Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Just for those totally devoted to Chopin

Please, Elene, accept my sincere apology for not including you in the "knowledgeable" group. Obviously, you are quite an expert on Chopin, and I made an egregious error by leaving you out.

Again, I apologize.

Kathleen

Crikey, I didn't know about the accent. Are you suggesting we should now call him Derek for short?

I think I might be of use here

I took the liberty and made a recording with polish pronunciation saying:

Fryderyk Franciszek Chopin - Żelazowa Wola (his birth place)

http://private.maticomp.net/chopin.mp3

Hope that helps (or not)

Mateusz

Mati, that was very thoughtful. Thanks!

What do you think about the spelling "Szopen"? Is it more commonly used in Poland? Would the pronunciation be different?

Steven

Even here the most common spelling is Chopin. One not knowing the spelling "Chopin" after hearing his surname would write it as "Szopen" - it's just the phonetic representation, so the pronunciation would stay exactly the same.

Quoting on Polish version of Chopin entry in Wikipedia:

"Ojciec, Mikołaj (1771-1844), był spolonizowanym Francuzem przybyłym z Marainville w Lotaryngii. Francuską wersją nazwiska - Chopin - posługiwali się do końca życia i on, i Fryderyk, z rzadka spolszczając je do postaci Szopen, która to bazuje na wymowie języka francuskiego i bywa używana potocznie."

which goes into:

"His Father, Mikołaj (Nicholas) (1771-1855), was a polonized French coming from Marainville in Lorraine. French version of their name - Chopin - was used till their death by both Mikołaj and Fryderyk, who rarely polonized it into Szopen based on french pronunciation and used it casually."


M.

Thanks again.

Steven

Oh Mati, thanks! and a couple more please, pretty please,
"Zwyny, Frycek, Fryc." Thanks!

Do you mean Wojciech Adalbert Żywny, Chopin's teacher and a violinist?

I will do more tommorow morning (it's 23:25 here now, so let's say in 11 hours ). If you have anything more for me to record, I will be pleased to do so

M.

Yes, Zywny. Mati, if you let us we'll give you a whole glossary of Polish names to record. You'd better watch out.

One should have a microphone at readiness all time!* And I certainly do, so feel free and don't worry about me


* it's a paraphrase of "One should have scales at readiness all time" said by Jascha Heifetz at his violin masterclass with Erik Friedman, one of my personal favourites - so fun to watch! I love Heifetz attitude Not piano, but still I'll provide a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kkc93IerkQ

Mati, you are an angel! That's really helpful. I too have wondered about 'Zwyny' which looks unpronouncable to me!

You have a very nice voice, too.

Zwyny is almost unpronouncable, possible even though. Zywny is much easier I will provide some audiofiles in the morning Kind of Devoted to Chopin Podcast ;-D

The first batch here goes!

http://private.maticomp.net/chopin2.mp3

And transcription if there were some problems with my English or unidentificable Polish words :

-------------8<-------------
Hello Dear Chopin Devotees!

I'd like cover some pronunciation aspects of polish language in this podcast-like
recording. Of course, everything related to our master's name, his teachers and
contemporary pianists.

His name was Fryderyk Chopin, often shortened into Frycek, which is also the nickname
of one of our members. Hello Frycek! He asked me to say Fryc too, so I'm saying it: Fryc.

Chopin was born in Żelazowa Wola. His father's name was Mikołaj Chopin. Our master was
taught by Wojciech Adalbert Żywny. To answer the question posted by Mary-Rose, the
combination of letters Z-w-y-n-y would be pronounced as Zwyny, but it is very rare
to have two hard consonants stacked together.

He was also taught by Józef Elsner.

Last but not least, the guy known to have been the greatest pianist ever was Chopin's
contemporary. His name was Franciszek Liszt - but because he was not Polish, Franz Liszt
is used in Poland as often.
-------------8<-------------


Cheers!
M.

Very good, Mati! Thank you very much.

Kathleen, I don't think I thanked you for your kind words about my first recording of 10/4 ... so thank you kindly! I have posted a link to the other ones for the e-cital, too, all of them still works in progress with almost three weeks to go:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/32/5173/20.html#000485

It's not possible for me to feel pride about these homespun renderings, but working on the has certainly brought me considerable joy. I'm hoping to make recordings between now and the 17th that are appreciably better technically, but I hope that even these convey how much pleasure and value the etudes offer amateurs like us.

I think my goal is now to "learn" them all, and I can't imagine a happier pursuit!

Steven

Dear Steven:

If I could play as you do, I would be busting all the buttons on my shirt with pride.

How do you do it??? As I mentioned in my previous critique, your finger dexterity is a marvel! These are very difficult etudes, and you seem to have them under control. Congratulations on a super achievement.

To be able to play all of Chopin's etudes...well, that's "the impossible dream" for me, but for you, a real probability!

Fondly,
Kathleen

Thanks so much for your kind words. Unfortunately, the residue of childhood trauma and drama continues to put pride out of reach. It's still hard to allow myself even to feel pleasure in musical expression, and it pleases me to know my service to Chopin is appreciated. Dang.

I wouldn't want anyone to think I learned these etudes recently in anticipation of next month's event. I "revived" 10/4 and 10/7 after working them up to an iffy stage in past years; I gave 10/2 a very brief shot as a teenager (the Alfred Mirovitch book, you know ), got nowhere with it then, and started relearning it anew around the beginning of this summer along with 25/9.

I probably won't post new versions of the e-cital pieces before the event, but I plan to record 25/9 soon.

Steven

p.s. As concerns "playing" all of them, that needs to be put in quotation marks in the same way as "learning" them—to make clear our loose interpretations of those words!

Just a quick comment-- more later on language:

Liszt's original name in Hungarian was Ferenc. I don't know what name he thought of himself by, but he was a native German speaker rather than a Hungarian speaker, so I suppose he called himself Franz. Correct me if you know.

But hey, wait a minute-- do we really know that Liszt was the greatest pianist ever? In his own time he had to duke it out with Thalberg for the championship, and somebody, asked whether Liszt or Thalberg was the best, said that Chopin was.

I'm not saying that was necessarily true, just that there was controversy! One would have to say that Liszt had a greater range and facility as a composer than Thalberg, and greater strength than Chopin.

I often wonder how our best contemporary players would compare, since piano technique and pedagogy have continued to develop all this time.

Elene

Elene - that's a very good point! We use the name Ferenc very often too, apart from the polish a-bit-of-equivalent Franciszek. I wasn't sure on that one, as I never went deep into Liszt's history and our Wikipedia on this is somewhat lacking. I must look into that one! Thanks.

With this greatest piano ever thing I wanted to put a bit of irony and a grain of salt ;-) I remember stories about Thalberg and Liszt that were posted in the Pianists Corner. I wonder how contemporary pianists would compare too. After seeing Marc-Andre Hamelin play Alkan beasts, Godowsky transcription of Chopin etudes, a lot of Liszt and other almost-impossible pieces I am quite sure he (and many others) is not far away from Liszt, or may be even better. The problem is we have no Liszt's recordings and nothing to compare objectively, just written thoughs of his contemporary musicians that he was that great.


M.

I've been glancing at some of Liszt's letters that are online hoping to see how he signed himself. Unfortunately he signed himself "F. Liszt" (even to his mother!)So he's no help there.