Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Blues players???

I've only been on this forum a short time...but I'm definitely not new to computers, nor forums (ok, fora if yer speakin Greek) or mailing lists.

Anyway, I saw a post by Blues Babe and that prompted me to ask how many blues players are here.

I like classical music (I should, both my sons have masters' degrees in music...I've been immersed in it for a long time) but I have no desire to become a classical pianist. My preferred musical genres are 60s/70s hard rock (Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, etc.) and Delta blues. I had to make a choice about which avenue I was going to follow on piano and bass. I decided on blues...although I can't really explain why. It might be that the 1-4-5 chord progression is fairly predictable and it's relatively easy to get "up to speed" (even if it's only in the slow lane) and play stuff that sounds like music.

I've only been playing the keyboard (electronic) for a coupla months. But I've been able to duplicate the bass lines I use and then wander off with a little improvisation.

I've still got this right hand that doesn't know much other than plucking strings. But I'm forcing it to play the bass lines along with the left. It's helping.

Anyway I'd love to hear from any other blues players.

And I just thought of something. I'd REALLY like to know if anyone is familiar with a piece called "Floating Bridge" originally done by Sleepy John Estes and covered by Eric Clapton.

Thanks,

Yup, I'm a blues nut! Actually my tastes are almost identical to yours. I played guitar for donkeys years playing a bit of electric blues from 50's and 60's and attempted some earlier acoustic blues, never really managed to play those styles convincingly though.

I started playing keyboards about 5 weeks ago and Blues is my ultimate goal but I'd like to play some Baroque/classical too plus some rock/pop/folk (Carol King, Elton John, Beatles etc)

There's quite a few Blues threads on here though they're not very busy, good to have another Blues player around! I think this is the most recent and active Blues thread Improved IBP thread

IBP stands for Improvising Blues Piano a book by Tim Richards which is one of the best for learning Blues Piano IBP on Amazon

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the Sleepy John Estes track.

BTW If you love Delta Blues you might want to check out an American performer called Seasick Steve, don't know how well known he is over there but he's become a bit of a star over here since appearing on a popular TV show Seasick Steve on YouTube

I've been playing a year now almost and my teacher has been putting me over the Tim Richards book 'Improvising Blues Piano'. I must be honest but I never was a blues fanatic but now I really love it.

Oh, man! Seasick Steve is WAY kool! I just ordered his CD (only one as far as I can see...oops, I just found another one) from Amazon (along with a coupla Leo Kottke CDs I'd had on my wish list.)

He reminds me in a way, of Bob Hite who was one of the founders of Canned Heat, although Hite was a harp player. (Man! So many members of that group died from drug/alcohol abuse. A real shame.) He also reminds me a little (in a real different way) of one of my favorite blues guitarists, Lightnin Hopkins. Hopkins' stuff is real hard to follow, cuz he (supposedly...and my experience seems to validate the theory) never played a song the same way twice. A whole lot of "entertainment" by varying the way he played or sang. "Blues in my Bottle" is one his songs that really grabs me.

I'm also gonna order the IBP. I'm gonna see if it's available at a local store. If so I'll drive over and pick it up so I can get started on it. Well, that was a bust, so I'll be getting it from Amazon.

I'll also hop over to that thread and see what happens if I knock 3 times and say the password.

Thanks for the info and the link to the IBP thread,

Btw, PM me and I'll see if I can point you to a copy of the Estes tune.

Hey RatMan. I've been on the keys as an adult for 2 years now and it's been mostly blues.

I haven't been contributing much to the IBP thread lately because I have been working non-stop on putting together a multi-chorus blues improv that uses stuff from several blues instructional sources. This means transposing licks at the keys and remembering the new fingerings as well as having everything learned well enough to cut and paste on the fly (which is the goal anyway, right?)

I'm getting closer...

I love blues and rock piano, but I'm finding the apprenticeship hard for the following reason: it's not too bad to memorize a piece as a piece, which you could do all the way through IBP. But this is not the goal, you might as well be using Alfred's Adult Course or some such thing.

We want to play the blues, to be able to mix and match licks and choruses in both hands, eventually to perhaps play original-sounding music...

You can read the traditional (classical) types complaining that they can only keep a few memorized pieces in their repertoire at a time.

We don't have that luxury, if we want to be blues players. We need to not only keep pieces in memory, but be so comfortable with them that we can --on the fly, mind-- take six bars from one, six from another , two from a third and four from a fourth, transpose them from their various original keys and put them together seamlessly to make a piece that we've never seen written down.

That's what we're up against, guys 'n' gals! Learning to play a few pieces with muscle memory is not going to get us any closer to playing blues. We have to internalize our pieces so that every note and phrase becomes ours to chop up, change, add to and re-combine.

It doesn't happen often --but hey,it never used to happen at all-- it only works with childishly simple 3-chord clichés that have been played a billion times before by everyone and their dog, but when I hear a phrase or a lick in my head and two seconds later it's coming out of the keys, well there's nothing like it for me, I can tickle my ears with the corners of my grin.

Welcome to the forum RatMan. I'm another old rock/blues guitar guy lately reincarnated as a piano newbie. Unlike some of the other bluesers, I'm really concentrating on classical and theory stuff right now, but I still manage to stop by the IBP thread now and then, and I'm slowly working through both IBP and Mark Harrison's Blues Piano. I'm hoping to post my improv on Beginner Boogie in the next few days.

It's always nice to hear from Pasta, and I agree whole-heartedly with the notion that we should not be doing IBP as if it were Alfred's 1. Luckily, the blues is more interchangeable than most styles, so as your vocabulary of riffs and licks grows, you can cut and paste them into different pieces in new and interesting ways.

After 30 years of peeling off blues licks on guitar, my fingers just know where to go to hit the tone I want. I hope someday to do that on piano too, but unlike guitar, I want to make sure I have enough formal training to know why some things work and others don't, and I want to avoid some of the ruts I've gotten stuck in.

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with the Estes/Clapton piece you mentioned.

Hope to see ya round the "fora."

Hit the nail on the head, Pastafarian. I think about the early blues musicians...most of whom were guitarists and vocalists...and not many of 'em had much schooling in music, let alone a classical music education. They learned their licks from others (and memorized 'em) or invented 'em themselves and stored 'em away in the head.

This is what I try to do with my bass. I don't want to be locked into something on a page. I enjoy shooting from the hip, so to speak. For a bass player, it can be fairly easy to get the basics of the blues. It's actually geometry. The 1-4-5 progression has the shape of an upper case "L" turned 90 degrees clockwise as one views the fingerboard. Doesn't matter if it's a fretted or unfretted neck (I play both) the geometry is the same. I tend to think of more complicated lines the same way: "what shape does it have?" That way I can start with an E or G or A and use the same pattern.

I can see some of that in the keyboard. But it hasn't "made the journey from the head to the heart" yet. This seems to back up what Pastafarian wrote. The idea of keeping "chunks" or licks in memory and then putting them together on the fly is what I've come to enjoy on the bass. I know I've got a LONG way to go, which is why I've started the piano and delving into theory.

On the other side of the coin, there are many great bassists who started their musical careers with classical music education and then applied that to their rock or blues. John Paul Jones, Phil Lesh, Jack Bruce to name a few. Their musical knowledge vaulted them far above what I could ever do, playing by ear.

So I guess it's time to knuckle down and learn all I can and keep the "pieces" of the music in my head (memory like a steel sieve) as much as I can by practicing and improvising whenever possible.

I have no idea where this is gonna take me, but I'm enjoyin the ride.

To bluekeys: I scanned your blog briefly and I bookmarked it so I can read through it at my leisure. Seems we may have a few things in common. Thank you for the welcome. And thanks to all who are helping me feel at home here.

I'm a harmonica (harp) player. I don't have to think about what I'm going to play very much. I decide on the sound I want and the instrument does it. If I want to change keys, I change harps, unless positional play offers me a bend I can't get in "cross". After the first few years, because of the pitch limitations of the diatonic harp, technique is mostly about tone and speed. For the harp-geeks, I'll add that I don't mess with overdraws(blows) or special tunings apart from a filed blow 3 for Irish music.

Blues harmonica improvising's is fairly simple because except for a few "look ma!" situations, you can play but one voice at a time on the harmonica. Usually, you've got bass and guitar to prop you up for weird sycopations and rhythmic adventures and to act as a lighthouse when you've ventured out of the safe harbour of the blues changes and need to get back before the chorus ends.

Solo blues piano is a very different beast.

Even mere mortals have at least two voices going on simultaneously. If the right hand goes exploring, the left hand can't follow. They'll both get lost.

Instinctively easy licks in Bb may be impossible, or at least 3 months of practise away in E. Heck, even transposing a three-note chord can be a head-scratcher and you don't have an free hand to scratch with while playing...

I'm not going to say it's easy to play pro level blues harp, but it's way easier to play passable blues harmonica than passable blues piano. I'd be willing to bet that it's easier to play passable blues just-about-anything (maybe not trombone) than blues piano...

I think about that a lot. Makes me feel better.

BTW: James Booker was classically-trained. Check out his piano technique, he a monster!

To my knowledge, Dr. john has had no classical training. He also plays technically serious stuff!

Classical technique will definitely make it possible for someone to play more, better and faster, but for those of us who are starting late, we have to choose our discipline and focus closely on that. If you have specific sounds in your head that you want to make, then technical deficiencies make themselves apparent. For instance, I want to play rapid even tremolos over several bars, and while it might be nice and even a little useful to learn classical trills such as those in Bach's two-part inventions, a more efficient use of time would be to play a 5-8 trill over a funky Lh bassline for a few minutes a day than trying to learn an invention.

But you're right. I played a little bass in my day and your "blues boxes" on the bass exist on the piano. They're just harder to see and there's more of them I think. I won't be trying to defend that assertion if a bassist like Michael Manring --best bass player I've ever seen live--takes issue with it, but the point stands.

But that's the point of theory and the years of practice: you get to see all the boxes and to teach your fingers how to move between them. IBP is a road map to the more basic of these.

Hey Ratman, glad you like Seasick Steve, I love that kind of primitive, raw blues.

Yup blues piano is a whole new ballgame. It's going to take a lot of practice before my left hand becomes automatic enough to start improvising with my right!

Pasta said:

Classical technique will definitely make it possible for someone to play more, better and faster, but for those of us who are starting late, we have to choose our discipline and focus closely on that.

I don't disagree with that statement, but I would qualify it by saying it depends on what your goals are. If you want to play piano in a blues band, and do it as quickly as possible, you should probably start to specialize after about 6 months of the basics.

If you want to play a variety of styles, primarily for your own enjoyment, including being able to sight read popular songs, you're going to need more classical training.

I love playing the blues, and might even want to do it with a small amateur combo some day. But starting piano at age 50, I have realistic expectations. The vast majority of my play is solo, for family and friends, and for that I want a broad range of skills (even mediocre ones) rather than specialized expertise in one style. Consequently, I plan to continue classical lessons for at least another year or two.

I'm gonna snip and intersperse comments here and there.

Man, I can sure see that! A lot different from my perspective because I'm only used to playing a foundation part and it seems that you're used to playing an improvisational melody...at least that's how it looks from where I stand.

Yep. The foundation and the melody simultaneously. I'd venture to say that if there were a way to add a drum kit (not a "drum machine") to the piano, it'd be totally self sustaining.

I've got a long way to go before I get to that level, although I see the inherent complexities just by looking at the music and the keyboard geometry.

I was ignorant of him until you mentioned his name. Reading what I found in a quick web search...well, it's pretty darned impressive. I'll have to look for some of his stuff to listen to. I might even mess up and learn something.

For all of Dr. John's theatrics, he does play some very good music. I've spent some time playin bass alongside his recordings and it's not as simple as one might expect for a performer with such "schtick."

I'll have to take that on faith, although that's sorta what I'm heading into. I don't think I'll spend much time learning too many classical pieces, however, as a friend of mine is fond of saying, "the future is uncertain." I have no idea where I'm going on this journey, but I intend to enjoy the ride. And strangely enough, I tried ending some pieces with trills on the bass and, man, it just don't sound right!

I can see some of them in triads. But I tend to agree with you about them being harder to see...at least at this stage in the game.

I spose I shall find out where this road map takes me. And I better get off this keyboard and onto the other one if I want to make any progress today.

I love playing blues but I'm no where near comfortable in more than about 3 or four keys. . Here's a blues song I wrote and recorded a little over a year ago. I was working on F at the time. http://www.box.net/shared/ak4iyqa21t

Wow! I love that piece! Nice dark, somber feeling with the piano highlights sprinkled over it. I really like it. First thing I had to do was pick up the bass and play along. I don't find much to play in F, but it rocks. Or blues, as the case may be.

You're miles ahead of me in a whole lotta areas and I sure thank you for posting that piece.

Got more?

Hey I do the same thing. One of my basses is a Michael Kelly Bayou1V, an acoustic "resonator" and I'm pulling it all the time when I hear something good on the radio or computer. It's nice cus I don't have to go plug in and turn on.

That was my only real blues song up on the box.net but here is a quick jam. http://www.box.net/shared/rfddq2n20p I don't remember what key it was in but probably C or G. Eflat is another favorite.

I'm very limited in what I can do. Totally self taught and I never seem to have the patience to sit down and really study the blues. :rolleyes:

Great discussion here.

Peyton, man, those recordings were really awesome! If you think you're limited in what you can do, you should hear me play the blues. Great stuff!

Another great piece, Peyton. It sorta reminded me of "stride" piano pieces I've heard by some of the piano greats.

Thanks a whole lot for posting it. I really enjoyed it.

I'm with deeluk, Peyton. I give a whole new meaning to the idea of being very limited in what I can do -- particularly now that my right hand is in a cast up to my elbow. So far, after 7 months of playing piano (and never having played another instrument in my life), I can play a basic 12-bar blues in C with some improvised embellishments. I can play a few other non-blues pieces, of course, but you're light years ahead of me. Now that I've temporarily lost the use of my right hand, my instructor is working on strengthening my left hand work. He taught me a couple of stride riffs last night. Love it!

Blues Babe, it does sound like a great opportunity to work on the left hand. What did you do to your hand?

Thanks for the kudos all. I'm 52 and have been playing around with blues since I was 18. So I guess I see "limited" in that after all these years I should have a little bit more under my fingers than I do. I'm working on mostly classical these days but keep thinking I should put a little time into furthering my blues "education". Maybe one of those books you all are talking about...

Peyton, when a fella comes onto the "Beginner's forum", uses the word "limited" to describe their playing and then pulls out some serious technique like you, I'm thinking either I don't really understand the word "limited" or I'm hazy on the concept of "beginner". :p

You have some nice chops.

The books we're talking about are probably way too basic for you. I'd recommend you look into some of Dr. John's instructional material. It's the most advanced purely blues material I've seen. I reckon I'm between 5 and 10 years away from getting anything out of it, let alone mastering it.

If jazz might be your thing, then you might want to check out Tim Richards' Exploring Jazz Piano books (vols 1 and 2). He's the author of Improvising Blues Piano and his jazz books will definitely help you solve the "limited" thing. :rolleyes:

Thanks for posting "Crosstown". Those are some nice blues scale licks. I'll be slowing those up a mite and stealing everything that ain't nailed down.

Blues Babe!!! Say it ain't so! Here's to a speedy recovery.

I took piano a few years as a kid but never got past the beginner stage.

I took it up about a year ago. I am working through IBP and also working on some Joplin, Gershwinn, and a little George Winston.

I really want to learn to play the blues. I know 12-bar blues and improvise on it quite a bit, as my two year old loves to howl when I finish the song--now where did he get that from?

Hey -- anybody tried any of Dr. John's Homespun piano lessons?
HomeSpun

I was thinking about trying this at some point this year...