Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner?

Posted by: Jeanne W

Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/07/04 02:49 PM

FWIW: If you're interested in comparing the sound of different pianos on a CD check out: "Songs Without Words II" A Windham Hll Piano Collection. There are 11 solo piano pieces. The type of piano being played is indicated on 8 of the selections.

Here's a link to hear sound clips. I like this CD - it is a nice collection.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...3080749-1788657

Selections:
1 Yamaha grands (2 being played back and forth)
2-?? but sounds like a Baldwin to me-it has that gutsy sound.
3-Steinway D
4-Yamaha C7
5-??
6-Grotrian
7-??
8-Hamburg Steinway
9-Yamaha S6
10-Baldwin Baby Grand
11-Steinway Grand

Random notes:

Selection #2-Oh. I like the sound of this piano! Punchy. Sassy. Gutsy. Sounds very much to me like the Baldwin Bruce Hornsby played on some his old CD's, so I'm guessing it's a Baldwin. Any other guesses out there as to what kind it is? Listen to that punchy bass-it's gotta be a Baldwin!? Curry? You out there? What do you think?

3-Steinway D. This Steinway D sounds decidedly different to me than the S&S D that I love so much on pianist/composer Kostia's CD "Suite St. Petersburg" . Soundclip link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...3080749-1788657

The D on the "Songs W/O Words II" has IMO a bit more of what I consider the "Baldwin sound". Not as sweet a sound as I associate with Steinways. But then, Steinways can vary considerably one to another. And then there's always the tons of variables in the recording process. Any more exageration in the tone and there'd be a hint of brittleness to the treble.

4-Yamaha C7. To me, brittle sounding treble. But then, that's part of what makes for the wonderful clarity Yamaha's have.

6-Grotrian: It sounds terrific, but it confirms to me that I chose the right piano (for me.) I do prefer the Steinway sound. Grotrian pianos are fantastic for those who prefer the European tone.

10-Baldwin Baby Grand: After hearing this Baldwin and remembering how the Baldwins sound on some of the Bruce Hornsby CD's I have, I wish I'd found more of them to play during my piano search and paid more attention to them. You can tell this is a baby Baldwin, but you can still hear the gutsy sound that seems to be typical of the Baldwin sound. Baldwins are not sweet sounding, but they're also not as "cold" to me as the European pianos that emphasize fundamental. (The "cold" comment-don't hurt me, people! It's just my opinion. I'm sure there will be many who strongly disagree.)

I had the opportunity to play Curry's Baldwin at Cunninghams in Philly. Terrific piano, Curry, if you're reading this. I could feel in the keyboard all the work Rich said you put in. It played like quicksilver. I wonder why I didn't see more Baldwins during my piano search. I thought Baldwins were very popular. Where did they all go? I think the one at Cunninghams is the only one we found, well, there might have been one other. Oh, yes, as I recall - one at a different dealer in just awful condition. Poor thing. Only 2 Baldwins after visiting pianos dealers in 11 states. Strange-O.

Hey, I asked my husband “Wasn’t that the name of a Peter, Paul & Mary song from the sixties? Where Have All The Baldwins Gone?”

He said he thinks he knows where all the Baldwins have gone. He thinks they all went to….

The Hair Club For Men.

Get it?

:rolleyes:

Heh, heh, heh.

Jeanne W
Posted by: Mat D.

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/07/04 03:30 PM

Listening through my cheapo walkman headphones, the Michael Feinstein cut (#10)sounded the best to my ears. It was very believeable...some of the others almost sound (maybe they are) like sampled pianos played on a MIDI controller.

#9 also sounded good...

Mat D.

Frankly, I'm not too crazy about most of the New-Age-ish piano music. It just lacks inventiveness....listen to a Chopin Prelude or Waltz and it's like a breath of fresh air after hearing some of these cuts.

My $.02

Mat D.
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/07/04 06:34 PM

Mat:

I'm thinking the sound quality we're all hearing thru the net is not as good as on a good stereo. The combination of the sample quality and playback thru a personal computer and pc speakers or headphones - I wonder if the sound quality can be as good as cd stereo playback?

There was an article in The Boston Globe (today, I think) about downloading music via the web. The writer says the sound quality is not as good as what you get with a cd on a stereo.

I'm pretty sure all of the pianos are acoustic. Surely they wouldn't play digitals on a CD that celebrates piano. None of the pianos sound sampled to me. But I I'm basing my opinion on playback on my home stereo system - I didn't listen to the soundclips on the web.

I like classical and new age. I like many other kinds of music as well. You're right, most of the stuff on the cd does sound new age-ish or popular. There's no classical on it.

I just got a new CD and am hearing Chopin's Preludes for the first time, which I'm very much enjoying. Interesting. Educational, even, hearing all of the different composing styles. Chopin is my favorite classical composer.

Thanks for posting.

Jeanne W
Posted by: RealPlayer

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/07/04 07:17 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

I'm thinking the sound quality we're all hearing thru the net is not as good as on a good stereo. The combination of the sample quality and playback thru a personal computer and pc speakers or headphones - I wonder if the sound quality can be as good as cd stereo playback?

There was an article in The Boston Globe (today, I think) about downloading music via the web. The writer says the sound quality is not as good as what you get with a cd on a stereo.

[/b]
Jeanne,

I do think you're right about this. I'm not even sure a recording captured over the net onto CD will sound very good on a stereo.

There was some article an audio guy told me about (don't know where it appeared). The author is a top audio designer and head of Sears Sound in NYC. He was frustrated that he has spent a lifetime developing music systems so they sound *great* and that many people today, owing to the limitations of computer music technology (sampling rates and other stuff I don't know about) think that what's actually *mediocre* is really great. In other words, why bother with the "high end" if people can't discriminate?
Posted by: curry

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/07/04 07:50 PM

Jeanne, selection #2 definite Baldwin. Sounds like an SF-10.
Posted by: Steve Ramirez

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/07/04 08:17 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
I just got a new CD and am hearing Chopin's Preludes for the first time, which I'm very much enjoying. Interesting. Educational, even [/b]
I read somewhere that Chopin was first and foremost a teacher. He has plenty to teach us with those preludes.
Posted by: Tony C

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/07/04 09:33 PM

Very interesting, but does anybody know where I can find recordings for M&H on the web?
Posted by: ChickGrand

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/07/04 11:13 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ramirez:
I read somewhere that Chopin was first and foremost a teacher. He has plenty to teach us with those preludes. [/b]
I've had a hefty book of Chopin preludes for 30 years but only ever played one--till this week, when I decided to work on sight-playing with the Chopin. I'm truly enjoying sight playing through them all and I certainly feel like I'm learning fresh technique.
Posted by: 88Key_PianoPlayer

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/07/04 11:47 PM

I'm in the same boat as Tony C, somewhat - I've occasionally looked on the net for recordings made with a particular piano, but without success. I've been wondering where I could download MP3's (full length, at least 160kbps 32kHz or 256kbps 44kHz) of music (classical, hymnal, religious, rock (without the guitars and drums and vocals), and others (not new-age or jazz though unless it's like 20s or 30s jazz) played on any of the following pianos:
(/me gets Fine 2004 supplement for reference...)
Astin-Weight U-500, Baldwin 6000, Baldwin SD-10, Bechstein D-280, Bluthner 1, Bosendorfer 275, Bosendorfer 280, Bosendorfer 290 (especially recordings that use the extra low bass notes), Estonia 273, Fandrich & Sons Model 305 (if one is ever made...) Fazioli F278, Fazioli F308, August Forster 275, Grotrian Concert Royal, Kawai GS-100, Kawai EX, Kawai EX-G, Shigeru Kawai SK-EX, Mason & Hamlin CC, Pearl River GP-275, Pearl River GP-328, Petrof 135, Petrof I, Petrof P1, Sauter 275, Schimmel CO 256 T, Seiler 242, Steingraeber 138, Steingraeber E-272, Steinway D (New York & Hamburg), Charles Walter W-274+ (whenever one comes out - the + indicates that I'd prefer the piano to be 274cm or longer), Yamaha CFIIIs, and any uprights over 55" tall and grands at least 8'6" long made before 1930 that are at least overstrung with 88 keys (and for uprights, underdamper actions)

I would especially appreciate a link to a website that lets you search by various criteria, including sound file format (multiple choice, including wav, wma, mp3, ogg, ra, etc), quality (bitrate and sample rate independent of each other), type of piano (including brand and model, maybe even serial #), and other options.
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/08/04 03:51 AM

Tony C:

I, too, wanted to hear a Mason & Hamlin on a CD. When I heard Peter Kater's "Piano" cd for the first time months ago, I had thought he might be playing a M+H. I emailed Peter. He emailed back he played a Young Chang on his "Piano" cd. The Young Chang is a bright, brilliant sounding piano-lots of clarity. I think it fits his sound.

Here's a sound clip to hear the Young Chang on Peter Kater's "Piano" cd.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...3080749-1788657

I'll look at my notes. I can't remember now if I actually found a CD with a M+H identified on it- OH, I DID! There is a Michael Allen Harrison CD (not to be confused with Michael Harrison of Faust/Harrison) that he emailed me saying he played a Mason & Hamlin. I'll get that info into this thread for you-this evening, hopefully.

Curry: So you agree it sounds like a Baldwin?! Now I can tell my husband you agree. He said to me it makes it more difficult (accurately, I think) to evaluate a piano's sound unless you're listening to the same kind of music from piano to piano. He was trying to compare the piano sound on selection 2, to the baby Baldwin piano that is played on selection 10 (completely different kind of music), to try to hear a similarity in tonal quality. I guess my ear aint too shabby, after all. \:\)

RealPlayer/Joe:

Re: Sound quality over net downloads/soundclips, etc.: The Boston Globe article said something like - the amount of information that is contained in the music files on the net is much less than what is contained on a cd. I'm struggling to explain this, I'm not a technical type person.

Jeanne W
Posted by: RealPlayer

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/08/04 08:00 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tony C:
Very interesting, but does anybody know where I can find recordings for M&H on the web? [/b]
Well, I guess I'm going to have to post some recordings of mine. \:D

I don't know about the net, but somebody mentioned that Garrick Ohlsson recorded the Chopin Mazurkas on a Mason CC.
Posted by: Sarah Jennings

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/08/04 08:17 AM

It would be great to have a thread in which people post a recording from their pianos....and have a broad range of pianos represented. I can clearly hear the difference between the pianos on this CD, and have found it very interesting to listen to these clips.

- Sarah
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/08/04 01:17 PM

Tony C:

To hear a Mason & Hamlin on a cd...

http://mahrecords.com/album_emotional_connection.htm

The above link takes you to a soundclip from a CD called "Emotional Connection" by Michael Allen Harrison (MAH). The song you'll hear is "February Child". MAH emailed me that he was playing a 7ft Mason and Hamlin BB on his "Emotional Connection" CD. It'd be nice to know what year M+H it was, but that's unknown to me.

The clip is over 3 minutes. You can hear the whole piece of music. Even considering the sound is supposedly degraded a bit because it's a clip over the web, you can hear to super strength of the treble.

Course, I guess, it could be the sound guys who mixed the CD manipulated the sound of the piano, but I don't think that's the case. The super fantastic strong treble you hear - that's typical of the Mason & Hamlins I played during my piano search.

Oh, I just listened to the soundclip again. Be still my heart. What a fantastic sounding piano! And this is just a teaser of what this piano is capable of. Mason & Hamlins can be thunderous as well as quiet and demure.

Anyone wishing to listen further to M+H clips, MAH emailed that he played the Mason & Hamlin 7 ft BB on his following CD's:

Emotional Connection

Circle of Influence

Passion and Grace
(I had written a note that the piano in the title song piano sounds bright; while the pinao on "Alone Again" "Gale" piano is more mellow. ??)

Enchanged Christmas Vol. 1

Enchanted Christmas Vol1

Tribute to Gershwin

Seasons of Peace

The Nutcracker Suite

I listened to the web soundclips from the above CDs some time ago. As I recall, some of the CDs may have a lot of accompaniment; you may only be able to hear a snippet of the M+H here and there.

You can hear the soundclips at amazon.com

If soundclips are not available there, you can check out MAH's website mahrecords.com

Jeanne W
Posted by: Steve Ramirez

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/08/04 01:29 PM

Here is a link to a couple of soundclips of a vintage Mason BB rebuilt by Del.

http://www.seattlepianogallery.com/cat/mason-15455/

Maybe somebody will see this and buy it. They've had it for a while.
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/08/04 01:35 PM

OK, Steve. I clicked on the link but I'm not finding a soundclip for Del's vintage Mason BB. \:\(

Help.

Jeanne W
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/08/04 01:37 PM

Oh, I found it. It's not in blue as links often are. It's at the bottom of the page. It turns blue when you scroll the mouse to it.

Duh.

Sorry, Steve. Thanks for posting the soundclip!

Jeanne W
Posted by: Steve Ramirez

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/08/04 01:38 PM

At the bottom of the page. Handel Allemande and Shostakovich Prelude.
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/08/04 01:43 PM

Steve:

I just listened to the clip. My heart is going pit-a-pat. It's gorgeous. Why the hell hasn't someone bought it yet? (Scuse my lanquage, you got me all in a dither here.)

Hello Out There: Someone please rescue this piano! It's sitting alone all by itself waiting for some to love it and give it a good home!

Jeanne W
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/08/04 01:51 PM

Just have to add:

Del's Mason seems to have that deep sonorous timbre typical of the older Masons. The newer Masons are a bit more brilliant in tone. Most, anyway.

Jeanne W
Posted by: ChickGrand

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/08/04 02:00 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
Steve:

I just listened to the clip. ...It's gorgeous. [/b]
I particularly like the sound of it for the Shostakovich. The bass is wonderful. But what is that sound in the highest treble that sounds quite like a plucked instrument, almost harpsichord-like, which is more evident in the Handel, but not wholly absent in the Shostakovich? I'm assuming it's strictly overtones, or upper partials as it doesn't sound like notes of that pitch are being struck. Is this emblematic of the "complex" Mason sound?
Posted by: Casalborgone

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/09/04 03:15 PM

Hi All! This is my first post, after lurking here for a month.

This discussion of piano tone is of great interest to me. I think it is most useful to tie discussions of tone to specific recordings which are available to all on the internet. I do think that the quality of the recording is important, but I also think that an mp3 can give a good sense of the tonal quality of a particular piano, even if it is not very high in "fi."

I think it might be interesting to try to develop a more accurate language regarding tonal quality, with perhaps reference to recordings of specific pianos. If we had graphic representations of the overtone series of particular pianos, recorded in a uniform fashion, we might actually be able to do this scientifically. We won't have such graphs, but I think we can refine our vocabulary anyway.

One problem lies, IMHO, in the use of terms such as "bright" or "dark" with regard to piano tone. I think these words are too abstract. I suggest we use terms which are more sound, or hearing-specific, rather than "bright" or "dark" which work better for visual experience. We probably will never agree about which piano is "bright" or "dark" but we probably would agree whether a visual image, or the illumination of the sky at sunset, or a thundercloud, is "bright" or "dark."

So I will stick my neck out here and assert that the tone quality I hear often in European pianos, say Schimmels or Hamburg Steinways, is that of a bell. In listening to the mp3s of the Windham Hill recording, this was clearly evident in #6 (Grotrian) for example.

Not that this quality cannot be found in American pianos with, say, certain hammer, scale and downbearing characteristics. I recall many years ago, when I was an active technician (I have been retired from the trade for 30 years but am still a member of the PTG, a wonderful organization), I tuned a new Baldwin console piano for a dealer which had the wonderful bell-like character I usually associate with a Hamburg Steinway. I happen to love this quality of tone (but I also love the tone quality of many quite-different-sounding pianos); both the dealer and I were quite taken with this little piano and its oddly unBaldwin character.
Posted by: Mat D.

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/10/04 07:56 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ramirez:
Here is a link to a couple of soundclips of a vintage Mason BB rebuilt by Del.

http://www.seattlepianogallery.com/cat/mason-15455/

Maybe somebody will see this and buy it. They've had it for a while. [/b]
Now this is much more convincing to me than any of the above clips...Nice work Del.

The tonal character of the piano was very nice...if it had been in perfect tune, even better, but I realize this was not a "for release" recording...all the more reason I like it better than the other examples above, which WERE professionally recorded & released.

I don't have a website to upload my recording of my own BB--I have some recordings of piano & cello and also a couple of solo piano---recorded in my living room on my M&H BB a couple of years ago...does someone have a web address where I could upload these? I'd be glad to share them here...it seems people want to hear M&H BB's...you might like these.

Mat D.
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/11/04 06:44 AM

RealPlayer/Joe & Matt D/Caslborgone:

I hope you'll post your M+H clips. I'd love to hear them and sure others would, too. And it would be interesting to hear the differences in the sound of the Masons, whether due to differences in recording or the pianos themselves.

\:\)

Jeanne W
Posted by: Steve Ramirez

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/11/04 07:41 AM

Stolen from another thread:

"Here is a link to a clip from a CD in which the Shigeru concert piano is used:
http://www.earlwild.com/

Go to recordings, and listen to some of the clips from Earl Wild at 88."

Astonishing piano and pianist!
Posted by: RealPlayer

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/11/04 07:48 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
RealPlayer/Joe & Matt D/Caslborgone:

I hope you'll post your M+H clips. I'd love to hear them and sure others would, too. And it would be interesting to hear the differences in the sound of the Masons, whether due to differences in recording or the pianos themselves.
[/b]
I'd love to, but I'm technology-poor, having only a single cheapo stereo microphone that I use just to monitor my own playing. It won't do the piano justice. Maybe if I can borrow good mikes from a musician friend and get some instruction on how to set them up, I can post something.

This is the same problem I have contributing to the PW CD.

Or I could just phone you up. When the piano arrived, I played over the phone for some friends, and they were pretty impressed. \:D
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/11/04 01:40 PM

Steve:

Thanks for posting the soundclip of the Shigeru! There is a CD you can order from the Shigeru website of a jazz pianist (which I did). There are no soundclips to link to for that cd, though, that I could find on the net.

Joe:

I don't have any recording stuff either. Once I have my grand piano, my next project will be getting a recording set up to record some of my music. (I'll probably have to do a thousand takes to get one piece recorded w/o mistakes. :rolleyes: )

Too bad PW members don't have some way of sharing our recording equipment.

Jeanne W
Posted by: Derick

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/12/04 09:26 AM

Here's my Bösendorfer. Although the sound quality isn't great, you'll get the idea.

http://artistsong.com.pl?id=6373

Derick
Posted by: Hannibal

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/12/04 01:52 PM

Wow, great recording! To me that sounds awfully good!
What recording equipment did you use?

Sorry to sound ignorant but is it one of your own compositions?

RG TL
Posted by: mikhailoh

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/12/04 02:43 PM

WELL! No Prambergers... harrumph. (he said, with an air of .. well.. something)

\:D \:D
Posted by: Derick

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/12/04 04:54 PM

I borrowed some friend's equipment. He has some pretty good mics.

Not one of my compositions, a weepy, love song, made famous by Anne Murray sometime in the '70s.

Derick
Posted by: Mat D.

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/12/04 07:05 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
RealPlayer/Joe & Matt D/Caslborgone:

I hope you'll post your M+H clips. I'd love to hear them and sure others would, too. And it would be interesting to hear the differences in the sound of the Masons, whether due to differences in recording or the pianos themselves.

\:\)

Jeanne W [/b]
I'd love to post my clips, but have nowhere to upload them to------maybe Frank would post a couple clips of my BB...anyone have some webspace so I could post a link to these clips??

Thanks,
Mat D.
Posted by: Christopher T

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/13/04 01:27 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
Oh, I just listened to the soundclip again. Be still my heart. What a fantastic sounding piano! And this is just a teaser of what this piano is capable of. Mason & Hamlins can be thunderous as well as quiet and demure.[/b]
I have got to agree, that song and that PIANO! OMG soooooo incredible. My Petrof will hold out for now until I can afford a M&H BB, which is more than 2x the price!
Posted by: RealPlayer

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/13/04 06:47 AM

Derick,

I tried accessing your Bosie clip but got the message "Unknown Host." Did you remove the clip?
Posted by: Derick

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/13/04 06:48 AM

Yes, I removed it.

Derick
Posted by: KawaiDon

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/13/04 08:24 AM

For those wanting to hear a Shigeru Kawai concert grand, here is a link:

http://www.earlwild.com/recordings/review.html?disc=IvoryClassicsCD-73005

Don Mannino RPT
Kawai America
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/13/04 02:46 PM

It'd be great if we could hear Bluthner and Steingraeber soundclips. And a Grotrian that classical piano music is being played. Does anyone know of any CDs with these pianos being played?

Derick: You removed your soundclip before I got a chance to listen to it. \:\(

Guess we better add Bosendorfer back to the list of soundclips to add.

Hey, Dan M: If you're out there, how about adding a soundclip of your Charles Walter here?

Jeanne W
Posted by: ASBpiano

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/13/04 02:49 PM

I really like the Mason & Hamlin A. I will definitely post some recordings of my 1929 rebuilt A once I get a good microphone.

By the way, Garrick Ohlsson does record on a Mason & Hamlin. Here are some Beethoven sonatas played by Ohlsson on a Mason & Hamlin, I believe rebuilt, but not sure of the year or model.

http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?userid=z0s1RIPH1I&EAN=26724667725&ITM=5

-Ari
Posted by: Derick

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/17/04 11:20 AM

I put the recording back for a limited engagement.

Derick
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/17/04 12:03 PM

Thanks, Derick, for reposting your soundclip of your Bosendorfer.

I hope your soundclip's "limited engagement" is long enough for me to get my husband around to do whatever it is that needs to be done so I can hear it. It's not one of those "just click and listen soundclips" - at least for me. I'm not the best with techie computer stuff, so I need to get Lloyd to do whatever needs to be done so I can hear it.

I'm looking forward to hearing it. \:\)

Jeanne W
Posted by: Derick

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/17/04 12:23 PM

Jeanne,

When you click on that link it should bring you to a page with my wonderful picture on it. Underneath that it should say "Listen hifi or lofi". Just click on hifi. If you don't have Windows Media Player installed on your system, or RealPlayer, or neither has the ".mp3" box checked, it may not play... But that's easy to fix. I'll leave it up until tonight.

Derick
Posted by: Grotriman

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/17/04 01:21 PM

You know I've been following this thread, sort of, but it really makes no sense.

The other month WNYC had a radio show about pianos other than Steinway. They played a recording of a Fazioli that made the piano sound so bad it was laughable. And the Fazioli has a really nice sound.

These type of comparisons are valid only if the same recording venue, same mike setup and same equpment are used and the different pianos are rolled into the recording spot.

Otherwise I think there is no real comparison being made here other than between recording techniques.

And BTW JeanneW we've been struggling through your choice for so long... What was it? Did I miss it somewhere? I know you want a Steinway. What size did you pick? Old/New?
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/17/04 01:24 PM

Derick:

On my pc it doesn't play thru Windows Media Player or Realplayer, but through Jukebox and my husband is having a hard time with it also. It plays a millionth of a second then cuts out; then pauses and plays another millionth of a second, and keeps going on like that.

Lloyd's watching football right now. Gotta get him back up here to fix this later. What I can hear sound *absolutely awesome*.

I'm even wondering if it's the same piano I'm hearing on some CD's that I'm trying to find out what piano it is. Pianist/composer Michael Gettel plays a piano that has a very distinctive echo like quality. Well, I can't really hear your soundclip that well, but what I am hearing of it makes me wonder if it sounds like that other piano.

Holy Moley! Oh, man. What I can hear sounds absolutely \:D

I'll try again later.

DON'T TAKE THAT SOUND CLIP OFF TOO SOON!!!!!

Jeanne W

P.S. When did you last get your piano tuned? To my untrained ears it sounds right on.
Posted by: Derick

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/17/04 01:30 PM

MusicMatch Jukebox is a PITA! I have it too and am ready to pitch it. Anyway, this may be the problem... Bring it up (wait 10 minutes haha), go to Option->Playlist->Settings. Make sure the MP3 box is checked. Check it if it isn't and try again. That's probably too simple to be the problem but it's worth checking out before you pull Lloyd away from the football game!

Derick
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/17/04 03:37 PM

Grotriman:

I did buy a piano! Here's the thread.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8015.html

I agree with you that there should be a disclaimer (did I do that?) here that listening to soundclips of a piano might be misleading.

We should consider that the recording of the piano can make a difference in how it sounds (the recording setup and possible manipulation of the final recording) and also that you are listening to one particular piano - and pianos can differ somewhat one to another due to differences in
voicing, etc.

The best experience of a piano is to *go out and play one*. But barring that, for those who don't have the opportunity, well...

I do feel listening to soundclips can have some value. Many of them seem pretty realistic, certainly fairly representative of the real thing.

As far as variables, an example of what you are pointing out can be heard in the many Steinways on CDs. There are so many recordings done on Steinways you can hear the variables you are talking about. I think I said this on this thread before - I've heard Steinways on CDs that vary widely in how they sound.

An example of this can be heard in a Liz Story CD. She is a Steinway artist. I -hopefully correctly- assume she is playing Steinways on all of her CDs. Story's "Welcome Home" CD is a collection of pieces from her various CDs. Listen to Clip #1 Bradley's Dream, OK sounding Steinway, then listen to clip #10 Escape of Circus Ponies. If that's a Steinway, it's awfully peculiar sounding, almost harpsichord like. What do you think?

So yes, G, your point is well taken. \:\)

Link to hear soundclips from Liz Story CD. Click below, then scroll down to reach the soundclips.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...8654022-6420050

Jeanne W
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/17/04 03:48 PM

Derick:

Lloyd had some trouble getting the soundclip to play but finally got it. As I was listening, your playing and your piano brought a big smile to my face. Oh, how beautiful.

I hope hope hope you are going to contribute that piece to the PW World CD. I'd love to have a copy of it. Are you making any CDs soon? I'll buy one.

What a gorgeous sounding piano. And I love those dee-da-da-da-dee-dee-da's - how you tickle the ivories in the treble.

Are you planning on having a concert soon? I'm betting lot's of PW members would attend. \:\)

Jeanne W
Posted by: Tocca

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/17/04 04:14 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
Mat:

I'm thinking the sound quality we're all hearing thru the net is not as good as on a good stereo. The combination of the sample quality and playback thru a personal computer and pc speakers or headphones - I wonder if the sound quality can be as good as cd stereo playback?

There was an article in The Boston Globe (today, I think) about downloading music via the web. The writer says the sound quality is not as good as what you get with a cd on a stereo.
[/b]
Music downloaded from the net can be exactly as good as on a CD... IF it has the same quality.
But most music you find on the net is compressed, to make it smaller and easier to download.
A CD is about an hour, and it's about 700MB. That's about 12MB per minute. Compress it to a MP3 and you'll have "good" sound for a tenth of that space.

But if you find music of CD-quality on the net, it will be the same thing as a CD. You need to have a digital output on the soundcard and then connect it to your stereo to get the same sound as when you play your CD though.

We'll need to have MUCH faster internet before this will be a reality though, i think.
..."Download my concert from yesterday, it's only 2GB"... Don't think there would be many takers... \:\)
Posted by: Derick

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/17/04 05:07 PM

Thanks Jeanne for your glowing review. I haven't decided if I am going to put that piece on my CD or not. The song I want to put it after is in the same key so I will either have to change keys, rearrange the order of the songs or simply not include it.

Anyway, when/if I get the CD produced I will send you a free copy.

Derick
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/21/04 05:49 PM

Are we hearing a Bluthner here?

I may have found a soundclip of a Bluthner! In the process of searching on the internet for a soundclip of a Bluthner piano, a link to an Ebay page came up. If you click on the link below, you'll be taken to an Ebay page that states the seller cannot tell you which German piano they are selling.

You can scroll down the page to the big red lettering "Hear Before You Bid" to hear a soundclip. This soundclips are in purple on the left. The piano sounds fantastic.

But the question is, is it really a Bluthner? If you scroll way down past the soundclip, to the bottom of the page, you will find photos of the piano, including a shot of the inside. If you click on the smaller photos, they get bigger.

Can anyone verify from the photo of the plate and string set up whether this is a actually Bluthner?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43376&item=3756085856&rd=1&tc=photo

Jeanne W

Derick: I'd love to have a copy of your CD! Thank you so much. \:\)
Posted by: curry

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/21/04 06:10 PM

Jeanne, it is definitely not a Bluthner. It is not single strung, does not have the signature blue stringing braid, or the Bluthner soundboard decal. The one picture is of an upright action.
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/21/04 06:30 PM

Curry: I didn't really think the soundclip sounded like a Bluthner. It's not a good thing that the search for Bluthner brings up this ad. Ebay buyers beware! Misleading things are going on. (Everyone here says this, don't they?)

A recent CD (collection of different pianists/composer's music) I bought has a selection on it. Immediately upon hearing it for the first time, I thought, it reminds me of a Bluthner.

Now, I could be waaaaay off here. I just remember the Bluthners I played struck me as being so very different in tonal quality. As "fundamental" a tone as could be. No complexity at all.

That is the way the piano on Selection #5 strikes me. But then as I listen, I also start to wonder if the piano being played in Selectin #5 by Mia Jiang could actually be a digital piano - it is so "un"-complex.

Is there anyone here who is familiar with the Bluthner sound who can comment on whether they think this sounds at all like a Bluthner to them?

Again, I could be way off the mark here.

Jeanne W

To listen to Selection #5 by Mia Jiang, click on the link below. It will take you to Amazon.com Then scroll down the page to click on #5

(Make sure you're listening to Disc #1)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...3288741-0268925

Anybody up for guessing what kind of piano is on track #9? If you click on the soundclip above you will also be able to hear track #9 Orcas by Michael Gettel. Gettel is playing "that piano" - the one that has a very distinctive echo like quality - I'd love to know *what-piano-it-is*.

I've heard this same sounding piano from several different sources now. Either it's the sound of the piano, or a some recording technique that lends a reverb/echo quality. At @ 24 seconds into the soundclip, you'll hear what I'm referring to. A quick run up in the treble with a distinct echo. That wows me. Any guesses what kind of piano this is?

(Listen to Track #9 Orcas at 24 seconds)

Jeanne W
Posted by: curry

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/21/04 06:36 PM

Jeanne, #5 is not a Bluthner, sounds like a Yamaha. #9 is definitely a Baldwin SD-10.
Posted by: Alex Hernandez

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/21/04 11:18 PM

To hear a Blüthner model 1 go to the Classical Grands website.
The opening flash movie is a model 1. You can also hear a more extended example of that piano on our instruments page.

I hate to spam like this but it seems that Jeanne W. really wants to hear a Blüthner.
Posted by: Peter S. Sheeser

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/23/04 05:08 PM

Thanks for the link Steve. Mr. Wild is truly amazing. I recently had the priviledge of providing for him a Shigeru SK EX from my showroom floor for recording purposes here(NYC). A magical combination of musician and instrument. I know we are not exactly neighbors, but if you ever come my way, stop in and say "hi" and try this piano.

Best
Peter
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/25/04 06:41 AM

Thanks, Alex, for providing the info re: the Bluthner soundclip.

It's funny. Neither my husband nor I would guess the Classical Grands soundclip of the Bluthner is a Bluthner. We don't think it sounds like the Bluthners I played.

That could be due to faulty memory on our part, or the recording (which does seem to me to have a lot of "reverb-echo" quality in it) or because the Bluthners I played really did sound a bit different than the Bluthner in the soundclip.

Interesting.

The Bluthner in the soundclip is glorious.

Jeanne W
Posted by: Alex Hernandez

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/25/04 02:04 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
Thanks, Alex, for providing the info re: the Bluthner soundclip.

It's funny. Neither my husband nor I would guess the Classical Grands soundclip of the Bluthner is a Bluthner. We don't think it sounds like the Bluthners I played.

That could be due to faulty memory on our part, or the recording (which does seem to me to have a lot of "reverb-echo" quality in it) or because the Bluthners I played really did sound a bit different than the Bluthner in the soundclip.

Interesting.

The Bluthner in the soundclip is glorious.

Jeanne W [/b]
Jeanne W,

That is a Blüthner model 1 grand piano.
The reverb is all natural with no electronic enhancement. It was recorded at Seattle's Townhall in September, 2002.

I have the entire recording and it is glorious!

Blüthner's are very idiocencratic instruments.
If they are serviced to aggresively you won't hear it's true voice.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/25/04 03:59 PM

The Bluthners I heard at Alex's "Cassical grands" were absolutely superb!

Actually the best I had ever[/b] heard!

No wonder, you couldn't recognize the sound, Jeanne W....... \:D

norbert
Posted by: 88Key_PianoPlayer

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/25/04 04:08 PM

Where can I hear a Bosendorfer 290 with moderately hard hammers (also one with extremely hard hammers, one with medium hammers, one with moderately soft hammers, and one with extremely soft hammers)?
Posted by: curry

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/25/04 04:15 PM

88, you're having AS delusions again. They use a medium hard pressed Renner Wurzen AA felt hammer. They don't sound at all good with rock hard hammers or too soft hammers. So unless you get one and overdose it with lacquer or another hardening solution, or needle hammers to death, you're not going to find one.
Posted by: Keith D Kerman

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/25/04 10:13 PM

Alex,

That Bluthner concert grand does sound nice. Of course, it doesn't hurt having Alexander Paley playing the piano.
I agree with Jeanne, the recording sounds really "wet".

Jeanne, don't think that you have a poor memory. You didn't play any concert grand Bluthners at my shop. And I am sure that if you heard one of the Bluthners you tried recorded in the same hall, with the same mic set up, the same pianist, and the same repertoire, you would certainly recognize their similar character.

Alex,
what do you mean by servicing a Bluthner too aggressively? Are you speaking to voicing, or something else?
It may be a matter of semantics, but I feel that in order to find a Bluthner's best voice, the tech cannot be timid. Well, whatever approach you used for the recording on your website ( and what a gorgeous website it is ) seems to work quite well. Of course, the best part of your approach was having the great Alexander Paley being the pianist on the recording!
Posted by: Alex Hernandez

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/25/04 10:40 PM

Keith,

I have followed several technicians who have not taken the time to properly assess the Bluthner hammer. They will over needle and end up with a woody or punky sound. The pianos will sound muted and shallow if this is done.

That particular model 1 sounded like a brass marching band walking over broken glass when I first met it. It was a fine piano but nothing close to what you heard on our site.

I believe Alexander Paley to be among the greatest pianist living today. The fact that he is not a household name in the United States is a crime in my opinion.

I have heard Paley in other live recordings in better halls with better mic's and the advantage of professional recording engineers. I still think that our recording best captures the sound of the Blüthner piano.

I think our Blüthners were better then any other I have heard in any shop or recording. I will admit that since I prepared that piano and all of the Blüthners we carried perhaps my ego is speaking here.

That piano even sounded good with me playing it. \:\)
Posted by: Keith D Kerman

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/25/04 11:21 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Alex Hernández:
Keith,

I have followed several technicians who have not taken the time to properly assess the Bluthner hammer. They will over needle and end up with a woody or punky sound. The pianos will sound muted and shallow if this is done. [/b]
Don't you find that most pianos sound woody or punky ( one of my favorite terms ) or mute and shallow when the hammers are not properly assessed and then over needled? Or do you find this mistaken approach more likely to be taken on a Bluthner?

 Quote:
That particular model 1 sounded like a brass marching band walking over broken glass when I first met it. It was a fine piano but nothing close to what you heard on our site. [/QB]
I hope everyone pays attention here. Even a $100,000+ tier 1 concert grand doesn't sound that great until really worked over with the right approach.

 Quote:
I believe Alexander Paley to be among the greatest pianist living today. The fact that he is not a household name in the United States is a crime in my opinion. [/QB]
Agreed that he is one of the greats. Household name might be a bit of a stretch. I think the days of concert pianists being household names are gone. Now, if he could throw a football 70 yards........

 Quote:
I have heard Paley in other live recordings in better halls with better mic's and the advantage of professional recording engineers. I still think that our recording best captures the sound of the Blüthner piano. [/QB]
Your piano sounds much better than Paley's piano recorded on the Bluthner label. I would love for you to burn me a copy. I think you may owe me a recording on a Bluthner ;\)

 Quote:
I think our Blüthners were better then any other I have heard in any shop or recording. I will admit that since I prepared that piano and all of the Blüthners we carried perhaps my ego is speaking here. [/QB]
I am sure anyone unable to make it out to Gaithersburg would have been very fortunate to own one of your Bluthners. :p Even Norbert was impressed by them. \:D

 Quote:
That piano even sounded good with me playing it. \:\) [/QB]
I heard you playing Jazz at the Mason & Hamlin factory. You sounded really good!
Posted by: Alex Hernandez

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/25/04 11:37 PM

Keith,

Voicing as you know is a very personal thing. I do think many technicians hear two basic tones, mellow and bright.

I also think that most pianos in the field can't offer the same detail or definition of tone as a Blüthner.

A great piano allows this to exist. It happens when the voicer addresses the tonal development beyond the attack. The initial burst of sound is only the beggining. If a technician doesn't take a sensitive, measured approach then that opportunity is lost.

I do owe you a recording as a matter of fact.

I can't wait to try one of your Blüthners, many people I have spoken to have raved about them.
Posted by: Keith D Kerman

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/25/04 11:41 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Alex Hernández:

many people I have spoken to have raved [/b]
Agreed.
Posted by: 88Key_PianoPlayer

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/26/04 12:11 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by curry:
88, you're having AS delusions again. They use a medium hard pressed Renner Wurzen AA felt hammer. They don't sound at all good with rock hard hammers or too soft hammers. So unless you get one and overdose it with lacquer or another hardening solution, or needle hammers to death, you're not going to find one. [/b]
What kind of hammers would the Bosie need to sound like this piano ? (or the midrange and treble of this piano (although the last link is a Baldwin Hamilton - the first 3 are an unidentified 9-foot grand) I especially like the abundance of the higher harmonics on that 9-foot grand on its FF passages.
Posted by: Sir Lurksalot

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/26/04 01:06 PM

This record was recorded in the artist's living room on a Bluthner grand. Tracks 1 and 3 have samples:

http://khoroshev.com/pianoworks.html

According to the artist, it was recorded "direct to ADAT" (whatever that means).
Posted by: curry

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/26/04 01:43 PM

88, any other hammers other than the type, weight, and quality that bosendorfer uses in production would not produce the sound quality associated with the Bosendorfer sound. So why bother.
Posted by: 88Key_PianoPlayer

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/26/04 01:54 PM

The main reason I want the Bosendorfer is the extra keys in the bass. If it wasn't for that, quite a few other pianos would probably be just fine, like Fazioli, Schimmel, Seiler, Steinway, Kawai, Yamaha, etc... I'm looking for something on which I can play this piece . I keep running out of keys on my upright .
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/26/04 05:57 PM

Wow! Sir Lurks A lot - thanks so much for the soundclip!

The Bluthner in the soundclip you provided - now THAT's more like it! That sounds much more like the Bluthners I played.

Even more interesting - earlier in this thread, I had posted a link to a CD that contains solo piano works. I specifically noted that one particular track - Track #5 on Disc 1 - a piece by Mia Jiang - reminded me very much of the sound of the Bluthners I had played. And was hoping that someone might comment whether they thought the piano Jiang is playing sounded like a Bluthner, but no one did.

I do hear a distinct similarity between the piano (unidentified) that Mia Jiang is playing on Track #5 and the sound of the Bluthner on your soundclip, Sir Lurks Alot. To me the similarity is very striking.

Anybody up to make the comparison? Here are links to compare the sound of the two pianos:

Link #1: To Bluthner soundclip Sir Lurks A lot provided.
To listen, click on #3 Barlego Sample #2
http://khoroshev.com/pianoworks.html

Link #2: To unidentified piano soundclip.
To listen, click on Track #5 by Mia Jiang on Disc 1. (Make sure you're on Disc #1)

There is also a track by Ms. Jiang on Disc #2: Listen to Track #6 on Disc 2.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B...3288741-0268925

Does anyone else here think these two pianos sound similar? That the piano Jiang is playing might also be a Bluthner?

Comments, anyone?

Jeanne W

Course it's a little difficult, because we're listening to 2 different pieces of music and the soundclip Sir Lurksalot provided is being playing with much more bravado and is all over the keyboard, but try to isolate the basic tonal quality. That's what I find similar. Very *uncomplex* - very fundamental tonal quality. Both have a very distinctive, unusual in my experience, tonal quality.

There's so little color in the piano Ms. Jiang is playing. Geez. Maybe it really is a digital?? Hard to tell since the piece she's playing hardly changes in loudness.
Posted by: Grotriman

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/26/04 07:47 PM

So many pianos to own. So little money. So little space.
Posted by: Keith D Kerman

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/26/04 10:24 PM

Jeanne,

I would be shocked to find out that the Mia Jiang recordings are Bluthners. They don't sound like any Bluthner I have ever heard. If they are on a Bluthner, it has been compressed and electronically altered to the point that is is unrecognizable as a Bluthner. They also sound very different from Sir Lurksalot's link.
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/27/04 03:48 AM

Disclaimer to All: I could be way off here in thinking the piano Ms. Jiang is playing might be a Bluthner.

To me the piano, Ms. Jiang plays on Disc #2 has much more color and sounds as though it could be different than the piano she plays on the soundclip on Disc #1.

But then, I could say the same of the Bluthners heard on the same CD in Sir Lurks Alot's soundclips. The first soundclip, I'd almost guess was a diffeent piano than the piano (same Bluthner, no doubt)that is heard on the Bartok Sample #2. A lot depends on how a piano is being played and the kind of music.

I do think that if you listen in a particular way to Sir Lirks Alots soundclips of the Bluthner, that Bluthner has a quality to it that is reminiscent of the tonal quality one hears on many digital pianos.

Sir Lurks Alot's Bluthner soundclips sound much richer and much more color certainly than the first soundclip on Disc #1 by Ms. Jiang. I really could be way off thinking whatever Ms. Jiang is playing is a Bluthner, or for that matter, even acoustic. ???

But I still do hear a striking similarity between that first soundclip on Disc #1 by Ms. Jiang and Soundclip Sample #1 on the Bartok sample that is being played on a Bluthner.

If only I could find out what piano Ms. Jiang is in fact playing. (I could have pie in my face, but I'd still like to know.)

Jeanne W
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 10/27/04 04:23 AM

Here is a soundclip to Ms. Jiangs' Water Circles CD which is where the 2 tracks on the sound samples I provided are taken from.

I have to agree with Keith. Listening to those sound samples, the limited tonal color, the limited strength of the bass, limited range of dynamics overall, it does sound to me as though Ms. Jang is playing a digital piano, not acoustic. Not a Bluthner. (Surely no one would "compress" a great sounding piano to the extent that it sounds as though it's got virtually no range of dynamics. \:\( )

But I still hear a similarity in the tonal quality. I'm not saying they sound "the same", the Bluthner clips are much more rich, dynamic, etc., what I'm trying to say is whatever piano Ms. Jang is playing sounds "similar" to the distinctive tonal quality I heard in the Bluthners I played.


http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Water%20Circ...w,x:1,test:DFLT

Jeanne W
Posted by: Sarah Jennings

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 11/06/04 07:03 PM

Just ran across some footage of a Bechstein in concert. A very gifted pianist and a wonderful piano...

The first two clips are definitely a Bechstein. The second one gets to the piano part immediately. Not sure what piano is used in the others:
http://www.serg.vangennip.com/www/video.html
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner? - 11/08/04 06:43 PM

Thanks, Sarah, for posting the clip!

Jeanne W