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#2444781 07/27/15 02:22 AM
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I am learning this piece at the moment. Those who know it will know it's a piece that is played very quickly. I usually prefer the slower pieces so it's a challenge for me. What is the best way to build up my speed for this? Just start slowly and gradually get quicker each time (hopefully) or is there a more effective way to do it?

raskdog #2444800 07/27/15 07:12 AM
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Our speed is inherent. You cannot train for speed. If you can't run like Usain Bolt or play like Trifunov or Argerich now you aren't going to do much to improve it. You can improve it a bit but not significantly. In almost fifty years of playing I'm no quicker now than I was at the beginning in my trills or my fastest playing speed in, for example, Chopin's Minute Waltz or Beethoven's Moonlight Presto.

Playing a fast piece means taking a small enough section that you can play it at tempo without the hindrance of reading the notes or having to prepare changes mentally. For all the excellent advice about slow practise it has to be remembered that performance won't be slow. We must practise at all speeds but concentrate on the slower ones.

The speed at which you can play the critical seven measures of Sabre Dance now, the repeating ones after the intro, is about as fast as you'll ever get. Get those up to tempo so you know the right mechanics for slow practise.

I've never been one for speeding up in slow metronome clicks. I have a speed in my head at which the piece should go and I practise slowly enough for accuracy (conscious and predetermined - I must know I'm going to get it right) and as quickly as I can manage up to the right tempo for the piece. Eventually the right speed, or my physical limit, is achievable. It takes from a few minutes to a few days if the segment is short enough though I may need to use hands separately for a short while for some sections. Speed after that isn't a practical reality.

What I find is that my slow tempo increases as I practise more but my recital speed doesn't.

If you only practise a fast piece slowly it's more likely that you're practising the wrong mechanics and you may hit a 'speed wall'. Good practise for me means slow enough for predetermined and conscious accuracy of notes with the occasional blast at tempo in short but gradually longer segments. Also a whole play through of a piece you're working on should always be slower than the tempo at which you practise small sections until you can play the whole thing accurately at tempo. The adrenaline from the audience or the red dot will do the rest.



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zrtf90 #2444847 07/27/15 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by zrtf90
Our speed is inherent. You cannot train for speed. If you can't run like Usain Bolt or play like Trifunov or Argerich now you aren't going to do much to improve it. You can improve it a bit but not significantly. In almost fifty years of playing I'm no quicker now than I was at the beginning in my trills or my fastest playing speed in, for example, Chopin's Minute Waltz or Beethoven's Moonlight Presto.

Playing a fast piece means taking a small enough section that you can play it at tempo without the hindrance of reading the notes or having to prepare changes mentally. For all the excellent advice about slow practise it has to be remembered that performance won't be slow. We must practise at all speeds but concentrate on the slower ones.

The speed at which you can play the critical seven measures of Sabre Dance now, the repeating ones after the intro, is about as fast as you'll ever get. Get those up to tempo so you know the right mechanics for slow practise.

I've never been one for speeding up in slow metronome clicks. I have a speed in my head at which the piece should go and I practise slowly enough for accuracy (conscious and predetermined - I must know I'm going to get it right) and as quickly as I can manage up to the right tempo for the piece. Eventually the right speed, or my physical limit, is achievable. It takes from a few minutes to a few days if the segment is short enough though I may need to use hands separately for a short while for some sections. Speed after that isn't a practical reality.

What I find is that my slow tempo increases as I practise more but my recital speed doesn't.

If you only practise a fast piece slowly it's more likely that you're practising the wrong mechanics and you may hit a 'speed wall'. Good practise for me means slow enough for predetermined and conscious accuracy of notes with the occasional blast at tempo in short but gradually longer segments. Also a whole play through of a piece you're working on should always be slower than the tempo at which you practise small sections until you can play the whole thing accurately at tempo. The adrenaline from the audience or the red dot will do the rest.

Yes, we all have a speed wall at some point, but my impression is that, as we progress in our piano student life, our speed follows a sigmoidal curve--slow increase in the early days, then rapid improvement through the intermediate stages, then a leveling off. Are you saying you can only play a trill as fast now, after fifty years, as you could after one? Can you accurately judge that?

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I've never been one for speeding up in slow metronome clicks.
Agree, although that's contingent on what you consider slow metronome clicks. smile For me, I use about four, plus or minus one.



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raskdog #2444890 07/27/15 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Stubbie
Are you saying you can only play a trill as fast now, after fifty years, as you could after one? Can you accurately judge that?
That's a good point but I'm fairly sure the speed at which I can rotate my arm has little changed. For someone ready to tackle Sabre Dance, though, they're probably close to their potential on speed.

I'd be interested in hearing more from teachers or researchers about this.

Originally Posted by Stubbie
...although that's contingent on what you consider slow metronome clicks...
Anything in between playable accurately and at tempo. smile

I don't chase the metronome. I take fragments up to full tempo within a few days of starting out, even if it means just three or four notes or hands separately, then slow down to practise.



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raskdog #2445391 07/29/15 04:46 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions and advice. Hopefully I will be able to present this as a recital piece someday.

raskdog #2446152 07/31/15 05:01 AM
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This is a very tricky subject. Most will tell you to practice slowly. However if you practice slowly only you will finally play the piece slowly as well. Cranking up the metronome after that will not be effective and give you maybe a doubling of the speed, not more.

My take at this is that you need both fast and slow practice. Without the fast practice you will get stuck with slow speeds.

Last edited by wouter79; 07/31/15 05:01 AM.

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