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#978314 - 01/27/07 09:53 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Bassio: Welcome. I was very impressed with your insights about Chopin...man and music and how to play his music. We all know that Chopin did put his heart and soul into his music, but, as you say, not EVERYTHING he felt. For all his reserve, he had to keep somethings to himself. And to play Chopin with dripping sentimentalism is an insult to the composer and a valid indication that the pianist has a lot to learn. Thank you for your comments.

I agree Ragnhild...lovely! It's difficult to realize that Chopin is not your #1, for you play him with great affection and understanding.

And that nocturne...is it any wonder why some of us are "stuck" in the nocturne phase?

And you MUST come to my home and give me lessons on trills. They are proving to be my biggest problem. 2/3 or 3/4...OK, but 4/5, it's always iffy when I play them.

Thank you for sharing.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978315 - 01/27/07 10:06 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3405
Loc: US
Ragnhild,

That was just lovely!! I really enjoyed listening to your playing! The nocturnes are among my favorites too... as well as the ballades. oh, and the mazurkas, and the scherzos, and let's see , uh the fantasies, the preludes and polonaises.. and , well you get the picture! \:\)
One things that is interesting to me is that I can get tired of listening to other composers after a while but I never tire of Chopin (or Beethoven).

Sophia

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#978316 - 01/27/07 10:52 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Thanks Hersh: \:\)

I am almost a little worried about seeing the newest production of M. Chopin. I have to admit that I did supress a couple of sobs when I first listened to the recording. Still do, here and there. With what you have told us about the new production, it may be almost more than I can take. As you mentioned, you heard weeping in the audience. Is this not the greatest compliment to you as an actor and to Chopin, not as a composer, but as a man who was loved so deeply by so many?

As I may have mentioned, I do have biopolar disorder (I'm perfectly sane...most of the time \:D ), but the medication I take does do a number on my emotions...I don't have any! Isn't it strange that I couldn't cry at my daughter's wedding, yet I do when I listen to much of Chopin's music.

What does this mean? I have no idea.

Of course, I know that to be able to play and speak to an audience is not something one can achieve in a few months. When you mentioned that it was a lot like playing one of Bach's fugues, with all the voices, all going in different directions...well, that's where I'd have to surrrender. I guess I have a one track mind. :rolleyes:

Thank you for taking time from your busy day to answer my questions with such wonderful details.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978317 - 01/27/07 11:49 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Bassio Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 2480
Loc: Alexandria, Egypt
Thank you guys for your comments. I guess that I am now accepted in this thread. ;\)

Anyway, I would like to mention that Chopin is not my number 1. And, maryrose, I am sorry but he just can't be number one.

I am glad that you agreed with my thoughts about Chopin. I really feel now that I got real understanding of his music.

I can see that most members here in this thread are A-1 chopinaholics. The interesting fact is that this thread may need some somewhat-sober chopinaholic (and that may be me) ;\) . And this will lead to very interesting discussions.

Again I repeat my question, were you discussing a certain aspect or subject before I arrived? Or do I delve into the next subject??

Anyway, if you weren't here are some subjects we might have to discuss (some are very controversial ). I will give some suggestions and I will leave the leader of the thread, loveschopintoomuch, to choose what is suitable?

1- Some people accuse Chopin of being a miniaturist (a composer of small pieces)!! What do you think?

2- Chopin, his weakness evident in orchestral writing??

3- Discussion of various pieces and favorite recordings

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#978318 - 01/27/07 11:56 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Bassio Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 2480
Loc: Alexandria, Egypt
Oh I forgot, you were discussing Chopin as a romantic composer.

In my opinion, yes of course he is a romantic composer.

Isn't the romantic movement the movement that stressed to express all the emotions without clinging to the classical structures of music declaring more freedom in expression and hence more complex musical language. This is typical Chopin I am sorry. Of course he is unique and individual from all his colleagues at that time, but the fact that Chopin just not liking the naming is just plain absurd I am sorry. He may be a genius composer but when it comes to personality and method of thinking, he might have been of lesser genius. ;\)

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#978319 - 01/27/07 12:35 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Schubertian Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 937
Loc: Dallas, TX, US
Greeting Chopin-istas!

I'd like to weigh in on the Chopin/Romantic controversy.

To some extent it's and argument about words and if Chopin didnt want to the label then there is something to look at there. Nevertheless he is also a product of him time and there are strong parallels between his music and what was also being produced by Schumann and Bellini and Lizst -

My favorite treatment of Chopin and his age is Charles Rosen's wonderful "The Romantic Generation" (all of Rosen's books are excellent - readable, informative, useful). He devotes 3 of the books 12 chapters to Chopin and it may take this level of detail to show Chopin in perspective.

But as a Schubertian I have to object to:

--"Schubert's music was too overly-sweet and prissy. And on and on."

This is a late 19th century cliche - I doubt Chopin was much aware of Schubert's music - I dont think he would have found it prissy - Schubert's lieder have an emotional honesty and sophistication which are second to none but I think it takes access to these masterpieces (which we now fortunately possess in the form of Fischer-Dieskau and Hyperion's complete lieder series) to truly appreciate.
_________________________
'Always remember: the higher we fly the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly.""
- Nietzsche

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#978320 - 01/27/07 12:43 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
 Quote:
Originally posted by Schubertian:

But as a Schubertian I have to object to:

--"Schubert's music was too overly-sweet and prissy. And on and on."

This is a late 19th century cliche - I doubt Chopin was much aware of Schubert's music - [/b]
Re Chopin and Schubert - I can't remember a single reference in Chopin's letters or any quotation of Chopin that refers to Schubert so you're probably right. I've certainly never heard that he considered his music "overly sweet and prissy."
_________________________
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#978321 - 01/27/07 01:36 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
Schubertian, Frycek - I agree, we don't really know what Chopin thought of Schubert. We must not forget that people in those days did not have the easy access to music that we do today.

(Personally, I adore Schubert and think he is not made enough of nowadays.)

Bassio - you raise some interesting topics for future discussion! I look forward to that. But to continue our present "talk" about Chopin the Romantic (was he wasn't he) you have to think of his own comment from the perspective of his time. (BTW I agree that he has a lot in common with Bellini at least.) I think Chopin was conscious of this new trend sweeping the arts, and did not want to be associated with the more vulgar aspects of Romanticism. His music is very purely musical, whereas most Romantic composers had literary references in their works. To him that would have seemed like detracting from the purely musical IMO.
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#978322 - 01/27/07 03:17 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Hello Bassio: \:\)

People who choose to post on this thread are always welcome. We have no qualifications here. You certainly don’t have to cherish Chopin as your number one composer. Just because a few of us do, we are pretty broad-minded and realize that not everyone thinks or feels the way we do.

That being said…there are no restrictions to what we talk about. Anything and everything…well, discretion is appreciated. :rolleyes:

A few of us are not only totally devoted to Chopin but could be considered experts. Even though I have read dozens of books about Chopin, I can’t consider myself in that category.

But, I would like to give my opinion to the interesting topics you have raised. I hope you realize that almost everything written or expressed about Chopin is basically, opinion. Viewpoints, based on certain facts but, nonetheless, interpreted using personal and/or biased attitudes.

So, let’s begin:

- Some people accuse Chopin of being a miniaturist (a composer of small pieces)!! What do you think?

Written by Peter Gould from The Chopin Companion.."...But his composing career is remarkable for an almost unbroken process of development, and on reaching maturity the substance had become so intense that the musical activity contained in a relatively short work far exceeded that of large-scale works by other composers. And abundance of ideas is not necessarily ideal for extended forms; moreover, the stop-watch is no measure of the size of its piece, only its length."

Peter Gould, pianist, is Head of Music in the BBC's Music Division, London

2- Chopin, his weakness evident in orchestral writing??

Chopin knew he could best express his genius on the piano. And, no one before him, or after (in my opinion) has been as successful as he. “ As a composer and pianist, he created a style that dominated the entire half of the nineteenth century and was not substantially changed until Debussy and Prokofiev came along. It was a style that broke sharply from everything that went before it. For the first time, the piano became a total instrument: a singing instrument, an instrument of infinite color, poetry, and nuance. “ from Schoenberg’s “The Lives of the Great Composers.”

I wonder why Schoenberg included Chopin in his book?? Great composers. I guess he considered composers of “smaller pieces” capable of being “great.” Oh, also the fact that Chopin composed mostly for the piano didn’t seem to exclude him from this book either. Perhaps his two piano concertos aren't a match to Beethoven's, but I am not alone in thinking that they contain the most achingly beautiful music ever written.

The Chopin Companion: Profiles of the Man and the Musician...edited by Alan Walker is perhaps the best book I can suggest that would answer almost any question or help in discussing many topics about Chopin. Each chapter is written by a well-respected and reknown "expert."

In my opinion, yes of course he is a romantic composer.

I think MaryRose did a great job in explaining the reasoning behind Chopin’s dislike of being considered a Romantic composer. Yes, the music he composed is quite emotional, and that alone, I suppose, would qualify him as such. But he, himself, as a person and a pianist was not. He was quite reserved and detested anything outwardly crass or showy.

In my readings, I have never encountered anything that mentioned what Chopin thought of Schubert. I love Schubert. In fact, I just recorded traumerei for our next recital.

Glad you've found us...and feel free to "drop in" anytime.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978323 - 01/27/07 03:53 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bassio:
"And, maryrose, I am sorry but he just can't be number one".
Aha, but you must not rule that out. Just wait and see.... ;\)

 Quote:

1- Some people accuse Chopin of being a miniaturist (a composer of small pieces)!! What do you think?

2- Chopin, his weakness evident in orchestral writing??
Kathleen - you have given some excellent quotes there to help get us started on the questions of Chopin being a miniaturist and a poor orchestrator. Thank you!

I would add -
Miniaturist: I am not sure why being a miniaturist should be an "accusation". To have composed mainly small, intimate works and still be positioned in the very first rank of composers is an achievement in itself. It is true that the majority of Chopin's works are very short. Within their brevity he includes such depth and passion that there is more substance in fifty bars of Chopin than in 500 bars of many other composers. In addition, I would point out that he proved himself capable of writing more extended works - both at the beginning of his career and at the end (the cello sonata). But he was bold enough to decide what he wanted to do and stick to it; he knew where his genius led him, and he did not feel the need to follow traditional paths of composition.

Orchestration: I personally love the way that the orchestration of his two piano concertos serves as an exquisite framework for the brilliant, tender piano writing. After that he chose not to write much orchestral music - he had the strength of character to forge his own path and did not give in to the inappropriate persuasions of others. However it must be remembered that these concerti were composed *when he was in his late teens/only just past his 20th birthday*. I think this fact is sometimes forgotten in an attempt to belittle his orchestration.
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#978324 - 01/27/07 04:27 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Ragnhild Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1117
Loc: Norway
A little on the side again, but I will try to translate some words by a man who looked upon himself as a "miniaturist" , Edvard Grieg :

"Composers like Bach and Beethoven have built cathedrals and castles on the hills. I wanted (like Ibsen express in his last plays) to build dwellings for people, where they can feel at home and happy !"

And that might be just as important...

Thank you for the nice comments on my Nocturne-playing (it really is a sweet one), but Kathleen I will never teach playing-technique to anybody because mine is real bad.
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Trying to play the piano:
http://www.box.net/public/dbr23ll03e

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#978325 - 01/27/07 05:22 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
stephenc Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 693
Loc: Australia
A question on Chopin and his metronome.

A quote from wikipedia:

"Frédéric Chopin used a strict form of rubato in some of his pieces: the left hand was to be played at the exact tempo of the piece, while the right hand was to be played freely, with rubato."

I've read often (not just on wiki!) that the metronome never left his piano and he was very strict with himself and his students about keeping an even timing with his left hand. My question is, did he make an exception for playing certain pieces such as his nocturnes? - it seems to me that rubato must be used to give meaning to many phrases in his nocturnes (the 27-2 for example) not only in the right hand but even more so in the left and every professional recording I've heard of the 27-2, the pianist seems to let the right hand dictate the tempo at the expense of it being kept in the left. Any thoughts on this?

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#978326 - 01/27/07 05:30 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
What the wiki said is almost exactly the same as what Liszt said about Chopin's playing. Liszt admired Chopin tremendously and was fond of him in spite of their sometimes difficult friendship. Liszt famously compared Chopin's use of rubato as the wind blowing the trees. The tree limbs (the left hand) sway in strict time to the wind, the leaves (the right hand) are free to flutter as they will. Any contemporary account of Chopin's playing echoes this, and his use of the metronome.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#978327 - 01/27/07 05:37 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Ragnhild Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1117
Loc: Norway
I am not at all the right person to answer your question, Stephenc , but I have asked myself the same .

Playing the Nocturne Op 32.1 with a metronome sounds just terrible - I've tried. I have chosen to let the melodi sing and the LH follow it (If I'm completely off-beat some places it's because I'm stumbling ;\) ). The closest I come to Chopin's Nocturnes is (believe it or not..) Norwegian religous folk tunes - and they are sung with fermatas that are not in the score. I have never heard a Nocturne played with a "metronomic" beat.

I think this really is a question for Hershey....
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#978328 - 01/27/07 06:37 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ragnhild:
I think this really is a question for Hershey.... [/b]
Definitely, and about I'd also like to hear what he had to say re Chopin as Romantic composer (or not).
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#978329 - 01/27/07 07:04 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
What interesting topics we are indulging in today! I have often thought about rubato in the performance of Chopin. I believe he used a lot less than we'd imagine. We have become used to rubato in certain places - in the Nocturnes mentioned for example - until they sound "wrong" without. I am quite sure that there was NOTHING mechanical about Chopin's playing. I would think his metronome was mainly for the use of pupils. It's sometimes easy to lay on thick rubato in an attempt to sound more "emotional". It takes very subtle skills to make some of his works as effective with less rubato, and with rubato only in the right hand.

If you listen to the delicate playing of Angela Lear, for example, she is very frugal indeed with rubato and you can often hear her using it in the RH but not the left. She is a great Chopin scholar. And no, she's not my sister and I don't actually know her - I just happen to believe in her as she has devoted her life to the study of Chopin's original manuscripts etc ;-)
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#978330 - 01/27/07 07:59 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
stephenc Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 693
Loc: Australia
thats a very nice analogy from Liszt that you've mentioned Frycek, it certainly helps to visualise his playing. Like Nancy metioned, i've also tried playing what I know of a couple of his nocturnes and it is terribly difficult to give them structure that Chopin would surely have intended.
That said, I think what maryrose said is a good point "It takes very subtle skills to make some of his works as effective with less rubato, and with rubato only in the right hand". Maybe if I was a more advanced pianist it wouldn't seem so impossible to play Chopin in strict time but still be expressive. Thanks also for the tip on Angela Lear maryrose - she has some wonderful samples on her website ( http://www.angelalear.co.uk/ ) to listen to, yet another wonderful pianist that is devoted to Chopin to enjoy! Do you have some of her CD's - i noticed in some of her samples she adds some improvisation which I hear Chopin was famous for "he never played the same piece the same way twice".

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#978331 - 01/28/07 09:41 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Yikes, playing Chopin with a metronome!! That's akin to putting mustard on a hot fudge sundae.

Seriously, it's all I can do to drag out this little black monster, when doing Hanon. And only then for a minute or so to get the tempo in my head. Then I shut it off and hide it in the bench. And the only reason I'm doing Hanon at this stage of my life is that I know I have to strengthen my left hand, especially fingers 4/5.

Chopin was very adamant that his students learn all the basics. Theory, scales, chords and correct tempi, etc. But I don't think he spent much time with them teaching this. I believe he might have expected them to practice the aforementioned on their own.

Please don't get me wrong. \:\) I do think that learning to play Chopin (or any composer) in the manner in which the composer intended (if we can figure that out) is important. But, I do love knowing that "Chopin never played the same piece the same way twice." Who does? Who can?

I think we can drive ourselves a little crazy in our attempt to play "it" just right. Just right, according to whom or what??

How many times have we discussed the different transcriptions out there? How some publishers/relatives/friends would insert or even erase certain notes and put in all kinds of markings, like pedaling or phrasing, etc. We know Bach never put one single marking in all of his music. Yet many argue on how he is to be played? Based on what? I onced listened to Glenn Gould play Bach's wonderful Prelude in C. Was this man in his right mind?? Yes, supposedly. And many think he was a genius. How could I argue with his interpretation? We all hear it differently. And his way was CERTAINLY different.

And Chopin didn't exactly fill his music with all kinds of "directions and instructions." Maybe, just maybe...he expected us to use our common sense and knowledge of music, in general, and then play his music, putting "our soul into it." I believe I also read that he said something like, play it the way you feel it.

My Gosh, I never pay attention to the pedal markings on his music. I just use my inner voice on when "I" think I should use it. When the music starts sounding muddy, I take my foot off the pedal.

What all this is leading up to...and I do have a point here, really. If you are a serious student of the piano or if you plan on making a career on the concert stage, then, yes, of course, you MUST play the music as written, using your own individual inner voice to add your personal touch to the piece. The critics will eat you alive if you don't.

However, if you are like me (Lord, I hope you're not), a senior who just wants to play Chopin the way she hears him (perhaps from all the Rubinstein recordings I've listened to), then all the fuss about using the "original" transcription, pedaling, markings, rubato and the rest really doesn't matter much.

Again, I am, in no way, minimizing the importance of respecting the composer and doing your very best to do justice to his music. I'm just saying that, depending on your goals...(and your age!!), shortcuts and lots of leaway are permissible. \:D

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978332 - 01/28/07 12:58 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Ragnhild Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1117
Loc: Norway
Originally posted by Kathleen:
 Quote:
However, if you are like me (Lord, I hope you're not), a senior who just wants to play Chopin the way she hears him (perhaps from all the Rubinstein recordings I've listened to), then all the fuss about using the "original" transcription, pedaling, markings, rubato and the rest really doesn't matter much[/b]
:D
I'm afraid I am - more or less - like you, I mean.
I think you have just spelled out the privilege of being an amateur (In the true meaning of the word amateur "someone who loves it" )

But I'd still like an opinion from Hershey who might have a different view...

Ragnhild
_________________________
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#978333 - 01/28/07 03:09 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Bassio Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 2480
Loc: Alexandria, Egypt
Issue of Chopin the miniaturist:
IMO Chopin composed a lot of small pieces, but the emotion in these pieces suffice to make many of them masterpieces of the instrument. Plus his ability to condense the emotion into smaller more concise pieces makes him more of a genius imo. Rachmaninoff himself believed that and pointed to that as he went towards brevity in his later works.

Besides, we must not forget that he composed 3 sonatas and 2 piano concertos, here are really long pieces. 2 of the sonatas plus the concertos are a staple in the repertoire. No more evidence needed. So I guess this issue is solved! ;\)

Issue of Chopin's weak orchestral writing:
Very interesting the remark about that he composed these in his youth, I almost forgot that. But I have to say that the orchestral parts are directly influenced (DIRECTLY) by Mozart's. I am not sure, but this is my opinion, I always had that impression. And once the piano enters, you now know who's the composer! ;\) So yes the orchestral parts are weaker than the piano parts, but SO WHAT!!?? They are perfectly suitable for these concertos to my ears.
But again, I prefer a version of Rubinstein playing the 2nd piano concerto where a very small portion of the orchestral part is cut!! Strange!! (do you know this part?)

Even if it suits his concertos and even I like them very much BUT the fact that they much weaker than the piano part gives someone the chance to admit that Chopin may had some weakness in orchestral writing. Come on, we must not deny. ;\)

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#978334 - 01/28/07 03:14 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Bassio Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 2480
Loc: Alexandria, Egypt
 Quote:
Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:

a senior who just wants to play Chopin the way she hears him (perhaps from all the Rubinstein recordings I've listened to), then all the fuss about using the "original" transcription, pedaling, markings, rubato and the rest really doesn't matter much.
[/b]
I am just like you Kathleen (except the fact of the "senior" ;\) )

I don't remember the last time I really paid much attention to these things. I know I should be watching them with attention but the fact that I am an 'amateur' who had no harsh formal training and competitions and recitals and criticism and things like that, led to the fact that "play it as you hear it, how you feel it"

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#978335 - 01/28/07 04:25 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Thank you, Ragnhild and Bassio...now I know I'm in good company. ;\)

I remember telling this little story once before. Josef Hofmann, considered by many to be THE pianist of this time, had Anton Rubinstein as a teacher.

Once, Josef asked Rubinstein: "How do I play this?"

The master answered angrily, "With your nose, I DON'T CARE!" \:D

And as to discussion about Chopin's lack of ability to "write" for the orchestra. As we mentioned, he was little more than a teen when he composed his two concertos. Who knows what he could have composed, later on, perhaps in 10 years...if he had chosen to. The fact that he choose not to, does not mean that he couldn't. I believe he was capable of doing anything, if he wanted to.

Yes, we certainly need Hersh's opinion here.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978336 - 01/28/07 04:33 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bassio:
Even if it suits his concertos and even I like them very much BUT the fact that they much weaker than the piano part gives someone the chance to admit that Chopin may had some weakness in orchestral writing. Come on, we must not deny. ;\) [/b]
Then again, it's possible he just couldn't be bothered. The concerti were literally homework assignments. He once told one of his students that one shouldn't use what was heard in the concert hall as the standard for musical accomplishment.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#978337 - 01/28/07 08:31 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
stephenc Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 693
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:
My Gosh, I never pay attention to the pedal markings on his music. I just use my inner voice on when "I" think I should use it. When the music starts sounding muddy, I take my foot off the pedal.


Kathleen [/b]

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#978338 - 01/28/07 08:33 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
stephenc Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 693
Loc: Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:
......My Gosh, I never pay attention to the pedal markings on his music. I just use my inner voice on when "I" think I should use it. When the music starts sounding muddy, I take my foot off the pedal.


Kathleen [/b]
Excellent post Kathleen!! I agree 100% ...There are pedal markings in Chopin's music??..!! \:D

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#978339 - 01/28/07 09:34 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Yes, there are.

At least in the music I have. What's so strange is that Chopin very often agrees with me. \:D

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978340 - 01/28/07 09:56 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
There's "ped" written in every so small and neatly all over his manuscripts.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#978341 - 01/28/07 10:01 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Hi Hersh:

We have a "Class Photo Album" \:D here on the forum and I would love to post one (or more) of your pictures...with your permission of course. Basically, it's just a way for all of us to connect a name to a face, and it's just a fun thing we do. :p

We'll understand if you'd rather not. But if it's OK, I have 3 that are super. \:\) Of course, of you as M. Chopin. One at the piano and the other of you standing on the stage. And, one of you as George Gershwin. Any or all 3..whichever you'd like (or not. )

Any of them will "knock the socks off" of everyone here on the forum. To think...Chopin as a member of the Piano Forum!!

Just in case you're interested in knowing what we look like (we...as in those of us who do most of the "hanging out" on the forum), here we are. We're on the first half of the page. The last half are pictures of other forumites...not necessarily devoted to Chopin, but pretty good people, just the same. \:D

Chopin Devotees...with family/friends and pets!!

Thanks,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978342 - 01/28/07 10:04 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by Frycek:
There's "ped" written in every so small and neatly all over his manuscripts. [/b]
But as Chopin's piano was actually a lot less resonant than pianos today, his pedal markings might not be appropriate for modern conditions. I agree with Kathleen that one really needs to listen to the sound one is producing, and pedal accordingly.
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#978343 - 01/28/07 10:08 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Gee...you mean I could be right in doing what I have been doing?

I'm shocked because, truthfully, I've always felt a little guilty about "doing my own thing."

Thanks MaryRose. You made my day!! \:\) \:\)

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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