Paderewski in the front court yard, but not one single statue or picture of Chopin in the whole place. I asked my friend why this is so, and she said that the Embassy is mostly political.) I actually played on one of his pianos that was there. Just a few bars of a little waltz by Chopin. It was a big, giant beast of a thing, but the sound was magnificient. I can understand why the Poles would honor those who help their country to freedom. I have always thought that Lech Walesa was the man mainly responsible for not only freeing the Poles but for the eventual tearing down of the Berlin Wall. Yet, he does not seem to be given as much credit for his influence as he should be. (By the way, I am half Polish, so I don't apologize for my obvious pride in all that is Polish). I also wonder if most people know that millions of Poles (Catholic) were killed in German concentration camps also...along with the many millions of Jews. If I ever make a trip to Poland, I do not think I could take the trip to Auschitz, emotionally. I find it inconceivable what man can do to his fellow man. It is more than inhuman, it is bestial.

Learning Chopin's #4 prelude is a wonderful start. It is a moving and lovely piece and not that easy to play well. You also play the violin? I've heard it is the most difficult of instruments. Do you believe this to be true?

Rubinstein was my favorite interpreter of Chopin's music, and I had the good fortune of seeing him perform (I was actually on the stage with him, not ten feet away) many, many years ago, when I waS 15. No one can touch him...that is, of course, my opinion only.

There is a Chopin vodka. It is advertised on E-bay.

Elene: Wow...how silly of me. I blame the 4 years of Latin I took in high school. But I must confess that I have often heard the term opii. So I had to look it up in the dictionary, and yes, to my amazement, there is was. "Opera" Thank you.

I hope I am not totally wrong here for I am working from memory only. But in one of Chopin's letters, which I read many times but can't find now (naturally), he almost "bragged" about his etudes to his friend Titus (or was it Jan?). He said he thought they were quite wonderful. So I am assuming there must have been a bit of pride there. Of course, he was very pleased with many of his pieces...the mazurkas, not withstanding.

Contine to have a a wonderful time, Euan. Write to us from Warsaw, and please be careful. We all care for you very much.

My best,
Kathleen

Did you know that the Arthur Rubinstein competition is being held at the moment? They are halfway through. There is some Chopin in the schedule, but not as much as I'd like to see.

rubinstein piano competition

They lived in different times. Walesa is still alive, and was born two years after Paderewski's death. Walesa also was important person, but he fought mostly for workers rights, whereas Paderewski represented Poland during and in between World Wars. They did different things and in different times, so I think they can't be directly compared I'm however not going further, as I would have to read some historical books about these times to elaborate much more, and I don't want to misinform you

Thanks true. One of those Poles was my grand-grandfather whom I never been able to meet.

Can't agree more. That's why I think that the history of concentration camps and extermination should never be buried away. As terrifying and bestial it is, it is our - mankind - dark past words cannot really describe, and we all should be aware of what happened. Not only to commemorate those who died, but also not to ever let such thing happen again.

That's exactly what I thought after playing few measures As simple as it may seem or sound, it is not easy at all! I quickly realised, when I first played it, that I can't yet play it well! After months of developing musicality and touch I approached the piece again, finding myself to be much more capable of bestowing my feelings onto the keys.

I'm acctually studying the violin. It is so complex that I wonder whether I will ever be able to say I play the violin

I agree that violin is one of the most difficult instruments, yet the most beautiful. I have, however, talked with violinists who also played oboe and thought oboe was much harder!

It is certainly very difficult to begin with. On piano you can hit the key and get a pretty decent sound. To get a decent sound on violin months must pass. I guess after some point, where the true mastery of the instrument is revealed, both violin and piano are extremely difficult and complex, but from the very beginning violin is putting more obstacles to overcome by the player. Beginning with virtually unlimited range of colour and sound due to bowing, which is not easy to control, ending with intonation issues. After three years I still don't play well in tune!

Lucky you! Of famous pianists I haven't seen many. Janusz Olejniczak and Tatiana Shebanova (both scoring high in Chopin Piano Competitions) are among them. Now I seriously think I will be able to see Rafal Blechacz playing :-) He is here, in Poland, and I'm here, in Poland :-)


Mateusz

Hi gang - first time here in Chopin and thought it might be the right place to ask this - I recently heard what I thought was a fantastic recording of the Polonaise, Op. 53 - 1st Q: has this been recorded here on PW on any of the Recitals by any of the regulars, and if so, do you know which one? 2nd Q: among all his works is this one considered a particularly difficult one, even for advanced students? It sounded very difficult - is this deceptive?

Thanks, JF

Hallo JohnFrank, thank you for joining us on the 'Devoted' thread. I am not aware of any PW amateur recordings of the Op. 53 Polonaise, nor can I play it myself, but I just looked it up in Eleanor Bailie's 'Graded Practical Guide' to Chopin's works and she does indeed put it into the toughest category, along with all the Ballades, all the Scherzos, the Sonatas, most of the Etudes.... ergh! No wonder I can't play much by Chopin, however much I love his works

dannylux/mel recorded this Polonaise a while ago. But the last recording I heard, he only played up to the LH octave section. He probably has a whole piece under his fingers by now.

Why, yes, so he has, LisztAddict. Thanks for pointing this out.

Mel's recordings can be found here:
Dannylux\' nimble fingers

Thanks for the link to Dannylux' excellent rendition - while not quite as "polished" as the version I heard it's still incredibly good! Wonder when he's going to record the rest of it?

I just finished working on a highly simplified version of the Etude, Op.10, No.3 (it's all I can handle at this point) which is just the main, lovely theme & hopefully I'll get to the point someday when I can seriously consider taking on the "real deal".

I understand that the theme from this work was adapted into a pop hit sometime back in the 1940s maybe under the title "No Other Love" for singer Jo Stafford. There's also a jazzed up version of a Chopin waltz (Op. 18 ?) prerecorded on my Yamaha Clavinova digital piano (quite a neat arrangement actually).

Now, I understand that Chopin fans might not be too happy about all this insulting "popularization", but I was just curious if you knew of any of his other works that were adapted into pop tunes.

Thanks again, JF

The melodic heart of the Fantasie Impromptu was popularized as "I'm always chasing rainbows."

Welcome, JF. The song made popular by Chopin's Heroic is "Til the End of Time." I am not familiar with anyting called "No Other Love." Barry Manilow, in his song, "Could It Be Magic," used Prelude #20 as the theme.

Please do not apologize for playing a simplified version of Chopin's lovely music. I, myself, have played the etude #10, No. 3 and the E flat nocturne, Op. 9, #2, which were "modified" for those of us who can't quite yet handle the real thing. I, personally, feel that as long as Chopin's music is out there, being played...that's all that matters. I know the 18th waltz but am not aware of a jazzed up version. It is such a beautiful piece, I hope it wasn't ruined. Please drop in again. We'll be happy to hear from you.

Matt: You are so articulate with the English language. Did you learn it in school? As an retired English teacher, I always found that my foreign-born students worked so much harder at their studies and often surpassed their American-born classmates. Thank you for your long and informative post. I confess I know so little of Polish history, and I appreciate your taking the time to "fill us in." The cello is my second favorite instrument...so very soulful. I am finally polishing that haunting theme from "The Pianist," the C# minor nocturne. It took me forever. Another one of those pieces by Chopin that look so deceptively easy. But it was worth every single ounce of effort. The first section practically tears my heart out. What a genius he was.

Thanks, MaryRose...for letting us know about the Rubinstein competition. I always laugh when I hear some people say that he took such liberties with Chopin's music, when both you and I know that nothing could be further from the truth.

Dannylux's (Mel) playing is just astounding. What a talent he is. And what a wonderful person to boot.

We haven't yet heard from Euan. I hope he is OK and hasn't "overimbided?" again.

I left my $20 on a gambling boat yesterday. Oh well, easy come, easy go!

My best to all,
Kathleen

-Frycek - Yes, I'm very familiar with "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows" and have heard it by many different vocalists over the years. Thanks.

LovesChopin... - I'm also familiar with "Til The End of Time" & should have made the connection!

Here's a link to "No Other Love" on YouTube as recorded many years ago by Jo Stafford - the tune we know, which is awesomeof course, but the lyrics, while just slightly dated, are still fairly timeless in and of themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhbdHJyMmyk

Enjoy! And thanks for the warm welcome everyone.

JF

JohnFrank: THANK YOU SO MUCH. That was just exqusite!! I have never heard that before and what a pleasant surprise. Her voice is as pure as pure can be AND she stayed strictly with the melody, which is so unusual these days. Most singers today just can't seem to sing without straying from the melody, and, of course, almost screaming when they reach a high note. Jo Stafford's rendition was pure gold. Thanks again.

Have a super day.

Kathleen

Another 'pop song' version of Chopin's music was done by Serge and Charlotte Gainsbourgh, and is called 'Lemon Incest' but it is so foul I hardly like to mention it.

I second your thought Besides, having simplified version under fingers can often be an ignition point to master the real thing later!

There was a thread concerning simplified versions of famous and ridiculously tough pieces and one thing was mentioned though, which I find very important. It is a good idea to carefully select arrangements and to get one that would help one with mastering certain skills needed for original, instead of enforcing bad habits which would eventually make learning the original much harder.

It's nice to hear so, because honestly, I don't think I really am at this point In fact, I always think my written thoughs are not clear and well-structured, also full of mistakes I've been learning English for over 9 years now, both at school and privately, but had break long enough to deteriorate my abilities a lot. Whereas I read a lot in English, I missed opportunities of speaking and writing often. Now I find myself thinking and being unsure about words and structures I have used earlier without concern, especially while speaking. Also my pronunciation needs some polishing

I could say exactly the same about Polish students learning their mother tongue! Because our home language is our primary one, we often don't see any need to take it seriously and improve it. It's different with English, just like any other foreign language. We learn languages with some purpose and objective in mind, having some milestones such as certificates during our studies. Also the form of study is much more strict in terms of forcing well-though use of learned skills.

Sad but true, I'm not a history geek either. I did what I could to put some Polish Chopin related thoughts here though, with much pleasure of course

I love its sound quality, being so moving and expressive, both in higher and lower registers. Quite frankly, I completely adore bowed strings family, both due to sound and their shape and form. Not to mention pretty girls playing them - what a gorgeous match that is! :-)))

Same goes for me. I was thinking of recording that piece for ABF May Recital, but even after learning it for months now I still don't feel I'm ready for it. I'm learning new pieces, coming back to the "Pianist" nocturne once in a while to see how much emotions I can add with each take


M.

While we are on the topic of Chopin...

I haven't posted in a while, but my piano playing hasn't suffered, don't worry!

I actually just finished re-learning (as I played it a long time ago) Chopin's Etude Op 10 No 3, and I agree that the melody is quite beautiful. I'm also very fond of the climactic point in Etude Op 25 No 1, it seems to sing out even more than Op 10 No 3, which is sort of a quiet, but still romantic sounding piece. I'm currently trying to tackle it, the tempo will be the hardest part to master! That, and keeping my left hand quiet.

Anyone tackled the other Etudes aside from Op 10 No 3? They all seem to involve incredibly fast hand movements! I wanted to try Op 10 No 4, but figured I'd wait at least a little while

EDIT: You might like Rubenstein's rendition of Op 25 No 1, I certainly did! I'll link it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C90Mz4hvAzI

I guess I love 25/12 the most of all etudes. I haven't even tried playing it, as I suppose it would jeopardize all my effort with giving me bad habits and hand movements I'm not ready for. :-)

Thanks for the rendition! It was a pleasure to listen to

I hope to tackle the 10.3 in the near future; it will be my first of the Etudes. Haven't dared go near the others yet!

Well, Chopin's music is now being used to sell wine! The other night I saw a commercial on TV for Rutherford Winery, which had the Nocturne 9.2 playing in the background while they were showing lovely scenes of grapevines and rolling hills, green grass, etc. It was beautiful.... but then again, I always knew that Chopin and fine wine went together!

25/12 is an excellent etude. I think Chopin wrote some of his best stuff actually with the etudes. Some of the melodies are just beautiful. If they weren't so difficult I bet I would have run into them by now! I'm going to buy me a book of his etudes and have a whack at the lot of them!

Robert: Good to see you back among us. I'm sure Chopin would be so pleased to know that you are going to give his etudes a "whack."

Thank you for posting possibly the greatest pairing of anything in this world, ever!! Rubinstein and Chopin's 25/1 (which happens to be my favorite.) As so many of the people on you-tube wrote, he was incomparable. Such easy grace and elegance, so natural...every note like a bell. Those two were made for each other. I would imagine his playing would bring much joy to Chopin.

Matt: Please do not downgrade your English skills; they are excellent. It goes without saying that all your hard work has paid off. You should be quite proud of yourself. Bravo to you. I would also love to learn the true version of 9/2. It sounds relatively easy. How often have we heard that? How often does it prove to be true?

I can't remember when we've had so many special people posting on a regular basis. How wonderful it is to log on everyday and see so many comments. Thank you all.

Where or where is Euan?

Kathleen

Where or where is Euan? asks Kasha.

I expect he is too busy in the Polish bars and the lovely Polish lasses' arms (or boys' if he's that way inclined) to seek out Internet cafes all the time, but I hope he has some photos to show us when he gets back!

Hi--

I listened to some of Mati's playing on YouTube. I thought it was lovely. Check it out, folks. He doesn't sound like a beginner to me!

Kathleen, if you can play the posthumous C sharp minor nocturne, you can handle learning 9/2 in E flat (I am remembering that right, aren't I?). Not that any of them are really easy but that is definitely one of the less problematic.

Robert, 25/7, the "cello" etude, is one of the most accessible. That is, it must be, because I can play it! (I find parts of 10/3 still almost impossible, even though the structure actually is pretty simple and it doesn't need to be very fast.) There are also the Trois Nouvelles etudes, one of which is easy by Chopin standards, one not too terrible if you can do 3 against 4, and one harder but not awful.

There is also the rather odd and not often played 10/6, a melancholy and emotional piece. It is much more involved and complex than it appears at first glance (big surprise!), but it doesn't have to go at Warp 10 like so many of the others, and it's pretty doable.


Elene

originally posted by Elene:
I agree; that is the order in which I learned them. For the 9.2, my teacher advised me to really thoroughly learn the left hand section so that it could be played smoothly and without hesitations- which allows you to focus on the right hand melody and to play it musically. That doesn't mean you have to work exclusively on the left hand for the first few months of learning the piece- naturally you want to hear how it sounds under your fingers! But know that you have to have the left hand part memorized and on autopilot (my words, not hers) before the piece will flow. That is the initial hurdle.

Hi again everyone. Here is the jazzy version of the Waltz, Op.18 that I mentioned above.

This was preinstalled on my digital piano along with some other "light" classics as a demo of the possibilities for creative use of the "styles" (accompaniment soundtracks) built into the piano.

My apologies to any Chopin lover who might not be too thrilled by this "insult" to the master's work.

However, I think some of you may enjoy this upbeat, feel-good version. I wish I could tell you that it's me playing this, but ...

http://www.box.net/shared/4wt3iolwcg

Enjoy, JF

P.S. LovesChopin... - glad you liked the "No Other Love" recording - they don't write or sing them like that anymore (unfortunately)!

Chardonnay,

You are right about spending a lot of time on the left hand to get it automatic, not only for that nocturne, but for so much of Chopin. The left hand often has more complexity and challenge than immediately meets the eye. One of my teachers used to emphasize that, too.

A friend of mine is intuitively certain that Chopin was originally left-handed but was forced to write with his right hand as a small child. Of course there’s no way to know, but it’s an intriguing and plausible idea. Certainly he did a great deal to free the left hand from the constraints of the classical period.

Elene

This has Chopin 24 Preludes, so I hope you all don't mind I post in here.

I just listened to one competitor in the Rubinstein competition, and now I really really feel like a lousy piano player.

Carlos Ibay.
http://www.arims.org.il/competition2008/pages/english/media_archive.php?stage_id=3&competitor_id=18

His performance is not quite the best around, but this guy is blind[/b]. And he managed through some of the toughest Chopin Preludes pretty well.

Come on, LisztAddict, you are definitely not! :-) Who are we to compare to competition players? If I were to compare myself with Blechacz, Ashkenazy, Kissin, Cliburn or Volodos being dead serious, I'd have already ended up with throwing my piano through the window

By the way, not much of Chopin (only etude 12/4 as I remember), but I have recently watched a japanese TV drama (later done into anime, which I watched too) called Nodame Cantabile. It's set up in a music conservatoire telling the history of an extremely talented girl pianist Nodame falling in love with Chiaki, who's a great both piano and violin player, but his ultimate goal is to become a conductor.

I found that extremely inspiring! After each episode I literally jumped to the piano and started playing whatever I thought I could. There was a lot of piano music aside orchestral pieces - due to main characters.

Alongside main characters, Nodame nad Chiaki, the drama tells the story of lot of young players forming an amateur orchestra which allows them to develop, get inspired and end up as pros.

Here is the sample:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WAyLwQqv8uM

Rachmaninoff 2nd Piano Concerto (Rachmaninoff Piano Kyosokyoku Dai Ni-ban) played on two pianos from the series.

Get inspired too and never tell yourself you are lousy!


M.

Actually our clever LisztAddict is[/b] a competition player. He was on a piano competition website last year (Washington?) and played beautifully, as always.

Oh hell! What a faux pas! Sorry He is definitely NOT a lousy player, even if he wasn't a competition player

Hey Mati - have you seen the movie Con Amore? it's a Polish movie about 2 guys in the Chopin piano competition. I think it's a movie with the top notch Chopin piano playing. The movie came out back in 1977-1978. It's still around. I can buy it here too but the problem is that it's only in Polish language with no English subtitle.

No, I haven't heard of it - but I certainly should have! I'll look for it, thanks!

EDIT:

p.s. I have finally posted one of Chopin's preludes on my music YouTube Channel (link in the signature). With Chopin and classical in general it becomes much more obvious my technique is lacking than with simplier pieces. That's the first take - I have intentionally put a date in the title, as I hope I will record it again one day, giving much more of me to it. I hope it's not that bad, and I kindly ask for critical comments to help me improve :-)