Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum The sad fate of old pianos in the UK!

Just came across this:

how we fell out of tune with the piano

This is the sad reality not only in the UK but in most of the world except in some Asian countries where learning the piano is regarded as a valuable component of a child's education.

Robert.

Many of those old English pianos are not worth keeping or restoring. That is a fact.
I believe to notion of old pianos are junk is being pushed by piano retailers.
Sales are down; the main competitor to new pianos is used.
Did you notice in the article that the factory said 75% of their revenue is restoration!!!!
Piano stores that just retail would like used pianos to disappear.
I had a client call today from a music school. They want to get rid of their old Steinway "L"
because they were told by a dealer is was not usable. They need to replace it. So they did purchase a new Steinway. After speaking with me and finding out the cost of restoration and finding out what can be expected as a final result, they are no longer thinking of getting rid of it. She was shocked at my information VS other info she was told.
Rebuilding vintage grand pianos is very viable; many would like us to think otherwise.
30 years ago rebuilders were no threat to dealers; today they are, if they are doing great work.

Can you imagine how it would look if students were learning on a 80 year old Steinway that performed and looked like new? It could/would take sales away from a retailer.

Cheers.

Its sad to see old pianos scrapped tho. If something works, albeit imperfectly, then it could still form a tool of inspiration to the young and disadvantaged by donating or leasing.
I dread to think of the number of pianos that have been scrapped locally and that could have instead found a place in my home.
I would love to give an old piano a home.
And all these kids these days that have never had one in their homes. Never experienced a real living instrument.

"Today, only about 4,000 acoustic pianos are sold in Britain each year — around 800 grands and 3,000 or so uprights — compared with 14,000 in the late 1960s. Hardly any are made in Britain."

I wonder what the numbers are for the US. I hardly even know anybody who has an acoustic piano in their house. Of those 75% are unplayable and no one plays (it was my grandmothers), 20% might be out of tune decent uprights and a couple of grands, 3-4% are probably well playing and in tune decent pianos (regular student/players most likely). 1-2% a top instrument in top shape. By all appearances the acoustic piano is from another era and will never regain it's dominant position. If history teaches us anything, is that after the market in China matures, there will be very little room for any manufacturers of acoustic pianos.

I play on an old C.Bechstein (c1900) once a month, for the staff at a hospital (and for my own pleasure ). I hear its tuning getting noticeably getting worse month by month after every tuning, which is once every six months, or before it's used for a concert. And it's hardly ever played by anyone else but me......

Though I enjoy playing it, I don't think I'd be able to live with an instrument that goes out of tune so quickly. When I get back home to my (high-end) digital, it's almost a shock to the system to hear a perfectly tuned piano again . It's not difficult to understand why ancient pianos end up gathering dust and eventually get scrapped - there's only so much a pianist can put up with before it seems......too much trouble and too costly.

Its sad. People seem to be giving up on them.
Id sooner have an old imperfect acoustic than a modern plastic perfecto.

Sad, but the value of this uprights are nothing, there are not worth restoring nor in playable condition , so in part I can understand , not because it is a piano means is good. A lot of rubish were done at the beggining of XXth century, thousands of brands wich designed insrtuments more because was a good business than because passion in music. Ofcourse, a Broadwood shall never be in this kind of factory, they could be much more usefull to provide parts and veneers to other restoration projects.

Old Bechsteins usually have loose tuning pins and high friction against the strings that make them very difficult to tune well. I doubt you would have the same experience with other well maintained grand pianos.

Have you played other grands?

I tuned an old Bechstein today. I think it was restrung about 30 or 40 years ago, with the original pinblock which I understand goes back to 1907 or so. It has been a couple of years since I last tuned it, but it was barely out of tune now, just enough to be noticeable.

What is stopping you? This is a very easy dream to fulfill. If people are paying to have them hauled off to the dump, you can get them for free.

I've played lots of old grands over the years, in churches, hospitals and nursing/residential homes, stately homes, town halls, even restaurants, pubs and hotels. The state of their tuning was often very variable but I wouldn't know how they have been maintained, or how often they've been tuned (if ever.....). Unlike the C.Bechstein that I've been playing once a month for the past three years, I never got to play any of those other old pianos for very long.

A few - a very few - of them I'd be happy to have as my only piano at home, if that was possible (it isn't, which is why I have a digital). There is one magnificent old piano (whose make I can't remember) that belongs to the monarchy (a.k.a. the Queen....) that I spent every free hour of one weekend playing, whilst I was staying there. But of course, it's very well maintained. (And one doesn't ask Her Majesty questions about how often her piano is tuned... ).

Simply lack of space. This is a small house, most houses in working class England are small compared to your palatial homes; )
Just don't have the space for one. Not even room for a DP!
We will be moving in a year or two. Hopefully to a bigger house!

This is a sad article in some ways, but it's only one part of the story. As has been said, many of these old uprights are simply not worth restoring. Now, I do know someone who rebuilt a Challen upright, and performed the full works on it - completely rebuilt action, plank, soundboard, everything. The reason was that it was a family piano, with sentimental value and the family wanted to preserve it. However, in this case the restoration was something like £7,000 and the piano may have been worth £2,000 after restoration if you're lucky. Yes, musically it was now a wonderful piano, and yes, you'd probably have to spend £7,000 to get the same quality new, but you see where I'm coming from. The Challen in question is at least a modern piano. Many of the old pianos are straight strung over dampers, wooden framed in some cases, and the musical results of restoration wouldn't even be worth it unless you specifically wanted that kind of piano.

While many of the old uprights are being thrown out, many people are buying digital pianos. This is a positive thing because it is introducing people to the piano again. For us on the forum, the piano is a passion and nothing less than the best we can afford will do. However, for others, the piano is an extra recreational activity, not something they are immersed in. They want their pianos to be convenient, not take up too much room, and not require maintenance. They want it to be playable and have a decent sound. For many families, the Yamaha Clavinova or the Roland Digitals are the best pianos they would consider. Actually, these digital instruments are good, and when faced with the choice of an already bad instrument that WILL deteriorate because the family won't spend any money, or a digital that will be consistently decent for many years, perhaps the digital is better. Then there are those of us who have a digital because we simply can't fit or afford an acoustic, or we have them as second instruments.

The question of rebuilding grands and high quality uprights is a whole different matter. In the UK, the rebuilding trade has not yet proved a competitor for Yamaha and Kawai, but there are many of the high quality makers are selling more of their rebuilt pianos than their new ones. There are exemplary rebuilding workshops in the UK, one in particular I can think of (actually often many work together trading various jobs, like soundboard replacement, finish, action work could be done in different workshops), and the pianos will be of the highest quality.

Two things get my goat a little in the rebuilding world - or rather the retail end of the rebuilding world - and here are the two examples:

A friend of mine had a very high quality german grand (if I name it, it will give too much away already), that was close to 100 years old. She went to the shop that retailed this brand and they told her 'oh it needs so much work done to it, you would really be better to buy one of our mid-range uprights than to attempt to have this piano restored, but we'll trade it in for you'..... So they duly traded the grand for the upright, and had the grand rebuilt themselves, and sold it as a premium rebuild - which it was, and it was beautiful. However, this girl, who is a pianist, should really have had the full facts presented to her.

Another thing that gets my goat a little is that a certain other very famous maker and sons sell their rebuilt pianos for more than the cost of their new pianos, particularly if the piano has a 'rare veneer' - which is practically fifty percent of their rebuilds - or ornate casing, or period style, which pretty much covers all of their rebuilds. This is recognizing the fact that the rebuilt pianos are as good as new, and so they price them out of the market in order to encourage people to buy new. Fine, business is business, in both cases, but it is very telling.

Sadly, many people that have a fine grand, often a Bechstein, Bluthner, even Steinway, Bosendorfer, that is in very poor condition are advised by retailers, and lesser-educated well-meaning friends 'oh just get a new Yamaha/Kawai/Boston/Brodmann/Feurich/Pearl River' rather than have their piano rebuilt to concert standard. Having a full rebuild done costs less than buying a new Yamaha C2X, and the quality is at least equal. By the way, that's not a slight on the C2X, Yamaha is a wonderful piano, but it's just an easy comparison to make. Of course, it's also fair to say that people should shop around, and if they find they prefer the sound of a new piano than a rebuild, they should of course buy new if funds permit.

At ebay UK you can find old pianos for 0.99p ... and still they won't go!!!

Unfortunately these were of not very good quality to start with and restoration would be too expensive to make it worthy. SO they end up in the damp. OR as those "play me" pianos on the streets, which I think is a great idea.

I've seen a couple places here in the UK where they restore the wooden cabinet to house a digital piano. So you have the look of an old upright (some cabinets are absolutely gorgeous) and a digital piano instead. It seems a better option than just throwing them.