E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question

Posted by: dir_marillion

E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/16/11 10:12 AM

Hello,
I recently purchased an Upright Piano (E. Krauss Stuttgart) the one with the "London, Wien, Ulm..." stamps, engraved with flowers.

I was told that according its serial number its more likely that it is about 120 years old, but I would like to confirm this from an updated "Piano Dates" database.

I have searched many sites, found in Google, but with no success.

I also have to mention that this is not a "BirdCage" piano as mentioned in another thread/forum.
According the Piano categories referred in:
http://www.balaams-ass.com/piano/diagrams.htm,
it seems that it belongs to:

Upright Action (Not Console)












Posted by: Cy Shuster, RPT

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/16/11 11:57 AM

Please post the serial number, and I can look it up for you. It's usually in the triangular area in the top, between the bass and treble tuning pins.

E. Krauss made pianos from 1870 to 1930.

--Cy--
Posted by: dir_marillion

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/16/11 12:55 PM

Its serial number is 16028, thanks a lot for your fast response!
Posted by: BerndAB

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/16/11 01:14 PM

From the Witter Bible (Jens-Uwe Witter, Das Klavierlexikon):

Emil Krauss Stuttgart

15.700 - 1905,
19.200 - 1910

Interpolation delivers for #16.028: built ca. 1905/1906.
Posted by: dir_marillion

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/16/11 02:32 PM

Hi BerndAB,
is the first name EMIL or ERNST ?
Posted by: BerndAB

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/16/11 02:38 PM

hi dir_marillon,

in the Witter book it is Emil. There is no Ernst written.

It is a little bit disturbing: a Krauss (with double s or with german "sharp" s "ß") cannot be found in the Witter book. And the only Kraus or Krauss in Stuttgart is this Emil Kraus one, written with one s.
Posted by: dir_marillion

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/17/11 06:28 AM

Ah, I understood. Thank you very much BerndAB.
It is strange how many alternative names they had...
Posted by: BDB

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/17/11 11:12 AM

It is listed as Ernst Krauss in the Pierce Piano Atlas. However, there is another Ernst Krauss listed as being in Berlin, so that might be a typo.

In the end, what difference does it make? It is an old upright.
Posted by: Cornelius

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/17/11 12:24 PM

Hello
I found this information:
(http://www.pianoshop.co.uk/info/pianos/k/krauss.php)
E. KRAUSS Stuttgart / Germany
Production began in 1870
Taken over by Carl Sauter (Spaichingen) in 1958

If you need more information maybe the guys from Sauter may help. (http://www.sauter-pianos.de/)

Good luck and greetings from Stuttgart
Posted by: dir_marillion

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/18/11 08:15 AM

Originally Posted By: BDB
It is listed as Ernst Krauss in the Pierce Piano Atlas. However, there is another Ernst Krauss listed as being in Berlin, so that might be a typo.

In the end, what difference does it make? It is an old upright.


Thank you for your comment but I opened this thread in order to find some more information and manufacture year about this Piano. I have mentioned it is lovely and beautiful as the most (if not all) of the old uprights are.

Cornelius, it seems like the piano site you refer is a Piano shop, which currently does not have any Pianos like that available for sale.

As Witter Bible refers only the existence of Emil Krauss Stuttgart company, this must be what I am searching for unless its database is not 100% complete and in this rare case I assume it deserves to find out more information for this 1xx years old Piano.
Posted by: Supply

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/18/11 12:55 PM

Bible?? None of the piano atlases around can be considered gospel - they all have many omissions and inaccuracies. The Pierce is especially unreliable, in my experience. The best and definitive atlas for German pianos today is by Jan Grossbach. It lists the same information that Bernd has provided.
Posted by: BDB

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/18/11 01:16 PM

Not only that, nobody has the real information on these pianos, like whether the parts were shopped out or made in-house. The case that you admire so much may be a combination of design details from various shops that were put together to make this piano.

Just the other day, I was tuning an old upright that should have been junked years ago, and noticing that the name of the manufacturer cast into the plate was not actually cast into the entire plate, but just a useless piece of metal bolted over the real plate. But then, you see other pianos with a standard plate in them where they just changed the letters on the pattern. Occasionally you see one where they forgot to change the letters, and a plate marked for one company shows up in a piano labeled by a non-related company.

About the only information that can have a bearing on a piano these days is the age, and that can be divided into just a few relevant eras: ancient history, modern (post 1880) to WWI, WWI to WWII, WWII to the coming of the Japanese pianos (roughly 1965), the demise of the US piano industry, and the coming of the rest of the Asians. The exact year does not matter as much as which of those eras it is in. Within each of those eras, the condition and quality of the piano matters more than the exact age.
Posted by: dir_marillion

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/19/11 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: BDB
About the only information that can have a bearing on a piano these days is the age, and that can be divided into just a few relevant eras: ancient history, modern (post 1880) to WWI, WWI to WWII, WWII to the coming of the Japanese pianos (roughly 1965), the demise of the US piano industry, and the coming of the rest of the Asians. The exact year does not matter as much as which of those eras it is in. Within each of those eras, the condition and quality of the piano matters more than the exact age.


Is it possible to search any particular places, inside or behind the Piano, which may provide more info about it, other than the type of the mechanism ?
Posted by: Norbert

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/19/11 08:33 PM

Wow, this looks exactly like the "Krauss" piano I learned on as young child in Germany.

Quote:
It is listed as Ernst Krauss in the Pierce Piano Atlas. However, there is another Ernst Krauss listed as being in Berlin, so that might be a typo.


Not really , my piano *was* made in Berlin - I specifically remember the bullet holes....

Norbert wink
Posted by: dir_marillion

Re: E. Krauss Stuttgart Serial Number Question - 11/26/11 12:16 PM

Norbert :-) That's nice !!

BDB posted earlier that Ernst Krauss pianos made in Berlin!!