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I just got that email from someone (whom I won't name to protect his identity). My initial reaction to the email was, "dude thanks but no thanks." I don't know how I feel about salesmen using this forum as an advertising medium. hmmm *shrug*

is it a dealer who participates here?

We discovered a new "champian" ad today ourselves.

A local dealer presently offers new pianos and grands here at a ridiculously low price.

We called him and that's what you get:

Pick up the uncrated piano in warehouse yourself,find a mover and tuner yourself and next buy our bench for
$ 200 extra!

I could only think this to be pretty *cool*.

It's certainly not the *hot* deal one would expect reading the ad......

OUCH!!

norbert

You've gotta be smart to buy things today. I remember when I bought my Woodbury, we went to another store to check out their pianos and make sure that I really liked the other one better. Well, I mentioned that I didn't like the action on one of their $30,000 pianos. The guy asked me if he could watch me play because he was 100% sure that I didn't know what I was doing and had my fingers up by the fallboard or something. So I played a piece and shut the guy up.

Lots of dealers are really trustworthy and honest, but you have to remember that they will get paid regardless of whether or not you know what you're doing.

I just got that email from someone (whom I won't name to protect his identity).

Mikester, this dealer doesn't deserve to have his identity protected. Every dealer here knows that this is just not to be done. The only way to break these guys from sucking eggs is to expose them, each and every time they send someone an email like this.

I received an email too offering sales' prices ..Actually, three of them but... I only saved the last one.. All different people..

Why is it wrong to solicit someone who's expressed interest, on a public forum, in buying a product that you sell? Why is it necessarily sleazy in any way?

Several reasons. First, this site is a for-profit venture, and the owner has pianos to sell on this site. You and I are here to drive hit count, not to compete with him. That is the primary purpose of these forums. The stated purpose, or "official" purpose of the piano forum is to provide a source of information, a place where people who have questions can talk to people who have answers, as a benefit to those seeking advice. Answers, by the way, that come from people with no agenda, who do not stand to gain financially from the information they give. It is *not* a playground for salesmen to hunt customers.

So, you and I serve two purposes - we help drive hit count, and we either ask questions or give answers, and hopefully to have a little fun in the process. We are *not* here compete with the host.

If people come to feel that instead of the forum being a relatively unbiased and knowledgeable source of information it is a pack of salesmen trying to sell them something, they won't have any respect at all for the information they're getting - they'll see it all as suspect, and much of the time the very reason they came here in the first place is they became so confused by all the spin and conflicting stories they got while shopping that they wanted someone who is *not* trying to sell them something and who doesn't stand to gain from the information they give, to help them sort it all out.

Additionally, because it is plainly stated in the forum rules that you are not to sell, those who *are* in the business of selling and are professionals, respect this rule and understand that if we all start trying to use the forum as a source of prospects for sales the forum will deteriorate into nothing more than a circus.

That's why you won't see any of the respected dealers and technicians on the forum trying to sell things. In fact, even getting a little too slanted in their public posts toward the brands they sell will *and should* result in being called on it. What we do in public can be controlled through public discussion and being chastised should we err. But emailing people behind the scenes is dirty pool, given all I've stated above, because you end up right where we are trying to avoid ending up - with people getting bombarded with sales pitches and slanted information like they get from store salesmen. That's why when someone does it, they should be exposed for it. It's the sleasiest abuse of the forum you can do, and it is disrespectful not only to the owner of the forum, but to each and every person who posts here ethically, with the intent of participating in the proper spirit of the forum, for the benefit of all.

I agree with Larry.
Dealers should not solicit sales on this forum for the reasons that he already stated.
There is also the issue of “happy customers”…Anyone who would like to recommend a certain piano brand or a dealer should do it PUBLICLY and not by PM.
Otherwise, it is possible that some salespeople may shamelessly recommend themselves to prospective buyers by PM, pretending to be a former “happy customer” of the dealer they recommend.
Transparency is the only way to weed out those salespeople.
I think that any person who gets a PM or an Email from a dealer or a “happy customer” should post it for everyone to see, including the screen name of the sender.

Mikester,

It's blatantly against the rules here. We've been through this kind of situation before. It's also unfair to the people here who *could* be soliciting but don't because they are following the rules. Please don't let the one who is breaking the rules get away with it and make the ones who play fair feel like chumps.

Either *everyone* should get to solicit, or no one should.

And I don't think we want everyone to be allowed to, because the consumer-friendly nature of this forum will instead become a shark pool and scare all the fishies away.

Expose the abuser or at the very least report him to Frank. Frank has done nothing but good for piano consumers here and at very little reward. Please return the favor and help him keep the place clean.

Regards,

Rick Clark

Mea Culpa

I actually am a Happy Customer and do not work for (but will be apprenticing in the new year) with a local rebuild shop.

I did PM someone about the rebuild shop before I decided to apprentice as the person was enquiring in their original post about shops in the area. But I also offered alternate shops in the area who I had had pleasant dealings with but ultimately did not buy a piano from them as they did not have the one that sang to me at my budget at that time. So I was not selling my product as I didn't have an conflict of interest at that time.

Fifty slashes with a wet noodle and I know I will be banished forever. Boy I feel better already.

Seriously, Rick, Larry, Ori. I agree with you and I do feel bad about having PM'd as I will have a conflict of interest shortly (but didn't have one at the time I PM'd). I promise not to do it again. This place is crazy enough without selling getting in the way of important (and excessively long and personal) threads about fish, free pianos to charitable causes and of course Estonia...

ROFLMAO!

Truly sorry, couldn't help myself. No particular intimation intended.

tritone,

Nothing wrong with PMing and nothing wrong with making consumer-consumer recommendations or reviews of piano shops. That's what PW is about. It's not the same thing as sneakily "working" PWers in order to sell them something you have.

Regards,

Rick Clark

Hmmmm, I'd question that.

In my opinion it's OK for a dealer to reply to a thread saying "dear enquirer, I sell those kind of pianos. If you want to chat, send me a PM"

As long as you are at least 2500 miles from 'enquirer'.

The legit dealers on here list their products for all to see. If Enquirer PMs you on their own, then it is surely ok to have a conversation. I think the dealer offering to initiate the conversation crosses the line.

No offense, but your opinion does not change the rules. If a dealer or a salesman wants to "chat", write a post to the forum and chat there. That's the whole point, you know - to publicly discuss things. If you've got something you want to "chat" about, doing it publicly allows others to share in the "chat", and keeps any remarks made open to correction should the dealer or salesman wanting to "chat" decide to be less than factual.

Taking a conversation with someone looking for advice or information out of the public arena defeats the entire purpose of the forum, and opens things up to the high possibility of abuse. If you want to "chat", do it here.

This is precisely why any conversations that take place should stay in the public forum. Any agendas a particular person may have can be challenged and corrected by others.

I'm with Larry on this one.

I dunno, when I was shopping last year there were a few questions no one answered publicly and I would have been very glad to have a private email at that time from anyone.

Chris, if they could not answer them publically why would they do so privately?