Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Do I lack Rhythm

I am thinking out loud here....

I have w wide knowledge of piano theory, I know dozens of chords, left hand pattern and had loads of melody in my right hand.

However, I just can't get the whole thing to click. I feel that I am on the verge but whats holding me back because I put in tons of practice. So whats missing?

Not sure what you're asking. You're basically asking us to guess what you're lacking.

Though I'm still a beginner in piano, I've been playing guitar seriously since I was 18 (I'm 30). I've progressed rapidly through hard work & dedication, but the sole thing that made me jump leaps & bounds over everybody else who wanted to play was that unlike others, I would LISTEN!

It's amazing the amount of people I've come across my whole life who would deem themselves musicians, but fail to actually listen. They look, they go through the motions, they play the notes, but fail to make music. Why is that? Because they don't listen. If you don't listen, then you can't see what's holding you back.

I have an uncle who is just like that : knows music theory and practices a lot, but can't make any music and doesn't listen. Consequently, he can't hear the dozens of mistakes he makes every minute he plays, he can't hear what needs to be worked on or how different things sound when he does them versus somebody who knows how to play, nor can he actually feel any music. All the theory in the world is useless if you can't listen & feel the music.

As silly & frankly stupid as this may sound, I'd suggest paying real close attention to what you're doing with your ears as opposed to your eyes and hands. That's how I progressed with guitar, that's how I chased away my thick accent (English isn't my mother tongue), and that's how I'm now able to progress with the piano (and without a teacher, I might add).

Since your post is very vague and considering that I've seldom ever met anybody who listens, it's the best piece of advice I can think of to give you.

Some people might tell you to get a teacher if you don't have one or a different one if things aren't clicking, but IMHO as against the grain as the following may be, no teacher can make you listen. You either do or you don't. Nobody can make you do it, but you. Maybe this thread is what you need to motivate yourself to listen more.

Sincerely, good luck. I hope things do click for you very soon. I know how it is to invest yourself heart & soul into something that's not working out to your satisfaction right now.

Strat,

Great advice. I've read that piano is one instrument where the player does not have to listen to what they are playing. We just press the keys and out comes sound, which may not be music.

String instrument players need to listen to make sure they are playing the right note. My sister plays clarinet and there is a lot of listening to make sure the quality of her sound is good and when she needs to play to a higher register on the instrument. (not being a clarinetist, I am not sure of the right terms here.)

Ragtime Clown,

I wish I could take my own advice on this one, but it always seems there is so much to do and I feel I am making very good progress.

I have the first two of these books, and they look like they would be very good at helping with the problem you are describing in your subject line.

Sight-Read Any Rhythm Instantly
Play At First Sight
Encylcopedia of Reading Rhythms

Note that the first two books have titles that indicate they are for sight reading. As pianists, we tend to think our first goal in sight-reading is to get the right note. IMO, it is equally important (if not more important) to get the right rhythm. When sight-reading, we need to learn to keep going no matter what. Instrumentalists who play in a band or orchestra have to do this to keep up with the group. We play an instrument that is not usually played in an ensemble, so we dont' have the hours of practice with others trying to keep up.

I think the exercises in the above books are meant to be practices with an included CD or a metronome. It is definetly the latter for the Musicians Institute book - this one gives a checklist of tempos that you have mastered each rhythm at. If you want a college level course in rhythms, check out this one.

Now if I could actually work through these books myself....

Rich

To paraphrase Rich - pressing the keys is easy, getting them in the right place is where it gets difficult. Excellent post Strat. I'm hard put to add to that except to say it's about body use. Freedom from tension allows a natural flow of energy with not against gravity.

Ragtime Clown, are you using the word "rhythm" literally (I can't keep time, my playing lurches, I can't get the sense of meter)? Or do you mean it metaphorically, (It's not coming together - chords, not recognition, all of it.) ?

To try to clarify things - if I play from printed music I seem to be able to co-ordinate things much better than doing the same when playing by ear.

So this is not about rhythm as in 1-2-3 dum diddle dee, but the rhythm of coordinated playing. can you try to extrapolate and find patterns, both in the playing and your approach? In your opening post you write about your knowledge - in your head and mind intellectually acquired and then applied as a command from mind to body? Acquired how? (trying to explore)

Wish there was time to look at your blog (clues?)

Hey RC,


Why don't you post a recording or a few snippits (playing by ear rather than sheet) and give everyone a better idea of what you think may be going on. It's not unusual for people to be a little hard on themselves....you may be better than you think.

Ragtime Clown,

Have you tried to play the piece with your eyes closed? Try that; it helps me from looking down at the keyboard.

- Mark

Hence what I was saying about listening. You're looking at music instead of listening & feeling it. No wonder you're getting frustrated. With all due respect, I personally think you're going at it all wrong by continuing this way.

You're a musician, not a painter. Use your ears & stop relying on the crutch that is your sheet music. It's a guide ; not an instruction manual.

Strat, I think you are correct. I have went through various phases of piano playing and I have always been able to play quite well without any printed music. I can listen to a CD recording of most popular musc and in seconds I have the melody, by the end of a day or two I can have left hand root bass tones and right hand chords/melody playing from my ear/heart.

The minute I commit to sheet music I start to 'diminish' - I lose all sense of feeling, rythmn and dare I say it - passion!

Is it time to liberate myself and join the world of 'playing by ear'?

The world is playing by ear. They just have to sheet to remind them.

_________________________________________
quote: The world is playing by ear. They just have to sheet to remind them.
_______________________________________

Heh, heh, heh......good one!

Huh? That's not at all what I'm saying. Guess we're not communicating properly, here.

Learn the notes from sheet music (i.e. a Chopin piece), but then, put the sheet music away and play it with feeling, rubato, etc. I'm NOT saying you should listen to a Chopin nocturne for instance and try to learn it entirely by ear!

If having sheet music in front of you causes you to play like a robot, take it away and play the piece after memorizing it instead. If you end up playing with feeling and emotion without the sheet music, get rid of it after you memorized a section.

2nd tip I could give you would be to listen to other interpretations of whatever piece you're studying and attempt to mimic the dynamics of that interpretation. That will *force* you to listen because otherwise, you'll never do it properly.

Again, good luck.