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Hey guys,

Total beginner here. I started studying on Circle of Fifths. I got a couple questions about that.

- What kind of a benefit should i expect? I know that i will easily know what chord was used in the song as i see the sharps or flats(after learning the circle). Then what? I don't know what it exactly does(simple words please) .

- My tutor gave me a circle which shows all the sharps and flats included in all particular scales. So it is too complicated. When i checked other circle diaghrams i saw that the most of them didn't show which sharps or flats but only how many of them were included(is this sentence gramatically correct?) .

Which one should i go with?

Thanks guys. You are helping a lot.

Who is the tutor ? Why don't you ask him/her first to explain it to you ?

Circle of fifths is very helpful to learn. The best thing is to learn to draw the circle of fifths yourself.

First off, do you know what an interval of a fifth is?

Are you familiar with the piano keyboard? ie: can you look at any key on the keyboard and name the note?

As a total beginner, I think you have more important things to work on than memorizing the circle of 5ths. Eventually, you will do so ... but I see little value in it at your stage.

As a returning beginner, I found it more useful to memorize the key signatures (flashcards) and do scale exercises on the piano. For my morning exercises, I pick a random flash card and practice that scale. It's a practical application of the Circle of Fifths.

Probably none at the moment but as time goes on and your theory knowledge expands you may find yourself going back to the COF and finding things you don't what to look for at the moment. A bit like being given the Periodic Table when you first start studying science, you have to study more of the subject before the table starts making any sense.



This one tripped me up when I first started as well. So in some of the diagrams the sharps and flats are not shown. Why? because if you know the rule there is no need to show them. Example: the first scale with one sharp is G Major (or E minor) and the sharp is F#, any subsequent scale with sharps will always have an F#, so the next scale (D Major) has two sharps F# and C#, and as per the rule any subsequent scale will include F# & C#. So it is simply a case of remembering the order in which the sharps are added. The same is true for flats, hope that all makes sense.

What makes even more sense is learning the circle of 4ths.
The strongest harmonic movement in music is a 4th.

Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle.

I have tried to avoid use of NEMONIC/ACRONMYS in my music study.
Isn't there another one? "Battle ends and father charlie goes down" or some such.
Same with Every Good Boy...
It just seems to add an extra cog in a very complex machine.

Think of a beginner looking at a stave... That note means 'Boy', if it's treble, or 'something about Cows eating Grass' in bass, which means it's a letter, and if I go through my alphabet from middle C I might get lucky and find in about 30 seconds of brain squeezing.

It's like if you wanted to translate something from Latin, would you first convert it into hebrew, then into Dutch then into English?
In my mind, I'd rather just learn Latin! If I know that a note in the first space up in a F clef is that key on my keyboard, job done! It should be quicker for me to play it. No mental translation required. That equals that.

How many of you have memorised a whole song, but couldn't actually say out loud the name of a note or the key it's in?

I teach All Cows Eat Grass etc every working day. It works.

Good for you

yes



Circle of fifth is one of the basic elements of music analysis. If you are serious about learning to play music (any music)you should learn music theory



You only need to learn the sequence F C G D A E B . That is less letters than a single phone number and way less than then number of notes in a simple piece. SHould be doable

You extend this sequence to the right by adding one more sharp to every note

You extend to the left by adding one more flat to each note.

You can thus extend to infinity in both directions. But already the sequence without extension is highly useful

... on who?

Ah, no O or W in music. Now, if only we had words starting with F# and C#! or Gb and Db.

Thank you all guys. I guess i was being a little modest when i said i was a total beginner. I can do some sight reading and play several songs. My level might be pre-intermediate .

-EM_Deeka, the tutor is not capable of explain me what this is used for. So, useless to ask her.

-Yes, i know what fifth interval means. But i don't think i get why this circle works with 5 steps? Why not 4?


Thanks to you , now i know what it is used for. I downloaded and printed it. Instead of just reading it i will play some of the scales everyday. As you said learning accidentals of every scale is so easy. I guess i already got the most of it.

Re: the 4th and 5th intervals

Technically it should be called the "Circle of 4th, 5th and 6th Intervals" because all are needed to complete the circle. The scales on the right are the 5ths. The scales on the left are the 4ths. The scales in the center are the 6ths which are the relative minor scales and share the same key signatures of their major scales.

To get the circle of 4ths you simply read the circle in the opposite direction, since a perfect 5th turned upside down becomes a perfect 4th.

Yeh. In music 5+4=8.

The circle clockwise goes in 5ths... counterclockwise in 4ths. 5ths and 4ths are very convenient because when you go up in fifths... you add sharps... when you go up in 4ths... you add flats

key of C has no sharps. G has 1 sharp. D has the same sharp G plus one more. A has the same sharps D has plus one more.

This makes it easy to construct the keysignature of any key.

Also to know which sharps to add... start with F# in the key of G... and go up in 5ths.


The key of C has no sharps
The key of G has 1 sharp.... F#
The key of D has 2 sharps... F# and C#(which is a fifth up from F#)
The key of A has 3 sharps... F#,C#,G# (G# is a fifth up from C#).

Counterclockwise works the same way, but with 4ths and flats.

The key of C has no flats
The key of F has 1 flat.... Bb
The key of Bb has 2 flats... Bb and Eb(which is a fourth up from Bb)
The key of Ab has 3 flats... Bb,Eb,Ab (Ab is a fourth up from Eb).

Whether you think of them in 5th or 4ths, you're either adding a sharp/losing a flat or adding a flat/losing a sharp.

The main point in learning the circle is to see how keys are related. For example, play a D and A scale and see how the shape of the scales are only 1 note different and feel very similar under the hands.

It also helps in composition when you want to change keys. The more the scales are related (closer to each other on the circle), the smoother the transitions. That's why a song that goes from D to E is less dramatic than a song that goes from D to Eb.