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As many have mentioned before, the CDs that go along with the Alfred books leave a lot to be desired in the way of accompaniment, but I have found them to be very helpful in finding the implied tempo.

I had the MIDI files for book one and could simply read the tempo directly from the file. For book two I have the CD and use it to “tap out” the tempo on a metronome. After that, like JohnFrank, I write the bmp next to the tempo notation at the top of each piece. I have been quite surprised by the temp used on several songs; some were played much faster then I would have thought, then there were those that were played much slower. One of the biggest surprises was how fast they play Amazing Grace at the end of Book one; 121 bmp!

Undone - That must be the "jazzed up" version of that classic old hymn - I played it fairly slow as I have been used to hearing over the years.

Tempos can be tricky and not just determining the "right" one (or the one that sounds best to you) but also maintaing a fairly constant tempo throughout the playing of a given piece, especially considering everything else you have to think (worry?) about - and not to even mention the accels., decels., retardandos, pauses, etc. they throw at you! But, that's where using a metronome as you practice comes in handy. Hey, but it's all part of the nuance involved in the expressive beauty of music, and something we need to master to the point of it being at least semi-automatic.

In an unrelated matter concerning navigating thru a given piece of music, does anyone know for sure how repeat signs are to be handled AFTER a DC al Fine or a DS al Fine? Specifically, I refer to those repeat signs that occur between the return to the beginning (or return to the segno sign) and the Fine. Are they to be observed again, ignored completely or is it optional with the player?

Thanks, JF

Hey JohnFrank.

My understanding is unless the composer notes otherwise, you only play the repeats once, and if you return to that section, then you ignore the repeats.

Of course, if I am not attempting to re-create what the composer wrote, and I like the repeats, then I do it. Not generally, though, as it just gives me more music to screw up....

"git-er-done" comes to mind....

gmm1 - thanks for the clarification - while you're right about having more music to screw up I'll probably decide on a song-by-song basis as to whether or not to "repeat the repeats", so to speak - I like the idea of it being optional with the performer. JF

Yea, JF, me too.

Another "trick" I use to make the piece longer is play the melody up an octave the second time through, then maybe even repeat the first back to the original octave. I do this with Brahms Lullaby to great effect. The third time through, I slow way down and play as soft as I can. Sounds like I really know what I am doing....

Yes exactly! I do the same thing with some of the pieces - including the Brahms. It would appear that you do know what you're doing!

Still another technique I often employ - not only to extend the piece but to add a little bit of a "polished touch" to it (to the extent that I know how) - is to add a simple intro and ending to the work.

You can create your own, or even easier is the common method of taking the last phrase of a song - maybe the last 2 measures or so - and just repeating them (maybe a little slower & softer) for an added ending. For a lot of pieces you can use that same ending phrase as an intro to the piece also (again maybe slowed & softened a bit). It works quite well quite often.

Yet another "trick" is to repeat the last phrase as an added ending, but instead of repeating it exactly as written, start it where the original final phrase started but take it an octave higher (or lower) on the repeat (and end it with a full two-handed chord, especially if the original ending didn't use one.)

Also, note that you don't have to reserve this "phrase repeat" for the very ending of the piece - some works sound real cool if you repeat the final phrase of the 1st part before moving on to the 2nd part - like when you're playing a song or hymn and are going from a verse into the chorus.

One other basic technique that you might want to try on certain pieces is to vary the left hand accompaniment part - say, for example, if the piece is arranged with a simple "block" chord LH pattern accompanying the RH melody, play it thru that way the first time, and then arpeggiate those LH chords the 2nd time thru, and finally, play the original block chords again on the 3rd play thru.

Probably too much info but Keep the music playing ...

JF

Duplicate post - sorry.

That's funny. I was doing this very thing with Cafe Vienna in book one... I played the left hand part for two or four measures, then picked up with the RH part whenever it felt right. I didn't realize this was... how shall I phrase it... legal?

Anything's legal - until you get caught!

Seriously, my approach is that just about anything you can & want to do that makes musical sense & adds to the interest of the piece & the pleasure you get from playing it is "fair game" - at least in the privacy of your own home (if I would be playing a copyrighted piece in public for money then that's a different story, but I'm not in any immediate danger of being in a position where that will happen!).

JF

While I agree that a lot can be done to add interest (or length) to a piece, for my own practice sessions I insist on first getting the piece down as written and hopefully at the intended tempo. After that, I’m free to embellish, or modify at will. I need to be strict with myself about this, otherwise I’m too tempted to allow “my own interpretation” of the piece to prevent me from learning what it is this particular selection is suppose to be teaching my hands and me. (I’m talking about method book pieces here.)

Undone

Undone - you're absolutely right about this - I didn't say this outright in my two posts above, but it's (more or less) taken for granted - it's only after I've pretty much "nailed down" the piece as originally arranged that I will try to spice it up or "enhance" it a little.

Sometimes it's spontaneous and sometimes it's sorta planned out - and sometimes the ideas don't occur until I go back to it for review months later. But nothing is attempted in this regard until the piece is firmly in hand (or should I say "in hands")as initially presented.

However, while we're on the subject, yet another little spicer-upper is to take that last ending phrase (maybe the last 2, 2 1/2 or 3 measures) of the piece and DOUBLE the note values of all the notes - this, in effect, also doubles the number of measures in that phrase, but more importantly slows down the ending by streching it out and emphasizing the melody. In doing both of these things this technique signals the absolute ending of the piece. This is a common, long-standing technique and could actually be done on the REPEAT of the ending that I talked about before (i.e., play thru to the ending & then repeat it while doubling the note values in both hands, i.e., treble & bass staves).

JF

I'm currently working on the old spiritual "Nobody Knows The Trouble I've Seen" in Book 2 - fairly easy piece. And, as part of my regular review routine, I'm also reworking "Hava Nagila" from 3-4 months ago, trying to polish this one off & having alot of fun with it, playing it much better than the first time thru. I was wondering if anyone else liked/disliked this piece and had trouble with it. It is 108 measures long, with a lot of time for mistakes, and especially for the left hand to tire & cramp up - did you have this problem too.

JF

Hi JF,

I love Nagila Hava, I thought it was a pretty good arrangement. It was a challenge at the time, I would be interested in trying it again if I could find the time.

OG - hope you can find the time to work on it again - it's even more interesting and fun the 2nd time around - just the intro alone is fascinating to experiment with (gradually increasing volume & speed) - maybe if you can get it nailed to your satisfaction you'll record it for the next recital or piano bar.

Some other pieces that I enjoyed working my way thru Book 2 so far were: Light and Blue, Solace, Introduction and Dance, Black Forest Polka, Etude, Opus10, No.3 & Theme from Musetta's Waltz.

JF

Hey JF, I might tackle it this weekend if I have time, my teacher keeps me pretty busy with her curriculum.

You like the same stuff I like. I loved all the ones you mentioned. I'm on Etude Opus right now and I love it. My teacher is a stickler for perfection and I had to redo it since I missed doing the 2 note phrases correctly.

I don't know when I'll ever finish it. I'm hoping one more week and I'll move on to the next. Not sure what comes next in the Alfreds all in one Adult.

I'm in the process of finishing the stuff we've been working on and she asked me to start looking at La Comparsa by Ernest Lecuona. That's going to be a big challenge for me. I don't think I'm anywhere near that level but she's a great teacher so I'm going to start it little by little. tee heeee

OG - it took me almost a whole month to get the Etude to the point where I was reasonably happy with it - but I've been away from it for awhile so I'll probably struggle with it again when I go back to review it - but it's a beautiful piece so it'll be worth it!

Some really good (and slightly tough) pieces coming up in Alfreds are: Musetta's Waltz, The Battle Hymn, and Ballin the Jack (moved on from this one, but still working on it a little each day - can't quite get it up to tempo all the way thru).

There's some really interesting looking pieces in Book 3, but I estimate at my current rate of progress I'll be in Book 2 thru the summer - hopefully finishing it up in time for the Labor Day holiday.

I'm also working on two other books simultaneously: Alfred's Adult Sacrad Piano book, Level 2 (classic old hymns) and The Big Book of Christmas Carols (intermediate level arrangements that helps to push the envelope, so to speak).

Like your Signature - heard that before, but it was many years ago - lotta truth in that!

OG, I had to choose 2 out of 3 for the summer recital La Comparsa included. I chose Spanish Nocturne - pretty much polished and El Conquistador (talk about having elephants)
Do you take it one measure at a time (I do) or do you tackle it a page at a time - or what?
C'mon I know you can do this.

Hey Therese,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm hiding under the table. tee heee. I don't want to come out of my safe spot.

Well I haven't started it yet. I was supposed to start it last week but I wanted to concentrate on finishing what she's given me before tackling that piece.

La Comparsa, that I have is the original version and from the looks of it, I'm going to take one measure at a time and nail it before I move on.

Out of curiosity, I was looking for the level and it's an advanced piece in it's original form. I'm at the Intermediate category so I'm a little intimidated right now but once I get into it with nothing else on my plate besides Alfred's I'm sure I'll feel much better.

The good thing is that I'm back to loving my practicing. For a while I was overwhelmed and was feeling really down but I talked with my teacher a couple of weeks ago. I went with half my books and I asked her to sit down and listen to me. Ever since then I feel so much more relaxed and I'm looking forward to practicing again.

How is el Conquistador? I love spanish music, not sure if it's because I am spanish. I don't think I've ever heard it before.

As I near completion of Alfred's level 2 I have been working on "Danny Boy". The arrangement is quite nice and I am enjoying playing it. I wonder if someone could direct me to other "non classical" pieces having arrangements that are at about the same level of difficulty as "Danny Boy". I'd like to practice a little more at Level 2 before I move on to Level 3.

OldFingers - good to see a post from you - I was wondering where you were.

I'm very impressed that you're about to wrap up Level 2 - you're really clipping along at a rather brisk pace thru some fairly challenging pieces!

It seems like just a couple of weeks ago that we were discussing the Chopin Etude & Ballin' The Jack (which I'm still trying to "nail down" even though I've moved on a couple of pieces).

At my current rate of progress thru Level 2 I'll probably finish it up by Labor Day - that is, if I study every remaining piece (which is debatable). I have the Level 3 book and the pieces look alot more interesting (and not that much more difficult).

In answer to your request for direction to sources of other non-classical, intermediate-level arrangements similar to "Danny Boy" you can probably find many anthologies or collections of such arrangements by searching on amazon.com or on the websites of major music publishers like HalLeonard.com or SheetMusicPlus.com.

Or perhaps better yet, by visiting a local music store that carries a number of such songbooks. That way you could browse thru them at your leisure and get a much better idea of the quality & desirability of the arrangements and make a strategic purchase right on the spot. Even major bookstores like Borders and Barnes & Noble carry a surprising number of such collections.

Another good alternative is the supplementary music collections compiled by the authors of our All-In-One series of methods. There are separate songbooks for Pop Hits, Christmas Songs, and Hymns - each with 2 levels. I can vouch for the hymn collections since I've used both Level 1 (as a supplement to "All", Level 1) and Level 2 (supplementing "All", Level 2). These two are called "Alfred's Basic Adult Sacrad Piano Book". They contain excellent arrangements of the classic, old hymns pretty much equal in style & difficulty in many cases to that of "Danny Boy".

FYI - you don't necessarily have to be exceptionally religious to enjoy playing many of the works in their hymn collections - just from strickly a musical standpoint many of these pieces have very beautiful melodies & harmonies - and like I said the arrangements, being done by the same authors, are very good (especialy in the Level 2 book).

Anyway, good luck in your search, let us know what you find (if you find a really good collection I would really want to know for my own possible aquisition) and keep the music playing!

JF