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Kathleen,

I was writing to you about my difficulty in finding the melody in Chopin pieces, and you encouraged me to start that question in this thread. I had started a previous thread of my own called, "Chopin appreciation needed" and had many interesting comments.

When I listened to your piece by Edward MacDowell, "To A Wild Rose" in the last recital, and heard such expression and excellence I concluded that playing Chopin music might have something in it to improve my own piano skills. Even though I'm not at the level of playing any Chopin at this point, I could learn a few things from a discussion of this sort.

Difficulty in finding the melody in Chopin? That's akin to saying you are having difficulty in finding any water in the sea... Seriously, Chopin is the most melodic of composers. His music "sings" and he was inspired by bel canto opera arias. How much Chopin have you listened to Joangolfing? For example, do you know the Nocturnes?

Hi Joan:

Thank you for your kind words about my recital piece. To be truthful, the reason I was attracted to the piece was ....it was short and sounded relatively easy. But, even before that, I thought it had such a lovely and tender melody. To say that playing Chopin has honed my skills for this piece might be true. However, again, the melody got me. Just as the melody "gets" me with Chopin.

You once mentioned also that you thought his music was a little "fussy." Not exactly your words, but I think I know what you mean. Yes, there is a lot of Chopin that is very, very sweet and overly sentimental...the melody being so simple, yet so soulful. As Hershey once said..."pure and honest." And, of course, the ornamentation, that is so inherent in his music, helps create an almost dream-like quality to much of his work. But, as I once said, that ornamentation is not for show or glitter. It is imbedded deep within. Some of his nocturnes can seem almost too sweet, and maybe this is what turns some people off, especially those that have been played or heard over and over and over.

But, there are many of his nocturnes that are bold, brooding and dark. Not a trace of sweetness to be found. My favorite Chopin composition is the nocturne, Op. 48.1. It is magnificient in its power. And yet, there still is a melody...always the melody.

There are also compositions that are almost violent in nature...rage and anger very apparent.

Chopin was a very complex man and his music is more than just a sweet melody. It encompasses every emotion that man can experience.

So, if you are looking for more "meat," for want of a better term, listen to his etudes, scherzos, ballades, sonatas and especially his Polonaiise-fantaisie in A flat major, Op. 61. It will curl your hair! When I listen to it, there is something there that almost borders on insanity. Not that I think Chopin was insane. Absolutely not. But this piece is so far into the future (in my opinion) that it is almost scary. But I love it!

Thank you, Joan...for posting. We all would love you to love Chopin as we do. That might happen if you give him a chance. But maybe not. All of us are very familiar with his life, and I think that knowledge along with his music sort of makes up the whole package. For to know and love the man is to know and love his music.

Sorry, I got carried away.

Regards,
Kathleen

Hi All:

There is another thread going on the AB dealing with improvisation. Some have the ability/talent and some of us need that sheet music in front of us. Count me in with that latter group. But how I envy and admire people who can improvise. We have heard what Peyton did with Chopin's "Spring" song. Amazing!

While flipping through "Chopin: As teacher and pianist, as seen by his pupils," I came across this quote by Fontana. I found it quite lovely and thought I'd share.

"From his earliest youth, the richness of his improvisation was astounding. But he took good care not to parade it; and the few lucky ones who have heard him improvising for hours on end, in the most wonderful manner, never liifting a single phrase from any other composer, never even touching on any of his own works--those people will agree with us in saying the Chopin's most beautiful finished compositions are merely reflections and echoes of his improvisations. This spontaneious inspiration was like an inexhaustible torrent of precious materials in the ferment. From time to time, the master would draw out of it a few cups to throw into his mould, and these were found to be full of pearls and rubies."

from the [Preface to] Oeuvres posthumes de Fred. Chopin, pp, 1-2

How I wish I were among one of those very lucky people. I can't even imagine what they must have heard.

Kathleen

maryrose, your reminder prompted me to come out of "lurk-dome" and register so that I could cast votes for our hero! He was still in second place last time I checked, but no matter.. in my opinion, he is second to NONE, not even Beethoven (whose music I do greatly admire).

Greetings, fellow Devotees, from yet another Chopinaholic

I have enjoyed indulging my addiction to Chopin on this wonderful thread (and the other ones related to the Prelude recital and the 48.1 Nocturne). Would you believe, I have read every page of this thread over the last few months? Also, the 48.1 thread finally convinced me to start this amazing piece myself; I had been resisting because of the lure of other Chopin pieces, including the Etude 10/3, but I finally succumbed to this Nocturne and am trying my best to learn it, although it will be a long term project!
Special thanks to you, Kathleen, for starting this and the 48.1 thread- you are truly the heart of these threads and our group!

Chardonnay!

It's always a red-letter day when someone comes out of "lurkdom." Pleased to meet you and thank you for your wonderful post.

I can't believe you've read all the posts/pages on this thread!! You deserve some kind of medal...perhaps the "Chopinaholic of the Month" Award! Maybe even the "Year!"

Seriously, every time we hear from someone new who has been reading and finally posts, it's really quite a joyous occasion, believe me. I know there are many like you, and I wish we could hear from everyone. I hope you have encouraged others to join in. Really...we don't bite. :p

I think it's great that you are taking on the challenge of the 48.1. Once I get my prelude down and recorded ( :rolleyes: ), then I am going to join you and the others. But I know I will be bringing up the rear. But that's O.K. Perhaps you and I can commiserate with each other as the others go flying by us.

Please, please don't be a stranger. I'm certain you have some tidbits about Chopin that we would like to hear. Or some experiences about playing his music, etc.

Thank you for your kind words, but I could have never, ever done this alone, as I am sure you know. Once again...welcome aboard.

Regards,
Kathleen

A little bit of accidental homage to Chopin - I didn't plan this but thought it made a picture --

So....elegant, Frycek. It almost looks like a room right from Chopin's day.

I envy that you can see the music with just that lovely lamp. I have to have two...one a regular floor lamp and the other, that is like a spot-lite that goes all the way to 200 watts. And then I have to blow-up all my music and push the music stand right up to my nose.

Where is that painting you had of Chopin when he was 19?

Kathleen

On the opposite wall. I was standing in front of it when I took this picture.

How would that painting look right above the piano? Too much? ...with the other one right there? Your room would start looking like my office (remember...wall to wall Chopin, plus a wall for Hershey's Chopin)?

Kathleen

Hey! Guess what!? I think this is my FIRST post on the Devoted to Chopin thread!! )

Anyway, I was reading an article in the NY Times about Alex, the smart parrot who recently died, and came across this intriguing quote about James Huneker, the music critic:

"The deepest recursion is consciousness — knowing that you know and that you know that you know. In his recent book, “I Am a Strange Loop,” Douglas Hofstadter proposed that the richness of a creature’s mental representations be used to take the measure of its soul.

The unit Dr. Hofstadter whimsically proposed is the “huneker,” named for James Huneker, a music critic who wrote that Chopin’s 11th Étude, in A minor, (Op. 25) was so majestic that “small-souled men, no matter how agile their fingers, should not attempt it.”

I could NOT believe my eyes, Monica, when I saw your name. So a big WELCOME! And thank you for that very intriguing post.

I admit I had to read it a few times to "get it," (it's early in the morning here, and I am not quite awake...ha [she says trying to come up with an excuse]).

Whenever we speak of a man's soul, that's pretty deep stuff. But then we often speak of the "soul" when we speak of Chopin music.

[Edit:]

Thanks so much, Monica. It was great having you visit, and any time you come across any thing about Chopin, please come back.

In a completely opposite and absurb post...

While watching a football game yesterday (I was reading, but husband was watching.) However, during a commerical, the music caught my attention. I think the commerical was advertising a new video game that contained these scary and indestructible robots that were walking through the city streets, laying flat all buildings and humans and everything else. The music in the backgroud....the thunder and lightning section of the Raindrop Prelude!! Good grief! Chopin during a football game. What will be next?

Regards to all,
Kathleen

What I found intriguing about the quote was Huneker's suggestion that Chopin's work demanded, in addition to technical skill, a level of "soul" (however we defined it) to play well... and the implication that somebody who wasn't quite up to either aspect had no business even trying to play it. Kind of sobering to an adult beginner who likes to hear favorite pieces being butchered by herself, no matter how butchered they are.

But, Monica!!! You have so much SOUL that you could (and should) play Chopin beautifully.

Kathleen

Wow...only 6 more posts to 2700!

A STRANGE AND CURIOUS DISCOVERY

While learning/playing Chopin's Marzurka in Gm (Op. 67, #2, posth), I thought measures 17-32 seemed a bit familiar to me. It dawned on me later that they bore a very similiar resemblance to measures 50-58 in Chopin's lovely Waltz in AbM (Op. 69, #1), which I learned about 6 months ago.

I have often read that Chopin never really repeated anything from previous compositions that he wrote in new ones. That was part of his remarkable genius.

And I am not saying that these two sections are the same...they are not. But the structure of treble clef (especially) does follow the same pattern (I think that's the best way I can state it). I have little theory background, but I did get the "sense" that these two sections were "cousins," in other words.

Just a random observation...

Regards to all,
Kathleen

Oh yes he did.

Here is one example - the upper is from Piano Concerto No 2, and the lower is from Nocturne No 20 .

Then there's that sonata and that prelude and that funeral march - - -

Ah yes, Frycek, I do remember someone from some time ago calling attention to those you mentioned.

LA: Just a 4 notes. Not too bad.

You know I have always marveled that, even though there is an infinite number of notes/sounds out there that can be arranged in an infinite number of patterns, it seems humanly impossible not to repeat in some form or fashion. I think Chopin, considering all he wrote (for basically just one instrument), is to be admired for he "repeated" so very, very seldom.

I don't know that much about other composers. Maybe someone who has more knowledge about them can comment.

Thank you both,
Kathleen

Hi everyone, I've had computer problems so have been missing my favourite thread.

I would like to comment on LisztAddict's example of Chopin supposedly repeating himself. Perhaps he is unaware that this work, never meant to be published, was specifically written for Chopin's sister Ludwika as an introduction to prepare her for that very same Piano Concerto - i.e. he used elements of the Concerto in the Nocturne as a sort of exercise.

This Posthumous Nocturne has won popularity through its role in the film "The Pianist", but it is rather sketchy and I don't think Chopin would be pleased that it has been "made public".

Hi MaryRose: Welcome back! We missed you and many of us can relate to computer problems.

Always the expert on such things, thank you for that information about the nocturne.

I always wonder what Chopin would be thinking right now, as we play his music (sometimes correctly and wonderfully and then sometimes unbelievably wrong.) I just hope he takes it as the compliment it is meant to be...especially by us amateurs.

But those pros that we see on the stage with all the body swaying and groaning, he would be livid, I'm sure...as he should be.

But,I KNOW he would be absolutely amazed and pleased that his music has stood the test of time.

Kathleen