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I am playing the piano and have been doing so since the age of 14 or 15. When I fell in love in classical music it was like a salvation for me but I suddenly felt very depressed by the fact that I hadn't been playing the piano earlier which led to me thinking it would be impossible to become any good at the piano. So it took me a while to get really serious at it. But when I realized that I really had to play the piano in order to feel well and that my passion was there in the music, I started practicing like crazy and I progressed really fast. The problem was though, that I progressed almost too fast. Suddenly I could play pieces like Chopin's Nocturne Op 48 No 1 and Beethoven's Op 13, which were two of my goal pieces that I thought I would never be able to play. I still believed though that I had to "make up for the lost time" so I practiced more than what was healthy for me and I didn't think anything about how this made me feel. Suddenly I had a mental breakdown. Even though I had reached a fairly high level I just couldn't practice anymore. I became depressed and didn't touch the piano for 6 months. I am now 20 years old and my love for the piano is coming back once again. I feel like I have missed many of the basics of piano playing because of my bad patience and the fact that I progressed so quickly and practiced so much. But now I really only have one desire in life: To be able to play pretty much anything and to feel that I am a competent and well-rounded musician who can play pieces like Chopin's 3rd sonata and Beethoven's last sonatas. My questions are:

1. Do you think it will be possible for a 20-year old who started at the age of 15, to one day be able to play pieces like the ones I mentioned? I don't have any desire to be famous or anything, I just want to reach the kind of level where I can feel that I can do justice to whatever music I am trying to play. Pretty much, my dream is to develop a concert pianist technique!



Thank you very much in advance! I would really appreciate if you took your time and answered me, as it would help me a lot!

That's just one question!

Well... your situation is not unique. I think that there's almost too many people hoping that "they had done something in the past, but didn't" or so...

The idea is that:

1. Yes it is possible to keep becoming better at piano. In fact you're fairly young, and as far as I'm concerned I keep getting better at piano and I'm 36 already!

2. keep in mind though, that sometimes competition (the goal to be better than the others, or more famous, etc) is a great driving force...

3. If you don't one already, you need to find a teacher that will help you focus, concentrate and take out the trash. That is if you do NOT have a teacher yet.

Difficult to devote the time to being a pianist unless you're a pianist... chances are you'll have to spend the lion's share of your time developing another career, and then there are friends, family, loved ones, etc to attend to... it would take some disciplined scheduling to get the hours in you'd need to catch up.

No, you'll never have the reflexes that the kids who have put in 6 hours a day since they were five will have... but chances are good you can get to the point that no one will care.

Piano Street link

I second what Nikolas has said. If you are serious about piano, then understand that you have skipped over many basics in your foundation that you need in order to achieve your goal - which is certainly possible.

So you need to get yourself a good teacher, and submit to doing what they tell you to do, Be prepared, you will be probably going back to what you feel are simple songs below your ability. Do it anyways and try to play them as beautifully as you can so you can progress through them quickly. This will not only help you enjoy the process, but it will make the most of this time and build a better foundation for playing harder works later on.

I think the hardest thing for students like you is to admit that you need to take a big step back to solidify skills that you can build upon and use in more difficult pieces. I always say that when you play a difficult piece, like a Beethoven Sonata, you are not just playing that sonata, but all the sonatas and sonatinas that came before it. And all the work on scales, chords, and arpeggios that you did before that, etc. You build your technique and ability up like a brick wall, one brick at a time, and you can't start at the top of the wall, you must start at the foundation.

Best of luck in your journey! You may want to frequent the Adult Beginners Forum here. There are many people there who are in a similar situation to yours.

I read about a pianist named James Rhodes. He was able to develop great technique later in life, though he had been playing as a kid and stopped for ten years from the age of 18 to the age of 28. Anybody knows how good he was before he quit?

Well actually I have the possibility to focus on the piano exclusively for two years as I recently got in to a pre-college(preperation for university). So I can practice many hours a day. Do you guys mean that the main reason it would be hard to develop great technique later in life is because of the lack of time one has to focus on the piano then?

Okay I need to be more clear. I do want to reach a professional level of playing, but I do not need to become a concert pianist like Sokolov or Zimmerman. I just want to be good enough to feel that I can handle the instrument at a professional level.
I mean that in my experience, people have the prejudice that persons who ask questions like the one I did want to become famous more than they want to become good musicians. I assure you that's not the case for me. I have been through that already and the biggest problem I have is to be just as open minded as I child is. I think the difference between someone my age and someone who is ten years younger is that if someone who is ten years old doesen't know or understand something, than they are eager to learn it and they don't feel a shame and like "this I should already know", while someone my age is often the exact opposite: I always feel a bit a shame when I don't understand something because I compare myself with people younger than me who is already able to do things on the piano which I am not. Therefore, I have been "afraid" of learning because of the confrontation of doing things I feel like I should already be able to do, instead of just learning with joy like a child. I think that many teachers have this "judging" since of being when a person my age comes as a beginner to them and say "I want to be able to play at a concert pianist level" or "I want to be able to play Chopin's all etudes one day". I feels like they automatically think: "Well you are ten years too late unfortunately..."

Now I have to make clear that I am not a beginner though. I am actually fairly "advanced". I can play some medium difficult Beethoven sonatas like Op 13 and Op 26 and some of the easier Chopin Etudes, like Op 10 No 3 and Op 10 No 5.

I feel like I have missed a lot of the basics and fundamentals of piano playing because I am largely self taught(though I have had a teacher once) I have been stressed about the fact that I feel "too old" and I have had other personal issues in my life which are now starting to be better. My question is simply: If a person who is at my age wants to reach a professional level of playing the piano(though one does NOT have to be famous), is it practically possible considering my background? Would it be possible for a 20-year old beginner to reach such a high level?

I am in the same boat you are and all you can do is work hard and see how far you go. Do you have a teacher?

It somehow feels that you're not taking this a seriously as you should. Sorry for this, cause it feels insulting, but I honestly don't mean any harm. You remind me of several guitarist (electric guitar) friends that I know, who suddenly fell in love with the instrument and starter practising scales, modes, solos, finding all available youtube tutorials and videos and teaching material on line.

Skipping:
* most lessons
* most common sense knowledge of music (theory, harmony, history, etc)
* practical exercise of their knowledge of the instrument (in their case playing in a band).

You are largely self taught. This needs to change somehow. The knowledge of classical music is... enormous, immense and can suck anyone in, without any restrain or other.

You mention playing (at what level) some chopin etudes. This may very well be the case, but we don't know how well you're actually performing them.

The idea of becoming a professional pianist, is one that needs some pondering too (and this IS crucial):

* Piano teachers are professionals, and perhaps they have not reached the level of proficiency that you're after.
* Same goes for accompanists.

What kind of works would you like to play, to feel you're worthy of the title "professional"? Isn't a Chopin etude enough? For me it was almost enough (though I can play "harder works than these etudes).
What kind of earnings would you wish to have? Most concert pianist combine teaching with touring, with recording, with whatever to make a living. I don't think there's more than 100 (???) concert pianists globally that make a living solely from touring and concerting.

I am taking this serioulsy but the approach has been wrong because of personal issues and lack of maturity and so on.

What level I want to be able to play on? I want to be able to improvise well, know the basics of how to compose, how to transcribe music etc. I want to be able to sight read well, play in a trio or something and so on. When it comes to playing pieces I want to be able to play pieces like Beethoven's last sonatas and Chopin's sonatas.

Your goals sound fine and doable, even at this point in life. But why do you ask? Why take the word of strangers on a largely anonymous forum on what you can and can't achieve? I have been told by many people I can't do something, and luckily I didn't listen to them.

If you want to play well, however, there are ways of going about it that are better than others. Having a good teacher to guide you is paramount. Even the most gifted pianists of the world need teachers.

In that case:

You seem (once more, can't really tell) to be focusing on the technical aspects of music (playing the piano) rather than the general knowledge. :-/ You need to fix that!

I am trying to fix that. I know I have been focusing on that too much. Mainly because I have always thought that you cannot learn the piano unless you started when you were 5. Now I have realized how wrong that is, and luckily I loved music enough to be able to learn how to play quite well despite my doubts.

You need to think hard about your goals, attitude and approach. For now you are quite focused on the end goal of becoming a great pianist. This is very motivating to a degree, but you need to enjoy the whole process of learning and broaden your music appreciation.

All of your goals are absolutely possible but you have to be careful not to be obsessive about getting to your destination. Because this will leave you unsatisfied most of the time and will lead to burnout and/or injury.

Absolutely find a great teacher and mentor that can support you in this journey. Without this your chances for success are very remote. I asked the same questions as an adult learner many years ago. When I found a teacher that was a good match for me I started to make real progress and was introduced to many things that I would not have found on my own.

Yes you can achieve that level of technique (actually making a career of it is harder). If you do it right, it will only take a couple years. But you won't do it right.

Get a teacher and get ready to do the basics. There are no shortcuts; you can't just play the pieces you love without playing a whole bunch of stuff you probably don't love. The real learning process, which takes years, is rarely exciting or attractive when you're in it. It only becomes beautiful when you look back and think, "I took the past 5 (10, or 15, or 50) years day by day, honestly and slowly, and now I know so much more than I did when I started". I know how you feel - I'm in the same situation as you, almost exactly - but I'm just going to find a good teacher to work with and start as far back as I have to. If you're serious about learning, you have to be willing to accept that regardless of ability, we all start at the bottom.

Probably worth mentioning:

If you look back at your piano playing skill a month before and you can't see any improvement, try something different

Since it's apparently not your goal to become a professional pianist, then why worry about reaching the level where you can perform late Beethoven Sonatas or the Chopin Sonatas, among the hardest pieces in the literature?

Based on your rep, assuming you can play it reasonably well, you may already at level where the piano literature offers more masterpieces than most people can learn in a lifetime.

For example, just using a single composer, Chopin, as an example, you may already be at the point where you can tackle:
1. All the Mazurkas
2. Almost all the Waltzes
3. Half the Preludes
4. 1/3 of the Etudes
5. Two of the Impromptus
6. All the Eccosaises
7. 1/2 the Nocturnes
8. Several of the Polonaises

Although it's true that many of the greatest piano works require conservatory level technique, it's also true that most of the great composers wrote many works that require far less technical skill. And i think those pieces can be just as rewarding to play as pieces like late Beethoven.

Why not get a good teacher and start learning some of the thousands of masterpieces already in your skill range?

Theodor Leschetizky was probably the greatest piano teacher of all time. He said:



He probably knew.

+1 to this.

Piano playing is ninety percent mental, and the other half is physical, to paraphrase Yogi Berra. You somehow have to generate the will to accept instruction. You don't *and won't be expected* to know everything about playing the piano.

You need to learn the fundamentals, and having a good teacher is the most straightforward way to do that.

You need to learn how to practice in a focused and efficient manner. Practicing eight hours a day is not the way to go--burnout is what it gets you.


No, you aren't a child of five anymore, but you do have the advantage of discipline and maturity. Are you serious about playing well? If the people here on Piano World said, no, you won't have virtuoso concert level technique, but you will have excellent technique, what would your response be? Would you quit? Would you say, no, you must be wrong? Would you say okay, I love playing piano, and if excellent is the most I can hope for, good enough, I love it that much?