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#978374 - 01/31/07 04:24 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Hershey88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 149
Loc: France
Maryrose...

Interesting about Beethoven, and Delacroix's observation. It's what makes Beethoven so remarkably human to me... the choral movement - a hymn unto mankind... and now... let's have a turkish march... but I adore that. Many have viewed it as a failing. And I can only imagine in Chopin's and Delacroix's time - striving for perfection in Art and expression, that not only would such an example (and many others like it) seem needy, sloppy, lazy, unfinished, pandering.. etc. but it would reflect the inability of the artist to maintain the level of godliness... and as I am now exploring Beethoven's character, it's one of the things that I adore about him... the combination of the sublime and the banal, side by side - just like life.

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#978375 - 01/31/07 09:43 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Hi Hersh: What an undertaking on the 5th concerto! We would love to hear you play it when you feel it's "yours." \:\)

Beethoven is my seond favorite composer. I've read a couple of his bios and found him more complicated and interesting than even our "hero." His range was phenomenal. I have a funny true story.

I treated my sister a few years ago to hear his 9th. Of course, everyone looks forward to the last movement. But I was enchanted by the first 4 notes of the second. I turned to my sister to whisper to her how exquisite it was, and she was sleeping. Not only that...snoring!!

But then I once attended a performance of Chopin's E minor concerto. During the Romance section, the man next to me was actually sobbing! : Luckily, I had a few tissues to hand him. Perhaps his wife had died recently. Who knows? But I know he was Polish because he said thank you in Polish.

Isn't it strange how music affects (or doesn't, for that matter), people.

Everyone loves the movie "Immortal Beloved." How much of it rings true?? In your opinion, Hersh.

Now off to the library and a piano lesson. It's -15 degrees here with the wind factor, and my little Bischon loves this weather. I can't get her in and have to run around the back way chasing her.

to all,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978376 - 01/31/07 05:03 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
ooopppsssss!
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978377 - 01/31/07 06:08 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
Do any of you play duets? I did at school, but never since. Chopin enjoyed duets from time to time. What an honour it must have been to have played alongside him! Perhaps the most formidable occasion would have been when he accompanied the young Filtsch in his own concerto, with Chopin playing the orchestral part on a second piano.

He also liked to play duets with one of his pupils, Countess Elise Petruzzi, who was good at sight-reading and improvisation. Sometimes they would sit at the keyboard and improvise dialogue at the piano in the form of musical questions and answers. I wonder what those questions were...
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#978378 - 01/31/07 07:26 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
That sounds so charming \:\) ...the question and answer part.

As far as what the questions might have been...that just might be an interesting discussion topic.

If you (anyone) and Chopin were performing such a duet, what would your question be to Chopin and what to you think he might answer. (Of course, this is being done musically, but use your imagination and see what you can come up with, verbally.)

I would "ask" Chopin: "Are you happy today, sir?"

He would answer: "Yes, because I am enjoying our lesson so much." ;\)

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978379 - 01/31/07 07:27 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Young Chopin also sometimes played duets with his sister Ludwicka, and his friend Tytus.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#978380 - 01/31/07 08:25 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
And, we all know, of course...that when he played them with Liszt, he always insisted on playing the bass.

I know I read why once, but I can't seem to remember. I think it was because the bass had more to it (normally) that the treble. And he didn't want Liszt drowining him out (as he could/would probably do, when given the chance.) \:D

MR: The only time I've play a duet is when playing Chopsticks or Heart And Soul. I think I would have a real problem playing any now. I have my "own" sense of tempo, pretty much like my own sense of pedaling, etc.

However, it certainly be an excellent idea if I could find someone with whom to play. It would do alot to tighten up my playing.

I know chamber music is excellent for that, but yawn...that kind of music is so BORING!

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978381 - 01/31/07 09:00 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
dannylux Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 1815
Loc: Connecticut
When Chopin was in Vienna, he played duets with Beethoven's favorite student and Liszt's teacher, Carl Czerny.

Many people aren't familiar with Czerny's wonderful compositions, other than his Studies.

His Grande Sonate Brillante in C minor, for piano 4 hands is an absolutely gorgeous masterpiece.

Didn't Chopin also play duets with Alkan, his good friend and next door neighbor in Paris?

Mel
_________________________
My Recordings

"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get — only what you are expecting to give — which is everything. What you will receive in return varies. But it really has no connection with what you give. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn

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#978382 - 02/01/07 02:51 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Hershey88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 149
Loc: France
RE: Musical "question and answer"

I think that this is probably, the traditional notion of question and answer in the music itself...as in a Bach Fugue...or to simplify, play just above middle C, - E,D,E,F,G - and then with the left hand in the bass, the answer... E,F,E,D,C.

Chopin also played duets with Solange, and as Sand played as well, I can only imagine he played with her too, I have a copy of one of her early manuscripts for musical study. Music and musical education was so important to everyone.

Kathleen re: Immortal Beloved... I enjoyed it... it's a lovely fantasy, and wonderfully shmaltzy. True? Not when it comes to any verifiable knowledge we have.. but so what. It's a movie - an entertainment, which is meant to entertain, and for me, it did that.

Oh, and as it turns out, I heard from the Polish Ambassador's office. Indeed, M. Chopin will give a command performance at the Embassy the last weekened of April.

\:\)

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#978383 - 02/01/07 03:48 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Ragnhild Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1117
Loc: Norway
Maryrose:
I have played some very simple duets just for practicing with my daughter - it is at least double the fun of playing alone...

At last years christmas concert Mr Andsnes and his sister played a Mozart-sonata together - It was really strange to watch because they looked like twins or copys - they had the almost exactly thesame "body language"...
(oops, I had promised myself not to mention him again...)

I'm still looking for the "man in my life" to come and play duets with me ....I guess he will never turn up, as he probably does not exist \:\(

Apart from that I agree with Kathleen - you are great people - love you all (and Beethoven..)!


Hey, I forgot one thing I don't agree with everything, Kathleen:
 Quote:
I know chamber music is excellent for that, but yawn...that kind of music is so BORING! [/b]
How can you say that - chamber music is NOT AT ALL BORING - my problem when I hear it is that I feel so jealous of the musicians..

And congratulations to Mr Chopin !

Ragnhild
_________________________
Trying to play the piano:
http://www.box.net/public/dbr23ll03e

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#978384 - 02/01/07 05:30 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
Chopin's choice of playing the lower part: with Liszt, probably because he thought the latter would outshine him (which of course, Kathleen and I know for a FACT would not be true ;\) ).

On other occasions: because it is the less glamorous part, and he was very courteous.

JMHO.
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#978385 - 02/01/07 05:32 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ragnhild:
I'm still looking for the "man in my life" to come and play duets with me ....I guess he will never turn up, as he probably does not exist \:\(

[/b]
Oh but Ragnhild, he does exist. And he will turn up. The thing is, he will only do so when you have stopped looking and you least expect it. I feel quite sure of that. \:\)
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#978386 - 02/01/07 07:16 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
 Quote:
Originally posted by Hershey88:
Oh, and as it turns out, I heard from the Polish Ambassador's office. Indeed, M. Chopin will give a command performance at the Embassy the last weekened of April.
\:\)



Will you do anything special in the performance for the ocassion? Will there be a "salon"? Will you speak Polish?
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#978387 - 02/01/07 08:13 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Wow! Hersh...we COULD NOT be happier for you. What a wonderful honor.

Here we are...doing the dance of joy (or a mazurka...if you prefer).


Here's a picture of the salon in which you will be playing.



You had better take a lot of pictures, or we will all fly to Paris...and, well, it won't be pretty! \:D

Seriously, Chopin, himself, would be so proud of you! Why...he's even smiling!!


Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978388 - 02/01/07 08:21 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
What a glittering venue for Hershey. Thanks for posting the pic, Kasha, it's nice to be able to "imagine" it all happening from this far distant outpost of Chopindom...

I'll have to see if I can take a pic of the salon of the Polish Institute where I regularly enjoy Chopin recitals. It is nothing like as grand as this, but handsome in its own way, well-proportioned and surrounded by Polish flags and mementoes.
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#978389 - 02/01/07 09:16 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Hershey88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 149
Loc: France
But who said that none of you would receive an invitation??? That's the benefit of being such a 'star' (he rolls his eyes...) I can make demands, you know.

So, I'll get a few places... but only a few. Who is going to come? (Am I REALLY doing this on a public board? Oh heck - it's music and art, not um - global warming or something...)

But really - it will be a salon style performance of the entire play, as opposed to the big production which is much grander... this year alone we have: South Korea in May, Los Angeles in August, Tuscon, Phoenix, Mesa, September October, then Cleveland, then god knows where else...

Anyway - the Polish Embassy of course is in DC. Just a hop skip and a jump, n'est-ce-pas?

PS - I am getting around to all the pictures, maybe some later this aft - Beethoven is swamping me - which is a good thing, really... \:\)

H

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#978390 - 02/01/07 09:28 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Ragnhild Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1117
Loc: Norway
Hershey, now you are relly becoming my hero...

I have always admired musicians, but generousity has usually not been among their most typical virtues....

Of quite obvious reasons I will not be able to come to US - but I'll certainly be there in my mind !
\:\)


Ragnhild
_________________________
Trying to play the piano:
http://www.box.net/public/dbr23ll03e

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#978391 - 02/01/07 09:31 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Here he's smiling.


And Hershey, what do you think about these two?

And odd one with a fur collar:



And this damaged one of doubtful provenance (found in a dumpster) that went for $700 on ebay this fall.

No, that's not a minnow he's displaying in his right hand. It's just a tear in the canvas.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#978392 - 02/01/07 09:39 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Hersh: If you do get a few tickets and have one or two left over, I am certain that I (for one) and perhaps Frycek would fall over ourselves, getting our plane tickets...like right NOW! \:D \:D

However, with all the friends I know you have and family, of course, we will certainly understand if these tickets are eaten up quickly.

But thank you so much for thinking of us. :3hearts:

Just think, the cherry trees should be in blossom. \:\)

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978393 - 02/01/07 09:47 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Frycek: The reason why that portrait was found in a dumpster is because it is not Chopin. :rolleyes:

And I love that moving cartoon you posted.

Ragnhild: I'm sorry that I don't care for chamber music because I know you love it so.

I've tried, really. It just seems so "formless" to me. I know I'm wrong, but what can I say.

Hersh: When I was 16 (God, a lifetime ago), I actually walked up the Washington Monument. I don't think I'd get past the few 10 steps now.

And, of all the memorable moments in my life...standing in front of the Lincoln Memorial at night, all by myself. Even now, 50 years later, I still get shivers. What a mind-blowing experience that was.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978394 - 02/01/07 10:34 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:
"I don't care for chamber music"
[/b]
Not even Chopin's chamber music????? \:\)
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#978395 - 02/01/07 10:43 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
gmm1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1674
Loc: Spokane WA
Kathleen, I am with you on chamber music, but in my case, I admit it's because I am not a sophisticated listener.

I remember just hating Bach. I would listen to Vergil Fox, and it was all just noise (I know, a bad choice for a beginner to listen to Fox....).

Then, I learned some Bach pieces on classical guitar and just loved them. So, I went back to Fox's records (yes, records....I am very old) and listened to his version of some pieces I had learned on guitar. I was able to "hear" the melodies play out because I knew them. And Fox became one of my heros.

So, I assume that if I took the time to learn how to listen, I would most likely change my opinion on chamber music.

But right now, it's not enjoyable. I just do not want to work at it (yet...).
_________________________
"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro

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#978396 - 02/01/07 12:21 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Piano Again Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1162
Loc: Washington metro
 Quote:
Originally posted by Hershey88:
But who said that none of you would receive an invitation??? That's the benefit of being such a 'star' (he rolls his eyes...) I can make demands, you know.

So, I'll get a few places... but only a few. Who is going to come? (Am I REALLY doing this on a public board? Oh heck - it's music and art, not um - global warming or something...)

But really - it will be a salon style performance of the entire play, as opposed to the big production which is much grander... this year alone we have: South Korea in May, Los Angeles in August, Tuscon, Phoenix, Mesa, September October, then Cleveland, then god knows where else...

Anyway - the Polish Embassy of course is in DC. Just a hop skip and a jump, n'est-ce-pas?

PS - I am getting around to all the pictures, maybe some later this aft - Beethoven is swamping me - which is a good thing, really... \:\)

H [/b]
I live very close to DC ...
_________________________
Recovering cellist, amateur pianist.


Check out my blog !


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#978397 - 02/01/07 12:23 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Piano Again Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1162
Loc: Washington metro
 Quote:
Originally posted by maryrose:
 Quote:
Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:
"I don't care for chamber music"
[/b]
Not even Chopin's chamber music????? \:\) [/b]
Not even Schubert? Beethoven string quartets? Brahms?
_________________________
Recovering cellist, amateur pianist.


Check out my blog !


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#978398 - 02/01/07 02:12 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Oh Boy, now I've done it.

I admit I did not give chamber music much of a chance (nor Bach for that matter, I do play his little C M prelude, but that's it).

As gmm1 said and I most certainly admit, I am NOT a very sophisticated listener.

Now I know you do NOT mean sophsicated in the true meaning of the word. This is the definition, according to Webster.

1: to alter deceptively; especially, ADULTERATE
2 : to deprive of genuineness, naturalness, or simplicity; especially : to deprive of na*vet* and make worldly-wise : DISILLUSION
3 : to make complicated or complex

What's the opposite...I guess that would be me. Naive :p .

I have had so MANY people tell me that I am really missing a lot if I don't give Bach, Mozart and chamber music a try. So I promise I will. I am going to start with some of Chopin's lesser known pieces. One is called Variations in D major for piano duet.

Thank you all. I do appreciate your taking the time to try to knock some sense into my thick skull. I hope all your efforts are not in vain. ;\)

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978399 - 02/01/07 02:15 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
And I have very dear friends in Phoenix, Hersh, who I know would put me up for a few days.

But please don't tell me that you are going there in August!!

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978400 - 02/01/07 02:15 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
double post
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#978401 - 02/01/07 02:23 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
gmm1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1674
Loc: Spokane WA
Turns out I am not a "sophisticated" user of the english language either.

I had no idea thats what sophisticated means.

OK, thats it.... no more big words.
_________________________
"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro

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#978402 - 02/01/07 02:27 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:
I am going to start with some of Chopin's lesser known pieces. One is called Variations in D major for piano duet.

[/b]
He he, that's cheating! That's not chamber music! It's PIANO music.

But you shouldn't feel forced to listen to chamber music. I certainly wouldn't allow myself to be forced to listen to Wagner \:D
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#978403 - 02/01/07 02:31 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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