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Hello,

I am about 3-4 weeks into my grand piano search and I feel dizzy from all the information and contradictory opinions on piano quality. I think I have narrowed my search to a Baldwin BP 178, a Ritmuller GP 170R, or a Seiler ED 168. These are in my price range and I have seen and handled all 3 and like them in one way or another. I also have a line on a 2005 Kawai GE 30 for $9200+tax. Can anyone give their advice or knowledge on these pianos and help a drowning man? Thank you.

Well, FrankieFingers, as for the value of opinions, the one that counts most is your own. It's understandable that you might be overwhelmed; for one thing, there really is a lot of information coming your way, and for another, you will be to piano sellers as the red meat is to the caged lion.

I would suggest that you slow down somewhat, and that you audition any piano you are seriously interested in three times, with at least a day between sessions. You might make recordings, and take notes to help you. This process will help you to know your own opinion. While you're there, you might think about how comfortable you are with the sales staff at the store, and if they're the manufacturer-authorized reseller. Both could be useful if you need warranty service in the future.

The second one that matters, if you are looking at used pianos, is that of your piano technician, whom you should engage to examine any serious prospect for condition, and for an estimate of the local market value. Sellers of used pianos are notorious for their failing memories, and many believe their old junker is a valuable museum antique, with a harp made of solid gold.

We love piano stories here at PW, so write back again, telling us about which pianos you like and why, and your experience at the various points-of-sale.
Best of luck to you.

Clef,

Thank you. The one disadvantage I have is I played a Kimball Organ from 8 to 18 years old and am 42 and haven't touched keys of anything since then. I am now in a position where I have a big enough home to accommodate my dream of owning and learning the piano. The feel of a piano is foreign to me and therefore I am basically looking for quality build and reliability at my price point. I love the sound and feel of almost every Steinway i have seen, and would like something with that "European" tone and what I felt as a lighter touch. Again my ignorance is going to show through in spades but I am a quick study and will accept all the help I can get. I am currently on my computer and have come across a Feuric dealer in Chicago and may go look at them as well.

Take a pianist along with you and get him/her to play as well. That way you will get a better idea of the sound.

Above all remember there is no hurry. Take your time and look round. It is a buyer's market.

Hi
I mirror some of your personal experience. I think I will repeat everyones's advice that you should take your time.

I began the piano about 9 month ago and purchased a very inexpensive upright to start. By the way, I am older than you and retired. After three months I heard the problems with this inexpensive piano. I went in search of a grand piano. I learned a lot, bought a rebuilt grand piano and enjoyed the quality of the sound in my new grand.

Now that my playing has improved I see many more features on my wish list than I had originally.

They may not all be possible in a single piano, and I still love my grand, but as you develop your needs, goals and understanding will change.

Best of luck on the search.

Richpink

Provided pianos are in similar condition prep-wise, I would suspect the first two mentioned ones to be the strongest of the lot. Get someone to play and see if my hunch was right.

Good luck!

Norbert

Norbert,

I have noticed your enthusiasm about Ritmuller, you sell these piano's correct? I may be thinking of another brand possibly, but I have heard the Ritmuller and it is visual amazing and sounds really good to me. A pianist played the Baldwin and it too sounded great to me. Have you or anyone else had any experience with Feurich? Theres a dealer here in Chicago that sells Fazioli and other very high end pianos and have Feurich in their lineup as well. I will be there tomorrow to see for myself, of course any input on it before hand would be great. Thank you to everyone that has responded so far I appreciate it.

Probably the Fuerich pianos you are talking about are successors to the Wendl and Lung pianos, manufactured by Hailun. Very worthwhile auditioning.

Any of the ones you mention, including the Kawai, could be good pianos for you. Don't get too hung up on the "brand preferences" around here. Give yourself the time to hear the difference between the pianos.

Best wishes and keep us updated.

The Feuric are built by Hailun. They are chinese through and through the way Yamaha and Kawai are Japanese. Most "economy" pianos from China use the action and strings from Germany to entice, but the Feuric use their own Chinese materials. I am not saying this as a bad thing but it does give a noob pause considering the hesitant nature Chinese pianos are received to begin with. I am not concerned with the name on the front as I will not be selling unless it is to upgrade, which most places will give back %100 of purchase price towards the purchase of an upgrade.

Not to sound negative, and this sounds good on paper, but from what I've read in the past, the dealers allows you 100% of what you paid against the retail price of the upgrade; or, whatever they choose. So, if this option carries a lot of weight with you, keep in mind that unless specifics are spelled out on paper, you are at the dealers mercy on this option.

And, that option is only valid if the dealer is still around in years to come.

When you find the right piano, and the right dealer, you will know it.

Rick

There's a thread in the FAQ's at the top of the forum about buy back programs. It's worth reading.

The upshot is to ignore the buy back as a bargaining chip for the dealer and make the best cash deal you can now.

Kurt

Any ' buy back - trade up guarantee' is based on not revealing what is going on.
What 'is' going on is that the new piano will be sold at or near new list price.

So, while one hand giveth, the other one taketh.

Never forget that you, the buyer, will always get the short end of the stick.

Norbert

Frankie:

Yes, we sell Ritmueller but not because we couldn't sell any other.

As dealer many other things are important to us besides just the piano.
Such as their competive position,, the stability of the company, the consistency of their overall product line up, future plans and manpower, i.e. designers used.

In this regard it struck me somewhat peculiar that renowned designer Lothar Thomma chose the Pearl River company out of many to ensure his own legacy.

This despite many other offers made by others.

When you're in your 70's you don't do this if your work is meant to leave only a temporary, fleeting impression.

Simply speaking Mr. Thomma knew what he could do when all the right forces are coming together. In in the case of these newly designed pianos, they were.

If such success doesn't make one a little 'enthusiastic' at times - don't know what will.

Especially when discerning buyers are taking note of it and consistently appear to be coming to same conclusion.

Needless to say: full respect to all others.
You shop - it's your money.

Norbert

Rickster,

Funny you mention the dealer because if the Ritmuller dealer was at all polite or even looked like he enjoyed what he did for a living I may have pulled the trigger on it. Of course it could be a blessing in disguise because I am still searching and learning of other manufacturers. I looked at the Feurich today and it sounded beautiful. I will admit that I was focused on German parts so much that are in most other brands that I am admittedly nervous about the Feuric not having the familiar abel, renner, components. The people at PianoForte selling the Feurich obviously love what they do so that is a plus.

The Feurich, Hailun, Baldwin and Brodmann are all other good options.
And yes I agree, the dealer and the support he offers is equally important.
Which means relationships still matter long after money has been deposited in bank. Let's always remember: there's never just one solution for everybody.
Enjoy you search, best wishes to you!
Norbert

Norbert, I have to admit, you are indeed a great salesman! (As well as a great blues piano player )

Frankiefingers, it sounds like you are narrowing things down a bit and getting close to the prize.

Best regards,

Rick

Thanks Rick!

The honor is neither sought nor deserved.

But I (humbly) take "the Blues player" bit........

Norbert

Frankie,

Don't be too harsh on the Ritmüller dealer, he might have been having a bad day. If it's who I think it is (near north suburb?), he has been friendly and helpful on several occasions in my shopping experience.

That said, you also can't go wrong with Tom at PianoForte. Great people, great pianos.

I have no peofessional affiliation with any of these stores or people, but in my quest for a great piano I have been treated well at both stores (and a couple stores you didn't mention. Hinsdale and Geneva are both very nice suburbs to visit!).

Larry.

I law,

I've been there twice to Skokie, and it seems that I'm looking at Ritmuller and not his $30,000+ instruments and he was dismissive both times towards me. I was at PianoForte today looking and the only piano I can afford there, the Feurich, which sounded beautiful, and they were really nice. I went to Geneva but their "economy" brands they carry are not as revered as the 3 on my short list. What is in Hinsdale beside Steinway?

Great!! Put it on your short list, then.

Please, oh, please don't get caught up sales pitches about "parts" that are in a piano. The quality of materials *certainly does* matter (a lot) BUT sales brouchures and salesmen are not (at least IMHO) usually giving you the information needed to determine that. For example, a salesman could tell you: this piano has german components and a solid soundboard, while "that" piano has a laminate soundboard and some chinese parts.

With a clear implication which is better.

Really? Is a solid soundboard at that level of piano (value priced) better than a laminate? It's a question that a piano engineer has answers about (check it up on this forum... there has be some wonderful discussion around this topic), but a shopper or salesman doesn't have have the knowledge to really proclaim which is better.

From a pianist's perspective, I can tell you that generally I prefer a nice laminate soundboard over a really cheap or poorly crafted solid board.

And my 2 cents worth about "renner" and "abel" parts: they are both excellent companies. I think Renner manufactures some actions that are among the best in the world. However they are companies that must do business. I don't fault them for that. So, they'll manufacture something far more lowly than the Fazioli action if you pay them to do it. If you buy a piano with an action manufactured by renner, don't think you are buying the same action that is in a Fazioli. All you're buying is an action that was manufactured by the same company.

Anyway, in summary of my thoughts: buy the better piano (whichever it may be). Not the better buzz words or better sales brouchure.