Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum I need a big help in deciding my future in playing piano

Well, the story is this:
I'm 18 years old,
About 6 months ago (I think, I really don't remember) I started taking piano lessons. They were of the traditional kind. Around that time I started posting threads in this forum about sight-reading and stuff, some of you might remember. Well, soon after I started playing, I discovered I really dislike this whole process, To be able to play a piece, I gotta to practice it for so long... Heck, I don't practice the piano, I practice that piece specifically! It's like the only thing I improve in is playing that specific piece (I know it's not actully like that, it's "like"), a proof could be the fact that after enough practice I can play that hard piece perfectly and then when given a simple phrase I can't play it, I have to LEARN it. But then what did I learn up to now then? Oh right, I didn't learn playing the piano, I learned how to play that specific piece. Anyway leave that whole thing aside, even though that's my main reason for wanting to practice ONLY sight-reading. So that all the time I put into practice will go towards benfetting me when playing (or attemping to play) all pieces and not a specific piece.
6 months have passed since then (approximately) and I didn't practice piano all this time, I was on and off until I completely stopped my lessons and stopped practicing due to school exams and the fact that they made me too lazy to put in time to practice after I learned for an exam.
Now it's summer break (and my last one too), and I have time again. Now now, I don't want to rush and simply start going again to my 'traditional' lessons. I gave it some thought, why don't I try something that's more appealing to me? How about learning Jazz? I don't like much fast improvizing on piano that sounds like it has no feeling or melody, I like Smooth Jazz and melodic music, new age too (I think you catch my drift). But the main thing is, this is a total change in playing the piano. No more will I need to struggle on a certain piece to play it right? I want to learn piano and to be 'free' with it, kinda like what sight-reading can make you. However, sight-reading is HARD, and takes a long time to get to a decent level with. So, is Jazz the answer I was looking for all along? I'd really appreciate it if some of you guys that learn Jazz can tell me, or perhaps anyone else who have a better idea of what kind of piano lessons I should have can advise me on the subject.
I got the impression that Jazz can make me the player that I wanted to be. I could take fake books (I can sight-read melody lines easily thanks to practicing sight-reading), and improvise the other hand? (if that's how improvising is), it seems like I can play songs that sound rich and full without having to sight-read comlpicated stuff, and besides each time I play through I can make it sound different right? Sounds really fun considering it comes from my head. However I'd like to ask you improvisers, is improvizing just about randomly playing what you know will sound ok according to the theory? Or are you actully imagining the sound in your head and putting it down into play? I ask this because my playing by ear is bad and sometimes I think improvizing for me will be just a random bashing on keys that I'm allowed to play on as long as it sounds right (according to music theory).
Oh and if we're already on the subject, how do jazz lessons go? I guess I gotta drill some stuff right? Like chords, inversions, extensions, etc.?
And what about the music theory? Is it alot of stuff I gotta remember on paper? Or is it theory of actual playing that I gotta remember? What I'm asking is, do I need to remember alot of stuff? and if so is it stuff that I gotta keep saying in my head to remember? or is it stuff that I drill on the keyboard and I remember it as that? (I hope I got my point).

Another concern I have is this, in about 3 months I will be joining the army (There's no escaping it, here in Israel) I'll probably have less time to practice, maybe only once a week!.
So my question is, in the 3 months (even less) I have, will I be able to progress far in Jazz? Enough to be able to go on alone without the teacher? Or is it that after 3 months I'll still be a beginner that needs alot to learn from the teacher? And in general, is it worth it to start learning jazz given the time I have left? Perhaps Jazz is something that needs alot of hours put into it, and it's very hard? Or maybe it's not that hard and as long as you practice the minimum needed you can still get fine results even in only 3 months? How long does it take to start being independent in improvising?

Yes, there are ALOT of questions in there (I'm quite the curious one), I'd appreciate answers to any of 'em, Thanks in advance!!

Whatever keeps you at the keyboard is worth it. Every style has it's learning curve, but it gets easier with time and effort. With the world situation as it is today, anything you can find that will help you enjoy whatever time you get to relax and "get lost" is worth it's weight in gold. Your fustration is known to absolutely every human who ever thought about playing, and you just need to play when you can and one day the light bulb goes off (BTW, I'm still waiting...) So, get a portable keyboard you can drag with you and jump in again.......and best hopes for you and your friends.....

I absolutely agree with you Tal. Your first paragraph describes my feelings exactly. Learning a good song which sounds rich and interesting takes a lot of time for me. By the time i learnt it i don't want to play it anymore and if i try to play something else, time spent on another piece doesn't help %90. I completely HATE this.

And i also don't like jazz or blues because of the exact reason you said (fast improvizing on piano that sounds like it has no feeling or melody) but if someone tries to learn improvisation to play freestyle all books, videos you can find is on jazz and blues. I also HATE this too.

I can't understand how some people can play incredibly beautiful improvisations without sounding like jazz or blues. How and where they learnt it?

But considering the fact that i'll never give up trying (and you shouldn't too because if we can get what we want sooner or later it'll be extremely satisfiying), from now on i'll try couple of hours every day playing random notes (based on some basic music theory of course not completely random) to see which notes sounds good together for me and try to create small pieces. May be that will help me in my search. This is the technique some people (some of those people i mentioned above) recommended. May be you can try the same thing.

By the way, i've gone to army too and i was more eager to play when i come. But considering your 3 months remaning physiology (i know i had similar feeling before going) no training will be very helpful to you so i recommend just playing for fun till you go and you can start trying new learning techniques when you come from army without the stress of limited time

Also below is a example of what i want to be able to play

http://ehasting.u40.infinology.com/...%20all%20my%20heart%20strings%20gone.mp3

At first it can be some mindless key bashing but I play through a song really slow playing what I hear in my mind. If that is to hard I change what I hear to something easier. Here are a few songs I just did recently.

This was strictly play by ear. I heard in my head fancy bass walks in the left hand but am not that advanced yet so I only used two bass walks which hit three steps which you will hear.

http://www.box.net/public/e501yf2jll

This is a fake book style I did. I had trouble getting this where I wanted it so it is a little rough.

http://www.box.net/public/ro4c6fazhn

This is at about a years worth of play by ear lessons from a teacher and many dvd courses and books at about 2 hours a day.

Get you a portable keyboard and some study materials and take it with you if they allow. You can do a lot with just 20 min. a day.

My advice is to go after your passion. Itried the classical approach as well and had no fun. Playing by ear is addictive and I love it. It just depends on how you are wired.

Maxximum, I agree with every word you said, as for "doing what's fun" for me at the moment, I guess it'll be more sight-reading?
I also think that if one learns jazz, he can choose what to do with it (what to improvise), be it fast solos or emotional music.
That Reflekshun track is beautiful, It's exactly the kind of music I'm trying to play too. How do I call it? New age? Melodic music? I hear alot of music, all my tracks consists of words less melodic music. When people ask me what kind of music do you like to hear, I answer exactly that, and I sound like a weirdo.

psychopianoman - The links you gave me sound great! However, while I know what playing by ear means, I don't know how does it compare to the normal method? And if you're using a fake book, it's not playing by ear is it?
As for the portable keyboard, what exactly do you mean by that? What kind? Can you show me an example?

Tal, I totally understand what you're saying. Being a beginner in piano kind of bites. You have no skill at all starting out, so everything takes forever and is a struggle. You have to kill yourself to get a piece in your fingers, and it feels like all you have managed to do is get one piece in your fingers.

All I can say is that it takes time to master the instrument. Lots of it. But each piece you learn gives you something new you can do. Eventually, you have the skill set to play many things. For me, after 7 years of lessons, it no longer takes me forever to learn a new piece that is within my ability level. (Of course, I am always stretching to play things above my ability level, but that's a whole 'nuther issue).

That said, it sounds like you'd be happier trying something based on improvisation or play by ear. From what I've read in this forum, these methods also take dedication to learn. But it sounds like you'd enjoy the process more that way.

Good luck!

Ditto to all of the above. I also somtimes wonder if I can really PLAY the piano. Sure I can play pieces that I've studied and practiced over, and over,and over again, but often I feel as though I don't REALLY play the piano...

It's also my reason for wanting to become an avid sightreader....of course I still don't spend enough time on this... :rolleyes:

I think that it's important to be patient and mostly - enjoy the journey as well as the destination. You have to love the struggles (and there are lots!!) almost as much as the triumphs...IMO.

I aprrecite all of the comments.
I am enjoying the journey, as I said, I enjoy practicing sight-reading, even though it kills my neck and back because I'm so tensed when sight-reading.

Cindysphinx, yes, after 7 years I believe it takes you less and less to master pieces, but if say, you practiced only sight-reading for 7 years? You wouldn't be able to play your current repertiore that's for sure and your technique would probably be lower, but I guess your reading would've been so good that playing intermediate pieces would be immediate (through sight-reading).
Yes I bet i'd be happier trying something with improvisation, however, not neccessarily with playing by ear, after all I have no problem with notes, I like reading notes and practicing it, I just hate memorizing stuff. I don't have any memory issue, I memorized tons of material for school because I had to. However, memorizing is definitly NOT fun, and when I Should memorize a phrase I can't read in time with sight-reading I feel I'm cheating myself.

Tal, i can't classify that kind of playing too so i just say freestyle when they ask.

That guy isn't a pianist, creates ambient music using lots of synths and acoustic instruments (most probably samples of them) and there are lots of guys like him and strangely enough they're not commercial musicians. (i mean not releasing albums) He has enough songs for at least 5 albums already.

Check out here
http://ehasting.u40.infinology.com/mp3/reflekshun/

Most of the songs isn't piano solo but most of them is a pleasure to listen to me. For example download Accept song from the link i gave above. I loved it's rhtymic style. (Especially section 4:30 - 5:30)

By the way i'll try pianomagic, i'll tell you my impressions about it when you came from army (how many months will it take?) and because of the fact that our expectations are quite similar or simply just the same, my opinions will be very useful for you i guess.

Tal, I think you're gettting a clear answer here: Play the kind of music that gives you pleasure. Based on what you've said, and the fact that you liked the reflekshun piece, I would encourage you to try some new age (er, neo-classical) pieces. You've heard us raving about David Nevue's music. Go to his web site (www.davidnevue.com) and listen to his sample pieces, and then download the sheet music to the ones you like.

I would encourage you to try PianoMagic, too, except that it's internet based so you might have a hard time getting the most out of it while you're on active duty.

Speaking of which, it looks like you will not exactly be starting your duty in auspicious times. We will be thinking of and hoping for your safety in the months ahead.

My teacher is a classic example of someone who plays by ear. You can ask her to play a song and if she does not know it she will ask how does it go. What she wants is for it to be sung or if you can not sing then hum it out. From this she then plays the music.

Playing by ear is the skill of playing with out any music and doing it at the drop of a hat.

Faking it is about the same except you have the melodic structure and the chord progressions so it is easier than just doing it off the top of your head.

It is similiar to playing by ear due to the fact that there is not a bass line to read and you add your own style and feel to the song. The fake sheet is only there as a guide.

I know people that can play out of fake books but can not play by ear. I have known 3 people that can play by ear but they can also use a fake book due to the fact that they did not always play by ear and know theory and chords.

I have also seen natural play by ear individuals that can play most anything but do not have a clue how or why it works.

Thanks for all the encouragement
Well I didn't elaborate enough on the army subject I guess, chances are I'll be doing a special course which we call over here ATUDA. It means I'll be going to university NOW, and after I finish my studies after 3 or 4 years, only then I join the army officially and there I use my degree for a professional job.
Anyway, chances are I'll study far away from my home and in a dorm (is it safe to carry a digital piano over there? maybe there are thieves?) even if I did have my piano over there, I for sure won't have a teacher there and that's why I asked if in 3 months I can be independent when it comes to improvising so I could continue practicing by myself without someone guiding me.
I can still consider that portable keyboard option that was mentioned in this thread (even though I have no idea what it means precisely) and even then, it depends on wether I can study improvising by myself or not.
What do you say?

Thanks for the artists that were suggested, however I'm already too familliar with Nevue's and Lanz's work I got it all on my iPod ^^. I wonder how you didn't mention Keiko Matsui which plays some of the most catchy melodies ever, even with the jazz influence that can be felt throughout her music. As for downloading sheet music, but then, I bet it's way above my sight-reading level, so I'll have to STUDY it? and MEMORIZE it? That beats the whole purpose of asking about improvising. I want to avoid learning pieces if possible, I'd like to learn to play the piano in general :p .

I took classical piano lessons many years ago and quit because it was drudgery to me. I worked and worked on a piece and finally mastered it (sort of)and still didn't really like it.

When I started again a few years ago I started using fake books because playing by ear was harder that I wanted to deal with.

I started out just playing the melody and block chords then listened to all kinds of piano players, even bought some sheet music and stole a lot of their ideas to keep adding to my style.

I don't deal with theory, scales, or any of that other 'hard' stuff. I learned chords by learning a few basic construction rules so I didn't have to memorize them all.

Another thing that helped a lot was recording myself. I'd record something, listen to it with horror at how crappy it sounded so I'd try it some other way.

Anyway, the point is I don't agonize over other peoples arrangements and just play what I can and try to keep making it sound better.

No pressure, just fun.

Yes, i love Keiko Matsui too especially "Flashback". S.E.N.S is great also, my favourite is "Love". Actually most of the songs i love comes from either directly from japanese artists or japan animes. They are very melodic check out Scarlet from Ayashi No Ceres anime for example which is my recent favourite.

Anyway i didn't recommend you to bring your piano with you i'm nearly sure that something will happen to it. (It could be forbidden too it is not unexpected) But if you have a nice friend or a relative near to a place you'll go you can take your piano there and play it when you use your weekly allowances to go outside (If there is any)

It's not weekly allowances or any of that stuff, it's basically university. After I finish learning I can go wherever I want. I'm still "free", just away from home and it wouldn't be practical to go on a train everyday and back just to get to my piano for 30 minutes (while the train ride could take at least 2 hours to get to one side).
Anyway I've contacted a teacher I'll see what he has to say.
As for the portable keyboard option? What is it exactly? If it's a cappy midi keyboard with unweighted keys, I got it, here, full of dust, hadn't used it since I bought the digital piano. I really hated using it...

Exactly up to what weight you consider it portable? Lightest digital piano you can get with a decent action is Roland RD-300SX (15.5KG). As you can guess it hasn't got fully weighted keys but it is hammer action and very expressive in my opinion. M-Audio ProKeys SX is a lot more lighter (7.5kg) but it is not hammer action also i guess it shares the same keybed with keystation 88es model which according to most people very bad. (M-Audio really have a problem with coil springs they can't make the response (to specific amount force) of all the keys same)

To tell you the truth when portable keyboard was first mentioned here by gmm1 I had no idea what he's talking about that's why I asked, I don't consider the 88 keys digita piano (even if it is a light one) to be portable. I thought he's talking about something small.
If that's what he meant...
Well what I currently own is a Px-110 it is pretty light, but still heavy and I don't consider it portable to be honest.

I don't if this will happen, but here is what you could call a truly portable piano.

http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/2006/Foldup-Keyboard.html

would be interesting to see one come out.

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and then there is the roll-ups which most people who have tried them really hate,
http://hecsaninc.com/iroll.html
and have only 49 keys

and a competitor that seems a better deal
http://www.buyrolluppiano.com/roll-up-piano-chart.html
and has 61 keys

but I expect the keyboard is not much different in lack of feel.

can't get much more portable than that though.

I want to play piano bad and would not mind taking a 50lb keyboard with me to school. You have a room to stay in then you have a place to set it up and play it.

I guess I am thinking of college here where you have a dorm and a little bit of space to put your own stuff.

No need to travel, just take it along with you.

Yes I will have a dorm, and I think it is possible, after all I can put headphones and bother nobody. But that wasn't my conern. It was the fact that I wouldn't be able to take lessons while there. So will I be able to improve on my own without a teacher? Is 2.5 months with a teacher enough to make me independent and improve on my own?? (Of course I could still have a lesson once in 2-3 weeks).
As for that roll-up keyboard... It looks like it can be cut with scissors :X