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Oooopppps...I did it again. I read something into a statement that was not there.


Elene: You are correct. The sentence meant, as you indicated, that Sand wrote some very "intimate and touching" observations about Chopiin. Here is one, from the same book.

"His creation was spontaneous and miraculous....He found it without seeking it, without forseeing it. It came suddenly, complete and sublime, singing in his head during a walk But then the most heart-rending labor I ever saw, a series of efforts, or irresolutions and frettings to seize again certain details of the theme he had heard. He shut himself up in his room for whole days, weeping, walking, breaking his pens, repeating a bar a hundred times..."

This is a most initimate description of just how Chopin "honed" his craft. And it most certainly reminds us that although he was a genius, he had to work at it. And it might be helpful to remember this as we, ourselves, labor and fret at the keyboard. Nothing really worthwhile comes easily (at least for most).

Frycek: Do you remember that it is just a year ago that we were in D.C., watching Hershey perform as M. Chopin? I will always think of that "adventure" as such a memorable time.

Kathleen

The quote from Sand, describing Chopin’s creative process, comes from her “Histoire de ma vie” (Story of My Life). I thought you all might be interested in some other material from this chapter, before and after the quote Kathleen posted. (I already had it in my computer.) This comes from:

Story of My Life: The Autobiography of George Sand
A Group Translation
Edited by Thelma Jurgrau
SUNY Series, Women Writers in Translation
1991, State University of New York Press, Albany 1184 pp

One must remember that “Histoire de ma vie” is largely a work of fiction. It is difficult to know exactly what parts to believe. Some of what she says rings true, some is patently and obviously false, and some, I’m afraid, I just can’t say. Much of the following does ring true to me.

“Chopin always wanted Nohant, but could never tolerate Nohant. [a description of his behavior at salons and his comedy act follows]
“All these expressions drawn from himself—sublime, delightful, or bizarre—made him the center of elite gatherings, where they literally fought over him. His noble character, his disinterestedness, his pride, his enlightened arrogance—enemy of all crass vanity and insolent boasting—the sureness of his dealings with people, and the exquisite delicacy of his savoir vivre made him a friend as genuine as he was agreeable.
“To tear Chopin away from such a life, to engage him in a simple, changeless, constantly creative existence, he who had grown up in the lap of royalty, would have been to deprive him of what gave him fervor—an artificial fervor, it is true, for like a painted lady, he shed his power and animation when he returned home at night and gave himself over to fever and insomnia—but a life, though perhaps shorter, that would have been more lively than one of retreat and intimacy, limited to the unvarying circle of a single family. In Paris, he moved through several circles each day, or at least he chose a different one as his milieu each evening. Hence, he had twenty or thirty salons, in turn, to charm and enliven by his presence.”

“Nohant had become antipathetic to him. He was still briefly elated on his return in the spring, but as soon as he set to work, everything around him turned gloomy. His creativity was spontaneous, miraculous; he found it without seeking it, without expecting it. It arrived at his piano suddenly, completely, sublimely, or it sang in his head during a walk, and he would hasten to hear it again by recreating it on his instrument. But then would begin the most heartbreaking labor I have ever witnessed. It was a series of efforts, indecision, and impatience to recapture certain details of the theme he had heard. What had come to him all of a piece, he now over-analyzed in his desire to transcribe it, and his regret at not finding it again “neat,” as he said, threw him into despair. He would shut himself up in his room for days at a time, weeping, pacing, breaking his pens, repeating or changing a single measure a hundred times, writing it and erasing it with equal frequency, and beginning again the next day with desperate perseverance. He would spend six weeks on a page, only to end up writing it just as he had done in his first outpouring.
“For a long time, I had had enough influence over him to make him trust his first burst of inspiration. But when he was no longer inclined to believe me, he reproached me gently for having spoiled him and for not having been exacting enough with him. I tried to distract him, to take him on walks. Sometimes, taking my whole brood in a country wagon, I would tear him away from his agony in spite of himself. I would lead him to the banks of the Creuse, and after two or three days, lost in the sun or the rain, on awful roads, we would arrive, laughing and famished, at some magnificent sight, where he seemed to find rebirth. The fatigue broke him the first day, but he slept! The last day, returning to Nohant, he would be completely restored and rejuvenated, and he would find the solution to his work without too much effort. But it was not always possible to convince him to leave his piano, which was more often a torment than a joy to him, and little by little he began to show his temper when I disturbed him. I didn’t dare insist. Chopin was terrifying when angry, and when, as with me, he contained himself, he looked ready to suffocate and die.”

This enigmatic statement is interesting: “Chopin realized his power and his weakness. His weakness was in the excess of that very power, when he could not control it.”

And this I cannot possibly argue with: “Why didn’t some series of events outside us separate us from one another before the eighth year!”

Elene

Thanks for posting that, Elene. I have severe doubts about the quality of the translation though. I can't believe GS meant 'enlightened arrogance' although the image of him dazzling the salons then returning home exhausted and ill rings true.

Thank you also, Elene.

I do agree with MaryRose athough her knowledge of the validity of this translation is certainly more enlightened than mine. I am only going by my "bootstraps," so to speak. By that I mean from what I have read about Chopin from so many sources, primary and secondary, I have engraved in my mind a very specific "picture" of Chopin's personality. I really don't know what "enlightened arrogance" means. But somehow I cannot ascribe it to Chopin. That he could be arrogant...yes. But this was but a facade that he would hide behind.

I once read (and I am paraphrasing again) that he had that power to make others do his bidding without his even asking. People actually fell (figuratively) at his feet to make him comfortable and happy. Do they call this "passive-aggressive" now?

I also agree with Elene that it was unfortunate that the fates did not separate them before that eighth year.

Kathleen

I think they call it charisma.

Ah yes. Chopin's charisma...sounds like a great title for a book.

Kathleen

I was bothered by the term "enlightened arrogance," too. If I could have found "Histoire de ma vie" in French, I would have bought that, as I am very interested in exactly what the lady wrote, not what the translators made of it. Of course, then I still might not understand the connotations or subtleties of the French.

The University of New Mexico Library used to have the French version, but alas, no longer.

Chopin may well have appeared to have a certain arrogance-- related to his extremely high standards?-- but one of the things I find so endearing about him is that he is so unimpressed with himself. He seems not to notice his own greatness. I don't know if he truly "realized his power."

It does seem that people fell all over themselves to be of service to our friend, and in my opinion, over-helped and overprotected him at times. There was something about him that compelled people to want to take care of him, and I have been amused to see how so many people still feel that way, even though he is far from needing to be taken care of now.

That part wasn't passive-aggressive. Passive-aggressiveness was when he sulked in his room for days instead of telling Mme Sand off and getting it over with, or explaining what he was upset about. But I think that was because he didn't know how to say what was wrong, maybe didn't understand it himself at the time, or because it was a Thing That We Do Not Speak Of, or because he didn't want to say something unnecessarily hurtful.

Or because he typically thought that if he waited long enough, things would work out on their own.

"Chopin's Charisma" wouldn't be a bad title. Certainly better than "Chopin's Funeral."

Elene

Greetings to fellow Chopaholics—old regulars and new names alike! I've been away from the PW forums for months. I don't know when I'll get around to catching up on what I've missed in this thread, so I'll take a chance that the topic of this post hasn't already been mentioned here.

Since IMSLP has been offline and I've endured consequent "SMWS" (sheet music withdrawal syndrome!), I've been interested in exploring other repositories of piano scores in the public domain. I love obscure stuff, especially from the 19th century—and there's a wealth of it at the Henselt Library . Thanks again to dannylux for being the first to post at PW (to my knowledge) about this spectacular trove.

The piano transcriptions by Hummel of Mozart's symphonies and piano concertos, and those by Kalkbrenner of Beethoven's symphonies, are here, as well as tons of original works by Czerny, Henselt, Hiller, Hummel, Kalkbrenner, Moscheles, Thalberg and many others. Of immediate interest to Chopin lovers are two of his most obscure compositions (the Album Leaf and the Galop Marquis) and a number of little-known arrangements/transcriptions by other composers, viz.:

• Czerny: Introduction and Polonaise Op. 3 arranged for solo piano
• Kalkbrenner: Variations Brillantes on Mazurka Op. 7 No. 1
• Kirchner: 10 Songs transcribed for solo piano (Maiden's Wish, Bacchanal, What a Young Maiden Loves, My Sweetheart, Two Corpses, Trooper Before the Battle, My Delights, Melancholy, The Little Ring, Lithuanian Song)
• Liszt: Variants for the Finale of Sonata Op. 58
• Jean-Amédée Méreaux: Grand Fantaisie on Mazurka Op. 24 No. 3
• Tausig: Reorchestration of Concerto Op. 11
• Count Geza Zichy: Polonaise Op. 40 No. 1 ("Militaire") for left-hand alone

I won't presume to make any judgments concerning the musical merit or tastefulness of any of these items; I merely offer them as inherently interesting to Chopin lovers and therefore germane to the Devoted thread, if not the conversation at hand. Enjoy, and please forgive the intrusion!

Steven

It's lovely to see you back, dear Sotto Voce! I have to admit, though, that the Galop Marquis is about the only work by Chopin that I truly cannot stand.

Dearest Steven:

I can only echo MR's sentiments and say it is truly super to have you back among us. I've thought of you often and hoped you were doing well. Not only have we missed you but also your eloquent prose.

As ever,
Kathleen

Kathleen - to be fair to the wretched Galop, Chopin never meant it to see the light of day. He would be mortified that it is being heard and discussed now - I wonder if he wrote it as a joke?

BTW isn't it your 45th wedding anniversary soon? How is Mr Kathleen keeping these days?

Maybe it was a Liszt parody?

I don't care for Chopin's Galop either, and wonder if there's something inherently homely about that particular genre. I guess it's all in the ear of the beholder, but I wonder if any composer managed to write an attractive Galop. Even the visual image of a dance form based on galloping, stylized or not, isn't very appealing.

And MR's statement echoes how I feel about Liszt's Grand Galop Chromatique! It would be funny if Chopin felt the same way and his essay in this form were satire, but I have a hunch that the composition date of Chopin's would make this unlikely. (I could be wrong, but it sure looks like an item of juvenilia.)

If anyone gets around to having a look at out the transcriptions I listed, I'd be interested in your reactions. I haven't printed any of them out, but I have a few observations to share from glancing through them online:

• Kalkbrenner's and Méreaux's pieces are both quite extended takes on two of Chopin's most popular Mazurkas, complete with introductions and finales to bookend the theme-and-variations format. I wonder if they were well-received recital pieces once upon a time when fantasia-style paraphrases were more popular.
• Tausig's reworking of the Concerto in e minor surprised me, as I hadn't quite comprehended that he did, indeed, reorchestrate the entire piece! I knew that he altered the closing of the first movement to end with a bravura octave passage by the soloist (there's a footnote to that effect in my score published by Schirmer), but the changes go considerably beyond that.
• The variant by Liszt on a portion of the finale of Chopin's Sonata Op. 58 (not "Variants" as in my original post) is actually a single extended ossia for bars 207 through 253—the musical climax of this movement. Liszt does something quite striking here starting at measure 246: The pattern of the figuration in these peak measures changes abruptly to repeated chords like those in the climactic passages near the ends of Ballade Op. 47 and the Polonaise-Fantaisie.

Isn't it curious that Liszt, in his own arrangement of Chopin's music, would choose here to incorporate a device that seems to be borrowed from Chopin's own oeuvre rather than something, well, more spectacularly Lisztian?

I don't know how Liszt's climactic chords would sound in performance, but they seem on paper to disrupt the momentum—at precisely the wrong moment—of Chopin's galloping rhythm that drives the main theme throughout this vigorous and exciting finale.

Oops—maybe "galloping" isn't the right word. :p

Steven

p.s. Thanks for the hearty rewelcome.

MaryRose: Is there nothing that escapes your thoughtful and all-encompassing mind?

(I laugh every time I think of that post you wrote when we were in Washington about Hershey and I having some kind of romantic tryst. Of course at the time I was embarassed to the point of hysteria [ask Frycek]. Isn't it wonderful how we can see the humor in things after the passage of time? I recall saying to Frycek that you were a "little devil." A sweet and talented one, but still a devil.)

Yes, Mr. Kathleen and I will be celebrating our 45th in a few days. I will have to shame him because he always forgets, and now I can tell him that even a dear friend on my precious ABF remembered. He is doing very well and feels just fine. No need for dialysis yet, and we will find out tomorrow if he has to go back on chemo. It is a 2 month on and 2 month off thing, and he suffers no ill effects. He watches TV for 4 hours and even gets a nice lunch. So....Thank you, dear heart, for your kindness.

Yes, I probably would agree that Chopin would turn red with shame if he knew his Galop was still out there. We are all allowed a few real whoppers in life...even geniuses.

Steven: Wow...now you know why we missed you! You always give us so much to delve into and to ponder. I do not have the time now to give justice to your post, but I promise I will later in the day. Once again...so good to have you back.

My best to all on this beautiful spring day,
Kathleen

Hey, Frycek and Sotto Voce, you might be onto something because Liszt's work dates from 1838 and Chopin wrote his Galop in 1846.

Well, that is good news indeed, Kathleen. I was quite afraid to ask how Glen's getting on but now I am glad I did. I hope you both have a really good day on your anniversary (after you have reminded him!)

Kathleen

Kathleen,
Here's wishing you and Mr. loveschopintoomuch a very very happy anniversary, plus many more to come!! May you have the most delightful Spring day and lots of Chopin music!!

Happy Anniversary Kathleen and Glenn, and hopefully many more.

I am lucky then that I am passing by today to wish Kathleen and Glenn a happy anniversary.

By the way, I asked a question that got lost somewhere .. what are your favorite renditions of Sonata No.3?

By the way, anyone knows why Chopin did not have many photos of him taken, like Liszt? We only have one photo!!

Which one, the older or the newer one? I do not have an affinity with the new one, although it comes highly recommended, but the old one is safe. I reviewed it here .
But ( the new one ) is a new and innovative approach so everyone is entitled to give it a listen just for the freshness.