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#2280109 05/23/14 01:54 PM
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JoelW Offline OP
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I have the Henle edition. In the first half of the middle, the right hand is a straight rhythm, and then it turns into a dotted rhythm. Every recording I listen to is sort of a wash. Nobody obeys the rhythm very well. It's either always dotted, or always straight, or a sloppy mix of both.

???

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A couple of things:

BTW in the first part, it's more than just "straight"; it's quintuplets. I emphasize this because the difference between the two parts is more than just what you said. And yet arguably this also means that the difference is less than what you said! On one hand, it's more than just a quantitative difference; it's a difference of type. BUT, in terms of the pure math, the difference is less than if it were just what you said.

So, what does this mean? Chopin did something quite complex here, and I think there's lots of room for arguable interpretation as to what exactly he was trying to convey.

My rough memory tells me that people usually do make a distinction between the two parts, but in many different ways, including that sometimes people see the shift as a gradual one, rather than occurring all at once where it's marked. I went and skimmed through three recordings on youtube: Rubinstein, Zimerman, and Bolet. They all do make some distinction, in varying degrees and various ways. Bolet makes the greatest distinction, and does it slightly as a gradual thing, starting to 'merge' into the dotted rhythm a little before where it's marked.

My inclination, I think (I've never worked on the piece but have played through it many times), would be to make the change abruptly where marked, and to make the difference more extreme than any of these people do. You probably think that at least Rubinstein and Zimerman don't make as much of a distinction as you would like. I'd like more of a distinction too.

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JoelW Offline OP
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I agree with you about being more abrupt. I think Chopin wrote the dotted rhythm for a reason, especially the climax. That part NEEDS to be dotted, or else it's just not as punctual. (which it needs to be laugh)

Have you ever noticed that the dotted rhythm extends through the rest of the piece? Part of the main theme, that was once straightforward, becomes dotted in the recap. I thought that was an interesting connection.

By the way, does anyone have any tips regarding the placement of the two quintuplets against the left hand? I'm having trouble here. Never played this kind of cross rhythm before. My right hand is playing a straight pattern, but my hands seem to be lining up, which shouldn't be happening.

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Originally Posted by JoelW
does anyone have any tips regarding the placement of the two quintuplets against the left hand? I'm having trouble here. Never played this kind of cross rhythm before. My right hand is playing a straight pattern, but my hands seem to be lining up, which shouldn't be happening.

Think of it as 5 against 2. The LH eighth note pulse should fall between the third and fourth quintuplet.

If I'm reading this right, when you get to the dotted rhythm the hands SHOULD line up -- the first note of the triplet with the LH eighth.
Actually, that makes me notice a good artistic reason for the shift from quintuplets to dotted: when the hands start lining up there will be more accent on the eighth notes, creating more of a rhythmic drive at the eighth note pulse.

Last edited by hreichgott; 05/23/14 08:12 PM.

Heather Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée
William Grant Still - Three Visions

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