Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Where to begin?

Hey,

I've always been a top-down learner (reading before knowing letters for example) and as is the case with playing piano.
I am currently able to play some pretty complex pieces (I play Für Elise flawlessly and am currently learning to play Rondo Alla Turca and Pirates of the Caribbean.) but all of them take a lot of constant practice to learn. Now I'm looking to improve my rudimentary piano skills, starting from the beginning in order to play complexer pieces and improvisations with less of an effort. The problem is that I don't know where to begin.

I don't have any money for online books or a teacher. I am using the Yamaha P-105 Digital Piano to practice and because of it's midi functionality I am currently trying to teach myself to learn notes through the learning pack of Synthesia. The problem however is that there isn't really a huge amount of structure in those lessons and I would like there to be enough.

So my question to all of you is; where should I start? Do you know some software that will help me progress efficiently and hopefully quickly? Or are there some other resources out there which I could make use of?

Thanks for reading and I'm looking forward to your replies!

Piano lessons, even from time to time, might pay off. It can be thought of as an investment in yourself. You could do one and then another when you are ready and if the first one was helpful.

Life has these sorts of repeat expenses . . . rent, health insurance, car insurance, et c. . . . I know things are more expensive than ever before and life isn't necessarily as easy as it used to be. If music is a priority with you then to carve out some financial space for lessons should be worthwhile.

There is a lot of free information online about music theory, and Dover Publications still has a lot of low price books on piano playing.

I don't think any of these is a substitute for lessons with a skilled teacher. Maybe the things in these books and materials are for discussing with such a teacher.

As a beginner, I found that saving a little money to buy good method books is reachable. I've ordered Alfred's Basic Adult Course Part 1 for about 7 euros on amazon, and I couldn't be more pleased with it.

I realized just yesterday that I was reading a lot better since I started the book because of how it can take a simple position (starts with C) on both hands and help you develop and read it with multiple little pieces. The next position is the G position, same drill, and so on. It may be really progressiv but I actually feel like I'm remembering these things a lot better.

I think I'll start looking for a teacher as soon as I'm back from vacation as well, I've been recommended one by a piano tuner / reseller in my city.

Point is, I've been looking at softwares and I didn't like them for two reasons:

1/ I never found one that had a real Solfege approach.
2/ The fact that it lets me hear the piece as well as reading it subconsciously made me work my ears more than my ability to read a piano sheet.

Having just the piano sheet to rely on actually forces me to read carefully beforehand, tap the rythm in my head or by clapping my hand, etc... all of which are techniques to learn a music piece that are again taught in the Alfred's Basic Adult Piano Course.

To finish, I'd like to insist on what Michael said, Piano lessons with a good teacher are invaluable. While I haven't been taking any myself, I've been told countless time by every pianist I talked to.

Hope this helps !

You could look at method books such as the Alfred All In One Series or Fundamental Keys by Rachael Jimenez, both are well regarded in this forum. These are not expensive books and if a book can last you a year (four years in the case of Fundamental Keys) then that is a good investment.

The problem with software is the student interacts in a different way with software as opposed to sheet music. For that reason I think programs like Synthesia do more harm than good. However the structure you are looking for could be found at PianoMarvel.com which although I do not use I think is particularly good.

When you say "less effort", are you saying pop music played by ear or something else (improvising Fur Elise, etc.)?

I am reffering to not taking weeks to learn to play a song decently ^^

It is normal to take weeks to learn to play a song decently. Sometimes months, depending on the piece and your skill level. Lots of good advice above re following a piano method. Starting from scratch with a method will develop your reading ability and that will make learning new pieces easier.

I hate to be blunt, but if you're looking for a quick-fix or short-cuts, let me tell you, there are none. There is no substitute for facing the music. It takes as long as it takes.
Qualitative, Intelligent effort is key, rather than quantitative, more or less effort.

+1. When you see someone play something and it seems easy, what you don't see is the years of playing they did prior to that: all the scales, chords, arpeggios, technical exercises, and the accumulation of repertoire that they worked on previously to get them to be able to do what they do now. And then there's the daily practice to keep it going.

The best pianists in the world today practice every day for HOURS - and they're SUPER talented and have had the best education to get them where they are. Now if they need that kind of work to play well, what does that say about the rest of us? That we can do it with no effort?

With some materials for a guide you might be able to play it in weeks, maybe sooner. I think what people here are saying is that there is more to it than one might suppose, even in music that is very simple, and with some training you might be able to play it in a way that is more satisfying and increase the range of what you can play. If tuition isn't for you I understand. A lot of persons have a keyboard or a digital piano and just want to be able to play some things on it for casual enjoyment.

Eventually though one wants more and that is where it becomes really rewarding. Eventually a digital piano might not be enough.

Only you know what is best for you in your situation and with your priorities, I respect that.

If your digital piano at some point starts to gather dust then you know that more is needed to keep the interest alive.

Music tends to give back in proportion to what a person puts into it.

I tend to pick things up very quickly. With a few weeks of practice I can play most pieces (except of course the very high level ones) decently. The problem is that in order to do that I rewrite the piece in to a midi file so that a piece of software can interpret it and show me which keys to play. After that it becomes a struggle to find the right fingering and acquire the speed to play it well. Now currently; memorizing the piece and being able to play the notes (disregarding speed and fingering) takes me about 3 weeks to 2 months depending on the piece. That process can easily be brought down to 3-15 days depending on the piece. The problem is that I don't know where to start in order to learn that. I suppose learning to sight read is a good start but aside from that I wouldn't know.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that you can master a song within a month. Believe me when I say that after having played Für Elise for at least 5 years and thousands and thousands of repetitions of it, it is still far from perfect. Sure I don't make mistakes, sure everyone says it sounds amazing; but it's just not quite there.

As having OCPD and being a perfectionist I probably know better than others that perfection takes time, a lot of it. But the basics can go very quickly and that's what I am searching for.

A fast paced method which is fast and compact enough for me to not lose attention and for it to remain interesting and new.

I'm not looking for shortcuts, in fact; I am looking for the toughest road possible. In the end you don't learn from doing things right but from doing them wrong. But that doesn't mean that you can't learn quickly.

Do you improvise or compose? Do you play with other musicians? Do you sing or play other instruments? Many things have to be considered before anyone can give you straight advice. Its virtually impossible to offer much help without hearing you play for a few minutes.

A teacher is probably your best rout to moving beyond the simple memorizing of notes on the page or computer screen. You're at that point where the right teacher can be very positive and inspiring.

Keep playing and

Enjoy

If you find that fast paced method let me know, because the way I'm doing it is sloowwww.

I'm only a beginner and I'm nowhere near being able to play any of the pieces you mentioned, so by all means disregard anything I have to say, but I can't see how there can be a fast paced method to learning the basics. I am by no means stupid and I'm normally quick on picking things up, but these last couple of months as a beginner learning to play have been at times a painfully slow and overwhelming journey. As much as I find it frustrating at times not being able to move on as quickly as I would like, I am happy because I know I am building a good solid foundation. Every week I am learning more, and I can now look at a musical score that once looked like a blur and actually start to be able to read and understand them. I think this is the danger of the software programs, that people learn to play but they don't have any foundation to what they are playing, so therefore they get to a certain level and the tower topples over. I agree with the others that say to get a teacher, or even look at a book such as Alfred's. Goody luck with whatever you choose to do.

One thing that can help with sight reading is knowing all the Major and Minor scales and arpeggios and some music theory. When one knows instantly that C E G is the same as E-flat G B-flat, and if with familiarity one can transpose music automatically from any key to any other key (including re-imaging it in minor keys, such as with a typical sequence of relationships in a sonata movement), that is a big asset. Even just a little of that ability goes a long way.

It takes time though to develop that. Practicing those scales and arpeggios can be time consuming (and I don't think a digital piano will reveal unevenness in a scale or arpeggio the way a real piano does). But you could set aside some time every day for scales and arpeggios, and some time every day for music theory which, if it includes theory exercises, should help as well.

In which case some in-person coaching could be beneficial.

Music theory is something that can be done more on one's own - there would need to be the self-discipline to do the exercises and keep to a schedule even if it isn't very many minutes each day.

Somehow the mind responds to all of this and develops abilities it didn't have before such as improved sight-reading.

I think you'll find sight reading gradually becomes easier, much more so than by only practicing sight reading, and that memorization gradually becomes more rapid.

It sounds to me like you are doing fine. It is worth it in the end . . . except that I don't think anyone can ever get to the "end" of it all!

This sounds just like how I started out about 6-7 months ago.

I started learning what keys to press from Synthesia videos on youtube, but got frustrated that interpreting the graphics and playing through the songs every day to keep them in memory took a lot of time and effort.

I concluded that the logical step was to learn how to read music; it's a lot easier to read than synthesia in many ways, I can easily start anywhere I want in the piece, I can find music by any composer, I understand music theory better and I'll ultimately be better at sight reading.
I started reading music 5-6 weeks ago, so it's still quite slow, but I'm a lot faster now than I was in the beginning.

I'd say go to sheetmusicplus.com and buy cheap music scores, there are lots at 5-15 dollars and they often contain 10-20 songs you can practice. Should be possible to find something you'd be interested in playing.

Am I missing something here? I thought that there were no shortcuts to reading music and that it is similar to reading in general. I've been with my teacher for about five months now and I think I'm on Janet and John book two, better known as Music theory in practise grade 2, by Eric Harris. I know there are child prodigies who learn to read very quickly, can anyone tell me the average time it takes to read and understand music?
Thanks.
Phil

Phil the honest answer I think is that there is no average time.

Although the analogy of learning basic piano reading skills and learning to read a language are sometimes lumped together, I don't think they are similar at all.

I think a more accurate analogy is learning algebra. Some who are gifted in this area learn quickly, and there are some where despite major effort they will never quite get it.

After a year of lessons and much discussion with my teacher I've come to think that there are three basic types of piano students; those who are naturally gifted, those (hopefully few) that have no sense of timing, pitch, etc. and will always struggle with their lessons, and the rest of us who have some level of musical ability.

For the majority of us I think, hard work, the right teacher and time itself will reap rewards.

I just started reading "Fundamentals of Piano Practice" which has some good tips (taken with a grain of salt) for getting the most out of your practice time.

It's available for free online: http://www.pianopractice.org/book.pdf

Thanks for your comment.

I myself use the learning pack of Synthesia which means I also get to read the music and be tested on it. Meaning that it automatically finds my mistakes and forces me to correct them before moving on, AND it gives me a score based on speed and precision. That's also what I'm currently using to learn and read music.