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#982936 - 06/19/06 07:05 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
Wow Nina! Thank you so much for taking the time to play and record that! I think I finally get what you're talking about. In this case, a "Recording" tells a thousand words. \:D I've been trying to nail down every single note with a countable beat, but that seems to be a big mistake! \:\)

This is probably going to take me a little while to get the hang of, but I think I understand now. Thanks again!
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Andrew - Shortcircuit85

If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.

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#982937 - 06/19/06 09:50 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
As far as figruing it out from the recording, I do not have an ear for music. As much as I love music, my ear is way off. I couldn't begin to figure something out from listening to it.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
Wow Nina! Thank you so much for taking the time to play and record that! I think I finally get what you're talking about. In this case, a "Recording" tells a thousand words.


I thought you didn't have an ear? ;\) :p
_________________________
1973 Baldwin Acrosonic (TRADED)
Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
Yamaha P-120
2013 Charles Walter 1520 QA.

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#982938 - 06/19/06 10:16 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
\:D

Yeah, I see the irony! BUT IN MY DEFENSE... \:\)

There is big difference between transcribing music from a recording, and figuring out how to interpret something you can see in front of you from a recording.

I would add, as Nina pointed out, this doesn't sound anything like the original! I was looking at the music while listening to the orignal, and I kinda thought it sounda similar. Now I know I was wrong.

I'm thinking of buying a ear training program. Maybe I can force myself to learn and at least hear intervals if not recognize actual notes here and there.
_________________________
Andrew - Shortcircuit85

If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.

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#982939 - 06/19/06 10:46 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Save the money, and buy (or download) sheet music for piano CDs you like to listen to.

Follow along (or try to) when you listen to the CD.

You may discover you have a better ear than you thought!

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#982940 - 06/20/06 09:34 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
FurElise Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 57
Loc: Tarrytown, New York
Well, my order has been confirmed from sheetmusicplus so now I just have to wait for the postman--the s&h cost more than the music. What a rip. I'll have to listen to Nina's recording tonight. So I guess I've been playing swing all my life as I can't count. GRIN

Actually, I can count fine when playing the piano, but when I was playing bassoon many many moons ago, I was so in the habit of counting vocally that I was totally frustrated by the reed occupying my mouth. I could not keep time with my foot, so I'd wing it.

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#982941 - 06/20/06 09:45 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Monica K. Online   blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17701
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
My copy arrived today, hurray! [wonders whether she can possibly justify taking the rest of the day off to go start playing it.]
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#982942 - 06/20/06 09:52 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
dk21208 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 339
Loc: FL
Nina, that was sounding cool... I hope that means your pinky is feeling better.

I have to admit I have been focused on a different piece and haven't worked very hard on Linus and Lucy yet. Sounds like I have some catching up to do.
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Dean

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#982943 - 06/20/06 10:25 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
Monica...I give you permission to leave for the rest of the day...take an attitude adjustment day.

Nina...nice job. Does anyone have a full mp3 of Linus and Lucy to listen to?
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#982944 - 06/20/06 10:30 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
If there's a free digital download of the version you guys are using, I can try to record it.

Disclaimer: I played a version of L & L a few years ago--no way am I picking it up and sightreading it as a complete newbie. Don't panic! \:\)

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#982945 - 06/20/06 03:57 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
I would add, as Nina pointed out, this doesn't sound anything like the original! I was looking at the music while listening to the orignal, and I kinda thought it sounda similar. Now I know I was wrong.
It's quite possible that you don't have the full music score. For example, I have the Warner Bros "A Charlie Brown Christmas" published in 1991 that has Linus and Lucy without the first verse. It only has the "swing" verse.

Now, I also have the sheet music published by Hal Leonard (HL00352295). This version has the first verse and also the "swing" verse.
_________________________
1973 Baldwin Acrosonic (TRADED)
Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
Yamaha P-120
2013 Charles Walter 1520 QA.

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#982946 - 06/20/06 06:08 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13707
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Hi all, and thanks to Nina for the great demonstration.

I just thought I'd mention that the original Linus and Lucy was for a jazz trio (piano, bass, and drums.) The drums and bass are very understated, so a lot of people tend to think the whole tune is piano solo. I'd suggest listening to the original trio version - the swing section makes a lot more sense with a drummer!
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#982947 - 06/20/06 08:32 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Monica K. Online   blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17701
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
That's interesting, Kreisler; you're right--I had always thought it was a piano solo. I'm going to have to get out my Charlie Brown videotapes and listen for those drums and bass.

Okay, guys, now that my sheet music is here, I'm ready to start. I spent about 20 minutes so far this evening working on the first two pages, and I have a question. What fingering do you use for 2nd page (labeled "3" on the sheetmusic score), line 2, 2nd measure, where you've got those E-natural grace notes right after playing the E-flat? I'm doing something weird where I play the first E-flat and A-flat with my 2nd and 5th fingers, and then squeezing my thumb in to do the E-natural grace note, but it seems weird so I think it may not be the best fingering. But if I try playing the E-flat with my thumb and the grace note with my 2nd finger, it doesn't seem to fit easily.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#982948 - 06/20/06 09:44 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
What fingering do you use for 2nd page (labeled "3" on the sheetmusic score), line 2, 2nd measure, where you've got those E-natural grace notes right after playing the E-flat?
In the "A Charlie Brown Christmas" version, the grace notes are not transcribed in. The sheet music you have is written differently, and IMHO, is a bit trickier.

Solution: Eliminate the grace notes.

For a better explanation, have a look at the "A Charlie Brown Christmas" version. That's how I play that section. I use 1-5 for the E-flat/A-flat, and slurring into 3 for the F.

Maybe a little easier: In that section only, whenever there is F/A-flat, eliminate (or subltely play) the A-flat.
_________________________
1973 Baldwin Acrosonic (TRADED)
Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
Yamaha P-120
2013 Charles Walter 1520 QA.

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#982949 - 06/21/06 07:09 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
I've been playing with E-flat/A-flat 2-4, F/A-flat 3-4 using 1 for the slur note(E). I also have been only slurring the first note of each group...example 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4 | 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4, 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4, 2| (|marks the measure) Until I can get my fingers to work faster...I like the way that feels. Does that help??

Had a lesson last night and just started playing a little of the intro...teaches eyes got wide..."working on something??". He mentioned he has a few different FLAVORS he likes to add to that tune, so I'll try to pass along when they develop.
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#982950 - 06/21/06 10:06 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
I'm a little bummed. I had that whole beginning section down, and I just realized yesterday, I wasn't playing this one beat correctly. Now I have to unlearn that mistake, which is hard to do!
_________________________
Andrew - Shortcircuit85

If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.

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#982951 - 06/21/06 10:35 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Monica K. Online   blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17701
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
I've been playing with E-flat/A-flat 2-4, F/A-flat 3-4 using 1 for the slur note(E). I also have been only slurring the first note of each group...example 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4 | 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4, 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4, 2| (|marks the measure) Until I can get my fingers to work faster...I like the way that feels. Does that help??

[/b]
Very much so! Right now I'm playing it without the grace notes (thanks, VibeRaider!) just to get the timing down, but I'm not ready to give up on them completely so I will try adding them back in.

shortcircuit, I've done that "oops--I just discovered I was playing it wrong all along" thing before. The good news is that you discovered it now, when it will be easier to unlearn, rather than 6 months from now, when you might as well throw the towel in. \:\)
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#982952 - 06/21/06 11:27 AM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
I'm a little bummed. I had that whole beginning section down, and I just realized yesterday, I wasn't playing this one beat correctly. Now I have to unlearn that mistake, which is hard to do! [/b]
I think I know what section your referring too \:o
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#982953 - 06/21/06 12:09 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
Probably,

I'm talking about one of the main sections that everyone recognizes. I don't have the music infront of me, so I can't cite the measure, but it's the part where the left hand and right hand are out of sync for two beats. There is a 1/4 note in the left hand followed by Eb (I thinK) chord? I was playing them at the same time, so that's very ackward now to play them offset by an 8th.
_________________________
Andrew - Shortcircuit85

If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.

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#982954 - 06/21/06 12:56 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
YUP...thats the one, me too
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#982955 - 06/21/06 01:03 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
Good to know, I'm not alone \:D
_________________________
Andrew - Shortcircuit85

If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.

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#982956 - 06/21/06 06:46 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Monica K. Online   blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17701
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Okay, before I ask this next question, I would like to remind everybody that There Is No Such Thing As A Stupid Question.

Um, am I supposed to pedal at all on this piece?

[ducks from rotten tomatoes being thrown] Please pardon my ignorance, but you have to remember that I come from the Land of New Age, which lives and dies by the pedal. So as I started practicing "Linus and Lucy" for the first time, I merrily hit that sustain pedal just as I do for everything else that I play, and it sounded horrible. Are any of you pedalling on it?
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#982957 - 06/21/06 06:57 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
That's not a stupid question at all Monica!

I started pedaling on this, and I thought it sounded muddy. So I've been practicing without it myself. I don't know if this is what you are suppose to do on this song, but I'm sure you'll be glad to know you aren't the only one who's been confused about it.

I hadn't thought to ask. I'm so glad you brought it up though.
_________________________
Andrew - Shortcircuit85

If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.

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#982958 - 06/21/06 07:47 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Monica K. Online   blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17701
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
I'm sure you'll be glad to know you aren't the only one who's been confused about it.
[/b]
[wipes sweat from brow] Phew! Now let's just wait for an answer from the experts. I'm with you; I've been practicing without the pedal since the first horrid muddy experience.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#982959 - 06/21/06 07:48 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
dvdiva Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 249
Loc: Manila
I think it doesn't call for a pedal (but I'm not an expert!). I'm not really sure but I think jazz generally doesn't use sustain, since there are so many dissonant notes running up and down together that they'll just sound muddy. If new age lives by the pedal and long sustained notes, then maybe jazz lives by the beat and short snappy notes? I don't know, Linus and Lucy is officially my first jazz piece, and Take Five is coming up next! \:\)

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#982960 - 06/21/06 07:49 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
I don't think so...I haven't been (with a confused look on my face)
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#982961 - 06/21/06 09:05 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
Shortcircuit85 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 535
Loc: New Hampshire
Well, it looks like we are all on the same page (no pun intended)
_________________________
Andrew - Shortcircuit85

If you were not sane, you would never misunderstand this question or the consequences of not comprehending its meaning.

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#982962 - 06/21/06 09:27 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
Right now I'm playing it without the grace notes (thanks, VibeRaider!) just to get the timing down, but I'm not ready to give up on them completely so I will try adding them back in. [/b]
You're welcome Monica!!!

Yes, it is also smart not to give up on the grace notes completely as I'm sure you will become a little more proficient to play them later. As for me, I had already learned this piece last century without the benefit of the music score. I might have trouble adding those grace notes, due mainly to laziness! \:D
_________________________
1973 Baldwin Acrosonic (TRADED)
Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
Yamaha P-120
2013 Charles Walter 1520 QA.

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#982963 - 06/21/06 09:30 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
I've been playing with E-flat/A-flat 2-4, F/A-flat 3-4 using 1 for the slur note(E). [/b]
Cool! Another fingering!

Where were you when I needed you before??? \:\)
_________________________
1973 Baldwin Acrosonic (TRADED)
Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
Yamaha P-120
2013 Charles Walter 1520 QA.

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#982964 - 06/21/06 09:38 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
Okay, how about this (on the subject of the grace note riffs):

1-4 E-flat/A-flat

1 slurs into E

Then 2-4 F/A-flat



Looks like the grace notes will live!!!

Where was this team when I needed them before???
_________________________
1973 Baldwin Acrosonic (TRADED)
Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
Yamaha P-120
2013 Charles Walter 1520 QA.

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#982965 - 06/21/06 09:48 PM Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 80
Loc: SF Bay Area
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
Um, am I supposed to pedal at all on this piece? [/b]
I wouldn't. But only in one exception: In the first verse after the opening part of the song, where the score reads N.C. then starts with G/B-flat and the E-flat7. Stop pedaling when that verse ends and the opening melody starts again.
_________________________
1973 Baldwin Acrosonic (TRADED)
Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
Yamaha P-120
2013 Charles Walter 1520 QA.

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