WELCOME RAMONA:



Just what we need...another expert (or great researcher) on Chopin.

I also find it hard to believe that Chopin would like salmon and game (ugh!). I get the impression that he could very easily have lived on bread, chocolate and a bit of chicken (white meat, of course) once in a while. I think his stomach was very sensitive, and meat (in my opinion) would have upset his delicate constitution.

I recently ordered and finished "Chopin...His Life and Music" by Jeremy Nicholas, who is noted, principally, for being the biographer of Leopold Godowsky. Mr. Godowsky was famous for reinterpreting Chopin's etudes. Ala new techniques and variations.

Much of what Nicholas has written has been written before, and he often quotes other Chopin biographers. I guess the big difference is that the book comes with two CD's that are to be played when he specifically mentions particular Chopin compositions in the text. Sort of gives the book a bit more depth, I suppose.

Some information that I hadn't read before (and I always have that grain of salt handy whenever I read anything about Chopin) is that Julian Fontana comitted suicide 20 years after Chopin's death. I found this rather sad. In fact, I found the whole story about Fontana rather sad. I have to admit that I was angry with him for not honoring Chopin's wishes about destroying all his unfinished works. But then I read that he did publish them with the approval of Chopin's sister and family. So...? If he didn't publish those pieces, we would have never heard them. So, again???

Also, I remember posting the question why Chopin never dedicated anything to a member of his family. Well, according to Mr. Nicholas, Chopin did dedicated a piece called "Lento con espressione in C sharp minor" to his sister, Ludwika, published in 1875. I haven't heard this piece, that I recall, but I will look through the recordings that I have. Maybe it's never been recorded.

More trivia (again, according to Mr. Nicholas,) was that whole silly thing about the mind-reader finding the money that Jane Stirling left. The whole thing was a hoax put on for whatever reason.

And then a tidbit about Jane Stirling. She really had her sights set on marrying him, but Chopin said that she was too much like himself. (Now what does that mean?) What was it about her personality that so resembled Chopin's? He also said (among other things) that it would be "like kissing himself."

More later,
Kathleen

Did she look like him?

Funny...there could have been a very slight resemblance. Both had blondish hair (although I think hers was blonder and longer.) They were about the same stature. But she had money, and he did not. And he could play the piano; whereas, she did OK, but certainly not up to the master.

Kathleen

Their noses were similar.

Frycek: From the prints I've seen of her, her nose didn't stand out as being a bit large. She had a very pleasant face from what I remember.

Boy, I would really like to know why he thought she was so like him? Maybe that's why he wasn't attracted to her (you know, opposites attract, ala Sand). And Jane was 100 times better looking thatn Sand although I am not that certain if she was so intelligent. Maybe Chopin thought their intellectual ability was about the same.

I don't know, just guessing.

Kathleen

Congratulations to Hershey! I check his website every few months to see if he's added any shows. I would love to see M. Chopin!

Last night I went to a Chopin Society concert that was great. It was a benefit for a school, so it was very child-friendly (not in the kids-running-around way, but in piece selection). The pianist, Piotr Folkert, was excellent and played a nice selection of pieces from Chopin and others. It was narrated by one of our classical radio hosts, and he told bits about the composers' lives, especially Chopin. The pianist played the Andanta Spiniato/Grand Polonaise in E Flat, the Nocturne Opus 9 #2, Berceuse in D flat, and the Poloniase in A flat Opus 53. In addition he played Mozart's Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star Variations, Bach's Jesus, Joy of Man's Desiring and May Sheep Safely Graze, and ended with Rhapsody in Blue. All that, and it was only $20 to get in! I took my three boys, and it was just enough concert for their age (11).

The next Chopin event involves a Piazzoforte Quintet. I'm not sure what that means, but the pianist won the Internatioal Chopin Competition in the 90s, so I'm sure it will be good.

Nancy

Nancy: That sounds so super that I am afraid I will have to tell my husband of 42 years that his wife has decided to move to GA. But he is certainly welcome to join me if he wants.

How super that you have such wonderful cultural events, especially for children and especially about the piano and naturally, Chopin. It is so important that children are exposed to the classics as early as possible and giving them a look into each composer's life makes it even more enjoyable and meaningful, for then the composer becomes a real person who actually was once a child just like them and who created something truly wonderful that has lasted for hundreds of years ( ..long sentence.)

I don't think Hershey is going to add any more Chopin this year. Buy hey, there is always NEXT year, and maybe you can also catch the Beethoven.

Regards,
Kathleen

Good early morning to all:

I am not going to be around for a couple of days. I have a date with the red dot and recording my prelude. But I wanted to add something I read about one of the mazurkas (you are aware of the mazurka thread, right?).

It's about the 17/4, "one of the best-loved and with good reason....Von Lenz records that 'Even in Chopin's presence we called it "the mourner's face" --he was quite happy about this name.' (Eigeldinger. p. 74)" from Eleanor Bailie's book

Now from what we know of Chopin, this is somewhat of a revelation (if it's true, of course). But it did come from the book most consider a very accurate account of Chopin...from his pupils, etc.

Anyhow, just thought I would throw it in, for what's it's worth.

My best,
Kathleen

Just another quote from the book mentioned about, regarding Chopin's burial place in Paris.

"A visitor to Pere Lachiase today will find Chopin's grave adnorned by a marble monument designed by Clesinger. It is situated in a crowded enclave near the Carrefour du Grand Round that also provides the last resting places of Cherubini, Bellini, Herold, Nehul, Gossec, Pleyel, Charpentier and Pierne. Their tombstones are silent and empty. Chopin's, no matter when you visit, is adorned with fresh floral tributes."

It brought a lump to my throat reading this.

Kathleen

An eerie little note about Chopin's plot: Chopin attended the funeral of his friend Camille Pleyel's mother. Pleyel cried in his arms. Pleyel's mother was buried in close proximity to where Chopin's grave was later to be. Chopin would have passed very close by his future grave, perhaps he even noted the spot.

They say that even during the dismal days of both world wars that not a single day has passed without flowers on Chopin's grave.

Again, another lump...Frycek.

I finally got my prelude recording into Greg. And I don't mind admitting that when I heard the final playback (after about 24+ tries), I was in tears. Part of it, I know, was that I actually played this piece that I so adored. But the other part was that the music was overpowering. It is so simple in its charm and elegance, but underneath (as Schumann said)...guns under roses. Those final bass notes sounding almost like the grim reaper.

So many have pondered why he and his music are so beloved. I can only guess at the answer, at least for me. There is, in all he wrote ,a profound sense of aloneness. How we are all born alone and die alone. And although many of his compositions are light and lovely, if one listens closely, one can hear it even in these. Perhaps it is the melancholy that get us and reminds us that while life is beautiful, it is also very sad and oh so fleeting.

I better stop now as I am getting too maudin.

My sister and her husband are going to Europe next year for a month. They are going to make Paris their "home base," while traveling to other places. My sister asked if I wanted to join them. Because of some problems at home, I can't make such a huge commitment. But I told her that all I really wanted to do was to visit Chopin's grave and put flowers there. That would be so worth the trip.

(Oh, then I could call Hershey and we could "do" lunch!)

Time to take my dog to the groomer.

Deep affection to all,
Kathleen

How is all?

I had an exam, just finished yesterday. I miss the days of logging in and posting daily.

But you all know that I'm not going anywhere!!

We all hope your exam went well, Bassio. We do miss you a lot but know you have more important things to do right now. So you are forgiven.


For those of you who are Rubinstein's fans, I found this on the Internet and it would certainly be worth a trip to Poland to see it in person.



culpture of Artur Rubinstein on Piotrkowska Street in Łódź

Kathleen

The Poles do love their pianists!

Paderewski statue in the ground of the Polish Embassy, Washington DC

I have to share this with you.

My daughter was recently promoted and her job now entails much more traveling. She is leaving on Monday for Denmark for 10 days.

Anyhow, as I was talking to her over the phone just now, I kept saying "Showpinhagen." I knew it didn't sound right, but I couldn't figure out how I was mispronouncing it.

"Mom, it's Co-pen-ha-gen, not Cho-pin-ha gen!"

Good grief, one could certainly say I am a bit obsessed with our hero. :rolleyes:

Kathleen

Query - do we have any statues of any American pianists around?

THANK YOU SO MUCH, Frycek, for the photo of Paderewski. Here I had my camera with me but was so overwhelmed with everything that I never took a picture of it.

Gosh, I have no idea if we Americans have any statues erected to pianists. I tend to doubt it. We do love to put up those of statesmen and warriors and perhaps a literary person here and there.

Oh, wait a minute! I think I saw one of Van Cliburn somewhere, probably in Texas where he holds his annual competitions. I am going to check. I would think that the Texas (Texas has a Chopin Society, BTW) would be very proud of their native son and do something to show their pride.

Back later,
Kathleen

Well, here it is. A statue of Van Cliburn

Too small.

But, the statue is in Moscow! What is wrong with us Americans, anyhow? :rolleyes:

Kathleen

I've not had much computer time lately but have missed the Chopin thread! Glancing over the ABF topics, it seems as though "Devoted to Chopin" is a rootstock from which a number of flowering shoots have appeared. Soon we will have a whole Chopin garden

Ah yes, all roses to be sure (ooopppss), make that violets.

I firmly believe that once people (most people, that is) hear his music, it is almost impossible not be be taken away by it. There is something for everyone. Sweet and lovely... light and bright, haunting and dark, bold and angry, sad and despairing. It's all there, waiting to be heard and cherished.

He's the man!

Kathleen

Something is bugging me for a while, and when I was reading the Mazurka thread I read somebody joking about it but I find it a real question. So I address it to this thread with all the academics of Chopin:

Why are there no easy pieces from Chopin. Bach could do it, Mozart could do it, and I could go on the list of great composers that did make very great music but also very nice and often very well constructed simple pieces like menuets, bourre, entree, polonaises etc..

And don't tell me the Waltz #19 posth. in A-minor is easy. I tried that and the first page is easy (the jumps are tricky but doable), but after that....

Or is their somewhere a book with the "simple" 1/2 page pieces from Chopin I missed?

Just a thought - - I think most of Bach's easy pieces (some of which were written specifically for his numerous offspring) originally were written for harpsichord. I don't know if that has any bearing or not but I suspect it does because many things possible on a piano are not possible on a harpsichord. Also Chopin didn't write with an agenda, ever. He wrote what was in him to write. He may not have written any/many "easy" pieces but he never wrote any deliberately difficult ones either, unlike Liszt, who later found he had to simplify his original versions of the Transcendental Etudes because no on else could play them.

I'm not the Chopin scholar Frycek is, but didn't Chopin write some of his pieces specifically for his students, who were mostly amateurs? There aren't any real "baby" pieces (unlike for Bach), but some are definitely on the simpler side.

THe Nocturne Op 9 No 2 - he had his students work on that -
and on the other nocturnes too if I'm not mistaken

Good question and I think one that has been asked before, a long time ago.

I agree with Frycek that Chopin just wrote what he felt with no thought to whoever might be playing his music. When he was giving lessons (and this I have some question about), he had his students play other composers' music, never Bach's however. Nor did he have his "average" students play his own that very often. (Maybe he was afraid of how they would murder it, who knows. And with Bach, being his hero, the same thing.) This was taken from the book: "Chopin, as a teacher, as seen by his pupils." Many students wrote that he used the music of other composers the most often.

Chopin definitely wrote pieces that a student with a couple of years experience (maybe less, depending on the student) could play. The 4 preludes are an example. Certainly easy to play but not easy to interpret correctly. There are a couple of easier mazurkas also.

Chopin was his own man, and even though he depended greatly on the monies he received from the compositions he sold (and he put a very high value on all of them), he never wrote for the "mass market." It just wasn't his style.

Called it a bit arrogant, perhaps, but I don't believe this. If you can equate him with an artist for example. Does a serious painter paint what he "thinks" the people will buy? I doubt it.

I can only assume that since his music was so much in demand, that there must have been a huge number of people at that time who were skilled pianists. A piano in every home (even some of the most modest dwellings) was commonplace. And since there was little else to do (no TV or video games, etc.), music was quite the mainstay of entertainmennt back then.

Too bad things have changed. In my opinion, (and I am speaking generally, of course), people have gotten lazy. It's much easier and less of a challenge to the brain to get that remote control and stare at a screen for hours on end. Or to use your thumb to see how many people you can mame or kill. Instant gratification.

I am reading a very fine book by Seymour Bernstein. The last chapter deals with the "amateur" pianist and how they are to be so admired for their dedication to music. Most, certainly, have jobs that use up a lot of their engery, and yet, as exhausted as they are after a day's work, they are "compelled" to sit at the piano and play. It is (I'm paraphrasing here) their desire to make sense of the world around them. To bring order out of the chaos and thus beauty to their lives and their world. To become one with the universe (wow, heavy stuff here).

That it takes every fiber of one's brain power and physical strength, sometimes, to be able to recreate the world's most lovely sounds on the piano, makes them (in my estimation) the true heros in this world.

And yes, I agree that the A minor waltz is not that easy. I think because of several measures within, that it should be a 6. This, after having struggled with those measures for quite a long time.

Kathleen

I'm definitely not a Chopin scholar except as far as his life is concerned but it's a misconception to dismiss Chopin's amateurs as beginning to intermediate players. One had to audition for him and he was quite picky. He could afford to be as he was the most sought after teacher in Paris. He didn't take beginners or children with the sole exception of Carl Filtsch who had he lived might've been the next Liszt. His amateurs were serious amateurs putting in long hours of practice. (Chopin recommended no more than three hours a day to one student who was getting stale from overwork putting in six.) Some of his "amateurs" had reached such a high standard that only their rank in life prevented them from professional performance. And many of his students, while not celebrated concert artists, were working musicians and respected teachers.

double post

Considering how "picky" he was, I thought the following was rather generous of him.

If he heard that a person who was not his student was going around telling people that he was his student, Chopin would only shrug and say something like: "Well, if it does him good then what's the harm?"

To be a student of Chopin's was considered a very outstanding "achievement."

I, personally, wouldn't take such a kind view of it.

Kathleen

"I don't know him but if it does him some good to be thought my student, let him remain so."
Chopin knew first hand how hard it could be for even the very talented to get noticed as a musician and composer from his lean early days in Paris.

Thank you for the elaborated answers. When I read them I was thinking.. but he must have some "early" work less complex or some "try-out" pieces something like that. Then I searched the internet and found that he did write his first polonaises at age of 7. Well... so much for early work I think it is to bad because I truly in love with all those baby pieces and adding a Chopin to them would be very nice.

Didn't know Seymour Bernstein…. (just starting to learn about all that classical stuff) but he does about me I see.. But your right on the money about the time spending these days. Although I don't have a tv I never think in such a poetic manner about playing the piano however I will do my best to uphold the responsibility that comes with being a hero . Sorry had to make a joke at the expense of your magnificent writing