Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Heavy-Handed Concern

Hello folks. A Roland HP-307 has been stationed in my living area for the past couple of weeks, and a few different people have tried it out. One friend was very heavy-handed, and I am left to wonder. How hard is too hard, and can such playing damage the instrument? I am attempting to keep the digital piano in excellent condition, and I worried that it will be damaged. Are my concerns valid, or am I being overprotective? Thank you in advance.

I tried an experiment once with my P155. It was instructive. Connect the piano to a computer and look at the values in the MIDI data. Keep playing louder and louder until you max out the MIDI numbers at 127, I found you really need to pound on the keys hard enough that I wondered if you 'd damage the piano to get the full scale velocity. It was instructive because I fund out I was not getting the full dynamic range out of the P155 because I was afraid use so much force

How hard is to loud? Well once you get to 127 there is nothing to be gained by hitting the keys harder. And I can only assume the keyboard is designed to withstand whatever force is required to reach 127. It's an easy enough experiment to try.

Given that a digital piano will likely be struck repeatedly - probably daily - for years, I assume they are designed to take the punishment. I doubt that one or two heavy-handed "performances" will cause damage, unless it's hard enough to break the keys.

Usually, there is a part on the underside of the key which will bottom out against a fairly sturdy felt-covered rail, which will prevent over-extension of the key weight. This happens well before the sensors begin to take a beating, meaning that the most you have to fear is breaking a key. Even that is fairly unlikely. I bought a Kurzweil with some extensively damaged (ie destroyed) keys, but with no internal damage at all.

It is possible to break the portion of the key that pushes against the hammer, but again, that is merely a broken key. Most damage occurs when the instrument is dropped, or something heavy is dropped on it, causing a sudden, undampened force to the keys.

If it was me, I wouldn't like it. I hate pounding, or unnecessarily hard playing. I would ask him to lighten up or stop. Friend or no friend, I just care too much about my musical instruments, whether it's a real piano or a digital keyboard, to let anyone play too hard on them.

If you need to play one of my keyboards, then play sensitively, without banging, or please don't play it at all. I don't think that's too much to ask. It's just common courtesy and respect, if nothing else.

Mychal

We don't know yet if the force used was excessive. I think the OP was asking how to determine if it was excessive or just "expressive". With an acoustic piano there is no hard line, they just play louder and louder until, I guess something breaks but a digital piano has a hard and well defined line: Once the velocity reaches 127 any more force is excessive.

My old Clavinova has 5 or so keys (all black) in the two octaves around middle C (2 F#, A# and D# etc) that frequently once pressed (even gently) don't come back up. This has happened several times in the last 24 months, but taking it to pieces and replacing keys (they are cheap and easy to obtain from Yamaha) takes me 1/2 day (you have to dissmantle the keybed itself). I do hit MIDI 127 when playing loudly (and then some). Are these related or is this because its a bit long in the tooth (CLP 350)? At least its an excuse to upgrade at some point!

One of my digital pianos had several keys ruined (no longer return after pressing) by the repeated heavy handed playing of a neighbor kid. This is a valid concern. If you ask the manufacturers directly about the duty life of these instruments, heavy handed playing is the first thing they ask you about. Even an acoustic piano will have its wear and tear accelerated from banging.

There were times when I was a beginner, and my friend who learned to play on upright piano with hard action played it, and I thought it was way too strong playing. But after few years in some moments I play a bit louder than in those times, and now I understand him. That's because I need more expression and I feel connection between me and instrument in very different way than when I was a beginner.
I have Roland EP-77 which is in use for ten years or more. There were times when I played long parts of concert fff, and I've done hundreds of slides. And keyboard is in 100% condition. Only thing that wears are contact rubbers, which means some key plays very loud or very quiet compared to others; this can occur after years of playing, but you Korg to Yamaha.
I know some Yamahas has problem with breaking invisible parts of the keys when you use sliding - I know it's present in Yamaha Motif8, Motif ES8, S90, S90ES, MO8. I don't know if heavy conventional playing cause this. Also I don't know about other models; but many people glue it on their own or buy keys and replace it.

Likely it is the "and then some" part that causes the trouble.

Maybe they need to have a little red LED that goes on if you pass 127. It would cost nothing but a bit of firmware to add a warning light like that if they'd flash an existing LED

Maybe they need to have a little red LED that goes on if you pass 127. It would cost nothing but a bit of firmware to add a warning light like that if they'd flash an existing LED

This seem like one of those ideas that make sense to a few of us but the marketing execs would say "No! Then someone will think our board is failing, and/or judgemental and/or distracting" etc.
All part of the "if it offends, take it away even though it was useful" school of design.

Come on in my opinion well designed keyboard should accept at least 150% of maximum velocity without damaging, so limit is the fact, that you hear no change during playing harder and harder. If you can't hear that, maybe you can't see LED too Yes, that would be distracting and also a sign of fear from manufacturer, that crappy keyboard may be damaged. Because in my experience Roland keyboards can survive almost any kind of playing, and I suspect others like Yamaha too. But if you bought cheap Casio, maybe it's worth investing some LED in that brand I believe a key can brake or even fall out after one week (my friends case...).

Why would anyone want to treat their instrument that way? You spend all that time and money to find one that's nice for you, and then hit it that hard? It doesn't make any sense.

There's no way a keyboard that is played hard over time is going to last as long, or play as well, as a keyboard that is played with a good touch.

Mychal

I say it should be reliable, because it gives player freedom to experiment, fun, go crazy, making mistakes. Also, when you WORK as a musician you practice many hours, and you have to be sure that keyboard can handle that, even if you are practicing some crazy fff piece. 150% would be losing mind of course but when you practice, especially in the beginning, you should play forte, to learn to achieve full richness of sound from your instrument, and it's true also when you are, for example, wind player.

In CN Tower they have glass floor. To make sure it's safe, they made it so strong, than it can handle 12 elephants. Reserve = guarantee. So every good keyboard should be produced with a proper reserve, which gives us one worry less.

Let's hope you're right, kiedysktos!

Actually, I play pretty hard sometimes, and I've never had a keybed/action problem on a DP.

150% is not a lot. Our ears work on a logarithmic scale as it turns out 150% force (a 50% increase) only makes a barley noticeable difference.

One digital piano the velocity senors switches are out of the picture before the key bottoms out. The is nothing being hit hard except a felt pad. Acoustic pianos are different, lot of parts in those

Lastly, unless you've looked at the MIDI values how do you know where the 100% point is? I looked and found out what I thought is really hard playing has only about high 90's