Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Ravel's Prelude fingering in these 3 bars?

Hi, at the moment I'm on vacation from my piano lessons until the 1st of September. Therefore I have some freedom to try out my own pieces, so I've decided to learn the prelude by Ravel (composed for the sight-reading competition). Here's a link to the score on IMSLP.
I need help to find the best fingering for the LH legato phrase in bars 13-15 to be able to play everything joined without pedal.
What are your suggestions ?

I don't mean to avoid answering your question, but why don't you just use pedal and connect a couple of things with your foot?

Is there some reason? I mean, pedal would be very idiomatic for this piece.

Well... My teacher says that even with pedal she can hear that the notes aren't being held if you let them go. She says you must connect them with your hands and that pedal isn't "cure-all"

I think you cannot hear the difference in more complex pieces where the use of the sustain pedal is a "must" and not a matter of taste.

But in a simple series of notes and chords you might hear it. Especially of you are the performer. Your perception of the sound is influenced by your thinking, your desire to get a certain sound, your imagination and the way you then hit the key or lean into or away from the piano etc. It is called psycho-physical feed-back.

A good fingering helps you to hit the rigth keys with ease, and improve the legato on spots where you have to shift the pedal.

I printed out this small prelude and will have a look at it. May be I will revert with fingering suggestion.

This is one of the reasons I think all piano teachers should have to take courses in physics. Purely speaking in terms of the mechanical operations of the piano, she's lying to herself (and you). Can you hear that the pedal is pushed down? Yes. Can you hear how someone exits a note (legato/staccato)? No, absolutely not. Why? Because the pedal performs the "legato" function for you no matter what you do with your fingers.

Now, if she's talking about your attack into the note, that's different. But I didn't get that vibe from what you posted. I'd ask her about that for clarification.

Might I ask -- what fingering are you using now?

Try playing the thirds occasionally alternating left and right hands, and use careful pedaling to get the right amount of legato (blur). Since the right hand octaves are mostly played 1 and 5, you can use 2 and 4, or 2 and 3 for some of the thirds.

One of Ravel's gems!

I played the prelude, and I must say it did not appeal to me musically!

Technically it is challenging because you have to interfoil your hands and fingers.

You RH have to play octaves while you play the thirds with you LH. For me it is more convenient to move the RH under the LH. The legato is not 100 %, but you nevertheless use the sustain because of the octaves. And you have to give space for your RH by mooving your LH deeper into te keys and playing with your RH's fingers at the edges of the keys. And on some notes you cannot keep the LH's fingers the full time, because you must repeat the same key with your RH.

My fingering suggestion for the left hand in the bars 8 - 15:

5-2-1-4-3 / 1-4-3-2-1 / 42-31 / 42-53-42 / 31-42/ 51-42 / 31-42-31-4(21)/32-42-53

By the way, here is a fingering suggestion for the RH in bars 17-19:

12-15-24 / 1235-4-5-3-/ 12-15-24

You need flexibel wrist and fingers, for sure.

"Le tout, c'est de savoir bien doigter" (Chopin)

Redistribution of chords (from LH to RH and vice versa) is somteimes a clever solution. It might however affect the control of the dynamics adversely. And for sure, in this case, it will not help the legato playing but increase the blurring effect.

Want to hear how this mysterious prelude really should sound. I hope I will find it on YouTube

Thank you, Jan-Erik, for you input! I will definitely try the fingering suggestions this evening when I'm going to get to my piano practice

God luck! And remember fingering is very individual. You have some times to try a fingering that is very unorthodox and looks impossible at first sight. But at the end it must feel convenient and let you reläx.

On full notes you can also try shifting fingers while holdinghte key down as I suggested on the point - market with brackets (21)

I first played with LH only and could play fully legato, but that fingering did not work together with the RH octaves.

In those bars the "melody" lies in the RH so you should focus on the clarity, dynamics and phrasing of the octaves.

This prelude does not sound so mad after all, although it was composed for a sight reading competition, when it is played with feeling and deliciousness, not too hard and not too much lento.

I like the intrepretation of e.g. Stefan Chaplikov. But
how it sounds is much depending on the piano and the recording too.

After playing the prelude several times and even performing it in front of an audience, I have made some modifications to my fingering suggestion.

Very important is training in slow tempo and keeping the crossing left hand high and deep, thus giving freedom and space for your RH, which plays the melody in the bars 10 to 15. All notes should sound crystal clear, even when you use the pedal.

There is time for finger substitution and that I have taken advantage of.

So starting from bar 14 the new LH fingering is:

/13 42 13 24 with substitution to 31/42 51 52/

After susbstuting fingers on the last CE chord in bar 14, for which there is plenty of time, the following two chords in bar 15 will cause no trouble. For the last chord AC# you just slipe your 5th from the black Bb to the white A key. Goes well with the decrescendo! And the upper notes are played legato.

Here is my suggestion for the RH for the bars 10 to 15. Finger substitiution in bracket:

/5 15 14 15/ 15 15 14 15/15 14 14 15/15 1(45) 15/14 15 1(45) 14/15 13 15 15/

It is of course not possible to play those octaves fully legato, but it brings out a better interpretation when you can play the upper notes legato as much as possible. You do not have to rely on the sustain pedal all the time, but you can use it just for sound effect

Also here finger substitution is of advantage, e.g. on G in bars 13, if you cannot conveniently take the following octave with 13.

I have learnt to appreciate this piece now when I can focus on phrasing and dynamics and the optimal use of the sustain and not on hitting the correct notes.

Those interested in a sheet with nearly all fingers, please send me you e-mail, and I can send a scanned copy.

After playing this prelude several times and also performing it for an audience I have made slight modifications in my previous fingering suggestion.

Important is keeping the crossing LH high and deep into the keys, giving space and freedom to the RH, which plays the melody in bar 10 to 15. There is time for finger substitution and that I now use on three spots (in brackets):

/42 13/42 53 42/13 42/(5-3)1 42/31 42 31 (42-13)/42 51 52/

After the finger substitution on the last EG-chord in bar 14, it is very convenient to play the two following chords in bar 15. Then, for the last chord AC# you just slip your 5th from the black Bb to A. That goes well with the decrescendo, and the upper notes are played legato anyhow.

The octaves in RH can of course not be played fully legato, but
following fingering helps in the performance so you can focus on phrasing, dynamics and using the sustain for sound effect and not depending on it solely for the legato. The melody must be heard crystal clear, especially the upper notes.

/5 15 14 15/15 15 14 15/15 14 14 15/15 1(45) 14 15/14 15 1(45) 14/15 13 15 15/

In bar 14 you take the first octave by kind of roling your hand so that yoru 4th is crossing your 5th. This is IHO the best solution considering the following chords. In bar 13, if you can take the E ocatave with 13 without problem, then you do not need switching the 4th to the 5th on the preceeding G octave.

If anyone is interested in my complete fingering suggestion, I can send the scanned sheet, after getting the e-mail address. But at the end of the day, it is much a matter of personal anatomy and preferences...