Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum easiest recorder to use/inexpensive

I completely agree. One of the additional challenges that most of us face is there's only one pianist in the house so it's difficult to optimize the sound for the room rather than for when you're seated at the bench playing. Stereo and recording equipment is difficult enough but at least you can position it and then step back (or sit down) and listen to the results.

What exactly is X and Y placement of microphones?

I can't comment on the Zoom models because I'm a social deviant who bought a M-Audio Microtrack instead of a Zoom. But I assume a Zoom can function the same way that a Microtrack or other small flash recorder can. If my assumption is wrong, someone can correct me.

A Microtrack can function with its supplied stereo T-mike that easily pops into a 1/8" jack on the top. I believe Zoom's supplied mike(s) is/are built-in, but either way it's no big deal.

It can also function with external mikes (phantom-power or non-phantom) that feed into 1/4" jacks on the top. So, if you buy a Zoom or a Microtrack and want a better quality recording, you can upgrade to better microphones.

You can also work out the X Y placement suggested here and experiment to minimize room acoustics. You will never get rid of them completely when recording an acoustic piano though.

But here's the thing. Even though I own a pair of Audio-Technica AT's, if I want to check on how something sounds, I don't want to spend the time setting up and making connections, and I have zero interest in getting my laptop involved. I just pop in the T-mike, place the Microtrack nearby, push the record button to begin and push it again to stop recording. Then I listen to my recording through the supplied earbuds. It's never a state-of-the-art recording, but if your purpose is what you described [to check on your playing] it will do the job admirably.

Now if you want to set up a pair of mikes in a semi-permanent position and put together a home-recording studio, a flash recorder should not be the core of your system (as others here have pointed out). The pre-amps on all of the mini flash recorders are simply not up to that task.

Here's a picture that shows x-y placement.



This came from the Shure web site . The article it's from shows different microphone positions for various instruments, including grand and upright pianos, and their characteristics.

Another shot:

I, too, use the Zoom H4 and find it easy to use. I originally tried using it strictly from an audio standpoint using the built-in microphones. Because of spurious noise in the house I was not pleased with the results (too much background hiss). So, I now record directly from the line-out on the DP to the input jacks on the H4 -- and I'm very happy with it. Transferring files to the PC is not intuitive -- you have to turn the H4 off, plug in the USB cord, select the connection function and then it acts like an external disk drive. Not terribly difficult, just extra steps.

Ed

btw, you could use very good quality external microphones(condensor) plugged into your zoom and get the best of both worlds!.

Hey Babs1,

"...really easy to use."

The Zoom or something similar fits this description. Self contained, convenient, decent software.

Mr. S-H's recommendations are very good, represents higher end, professional, recording techniques - obviously.

I fall in the group that recommends a cheaper alternatie, buying the laptop a microphone. Here's a good link that talks about cheap mics (link)

Either use recording software that may have come with your computer or download some freeware (like Audacity), preferably something with an equalizer.

Window's Sound Recorder (All Programs -> Accessories -> Entertainment) being the absolute, bare minimum, but might be enough to get you started.

Make short sample recordings (loud and soft...sorry...ppp and fff), move the mic around the room (laptop attached), the piano, making any adjustments your software allows, until you get the sound you like.

You should be able to find at least one spot in the room that will give you the best compromise in sound. Depends on the piano, the location in the room, the nature of the walls, ceiling and floor covering, this spot might be on or near the piano or some place further away. It might not be the same spot for every piece.

Cost effective and simple.

If you don't like the sound of the resulting recordings, or are getting tired of having to run to the far corner of the room to press the Enter key on the laptop, start saving your pennies.

I've got to learn how to write shorter posts...

l's dad

The mic + laptop option is indeed a cheaper alternative. I just want to point out that, while others have managed to produce very nice sounding recordings with such a setup that had no clipping or distortion, I personally was never able to do so. I tore my hair out repeatedly trying to get my Samson USB mic to record something, anything, without distortion, and yes I fiddled for HOURS with mic levels and placement.

That is why I am such a Zoom fanatic. Just plop it down, press the red button, and you've got yourself a distortion-free recording.

I love my Zoom.

• Mahlzeit, thanks for the tip. Well I did what you asked me to do, AUDACITY was easy to install. That was the easy part. Well I did what you told me to do, I clicked the Big red button and I shouted, the cat ran , I clicked stop and play and there was NO sound. And yes I made sure
  the volume button was on , I also went into the control panel to check audio setup and it was fine. I did 5 takes of this holllering and still no recording. The cat heard all the hollering and is now hiding under the bed . Then I got an error message code #C00D1199. which translated into audio output device error. So i guess that means I need to invest in a mic . I don't have a MP3 player or a digital camera. :rolleyes:

• Lizzy's Dad, the mic idea doesn't sound bad, I still don't know what brand of mic to buy.

• Ok guys, so what is the difference anyway between the H2 and H4?

Maybe if that rumor holds up about Uncle Sam sending out tax rebates , I could invest in a ZOOM. That is ONLY, if the mic to laptop idea doesn't play out. That is if the mailman puts it in the right box. We've gone through 5 mailmen in the last 2 years around here. I can't even get a decent pizza around here.

Babs - what brand/model of laptop do own?

Sure sounds like you don't have one built in.

Check and be sure you have a mic port (again, I'm sure you do, but I was wrong once already).

Babs, I think if you have no mic, you would get an error message at the time of recording. An audio *output* device error wouldn't have anything to do with a microphone, which is an *input* device.

Do you have a connector for an external microphone at least? (Probably next to the headphones output.)

If you do, try what I described again but now with an external microphone attached.

If you have no external microphone, then put a pair of headphones into the microphone input and shout something into the headphones. (Yes, you read that correctly.) Now Audacity should have recorded at least something.

If this doesn't record anything either, then you're doing something else wrong.

• Mahlzeit, I received the error message after I hit the play button. the error message went on to say to try changing the audio output device associated with the player I rechecked all the audio settings under the control panel and they seemed to be fine.

• gmm, I have a Dell Inspiron B120, that is 4 years old. There are 3 USB ports.

thanks guys I think maybe I just need to invest in a good mic.

Babs: Can you load any music file into Audacity and play it? (For example, an MP3 file?)

It is possible that Audacity isn't configured correctly. Go to Edit, Preferences, Audio I/O. Make sure your soundcard is selected there and recording channels is 1.

In the Quality section you may have to set default sample format to 16-bit.

Also, it would help to know what version of Audacity you have installed.

This doesn't have so much to do with trying to use the internal microphone: regardless of what mic you'll be using, first you need to get Audacity (or another audio application) to work.

Well, Babs, the good news is you do have a mic jack on the left side.

It appears their is no built-in mic, or at least I cannot find it in the manual.

So, off to radio shack, eh???

double post :rolleyes:

This was my experience as well. Although the microphone I used wasn't the best, it was a decent enough condensor mic that I should have been able to produce an acceptable recording with it. I also tried lots of placements but the real problem was the laptop itself. Admittedly, the one I used is ancient by laptop standards (2000).

The second thing that I disliked was that the area around my piano looked like a computer lab. Although I do use a tripod to place my zoom, it folds up in seconds and is easily stashed along with the zoom when I'm not using it. I seldom use the AC adapter with the Zoom so I normally just leave it connected to the tripod, fold up the legs and it's out of sight.

Babs1: if you do a search on the forum for "recording" you'll get a lot of matches including some good discussions of different alternatives. Since you're looking for cheap and simple you might not be interested but if at some point in the future you decide you want to do more this is a topic that understandably has been much discussed.

Since the Zoom provides phantom power, I might invest in better microphones at some point in the future since although the ones in the Zoom do make credible recordings the built-ins are the weak link. A pretty good pair of mics (like Mr S-H's) can be had for $100-$200 and a boom stand for less than $50. With that setup plus a Zoom you've got a setup that'll make very good recordings.

Since my webcam is in another room from the piano/organ now, I am no longer free to record schmaltz.

Monica K. mentioned the new Casio Exilen series that's youtube ready. I'm going to go check it out today. I'll let you know what I think.

Yes, but...

One thing about the Zoom that was also annoying to me was this -- in order to put it somewhere optimal for mic placement, you had to have it out of reach of the piano bench. So you had to put it somewhere, then turn it on, then go sit down, play your piece, then get up and go turn it off. Plug in the phones and listen, etc. PITA.

Also, you really need a tripod to place it even reasonably well. There is no tripod mount, except for that stupid strap-on thing they include as an obvious afterthought. You can't get to the SD card with that thing on, so you have to take it off each time you pull the SD card to upload a file (alternative of plugging it in via USB requires too many steps and is slow and poorly engineered).

I tried rigging up a custom mic stand to hold the thing, but it was not a satisfactory rig.

Anyway, if you assume that one solution to the placement problem is to have it sit next to you (on a table or something next to your bench), and hook up a couple of mics...well, the cables from the mics tend to constantly pull the little thing over on its side on the tripod. You can just lay it down on its side to begin with, but you're gonna get noise when you move it etc.

Generally, a remarkable PITA. I imagine it would be fine for recording lessons and so forth... but a simple Olympia digital voice recorder for $79 would be, as well.