I think it's supposed to be a cloak. Note it has a cape.

Cute, Mel!! A dress...?


O.K., since we're asking questions about the statue...what in the world is that thing he's holding on to? Is it some kind of abstract of a piano?

Kathleen

It's a windswept tree. I think he's supposed to be out in the weather getting inspired to compose 25/11, Winter Wind. He's probably just making his chest worse. Note: no hat, no gloves.

viva chopin !!
I´m sure God's having him as one of his main
composers for his angelic-praise-the lord choirs.

Minature portrait of Chopin painted by Polish artist Zygmunt Sowa for the 1949 centennial of Chopin's death.

The Chopin Monument, cut up by the Nazis and loaded onto a flat car, a photo taken surreptitiously by a Polish patriot, May 31, 1940.

Wow Frycek. Where did you dig out all these info/pictures?

I have the book they're in. It's a collection of essays published in 1949 for the death centennial. I got it on ebay. It's entitled Frederic Chopin 1810-1849 by Stephen Mizwa. The minature is the frontpiece of the book. I've never seen the flatcar picture anywhere else.

Frycek: Both are amazing.

The last (Chopin in the flatcar) gave me goosebumps. When the momument was standing, Chopin appeared proud, maybe a bit arrogant or distant, also...thoughtful and perhaps preoccuppied. But how differently the expresssion changed when viewed at a different angle and close up. It appears that he knows what is happening, not just to the statue, but to his country. His expression defies description. That's what's so spooky. The sculptor did a magnificient job in capturing what (I think) is a lot of anguish and despair but was also able to infuse into that cold piece of stone an obviously deep love and respect for him.

I'm going to see if there is another book on e-bay available.

Welcome Prober: We'll all second your cheer " Viva Chopin!" And what a wonderful thought about his being one of God's chosen composers.

Kathleen

Here's a link to an amusing Chopin story I ran across once upon a time. It's told by his Piano. Of course, his piano is decidedly female. The story ties in with Kathleen's least favorite Chopin movie Impromptu but don't hold that against it. Enjoy. And no, I didn't write it.


http://www.yuletidetreasure.org/archive/6/thepiano.html

Frycek: I absolutely loved it! How wonderfully clever and insightful. I wish I had the ability to create such a touching portrait using words. Thanks for sharing.

I think you should (in some way) post it on a "Those devoted to Liszt" site or somewhere so the Liszt fans can read it. I don't think it is insulting to him at all. It's a known fact that he did pound the living daylights out of a keyboard, but he also created magnificent music in doing so. That he was a showman is nothing to be ashamed of. He gave the people what they wanted, and they loved him for it.

And their friendship was (for too short a time) very cherished by Chopin (and Liszt also). Chopin was very fond of him. But like so many of his friendships, he let it slip away.

The piano was his first love and his last. He didn't seem to need anything or anyone else.

Kathleen


Kathleen

I need to start a new thread "Just for those totally devoted to Liszt".

But that brings up a question "what am I doing here?"

I think you'd have many "fans" if you started that thread, LA. You might want to start the thread on the Pianist Corner though and then bring it over here.

But, you know, some people can be totally devoted to more than one composer. Which means you could still hang out here. At least I hope you would.

Kathleen

Those of you who have read about Chopin's life will know that, during the best part of his final year, he was so ill that he was unable to compose or give the piano lessons on which his livelihood depended. In fact he died technically destitute - although fortunately he had many friends who ensured he had everything he needed right up until the end, including a superb new apartment in the best part of Paris.

At a time when he was sorely in need of money to pay his doctors etc, a huge anonymous donation was made of many thousands of Francs. This kind gesture has always been credited to Jane Stirling, a Scottish pupil who was in love with him.

However there are some people who believe that Jenny Lind, the megastar Swedish soprano, was the benefactor, and that she too was in love with him. I don't know if any of you have read this before, or whether it's true, but here is a link to the information:

http://www.iconsofeurope.com/chopinlind.drama.warsaw.introduction.htm

What d'you all think?

If it is true I do not know.
But I think Jenny Lind would have been the kind of woman who would make Chopin happy.

Sometimes I wonder if the Great Creator should spend a lttle more time with logistics. I mean just to let people who would make a good team be born at about the same time and place. I just can not see why he wants to see all this unhappy love-stories

Ragnhild

Maryrose:

Very interesting, but (this is just my opinion), I believe this story to be pure fiction. I've read many of Chopin biographies (about 20), and I never came across anything that would give credence to this theory about their relationship.

He knew he was dying, and he was too much of a gentleman to expect a woman to marry him when the marriage was doomed to be a very short one.

Another quote from him: (paraphrase): I am ready for the deathbed not the marriage bed. He made this comment about Jan Stirling.

Chopin admired Miss Lind and her singing voice very much; however, that he was in love with her to the point of marriage is pretty far-fetched. The man was dying. And one of his famous sayings at this time was "Rich women should marry rich men."

Jan Stirling was his main benefactor at the end, and this can be proven. She sent him 20,000 francs (which was misplaced at one time, a great story on how it was found) and she paid for his apartment and his funeral. After his death, she made certain that all of his belongings, compositions, etc., were sent to Chopin's sister.

I know Frycek will come in pretty soon with more facts. My memory isn't great and much of what I have read I've forgotten. But I am 98% positive that Lind and Chopin were never linked romantically.


However, I do have an open mind. But as I mentioned, I've never read anything that even hinted that their relationship was more than platonic.

Kathleen

Frycek doesn't know any more about Chopin and Jenny Lind than is found on that website. The only way to get any further information is to buy the book, which I may or may not do someday. Being perpetually broke does tend to put a cramp in my style sometimes. I do think though that as goodhearted as Jane Stirling was, she was actually just the go between for that gift of 20,000 francs, an apparently enormous sum. (Some have argued that a gift of that magnitude was out of her financial league, that while she was comfortable and well connected that she was far from personally wealthy. Chopin flatly refused to accept the money as a gift and finally accepted half of it as a "loan." Considering his condition at the time the difference is academic but the man had his pride. At that time he said something along the lines of he'd only accept it if it came from Queen Victoria herself. There's probably as much or as little evidence for the Royal Family being the benefactor as for Jenny Lind, about whom I really have no opinion. I do agree with Kathleen that Chopin would never have gone through a marriage that could never have been consumated. I've often wondered if Prince Albert, who came and stood by Chopin at the piano when he played for the Royal Family, might have had something to do with that money. He certainly showed more interest in Chopin than Queen Victoria did, who referred to him in her diary for that evening as "some pianist."

In the book: "The Glorious Ones" by Schonberg. there is a chapter devoted to Jenny Lind. The only mention of Chopin was his description of her as "a typical Swede, but not in an ordinary light, but in some sort of Polar dawn.....She sings with extreme purity and certainity, and her piano notes are steady, as even as her hair." ( As an aside, I am part Swedish and would like to know just what a typical Swede is?)

She appeared to be a very sweet and pure person and was quite religious. However, she did have her "diva" side. Not to take anything away from her. If I had her talent, I'd be a diva also. Could Chopin be considered a "divan" (the male counterpart of a diva)?

She was a shrewd business woman, but she was also quite charitable.

While Chopin did not consider her especially beautiful, he loved her native songs and compared them with those of his own country. He did meet with her several times for dinner with other guests, and she did sing for him alone until midnight on one occassion.

Frycek's suggestion that the 20,000 francs were not from Jan was news to me. Just goes to show that one learns something new everyday.

All in all, none of us will ever know the real truth about their relationship. It's all conjecture.

No matter; it all makes for some interesting possibilities.

Kathleen

Kathleen - I don't think that a woman being not especially beautiful would have affected Chopin's attraction or otherwise. Take Maria Wodzinska and George Sand for instance - neither classic beauties.

But as you say, we'll never know the real truth... not unless there is even more evidence uncovered at some point...

Actually, Jenny Lind was quite pretty in an almost little girl way. I've heard her character was as sweet as her looks.

I agree, MaryRose, that looks were not a determining factor for Chopin. I just mentioned it because he stated something to that effect in one of his letters.

Frycek: That portrait of Jenny is certainly lovely, and I did read she was pure of heart. However, not all the time. When and if I can find the sections in the chapter about her that weren't so flattering, I'll post them, and also another picture of her with her husband.

I, by no means, am trying to depict her in a negative way, just in a more realistic one.

We have a new nocturnite, NancyM.

Kathleen

Kathleen - someone who was pure of heart ALL the time would be boring indeed:-) (I certainly ain't!!) I look forward to hearing more about La Lind from you. If she gave Chopin any comfort whatsoever in his final months - be it the joy of hearing her voice, musical companionship or even something more romantic, I am grateful to Jenny Lind for ever.

I'm afraid I shall always see her through Hans Christian Andersen's lens.

Seven ways I try to cheer myself up when feeling sad about Chopin:

Sometimes when I am thinking or reading about Chopin’s life, particularly the purgatorial final years, I feel so terribly sad. At such times I try to list ways in which he was actually very fortunate:

1- How wonderful to know you have composed such music (and although modest, he wasn’t so stupid at to not recognise that his works are great)
2- He could actually play those works, and by all accounts, without much effort (unlike poor us)
3- He had a very fortunate childhood – I can think of no other composer who had a better start in life. Loving, sensible, unselfish parents who were able to give him just the right amount of opportunity without ever exploiting him
4- His musical education was ideally suited to his character; he had a strong foundation of harmony and theory, whilst being given his head in piano playing which must have gone a long way to contribute to his originality
5- When he got to Paris he was in the perfect place and time for his genius to flourish. He was welcomed into the society of the top musicians, intellectuals and artists of his day, and had a lifelong gift for making true friends so that he had a wonderfully protective inner circle almost from the beginning
6- Women cherished him right up to the end of his life
7- His music has been loved all over the world and all over the centuries by those who know about music, by those who just like a good tune, and by many in between. He continues to be venerated today by folks such as us to which I am sure he would respond by being heart-warmed (if slightly non-plussed!)

That’s the way I manage to cheer up sometimes… any other suggestions of how lucky he was?

He had the ability to laugh at himself, and to laugh through tears. Both are great gifts.

MaryRose: I couldn't agree with you more. That she brought so much happiness and joy into Chopin's life just when he needed it the most, would certainly qualify her not only as the Swedish nightingale, but as a Swedish angel.



I didn't mean to imply that she wasn't a kind and sweet woman, and she was certainly a wonderful and caring friend to Chopin. I remember how thrilled he was when she came to visit and sang into the night, obliviously making it an evening of pure bliss for him.

A. Lincoln is a great hero of mine. Some years ago, someone made a demaining remark about him, and I recall getting so angry I couldn't see straight.

I guess I am like Frycek in the respect that I wish all of our childhood fantasies could remain ever so, especially about the people we so love and admire.


Kathleen

Kathleen - thanks for posting that photo. It's lovely. Lind isn't beautiful exactly but she looks nice, and has quite a "modern" face.

This is an example, though, of comparison between painted portrait and photograph. She is definitely romanticised in paintings.

Frycek - thanks for your addition to Chopin's "good fortune list"; very true.

MaryRose: Your poignant post brought tears to my eyes, for I, also, get terribly sad and often depressed when thinking of his life. How so very short and so very painful it was, both physically and emotionally.

You definitely have taken the higher road when thinking of all the positives in his life. I agree with all of them. In so many ways he was so fortunate (think about poor Schumann, for example).

I think what upsets me the most is that he could have lived much longer if the doctors could have provided better treatment. And in doing so, he would not have sufferred and would have found the kind of happiness to which he was so entitled. I believe he deserved the very best because of his legacy to us.

There is not a day that goes by that I don't listen to a recording of his music. And though I have heard all of it, over and over, for years and years, it never fails to find that certain spot down deep within that can only be reached by his music and his music alone.

Frycek: The M.Chopin CD (2 discs) came in the mail today. I can hardly wait to listen to it. I feel like a kid the night before Christmas!

MaryRose: M. Chopin is/was a one-man played starring Hershey Felder as Chopin. The play takes place in Chopin's salon (the room where he gave lessons). The actor actually lost 30 pounds, plays the piano, and research for 2 years in order to do justice to his character. It's like he is giving a piano lesson to the audience and talking/playing at the same time. It was a sold-out performance everywhere it went. He did Gershwin before and is working on Beethoven next, in the same type of format. The actor actually looks like Chopin (at least, the way I would picture him.)

I am posting the front and back of the CD. If you want information on how to order it, let me know. And I will let you both know just how wonderful it is...tomorrow.





Kathleen

Thanks for taking the trouble to show us the outside of the Hershy Felder CD, loveschopintoomuch. He must indeed be versatile (or possibly have very good make-up artists) to play both Chopin, and Gershwin, and Beethoven!

Is the inside as good as the outside?

Love to all Chopinophiles on a blue-skyed morning near London

I'll have to order that Hershey Felder CD. I heard his performance as Monsieur Chopin and was very impressed with his playing. He is not a traditional classical musician and you can fault him on some things like tempo. Nor would he win any contests, because his style of playing goes against the conservatory approach to Chopin.

What is different about him is this very light, silvery touch that he brings to Chopin's music. In his hands, Chopin sounds even more mystical, romantic, and ethereal than we are used to hearing. Or, to put this in technical terms, Felder certainly can play fortissimo, but he utilizes pp and ppp tones unlike any contemporary artist. You have to go to recordings before the 1930's to hear anything like this.

Numerian, I wonder if Hershey Felder is actually trying to "enact" Chopin's own playing, rather than being himself? I also wonder what piano he used? Oh, why isn't this show coming to the UK! [groans]