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#986415 - 01/10/09 10:11 AM rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
musdan Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 1165
I've been with my "new" teacher for a year and she puts a good deal of emphasis on rhythm which for some reason I can hear but can't seem to get into my fingers. There is an art to counting correctly, I guess.

She breaks things down into fractions (math is not my thing) 1/8 = 1/4 = 1/2 etc. - I've studied dance for many years and dance teachers have always said how musical - I happened to speak to a muscian in my building who said think about it you have two feet and ten fingers. Sometimes I wish I could use my feet.

It seems I'm just a little bit off the beat - it's enough to make me want to just throw in the rag - (never do that).

My former teacher came at it from a different angle and it seemed to work. Everyone has different ways.

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#986416 - 01/10/09 10:23 AM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
TSPhillips Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Atlanta
My piano teacher told me to think of every rhythm in 16th notes. So instead of counting 1, 2, 3, 4, slow it down a bit and count 1 e and a 2 e and a...etc. It helped me a lot helped me out a lot.

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#986417 - 01/10/09 11:26 AM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
You must tap your foot - unless you have a free hand to conduct (though I have actually conducted with my foot before).
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#986418 - 01/10/09 12:57 PM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
Triryche Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 1451
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Take you time time and start slowly. Sometimes you will mY to play painstakingly slowly. But make sure you are tapping your foot or playing with a metronome. Eventually it will click, and then you you'll have to wait to get stumped by another rhythm!! \:D

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#986419 - 01/10/09 03:12 PM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
May be the math is tripping you up?? Obviously you've got rhythm based on your dancing. May be there is some more somatic way of "counting" that suits you better - like tapping your foot, or subtly nodding your head, or subtly moving your body?
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#986420 - 01/10/09 03:52 PM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
tangleweeds Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012


Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 1269
Loc: Portlandia
I find that learning rhythms is always two stage process for me -- there's the phase where I read the rhythm off the page, learn to count it out, etc. And then suddenly it clicks, and it becomes something I can kind of groove out on, reproduce and enjoy even without counting -- get it into my bones and sinews, or something. When I really get it, it becomes actual fun to play along with the metronome.

I aspire to be able to sight read rhythms someday, do it all in one step, but I'm not there yet!
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#986421 - 01/10/09 04:23 PM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
musdan Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 1165
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rosanna:
May be the math is tripping you up?? Obviously you've got rhythm based on your dancing. May be there is some more somatic way of "counting" that suits you better - like tapping your foot, or subtly nodding your head, or subtly moving your body? [/b]
You hit the nail on the head - math makes my head spin.

She has me clap the rhythm sometimes -- first my teacher claps the rhythym (my foot is on automatic) and then its my turn - at times we do it together - it seems to click and then it goes away. I think it might be because I hear the beat If she plays the notes, but I'm mirroring what she does and what I hear. If this makes sense. Someone told me dancers dance to a different beat.

Somehow it will click - my teacher says it's better when I play hands together.

Thanks Rosanna and fellow travelers for all your support and suggestions. ;\)

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#986422 - 01/10/09 05:04 PM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
musdan,

I guess having been in dancing myself, I have a sense of somatic rhythm. And being decent in math (yep I am! ) it feels to me that *counting* rhythm is quite different than *sensing* rhythm.

E.g. when I play from score, I would say that translating the notes into rhythm has more of an analytical sense in my head (somehow) - it feels more left-brained if you will.

Now that I am learning to play by ear, I notice that when I listen to a song (with other than "straight" beats, i.e. 1-2-3-4), and I try to translate from the SENSE of rhythm that I *feel* back into *countable* notes, it actually require more brain juice than I expected. Since I am decent at math and all, I realize it's not the analysis/counting itself that makes this translation tricky. Somehow sensing the rhythm engages a different part of the brain (so it seems) than the counting part of the brain.

Hmm, not that this babbling helps you, but it was an interesting experience for me.
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#986423 - 01/10/09 06:17 PM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
musdan Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 1165
Rosanna, I wonder if when we dance we sense the rhythm?

Learning to play music is a different ballgame, all those notes need to be counted - I enjoyed reading your post - it's given me "food for thought" or however that goes.

Dancing on the music was never a problem, never counted - I always said the music told me what to do. Met a neighbor who was a modern dancer and said that I counted time without giving it thought, but it's not the same as playing all those notes on the piano.

Tis a puzzlement.

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#986424 - 01/10/09 07:27 PM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
 Quote:
Originally posted by musdan:
Rosanna, I wonder if when we dance we sense the rhythm?

Dancing on the music was never a problem, never counted - I always said the music told me what to do. Met a neighbor who was a modern dancer and said that I counted time without giving it thought...
I am sure we sense the rhythm very clearly when we dance. However, just like trying to transcribe a song I hear into rhythmic notes on paper, I would find it very tricky to get say a Samba or Tango or a Polka dance rhythm onto paper.

Actually now that I think about it, I never "counted" (as in 1+2+ etc) when I learned any dance. Strange isn't it? In fact, I have seen other dancers "count" by saying "bum, dah-bum, dah-dah" with all the accents and minute emphasis to go along with the move. And thinking about a modern dance class I took, I definitely couldn't count it giving how fluid the choreography was.
 Quote:
but it's not the same as playing all those notes on the piano.
Tis a puzzlement alright! At least I assume we are now developing all parts of our brain!
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#986425 - 01/10/09 11:26 PM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
musdan Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 1165
Most of my training is ballet, took tap and jazz off and on over the years and now my teacher of many years teaches only once a week - and jokingly calls it her geriatric class - it's fun but not easy. There are twelve of us and we are in our 60's.

Latin dances have tricky rhythms. "bum, dah dah" sounds like a tap dancer in some ways or maybe jazz. Guess where there's a will there's a way.


I think my brain must be saying "are you for real" bombarding it with all this new information.

It's a "good thing" that you have talent to transcribe music. My father transcribed music for my mother who was a contralto.

Onward and upward. \:\)

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#986426 - 01/10/09 11:33 PM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
My mother is a retired professional dancer[modern].

She is ten times better than me when it comes to rhythm.
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Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.

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#986427 - 01/11/09 02:04 AM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
AnthonyB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 659
Loc: Center City, MN
I think if I manage to get a certain piece I just started learning done for the recital that I likely won't have perfect rhythm throughout the entire piece. Of course, I may have to ditch the certain piece if I can't make progress fast enough. Wish me luck. \:\)
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Roland FP-7 / Pianoteq 4.5.1


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#986428 - 01/11/09 09:43 AM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
musdan Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 1165
Anthony - I wish you the best - when is your recital?

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#986429 - 01/11/09 11:54 AM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
AnthonyB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 659
Loc: Center City, MN
Well, it's only going to be for the ABF online recital and not a real live recital with an audience. I don't play for absolute strangers at this point unless I know how it sounds first. \:\)

Anyway, the rhythm that I'm attempting to tackle isn't really complicated, but I've been spending some time here this morning tapping it out on the desk and trying to get it into my head before heading to the piano to try it. Again, it isn't all that complex but it is something that I've not played yet so getting the hands to work properly will take some practice.
_________________________
Roland FP-7 / Pianoteq 4.5.1


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#986430 - 01/11/09 12:07 PM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
musdan Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 1165
Sometimes the "easy" things are difficult to get a handle on. You'll do it. \:\)

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#986431 - 01/12/09 01:18 PM Re: rhythm, rhythm, rhythm
Kymber Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 1348
Loc: MA
I have always been rhythmically challenged. I am finally getting a good grasp on it.
I do alot of my rhythm work away from the piano.
Some things that helped me (and even my very talented and expert singing teacher does this). Mark the beats in the measure with a pencil. Get a good grasp of the couting 1 and a 2 counting as well as the 1 e an a 2 e etc..
I do alot of the work with a metronome and I picked up a book that has alot of exercises in it. I will say ta as I follow along with the rhythm line- then I will jump around to different measures to keep on top of reading different rhythms quickly. This is the book I'm using: http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Readi...31783834&sr=8-6

I also heard this book was good but I haven't tried it yet. http://www.amazon.com/Sight-Read-Rhythm-...31783867&sr=8-5

It also might be good to get a book with a cd...

My current teacher also suggested to memorize the rhythm of the song before playing it.

I still have work to do but my rhythm has really improved since I have been doing this...

Good luck.
_________________________
“The doubters said, "Man cannot fly," The doers said, "Maybe, but we'll try,"
And finally soared in the morning glow while non-believers watched from below.”
― Bruce Lee

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