"Stay away from Grotrian"??

Posted by: PIANOLatte

"Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 06:01 PM

I just got off the phone with a very personable and seemingly knowlegeable owner of a Blüthner store. One of the comments to me was "Stay away from Grotrian, it's a second rate piano."

I'm looking at a Grotrian 223 and a Steinway C. I am very impressed with the Grotrian. Is there any reason in fact for this comment, or is it just sales puffery?

Many thanks.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 06:10 PM

It's total nonsense.

The top German makers have always been Steinway,Bluethner, Grotrian and Bechstein.

200 years of international fame and mutual respect obviously came now to a sudden halt somewhere in America.............

Norbert \:o
Posted by: kenny

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 06:19 PM

Perhaps she doesn't sell them.

Personally, I love Grotrians.
Posted by: PIANOLatte

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 06:45 PM

Thank you Norbert. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Kenny, I'm with you. I love them too.
Posted by: PIANOLatte

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 06:46 PM

Thank you Norbert. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Kenny, I'm with you. I love them too.
Posted by: TammyF

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 06:47 PM

The Grotrian I played in Norbert's store was absolutely beautiful. I would buy it over a Steinway any day (at least the ones that I've played). It definitely is a Tier 1 piano and is right up there with the other Tier 1 pianos. If you haven't played one yet, I would find one and give it a try.
Tammy
I bought an Estonia 168, but if I had more money, I would have got the Grotrian no problem. I love my Estonia, but that Grotrian was pretty nice!
Posted by: PIANOLatte

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 06:51 PM

TammyF,
I agree. In fact I prefer the Grotrian 223 to many other pianos I've played.
Posted by: AJB

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 06:56 PM

I played Fazioli, Steinway, Grotrian and Yamaha today in Jecklins of Zurich. Your dealer is talking nonsense about Grotrians. Distinctive tone, excellent pianos undeniably.

Dealers who do this bring disrepect onto themselves. Reputable dealers do not spout such nonsense.

A

PS : the 9ft Fazioli yet again impressed me with its roaring bass...
Posted by: jon-nyc

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 07:00 PM

I love Grotrians.

If I bought a secnd piano, it would be either a Steinway or a Grotrian.
Posted by: PIANOLatte

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 07:03 PM

AJB,
I concur. I would have been far more impressed if the dealer would have made a statement such as: "Of course, Grotrians are one of the finest pianos in the world. So are my Blüthners. Let me show you why our clients prefer Blüthner."

PS: Did you play Hamburg or NY Steinway? How did it compare to the Grotrian and Fazioli?
Posted by: Norbert

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 07:17 PM

Just have anybody here travel through the various factories and showrooms in Germany and Europe, and all you see is quiet, understated *class*.

Real - and highly diversified - *class*.

Been to the big showrooms in London, Berlin, Paris, Rome or Moscow?

Norbert
Posted by: Alex Hernandez

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 07:24 PM

RStier,

I'm sorry you had a regrettable experience with this Blüthner store owner. I personally find Grotians to be lovely pianos with a beautiful tone.
Posted by: PIANOLatte

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 07:28 PM

Norbert, I appreciate that perspective.

I've had two dealers speak against Grotrian today (the other sells Bechstein). Quite frankly, I would welcome some additional *class* and professionalism. Negative comments about a highly respected competing brand say far more about the dealer than the competition they are deriding. How about a little european elegance to compliment the instruments they represent!
Posted by: ryantim

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 07:34 PM

Adrian said it best:
"Dealers who do this bring disrepect onto themselves. Reputable dealers do not spout such nonsense."


"Stay away from that dealer" is the watchword from my point of view, rather than stay away from Grotrian. Grotrians are fine pianos. Never trust a guy who doesn't respect the competition.

Tim
Posted by: PIANOLatte

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 07:43 PM

Alex,
Very nice website!
Posted by: mikhailoh

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 09:16 PM

I think you want to stay away from dealers who speak this way about ANY piano not in their they do not offer. And maybe even if they do offer it.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 09:22 PM

Here's another take on this:

The store owner IMHO owes you a wonderful deal now on one of his own Bluethner pianos - everybody knows they are fantastic instruments!

Tell him, Norbert HIGHLY recommends them,but is threatening to send a Grotrian your way...[of course I'm *not*.. ;\) ]

Now let's have another look at what that dealer happens to have on his own floor right now....

Norbert \:D
Posted by: Piano*Dad

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 10:48 PM

I own a Grotrian 192. It's a wonderful beast. One of the only pianos that could have tempted me away was a silky Bluthner I played in NY.

When any dealer badmouths the competition the red flags start to fly up. I can think of no clearer signal of dealer insecurity than this.
Posted by: Axtremus

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/14/06 10:56 PM

Who are these owners of Blüsthner and Bechstein stores?
There can't be that many of them in Southern California, right?
Posted by: pianistical

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/15/06 01:51 AM

I had the pleasure to talk to Bengt Forsberg, one of Swedens leading pianists and the accompanist of Ann-Sophie von Otter. He has had the opportunity to play many of the old tier 1 pianos that still are used for recitals at institutions, churches and small recital halls, and he spoke in glowing and lyrical terms about Grotrian-Steinwegs. They were his favorite pianos.

Norbert is right. The top four German brands, in order of recognition in Europe, is Steinway, Bechstein, Blüthner and Grotrian. But really, I think people more often speak about the top 3 brands.

I have never understood why Steingraeber is a realitvely obscure brand in Europe. They are one of my personal favorites and IMO at the same level as the above mentioned brands.

I have only played one old Grotrian-steinweg which was very nice. That particular one had a personal, dark, brooding and woody tone with a great sustain. I could imagine that Brahms would sound great on them.
Posted by: AJB

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/15/06 02:45 AM

RStier

To answer your question: the Steinways were Hamburgs. They had three B's and I pkayed them all. Very consistent. I played these in comparison with Fazioli 228 (slighty unfair). They had three of those as well. I also played the smaller and larger Faziolis but not the smaller Steinways. There was no D.

I also tried again the Yamaha S6. For me, the Grotrian 192 beats this instrument in volume, tone and playability, Amazing grand for its size.


They also have a Steingraeber 205, but the have plonked it in the entrance near their ticjet sales area, so it is not easy to play it without causing disturbance. I am very familiar with them. I also happen to believe that Steingreaber is coming up in the world in Europe. You see more of them around and dealers are saying very positive things about them.

I am seeking out a concert Grotrian (which I think is called the Royale) because I "need" to play one now. If it builds on the excellent 192, then we shall see...

(Oddly enough, in my book the bigger pianos can go either way. I prefer Steinway D to B, but I prefer the Steingreaber 205 to its bigger brother, except in Phoenix form).

As a matter of interest, this dealer seems to be doing well with Fazioli. For example I am aware of a 9ft grand in a local conservatory - "gasp" they have not bought a Steinway D "gasp again". (The Swiss are conservative usually and the professionals are quite Steinway loyal). And they are very pleased with it. I have played two 228's in private houses as well.
They are cheaper here than in the UK.

Anyway RStier, give that grotrian a chance. My first experience with them was not that positive. But then Jecklins had this really lovely 192 that demonstrated what a well prepped one can do. So I have revised my opinion and am keen to try a big one again. (I don't think I tried a Royale last time).

A
Posted by: jon-nyc

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/15/06 08:00 AM

FWIW when I was piano shopping in NYC, the only dealer who bad-mouthed another brand was the local Grotrian dealer. He had bad things to say about Bosendorfer, Fazzioli, August Forster, and probably others that I don't remember.

It wouldn't have stopped me from buying from him, but I found it to be a bit of a turnoff.
Posted by: AJB

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/15/06 09:08 AM

Fine

Just because some dealers behave disreputably though, should have no bearing on our assessment of the pianos of particular manufacturers, as long as we can place our business through some other dealer.

Kind regards

Adrian
Posted by: jollyroger

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/15/06 10:27 AM

Grotrians are one of the nicest pianos I've ever played. Don't buy this sales claptrap for a second.
Regards,
Roger
Posted by: Piano*Dad

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/15/06 11:33 AM

Jon,

I wonder who that was? \:D

David
Posted by: PIANOLatte

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/15/06 01:40 PM

re: Who are these owners of Blüsthner and Bechstein stores?
There can't be that many of them in Southern California, right?

--------------------
Axtremus, Blüthner store is Kasimoff in Los Angeles. Bechstein in southern California is Piano Exchange in San Diego.

Norbert, I love your approach!

AJB, thanks for the update on your comparisons. It will be intersting to see what you think of the Grotrian Royale.
Posted by: Jeanne W

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/15/06 07:43 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RStier:
[QB] ..."Stay away from Grotrian, it's a second rate piano..."

Grotrian, a SECOND RATE PIANO?????????????????????

Too bad there's no sound with PW posts...

Anyone reading this would hear a lot of hysterical laughter - I am sitting here HOWLING. \:D

I played Grotrians at three piano dealers. Grotrians, in my opinion, are among The Best Of The Best. So of that dealer's comment, all I can say is...

THAT IS TOOOOOO FUNNY. Absolutely HILARIOUS.

Jeanne W
Posted by: Sir Lurksalot

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/15/06 09:08 PM

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. Sounds like a second-rate dealer to me.
Posted by: GrotrianSchimmelYamaha

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/15/06 10:14 PM

Man I want this guy's phone number so I can talk to him.
Posted by: kenny

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/15/06 10:27 PM

I bet many dealers hate this forum.

Whatever they say can be repeated to the whole world.
Posted by: Axtremus

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/16/06 01:23 AM

 Quote:
Info from RStier:

Blüthner store is Kasimoff in Los Angeles. Bechstein in southern California is Piano Exchange in San Diego.
 Quote:
GrotrianSchimmelYamaha wrote:

Man I want this guy's phone number so I can talk to him.
Here:
  • Bluthner Pianos-Kasimoff Bluthner Piano Co - 337 N Larchmont Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90004 - (323) 466-7707
  • Piano Exchange - 3.5 miles N - 1233 Camino Del Rio S, San Diego, 92108 - (619) 298-5313

First hits on Google.

Post transcripts of your phone conversations. May be there is another side of the story that we haven't heard or considered, so you may be doing a public service if you do call and post transcripts.

Good luck.
Posted by: btb

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/16/06 04:48 AM

It took some chasing up to discover the pedigree of my Grotrian Steinweg piano ... wouldn’t want to swap it for the same in gold. (from "Pianos and their Makers" by Alfred Dolge)

The German immigrant Heinrich Engelhardt Steinweg arrived in New York with sons Charles and Henry in 1851 ... his eldest son Theodore remaining in Germany to manage the Steinweg piano manufacturing business.

Steinweg changed his name to Henry E. Steinway to pioneer a “grand piano” empire under the name of Steinway and Sons.

After winning a prize medal in Washington for his square piano in 1854 and adding another triumph at the NY great fair of the American Institute in 1855 for his overstrung square piano with full iron frame Steinway erected a large piano factory on Fifty-third Street and Fourth Avenue New York in 1859 ... to be joined in 1865 by his son Theodore ... who sold his German piano manufacturing business to three of his working-men, Grotrian, Helfferich and Schultz. “This firm ranks today among the foremost of Germany under the able management of Wilhelm Grotrian and his sons.”
Posted by: jon-nyc

Re: "Stay away from Grotrian"?? - 10/16/06 05:43 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
Jon,

I wonder who that was? \:D

David [/b]
Ha - there's something very likeable about him, though, in an old curmudgeonly sorta way.