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I've been reading about the Kawai “Millennium III” action that has several pieces made with composite material. The purist in me says it's better to stick with proven technology, such as wood. I always worry that some new method will turn out to be just a fad, and when I'm buying a product that I hope will last for a few generations, I'm not interested in fads.

Yet the technical side of me can't think of any downside to very strong, lightweight pieces that are impervious to temperature and humidity. Is it possible to build pianos too good so they lose their individuality, their unique characteristics? Will they turn lifeless like digital pianos? Or is that a ridiculous notion? I'd be interested in thoughts on this.

Maybe someone on PW can direct you to a rebuilder near you who is using the W,N&G action parts. I use the hammer-shank/flange and it produces a wonderful evenness especially for softer playing if the tone regulator is good. The newest generation with the hard bushing seems to be extremely stable and durable.

A small novel was published here on PW on this subject:

Link

Hello Bob,
Apart from the hammer shanks, nearly all of the components of the "Millenium III" piano action are made of synthetic material.

It is part of a foward looking action technology that Kawai has been developing for more than 40 years. In the context of that significant period of research and development, I do not believe that it is a "fad".
In the technological evolution of the piano there have always been sceptics who have been outraged at certain innovations; for example, in the development of the full iron frame or harp which many believed had a deleterious effect on the sound of the piano. Prior to this, pianos had either a full wooden frame or a partial iron frame to strengthen the wooden parts. Of course it did change the sound, but for the better in power and richness. It also made the instrument more stable in tuning and stronger in withstanding the huge performance demands of music being written for the piano at that time.
Kawai, I believe have been trying to develop an action that is very robust yet highly sensitive and responsive as well as being resistant to to the fluctuations of humidity and temperature.

Bob, may I suggest that you try some Kawai pianos which have the full "Millenium III" action and experience it for yourself.

Kind regards,

Robert.

PS I am not a Kawai dealer or representative.

Hi Bob,

When it comes to the Kawai Millennium III action, I don't think this idea applies at all. It's definitely not lifeless to play on, but rather extremely responsive - and this can only be a good thing.

I bought a Shigeru SK3 recently, and I spent a long time comparing it side by side with a very well prepped Bösendorfer 200 (Renner action of course.) I honestly found it difficult to say which I preferred, as both felt different, but extremely pleasing to play on. However, I did notice that when I was trying to play a rapid passage pianissimo, the Kawai seemed to respond to me better. This could be personal preference of course - not a scientific test! And there is much more to picking which piano to buy than the action alone. But I guess my point is that it's better to just forget what the parts inside the piano are made of and let your fingers and ears make the decision as to what is pleasing to play on.

I understand your scepticism to 'plastic' parts used in pianos. And you may even have heard from dealers of competing brands that the Kawai action is inferior because it isn't made of wood. The following review by George Kolasis put my mind at ease on the subject.

http://www.georgekolasis.com/shigeru-kawai.html

In particular, this section:

'The last thing is the action. Like so many other technicians, I was always quite gun-shy about recommending composite materials in the action. The jury is in and it has been proven in the field for over 30 years, and by credible detailed scientific studies, that certain composites in non-speaking parts of the action are superior in terms of enhancing responsiveness (musicality) and longevity (durability).'

A-Bob,

Keep in mind that the action is nothing more that a mechanism which is designed to transmit energy from the fingers to propel a hammer whose strike on the strings causes the vibrations we hear as piano tone. It is the mechanism with propels the hammer and is not involved in the production of the tone, it merely transfers energy.

Composite actions are proven technology, and that is not an issue. But, your concern about loosing the character of what makes a piano a piano is a very valid point. But, as I indicated, that character doesn't come from the keyboard and action stack.

The actual tone producing parts are the strings, soundboard, bridges, hammers, etc., etc., etc. You know the various parts. The design of the hammers and their specifications are integral to the tonal characteristics any piano produces. It is the material used in the sound production areas of the piano which create the voice.

Again, there is much experimentation with different materials for the tonal production parts of the piano to aid in the continued evolution of the instrument. These endeavors are to create more refined and divergent tonal characteristics, rather than to limit them. The focus is not to make a piano sound like a digital, it is the digital manufacturers who are trying to emulate the variety of tonal color produced by an acoustic piano.

The Kawai actions are a proven commodity and shouldn't cause concern. The voice of a Kawai doesn't come from its action. Play some and enjoy. It would also be of value to play a recent Mason & Hamlin. Both pianos use a composite action, but the resulting tonal characteristics are totally different and both of them have nothing to remind you of a digital anything.

The biggest concern is that the buying public will be lulled into the sameness of the digitals, rather than enjoying the living sounds of an acoustic piano.

I'm curious why they don't make the hammers and shanks from the same material if it is so good?

When shopping for my piano, I really enjoyed the idea of a piano with the synthetic action, but unfortunately, I didn't enjoy the other aspects of the Kawaii pianos I tried.

Hi Daniel,

Attempts have been made to use something other than wood for a hammer core. Thus far, nothing has come to market. The wooden core, at least at this point, is the ongoing choice. In fact, the type of wood will affect the tone produced by a given hammer.

There is much discussion of wood vs. composite for hammer shanks. WN&G (Mason & Hamlin) uses composite shanks and Kawai products use wood. I notice a difference, but the ultimate choice is the preference of any given pianist. To the best of my knowledge, Steingraber offers the choice of wood or composite shanks for their Phoenix pianos.

Marty,

What you say may be true in general but I think it's an over-simplification.

The hammer is in contact with string for a small but significant number of milliseconds. During that time the shank and the action have to handle the substantial forces that the hammer generates when it hits the strings. The solidity of action and the key bed play a part. So too can the stability of the wrest plank. These things affect tone and dynamic range.

I hesitate to suggest that you pay attention to what Ed McMorrow has to say about these matters but I think you should (after casting a blind eye on all words in capital letters!).

Ian,

My explanation wasn't meant to venture into a complex discussion of the physics of tone production. It was simply to answer Dan's question concerning what was available to those who have an interest in the use of synthetics in pianos, specifically, action parts and hammers.

Marty,

You were actually responding to Bob's question, but the point is that tone depends on many aspects of a piano.

Composites may have an advantage when they lead to greater stability in those areas over several decades, i.e. tone does not change so much. Wood may be a better bet over a century or more for all we know.

Huh??? !!!

When did Daniel Corban change his name to "Bob?"

It might, but who cares?

At the level of performance we are talking about, i.e. action materials affecting tone, 100 year old actions are not a factor. For starters, knuckles won't last that long, and neither will the pinning.

30 years in a school setting is about the lifespan of one of these actions. The composites might allow a rebuilding with just hammers, knuckles, and back checks.

Wood is cool stuff, but it doesn't allow the pinning to remain even, and if the pinning is not even, none of the other cool things we do, like regulating and voicing, will ever be better than mediocre. If someone wants to defend wood as a superior material, I want to know why. It is easier to work with, but the vague "tone" alteration caused by composite parts is something I haven't found, yet.
Regards,

Finally, you have identified to which post you were referring. Bob's original question was about composite actions, not the entire keybed, cheek blocks assembly, key set, action stack, hammers, hammer shanks, back stack, etc.

Subsequently, I answered a question from a different member.

If A-Bob has further questions, he is free to ask. I don't particularly like answers which stray far afield from the question being asked and I certainly don't like receiving instructions on how I should choose to answer. If Mr. McMorrow chose to reply, fine. However, I don't need lessons about his expertise or need to quote him.

As I see it, the piano action transfers the energy from the key to the critical vibrating components of the piano, namely the strings and the sound board. It is these two components which I believe largely determine the quality of sound from the instrument The action initiates this process when the key strikes the string but does not have any other role in sound production.

The way in which the key strikes the string does affect the kind of sound that is produced and the differences between pianissimo and fortissimo which are related to the speed in which the hammer strikes the string are simple illustrations of this.

In relation to this topic, whether the action parts are made of wood or are synthetic has nothing to do with the sound production per se.

It is the efficiency, stability and durability of the two kinds of action which I believe should be the focus of this discussion.

Greetings to all,

Robert.

I'd say that's the answer to A-Bob's question.

As I stated in my reply, and as others have stated, the action, composite or not, is not a tone producing element. I separate the hammers from the action (stack) as they do affect the tonal structure of the instruments. The action alone would not lead to a digital type 'sameness.' Steingraeber Phoenix pianos are available with a composite soundboard and they exhibit excellent tonal characteristics. Though it may be possible to totally suck the life out of an acoustic piano, I don't think that is the intention of the builders.

There is a very, very expensive piano on the market which many find to be lacking in individuality and without unique characteristics. It is almost too perfect to the point of being clinical. It has a wood action.

In my experience the differences in touch between a good wooden action and either the WNG or Kawai composite is so subtle that it will be appreciated dominantly only by very fine players.

Also, as Ed points out, the increased stability of composites keeps pinning more uniform and overall touch more stable.

However, to me the biggest advantage of composites is in institution environments where humidity control is generally lacking, such as schools, churches, hotel, restaurants and clubs. This is particularly true in areas of the country that see significant seasonal changes.

I have been dealing with Kawai pianos for 15 years. I have never had a service call in those 15 years on the "action".

aside from the wooden Hammer rest rail, the damper rail, and key dip adjustments that are all due to the wooden parts, the Kawai piano has been rock solid.

In West Texas it is incredibly dry, but there are freak rain storms that reek havoc on anything that is changed by humidity. Nearly all the colleges out here have gone to the Kawai for this reason with hundreds of units passing all inspections with flying colors.

The other thing about Kawai is the COMPANY. on the 2 occasions that i have delt with warranty issues, one a soundboard crack, the other a finish issue, Kawai not only replaced the units with very little questioning, but they paid the fright, the shipping, and a generious tech fee for prep. The company has been amazing to work with in all aspects. I have worked with other companes who give the standard answer "not our problem, its due to your enviorment" and they leave it to the wind.

The Carbon Fiber action is the future of all pianos IMO. Kawai, Mason&Hamlin, and now Baldwin have all gone with CA. (Baldwin via special order).