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Sorry for the confusion.

I am indeed talking about the Posthumous Nocturne c-sharp minor. The one in "The Pianist" film. It doesn't sound that difficult and it's not played so fast... I know it's ridicilous to hear something like this from a beginner, but the notes does not seem sooo hard.

Anyways thanks for the answers. If i ever get the permission to start on it, I'll let you know about my development on the Nocturne.

That may be true, but it makes up for it with interpretation and control. Welcome and I hope you'll be able to learn it soon.

Welcome! (Even though I'm new too.)
The way you put that part about "Russian teachers" is pretty funny, because it's such a stereotype but it's usually true.

It's hard to say "how long" it would take to learn that posthumous C# minor nocturne. It depends on how much the person practices, plus of course on other things about the individual.
And of course it depends on what we mean by "learning" -- do we mean just being able to play through it, or something more?

But nevertheless I'll give a time frame: I'd say a month.

Thanks for the good wishes! About Huneker.....yes, it's clear that he loved Chopin, but it seems that he loved his own writing even more.

And I don't hold that much against him. There's a certain charm about style of writing, plus I think there's a contagious enthusiasm about seeing almost anything that the person himself is so much into, whether it's writing, piano playing, dancing, or really almost anything.

P.S. I see that you have a Lyon & Healy piano......you might be interested in this other thread where someone asked what's the brand of a particular piano. I guessed L & H; nobody else thinks so.
https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...cognize%20mark%20of%20p.html#Post1303321

Wow -- great get on Huneker's Joseffy obit. I just flashed on it and see that it's LONG, so I bookmarked it and I'll read it later.
Thanks!!!

BTW......I'm not at all familiar with this "grading" thing.
How high does the scale go?
What would something like the Mephisto Waltz grade at?
(I don't want you to look anything up, just to give me some idea off the top of your head.)

Mephisto Waltz would probably by "diploma level." Eleanor Bailie has a pianist guide to Chopin's solo works and she uses the ABRM grade levels - the lowest of any Chopin pieces is a prelude (I think 10/4 ?) that's a grade 4 going on up to "Very Advanced" - to clarify - most of the etudes are considered Grade 8 or Grade 8+ or Very Advanced. Most of Chopin is grade 7 up and up and up.

Huh.........so, that nocturne is JUST 1 LEVEL below the etudes?
Hmmmmm.
Sounds like the scale isn't very broad.
I would say there are several levels separating the two.
But maybe I'm a hair-splitter.

I think you mean 28/4. 10/4 certainly isn't easy


I think, because 8+ and, especially, "very advanced" have no upper limit of difficulty,the difference in difficult levels can often seem less than they actually are. It can be anything from an 'easier' Chopin etude all the way to Rach 3. This is, of course, not considering what different people find difficult. For grade 8, I'm less sure, but I assume there is quite a large leap between grade 7 and 8?

Ok, I'm home now. I have my book at hand, the name of it is The Pianist's Repertoire Chopin by Eleanor Bailie. There's a pretty big gap betweem grade 7 and grade 8 and only the easiest etudes (three of twenty-seven) are listed as Grade 8, six more are listed as 8+ and the rest (eighteen of them) are listed as (shudder) Very Advanced. I can handle Grade 8, and 8+ with some trepidation but once one hits Very Advanced, one enters a no man's land. The harder etudes are literally "off the chart." So, you see, there can be quite a gap in difficulty between a grade 7 nocturne and the majority of the etudes.

I did. (sheepish look) Good spotting.

I guess the reason there can be such a huge gap between levels 7 and 8 (and 8+) is that once it's above "7," it's basically just "very advanced," and there's no need for such a scale because it's a whole different realm. Kind of like, above 7 is "off the scale," and above that level, pianists can essentially pick whatever they want and they'll fare pretty well.

The psychotic analogy that occurs to me is in WATER SKIING, when we "cross the wake." (Don't try to make any sense of that, I said it was nuts.)

Maybe here's a saner analogy: In some piano competitions there's a numerical system for advancing contestants to each next round but no such scale for judging the finals -- the judges just "discuss."

P.S. I didn't even notice that the other post said "Opus 10" for the prelude; I read it as though it had said Op. 28.
Sometimes our minds just automatically fill in the blanks.....

(see above post for my 'theory' on why there can be such a gap between 7 and 8......)

I only know that I have and would attempt to learn a 7, but I would definitely give some serious thought to tackling an 8 again.

Steven: That lovely C#m posth, NO, 20, nocturne is indeed a 7. Since the posth was omitted, I thought she was referring to the 27, #1. However, the runs are killers if one doesn't have any experience playing them. That's why scales are good practice. I say this with a guilty heart, since I haven't played them in many decades.

MarkCannon: When you do practice, dear heart??

My Lyon and Healy has a lion inside. (Yes, a real one. It actually growls whenever I sit down to play. That's why I keep the top down.) I believe my piano tuner said that all their pianos had this trademark, somewhere.

Kathleen

LOL.......I guess you mean because I've been on here like continuously?
I'm new here and just can't get enough of it. And, truth be known, I've hardly been to the piano in these two days.
Presumably that will change.

Mark,

Eleanor Bailie makes clear in her book that her ratings are intended to encompass the works by Chopin that are within the reach of most pianists. She explains that her strategy was dictated by the need to avoid overwhelming length—the book is over 500 pages as it is—and by the recognition that the most advanced pianists are probably in least need of the sort of practice/performance guidance she provides. The practical result is that, while virtually all of Chopin's works in all categories receive some treatment, she goes into far less detail with those rated "VA" (Very Advanced).

Like you, I'm broadly unfamiliar with rating scales. They're arbitrary, and different sources offer different ones; of course, in the U.S. we don't have a national board to establish curriculum or grade levels, either.

Also, it's not uncommon for such categorizations to be skewed toward repertoire that reaches a moderately advanced level but not beyond, probably because relatively few people have virtuoso skills. A good example of that bias is this chart at Sheet Music Plus:

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/help/level-guidelines

It has ten levels, and representative compositions at the highest level are the Brahms Rhapsodies! Is as though they completely lopped off all genuinely advanced music, and then redistributed the scale amongst the lower ranks of difficulty.

Steven

YES! -- This part of what you said is exactly what I was thinking and what I tried to express: "......the recognition that the most advanced pianists are probably in least need of the sort of practice/performance guidance she provides."

I think he only practices just before a competition.

Is my playing THAT bad?

or you are just way too good! ha