Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Has anyone seen the new Larry Fine edition?

I understand that a new edition will be published next week. I've heard that some of the piano ratings got shuffled significantly.

This is all rumor, but I was told:
Estonia is now in Tier 2.
M&H is now in Tier 2.

I'm most interested in why a brand was moved up or down, not the specific ranking.

Has anyone heard more?

You must be referring to the 2007-2008 supplement, which will be available June 18th, according to the publishers website.

In the meantime, Ori must have gotten hold of an advance copy, he posted about it Here.

Originally posted by Tickler:

Yes, I have seen the new supplement.
It is more comprehensive than the previous supplements and gives current reviews for many brands.
The new supplement also introduces an updated rating system,
It is simpler than the previous scale with the star ratings, and it is dividing the industry to two general groups and four main tiers.
Tier one and two are considered to be “performance pianos”, where performance is the dictating factor, while tiers three and four are considered to be “consumer grade pianos”, where compromises in materials, workmanship or work methods are more acceptable in order to keep the price down.

Each of the four tiers is divided to three subgroups (for example 1A, 1B, 1C), except the lowest 4th tier, which is divided to four subgroups.

Of course, Larry Fine’s ratings are not meant that he is the “ultimate judge” about pianos, as he himself states in the supplement. Also, it does not necessarily represent his personal taste.
But from the many contacts he has with technicians, dealers and industry people, and through his own considerable experience in the industry, he makes the best effort to “find a consensus of informed opinions, to the extent it may exist”.

His ratings take into account musical design, workmanship, durability, quality control and the perceived dependability of the company in honoring the warranty.

Regarding the "rating rumors" mentioned in the original post, Estonia was already rated in tier two in the last edition of the book that was printed in 2001.
In the current supplement, however, Estonia is rated at the top of tier 2 (2A) along with Mason & Hamlin and Schimmel Konzert series (the classic Schimmel line is rated in a lower group.

Mr. Fine attached a comment in regards to Estonia alongside the ratings.
He said:

Estonia, formerly at the bottom of Group 2, has become so much more advanced over the last five years that it may belong in Group 1. However, this fact has not yet been appreciated or confirmed by much of the piano industry, so I’m testing the waters by putting it in group 2A.



In regards to the Mason & Hamlin he said:

The ratings of Mason & Hamlin has been reduced slightly to group 2A, it is still a great instrument, but I believe that the company’s manufacturing approach is more consistent with group 2 than group 1.


I hope this answers the question of "what makes a brand go up or down" in the ratings.


In any case, the material in the new supplement is much more updated and very interesting. I would recommend this supplement, which also features an updated pricing guide, not just to buyers actively looking for a piano, but also to anyone interested in the piano industry, its trends and pianos in general.
Seekers of general information about piano construction, and those who would like to learn how to better evaluate instruments or understand some of the “techniques” in selling/buying pianos should definitely get the last addition of “ The piano book”, but The current supplement and its pricing guide is invaluable to anyone who wants to stay updated, keeping track of the changes in the industry and the various instruments.

The supplement has some really interesting reading in it, and alongside the book is extremely useful, in my opinion, to piano buyers.
I provided the bits above as a response to the original poster, giving readers a “taste” as to the changes in the rating system and info in the supplement, but please don’t ask me (here or by PM’s) for any additional information since this is not fair to Larry Fine, the author of the book.

I would strongly suggest that readers order their own copies and enjoy the useful reading!

Very interesting! In the last supplement he had some critical comments about M&H outsourcing some parts to China, so I suspect that's what he's getting at with the comment about manufacturing approach.

I'll be eager to read the new supplement. Thanks for the heads up.

Does anyone know what parts M&H are outsourcing to China?

Not definitely, but in the 06-07 supplement, Fine says "My understanding is that the owners of M&H have a strong connection with China and over the past few years have actively sought out piano components from that country, including but not limited to cast-iron plates, action parts, and metal hardware."

Both Amazon.com and Amazon.ca say the new 2007-2008 supplement will not be available through them until September.

If anyone hears of a source where it is available sooner, I'm sure many of us would appreciate knowing that, too.

Regards,

Larry will be selling them in Kansas City next week at the PTG international convention. BTW this is the 50th year of PTG.
I will be getting my copy at the convention. Can't wait. I hope the ratings are still favorable in regards to the Walters!!!

You can order it directly from Brookside Press.

...well, the workers who build the pianos are Chinese!

Anyone have any opinions about what Fine's statement about "the company's approach is more consistent with group 2 than group 3" means?

Thank you!

Thanks for all the replies. The info helps me understand the rumors I've heard. It doesn't change my opinion of M&H -- I still love those pianos.

I'll have to get a copy of the book myself to read the whole thing.

Per the other thread, it's also currently available for download at ebooks.com

honkytonk :

Thank you! I have done so.

Regards,

2A must be pretty darn good and seems to include two brands that are just a hair away from 1C.

Barnes & Noble has them online - they ship w/n 24 hours; slight discount if you are a B&N member.

Shigeru Kawai as high as Steinway...

Dropping Mason & Hamlin down because the Chinese can make a few decent parts and offer them cheaper. Why wouldn't you buy a screw or two from them. (Absurd)

..mmmm Hallet Davis above Pearl River and Essex...Hailun in the same class....(That's a joke)and Nordiska & Story & Clark rated above them all...please. If anything they are all in the same class and category.

Young Chang hasen't proven anything yet in the same class with Yamaha & Kawai.

My respect for the Larry Fine book is definitely waivering!

I'd like to see some statistics as to who buys the supplement to aid in their buying decisions vs. who buys the supplement to see how the piano they already owned scored in the new rating system.

Were you among the piano technicians surveyed by Larry Fine for his Piano Book 2007-2008 Supplement?

I was not among those that were surveyed.