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#982906 - 06/15/06 08:08 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Kawaigirl1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 989
Loc: Toronto
I looked at the first 2 pages and alot of the measures are repeated which makes it easier to learn. \:D
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#982907 - 06/16/06 09:01 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
 Quote:
I'm still in shipping limbo
Yeah, me too. It's been 10 days since my order was shipped, and 12 days since it was placed. It's never taken this long before from SheetMusicPlus, but I'm patient.

On the positive side, it's been long enough that I had forgotten what else I had ordered with my Vince. G. music. It will be like Christmas when I get the package. \:\)
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Andrew - Shortcircuit85

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#982908 - 06/17/06 12:21 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TX-Dennis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 4126
Loc: Texas
How appropriate for a piece at least tangentially associated with Christmas. \:D
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#982909 - 06/17/06 12:54 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
Whoo Hoo! I Linus and Lucy sheet music just arrived. The box was literally dropped at my feet (cause my piano is right by the door where they deliver packages) while I was playing through my recital piece.

I love getting new music. I bought three books in addition to the Vince G. book so It's just like Christmas!
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#982910 - 06/17/06 01:57 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
seebechstein Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1085
Loc: houston
I'm protesting learning this piece for a number of reasons.

Number 1, Vince G. has passed and frankly, I'm of the opinion that once a musician is gone I think his/her work should become part of the public domain. This is absurd that we should pay others who had nothing to do with its creation.

Number 2, nobody posted the version that we are all to learn. There were links to several places where you could buy the music. Not interested in paying someone for something that should be free.

Number 3, I have no guarantee if any of the transcriptions are the original, even if I wanted to buy one.

Number 4, someone did post the sheet music for the Croatian Rhapsody, so I'll work that instead.

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#982911 - 06/17/06 02:48 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
I am missing the point of your post.

you are 1. Not signed up to learn this piece
2. Not making much of an argument

If you don't want to pay for music, fine. Then don't! BUT there is a good reason why material works are copyrighted for an additional 70 years past the death of the composer. It's so their FAMILY can benifit from their work. Why should someone devote their life to composition and music with NO provisions for their family when they pass. Their family should be able to benifit from the fruits of their work, so the law was written to protect 1 generation (i.e. 70 years = avg lifespan).

You could argue by your logic that the state should be able to claim houses as soon as the owner dies. Why not? Their kids didn't work for that house. Why shouldn't it go to the state?

Copyrights were developed to motivate people to work and contribute to society. Their motivation wasn't intended to be providing a service to society, but to provide for themselves and their family. That's why musical copyrights were invented, valid, and wise.
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Andrew - Shortcircuit85

If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.

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#982912 - 06/17/06 06:40 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
seebechstein Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1085
Loc: houston
I'm trying to explain why I'm not signed up to learn this piece.

In my opinion, there isn't a good reason why material works are copyrighted for a time after the composer's death. They made enough money off the work when they were alive, it's time for the public at large to benefit and enjoy the work without additional expense. And I'm sure Vince's estate was plenty large for any heirs.

By the way, I worked last week and got a paycheck. And I won't be getting paid after my death for the work I did. Obviously nobody needs to have their children paid as "motivation" to work today.

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#982913 - 06/17/06 08:01 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
By they way... Music isn't work (i.e. time ) it's A work (i.e. property). It doesn't make money itself. It's owners have to sell it and earn their own paycheck. The work you do every week is only worth that week's pay check because you are paid for your time not something you own. You can't get paid after you die, because you can't work (active verb) after you die.

If, on the other hand, you started a business and own it, you shouldn't lose the business just because you die. It should go to heirs. They should be able to keep the property of their parents and choose to sell it if they wish. That business is A work. It's something you made and constructed.

Also, what difference does it make how rich Vince was or how big his estate was? Just because one man is successfull doesn't mean anybody else has a right to limit his wealth in any manner. What about those that aren't rich and could benifit from the laws?
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#982914 - 06/17/06 08:04 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
Oh, can you tell I like a good old Political debate?

\:D

On a different note for a sec. I played around with this piece for over an hour (I know, cause I timed it, cause I'm going to log it, cause the Ladies are going down in the practice log challenge \:\) )

The timing of the bass through me for a loop for the first 30 minutes. I just couldn't get my hands to cooperate to play that melody. After a bit though, it finally came to me, and I started to feel the "pulse" of that part of the piece. Anybody else start the piece yet?

This is going to be a fun challenge. I think, it is going to go alot faster than I was thinking before. That section is pretty repetitive. Learn 10 measures, and you've learned 2-1/2 pages of music.
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#982915 - 06/17/06 10:28 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Opus45 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 918
Loc: North Carolina
Well I've looked everywhere for my copy and can't find it, so now I have to purchase another copy.

What usually happens in these situations is that I'll find my first copy after my second copy arrives. \:D

If that does happen seebechstein, I'll send my first copy to you so that you'll be able to join in the fun. ;\)
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#982916 - 06/17/06 10:55 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
I've been playing Linus and Lucy back in the late 1970s. (My friends called it "Charlie Brown." They did not realize the actual title.) I don't think the written music was published yet, as I searched far and wide as B.A.R.T. allowed me to (I was still in high school.) I recorded the LP onto a tape recorder, and used that as a guide.

Then Warner Bros. published "A Charlie Brown Christmas" in 1991. I bought that, but still could not get the left-hand part (where E-flat7 begins.)

It was not until Hal Leonard published the sheet music HL00352295 that I was able to completely play Linus and Lucy.

The music is not EXACTLY like on the LP recording, as it is transcribed. But, heck, it works!

If you have trouble learning this piece merely by reading, I suggest you learn it BY LISTENING.

Good luck, and have fun!
_________________________
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#982917 - 06/18/06 07:21 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by Opus45:
...I'll send my first copy to you so that you'll be able to join in the fun. ;\) [/b]
Thanks so much for your opinion :rolleyes: seebech'...here's mine...What a waste of time and energy to post that crap. If you don't want to buy it... THEN DON'T BUY IT AND GO ON![/b]

Opus45...let seebechstein ride his high horse.

I agree shortcirciut...the begininning is kinda easy, with all the repeat measures, played the first 2 1/2pgs be memory last night...not exact, but close...in the dark. With lessons, this is enough right now.

btw HAPPY FATHERS DAY to all the dads.
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#982918 - 06/18/06 08:55 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
seebechstein Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1085
Loc: houston
 Quote:
Originally posted by Opus45:
If that does happen seebechstein, I'll send my first copy to you so that you'll be able to join in the fun.[/b]
I appreciate the thought, but it isn't that I don't have four bucks. It's that I have a problem with paying people for something that they didn't create themselves.

 Quote:
Originally posted by TheVibeRAIDER:
It was not until Hal Leonard published the sheet music HL00352295 that I was able to completely play Linus and Lucy.

The music is not EXACTLY like on the LP recording, as it is transcribed. [/b]
This was my #3 reason for not buying the sheet music, I want to learn THE original version. Why can't the publishers make a perfect transcription from the original 1960s version recorded in the actual Charlie Brown Christmas special?

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#982919 - 06/18/06 09:47 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Opus45 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 918
Loc: North Carolina
seebechstein,

I am sure you will appreciate that this particular thread is for those who do[/b] want to learn to play "Linus and Lucy", not for those who don't.

If the topics you mentioned in this thread by way of your amusing protest still interest you, would you mind creating a separate thread for that discussion? It is an interesting subject, for sure, worthy of a seperate thread.

Thank you very much seebechstein.

Sincerely,
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#982920 - 06/18/06 02:22 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17698
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
Oh, can you tell I like a good old I played around with this piece for over an hour (I know, cause I timed it, cause I'm going to log it, cause the Ladies are going down in the practice log challenge \:\) )

The timing of the bass through me for a loop for the first 30 minutes. I just couldn't get my hands to cooperate to play that melody. After a bit though, it finally came to me, and I started to feel the "pulse" of that part of the piece. Anybody else start the piece yet?
[/b]
I'm still waiting for mine. It's been shipped but hasn't arrived yet.

p.s. Your post just may be the motivating force I need to register for the practice log and do my bit for the Chicks. :p
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#982921 - 06/18/06 03:10 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
seebechstein Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1085
Loc: houston
 Quote:
Originally posted by Opus45:
seebechstein,

I am sure you will appreciate that this particular thread is for those who do[/b] want to learn to play "Linus and Lucy", not for those who don't. [/b]
I always want to learn. I think this thread is for me, because I want to learn the ORIGINAL, and there is no printed version of the original available, at any price.

The first page is free on the internet and I played through it many times, and it sounds fairly original. I have no idea if the original solos are transcribed correctly, and I highly suspect that they are not. If that doesn't bother anyone else, I would be surprised.

I want to sit down at the piano at Nordstroms and bang out Linus and Lucy and have people in the shoe department wondering, "Wow, did Guaraldi come back from the grave?"

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#982922 - 06/18/06 07:58 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
 Quote:
4
p.s. Your post just may be the motivating force I need to register for the practice log and do my bit for the Chicks. [Razz]
;) I'm glad it is, considering the "chicks" are down by just shy of 400 avg minutes per member, they need you.

Getting back to the L&N music, does anybody know how to play that "swing" section. I have absolutely no jazz or blues experience to speak of, so I really don't know how to play through that. My version has a small window that shows 2 8th notes as being equal to a triplet of 1 whole followed by an 8th, but I am having a heck of a time applying that to the actual notes.
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Andrew - Shortcircuit85

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#982923 - 06/18/06 08:05 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
 Quote:
I always want to learn. I think this thread is for me, because I want to learn the ORIGINAL, and there is no printed version of the original available, at any price.
I'm not going to debate whether this is true or not, cause I wouldn't be suprised if it is. I do know, however, that this site I stumbled across claims otherwise.


 Quote:
Peanuts Collector\'s Club

The Vince Guaraldi Collection (#00672486, $19.95), which is a true conversation-stopper for those folks who absolutely want to play precisely like Guaraldi. The book contains note-for-note transcriptions of four Guaraldi originals -- "Cast Your Fate to the Wind," "Christmas Time Is Here," "Linus and Lucy" and "Star Song" -- along with his arrangements of five other cuts from early albums: "Greensleeves" and "O Tannenbaum," from "A Charlie Brown Christmas"; and "Manha de Carnaval," "Outra Vez" and "Samba de Orfeu." This is the real deal, boys and girls; these nine songs take up 85 full pages, and -- unless you're a prodigy -- these aren't pieces that you'll master during the last few hours before you want to impress folks at a dinner party.
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Andrew - Shortcircuit85

If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.

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#982924 - 06/18/06 08:57 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Opus45 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 918
Loc: North Carolina
 Quote:
from seebechstein
I want to sit down at the piano at Nordstroms and bang out Linus and Lucy and have people in the shoe department wondering, "Wow, did Guaraldi come back from the grave?"
Awesome seebechstein.

My sights are so much lower than yours, really...I just want to be able to bang it out period (any version, in any department). Consider hanging with us while we struggle through "Linus and Lucy", I'm sure you'll have much to contribute (even without a paid for published version).

(and by the way, my offer stands...you have a free copy of "Linus and Lucy" for the asking)
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#982925 - 06/18/06 09:32 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
 Quote:
This was my #3 reason for not buying the sheet music, I want to learn THE original version. Why can't the publishers make a perfect transcription from the original 1960s version recorded in the actual Charlie Brown Christmas special?
I do think the versions that are mentioned here are very accurate. It's definitely worth the money.

(Oh, and don't think that the Guaraldi heirs are in it for the money. I think they are more proud of the Grammys than money. Vince Guaraldi wasn't exactly a music superstar to the general public.)
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#982926 - 06/18/06 09:47 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
Getting back to the L&N music, does anybody know how to play that "swing" section. I have absolutely no jazz or blues experience to speak of, so I really don't know how to play through that. My version has a small window that shows 2 8th notes as being equal to a triplet of 1 whole followed by an 8th, but I am having a heck of a time applying that to the actual notes.
That "window" is to let you know that you are not supposed to play the music straight out as written. The rhythm is of the "swing."

You can try to learn the notes first, and play it as written. When you get comfortable and confident, then you can play that section with the "Swing feel" just like the little window suggests.

What I did is learn the bass part (the little notes on the bass clef for the bass guitar) and not worry about the left-hand chords. I think "walking the bass" sounds better, since we're not part of a trio. If you intend to play in a jazz trio, then you can play the left-hand chords and let the bass guitar do his part!

Good luck!
_________________________
1973 Baldwin Acrosonic (TRADED)
Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
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#982927 - 06/18/06 09:56 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
EDIT: that shows 2 8th notes as being equal to a triplet of 1 QUARTER[/b] followed by an 8th.

Apparently I have to go back and study my first Alfed's book cause I can't tell the difference between a 1/4 and whole. :p

Thanks for the reply, but I'm still a little confused by the whole thing. Are you suppose to take only groups of 8th notes, or are you suppose to apply this pattern to every kind of beat whether it be groups of 8ths or 1/4's. I'm guessing, it's more about the beat relative to the measure, not relative to the group of notes? In other words, we are just suppose to "swing" every other 8th beat?
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#982928 - 06/18/06 10:13 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
Here's the section I'm talking about:

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If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.

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#982929 - 06/18/06 10:36 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
Shortcircuit85:

I learned Linus and Lucy by ear back in the late 1970s, long before the sheet music and The Internet came out.

My classmate/bandmate loaned me the Vince Guaraldi LP albums that had different versions of Linus and Lucy. The version that was from the Charlie Brown Christmas sounded best, and I vowed to learn it, sheet music or not.

Now, as for the "swing" solo. I learned that by listening to the LP recordings. I got only the right-hand part but not the left-hand chords.

I did the same with the first solo (where E-flat7 begins.) I got most of the right-hand notes, but not the left-hand. Back then, I didn't hear any left-hand notes because appparently Vince played the left hand up around the middle C (as I have discovered in yet another version of Linus and Lucy.) Our version has the bass guitar part for the first solo, although a bit different from the recording.

My suggestion? Since I used the album recording to guide me through (due to the unavailability of the sheet music at the time) would it help that you try listening to the recording as well?
_________________________
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Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
Yamaha P-120
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#982930 - 06/18/06 10:45 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
Shortcircuit85:

BTW, your version doesn't have the left-hand chords for the "swing solo." It shows only the "walking bass."
_________________________
1973 Baldwin Acrosonic (TRADED)
Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
Yamaha P-120
2013 Charles Walter 1520 QA.

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#982931 - 06/18/06 10:45 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
Actually, I bought Linus and Lucy off of Windows Media online for $0.99, but this section sounds slightly different than the sheet music. Though, it might sound like what it is suppose to if you apply the pattern correctly.

As far as figruing it out from the recording, I do not have an ear for music. As much as I love music, my ear is way off. I couldn't begin to figure something out from listening to it.
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If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.

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#982932 - 06/18/06 10:52 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
Shortcircuit85:

After studying your version, in the "swing solo" for the right hand (RH), concentrate on learning the single notes. If you see a chord up in the treble clef, that chord (in different inversions) is written for the left hand (LH) in my music.

I hope that helps!
_________________________
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Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
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#982933 - 06/18/06 11:56 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Shortcircuit--

I just messed around with the few measures you posted, and boy it sounds nothing like I remember! In fact, it sounds like carp. I'm attributing most of that to the player.

However, on the question of swing... it's something you feel more than just count. You can only swing the 8th notes, and the swing beat is basically to hold the first 8th note down longer than you really would, then shorten the second note so the entire time taken is still only two 8th note values long. They're indicating to think of it kind of like a triplet, but I've also seen 8th note swing indicated as dotted 8th-16th, if that helps you.

But again, you're not really going to count it as much as you're going to feel it. The trick is to get that left hand rock solid, four beats. That's your bass or drum line in a jazz trio... the heartbeat. No fluctuation, no swing. 1-2-3-4. Then you play the right hand in swing. Just work it out so that when a right hand note or chord is supposed to land at the same time as a note in the left hand it does-- then you can mess around with everything else. The only thing that has to remain solid is the walking bass.

It's jazz, man! Loosen up! \:\)

Anyhow, I've played it a few times, and can't get it to sound right at all. But maybe it will help you to get the idea of swing. I'm playing it pretty slowly...

Linus and Lucy - square and slowly

Linus and Lucy - swing but still slow

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#982934 - 06/19/06 02:23 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
dvdiva Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 249
Loc: Manila
Wow Shortcircuit! I can't even pretend that I learned any part of the score yet! I'm impressed that you got so far already! I think you'll be completely done before some of us even get our sheet music on our doorsteps!

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#982935 - 06/19/06 11:56 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
FurElise Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 57
Loc: Tarrytown, New York
Hi! I can't remember if I checked in yet with this group. I've been struggling at the back of the pack in the Chopin Group so I thought that this would be a little diversion--hey this has only 4 flats--which may confuse me.

I'm just about to order the music from the link that a few of you seem to have ordered from--sheetmusicplus. Is this pretty much the version everyone has?

Well, I'm sure it will take some time to reach me so I'll just have to keep track of the posts.

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Cracks in my soundboard??
by Markarian
Yesterday at 09:35 PM
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