Another one bites the dust

Posted by: Radio.Octave

Another one bites the dust - 01/17/13 05:10 PM

Just got an email about this if anyone in the Cleveland area is interested. I think they're the only Steinway dealer around here that I know of.

Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/17/13 06:45 PM

I find it very annoying that many of the posts about dealer closings seem to almost delight in the announcement. Very insensitive. Dealer closings should not be a happy event for anyone really interested pianos. If you must inform the rest of the world about things like this(to what purpose?)at least do it with some class.
Posted by: jawhitti

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/17/13 07:07 PM

I dunno - depends on the dealer I guess. Some dealers are real shysters and I know my local Steinway dealer can be a bit...arrogant. I don't know anything about the dealer in question though and the lack of dealers around me was certainly annoying when I was shopping.
Posted by: Rickster

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/17/13 07:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Pianoloverus
I find it very annoying that many of the posts about dealer closings seem to almost delight in the announcement. Very insensitive. Dealer closings should not be a happy event for anyone really interested pianos. If you must inform the rest of the world about things like this(to what purpose?)at least do it with some class.

Pianoloverus, what is so insensitive here... the title of the thread? It is an announcement about a piano dealer closing.

I agree that the title is a little blunt, but not outrageous.

I hate to see piano dealers close too, but I think you were a little harsh on the OP here.

Rick
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/17/13 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: Pianoloverus
I find it very annoying that many of the posts about dealer closings seem to almost delight in the announcement. Very insensitive. Dealer closings should not be a happy event for anyone really interested pianos. If you must inform the rest of the world about things like this(to what purpose?)at least do it with some class.

Pianoloverus, what is so insensitive here... the title of the thread? It is an announcement about a piano dealer closing.

I agree that the title is a little blunt, but not outrageous.

I hate to see piano dealers close too, but I think you were a little harsh on the OP here.

Rick
Of course I was referring to the title. I think the title is way more than a little blunt and it's both nasty and incredibly insensitive.

Imagine it was your business or a friend's business that closed. Would you want it announced to the world that you "bit the dust"?

It's also typical of how some posters seem to delight when a Steinway dealership closes.
Posted by: accordeur

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/17/13 08:00 PM

If it was my business, and somebody posted my ad saying I was closing for good, I would be grateful. That is the point of the ad.

It's news. One more dealer closing.

I actually think the OP's thread title is well said.

Dealer's have been biting the dust. It's sad, but it is what it is.
Posted by: Nash. Piano Rescue

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/17/13 10:25 PM

How do you know they are going out of business? There is an obvious ad but there are plenty of piano dealers that have many going out of business sales , move their inventory to a tent and then they are still there or just open in the same spot or up the road with another name?

Maybe the floor space contracts were not fulfilled and they are changing brands too. Some states make it illegal to have a sale like that and still be in business but when I see those ads it just tells me that its a pre-inventory clean out due to the time of year.

Go to that location in six months and see if there is a Chicken restaurant there, if so they are gone or moved. If not well I rest my case.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/17/13 10:41 PM

Doesn't Mattlin-Hyde have a number of locations? Is it just the Lyndhurst store which is closing?
Posted by: Morodiene

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 12:08 AM

Is it just me, or is anyone else bothered by the uneven letters in the ad? Looks like a ransom note.
Posted by: KurtZ

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 01:49 AM

Isn't Beckstein supposed to be Bechstein?
Posted by: musicpassion

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 02:04 AM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Of course I was referring to the title. I think the title is way more than a little blunt and it's both nasty and incredibly insensitive.


Isn't the title a quote from a 1980s rock song?

I think a lot of people would describe the 1980s as nasty and incredibly insensitive.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 06:28 AM

Originally Posted By: accordeur
If it was my business, and somebody posted my ad saying I was closing for good, I would be grateful. That is the point of the ad.

It's news. One more dealer closing.

I actually think the OP's thread title is well said.

Dealer's have been biting the dust. It's sad, but it is what it is.
I think you missed the point by a mile. It was the language the OP used to say the dealership was closing. It was the title of the thread that was inappropriately insensitive by a mile.
Posted by: Morodiene

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 08:23 AM

Businesses fail all the time. Some have a good sense of humor or perspective and some don't. It's not like someone died though and they said this (presumably).
Posted by: Plowboy

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 08:30 AM

Sometimes they really mean they are going out of business. Piano City had a big going out of business sign in their window. When I finally decided to take their offer of a new Charles Walter studio for $6000, I grabbed my checkbook and drove down to their store and...


They were out of business!!!
Posted by: jawhitti

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 08:41 AM

I madeca comment last week about driving a hard bargain in a tough economy and was criticized for being insensitive to dealers. Now apparently this posting ruffled feathers for being insensitive to dealers.

Many people find this site via Google, which indexes all of these threads forever, including the flame wars. Threads like this one in the search results make pianoworld seem insular and hostile.


Even I noticed that this site is pretty prone to flame wars just from threads I would dig up on Google. That does not make it easy for new people to join. No one wants the wrath of a 10,000 post super user to come down on them because they offended them.

People are going to say things that offend your sensibilities in any open forum. PM them if your feelings are hurt or just let it go?

EDIT: and yes by posting this openly instead of sending PMs I guess I am part of the problem.
Posted by: rocket88

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 09:12 AM

The ad does not say they are going out of business. It says "Closing Forever".

So they can close the current store, and carry on elsewhere. The wording avoids running afoul of any laws about them saying they are going out of business, but not actually going out of business.

With that vague wording, they could have a closet door somewhere in the building that has "Forever" stenciled on it, and they are going to shut that door. laugh
Posted by: Jeff Clef

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 09:17 AM

"...No one wants the wrath of a 10,000 post super user to come down on them because they offended them..."

You get used to it--- in fact, PW has a very handy "Ignore" feature. Does wonders for the blood pressure.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 09:55 AM

Originally Posted By: jawhitti
I madeca comment last week about driving a hard bargain in a tough economy and was criticized for being insensitive to dealers. Now apparently this posting ruffled feathers for being insensitive to dealers.

Many people find this site via Google, which indexes all of these threads forever, including the flame wars. Threads like this one in the search results make pianoworld seem insular and hostile.


Even I noticed that this site is pretty prone to flame wars just from threads I would dig up on Google. That does not make it easy for new people to join. No one wants the wrath of a 10,000 post super user to come down on them because they offended them.

People are going to say things that offend your sensibilities in any open forum. PM them if your feelings are hurt or just let it go?

EDIT: and yes by posting this openly instead of sending PMs I guess I am part of the problem.
Or maybe the first post was just insensitive and inappropriate.

I think a comment about driving a hard bargain in a tough economy, depending on how it is phrased, could also be insensitive to dealers.
Posted by: Bob Newbie

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 10:24 AM

It is a sad fact of the current economy, a few years ago many furniture stores were closing, and when the economy recovers
you will see furniture stores come back...
sadly pianos are not for the masses, only selective clients
so the stores won't be coming back, but the ones that remain will absorb all the sales..
Posted by: Plowboy

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/18/13 10:30 AM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

I think a comment about driving a hard bargain in a tough economy, depending on how it is phrased, could also be insensitive to dealers.


The negotiable price is the system set up by the dealers themselves. They made the bed, now they have to sleep in it.

I've yet to read a post from a dealer bemoaning the fact that some poor schmuck came into his shop and paid full MSRP.
Posted by: lara77

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/19/13 02:28 PM

Lighten up, Pianoloverus..many people in the area may want to check this out
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/19/13 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By: lara77
Lighten up, Pianoloverus..many people in the area may want to check this out
You're completely missing my point. This was not just a question of someone posting about a dealer closing.

If you or someone like owned a store that was closing would you want it posted that you were "biting the dust"? Or would you prefer "Store X is closing and having a closing sale".

Telling someone else to "lighten up" is quite dismissive. The phrase assumes that the someone else has no sense of humor or is making something out of nothing and the person telling someone else to "lighten up" is viewing things correctly.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/19/13 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Plowboy
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

I think a comment about driving a hard bargain in a tough economy, depending on how it is phrased, could also be insensitive to dealers.


The negotiable price is the system set up by the dealers themselves. They made the bed, now they have to sleep in it.

I've yet to read a post from a dealer bemoaning the fact that some poor schmuck came into his shop and paid full MSRP.

I don't think that justifies trying to take extreme advantage of poor economy or a particular dealer's financial problems. Even if one thinks the negotiable pricing system is flawed or bad, two wrongs don't make a right as the saying goes. Since some dealer was unfair with a sale that now justifies a customer to be unfair?

Some posters seem to delight in putting the screws to piano dealers which I find unattractive. I am certainly not some highly pro dealer person but I think a reasonable amount of fairness is the ethical way to proceed.



Posted by: ChopinAddict

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/19/13 04:13 PM

When Allans (the biggest music retailer in Australia) closed down, I remember that the article I read had something like "The Music Is Over for Allans" in the title. I thought it was a sad pun. After all, it was the biggest and oldest music retailer here. But journalists love puns in titles. frown
Posted by: Guapo Gabacho

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/19/13 04:18 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Telling someone else to "lighten up" is quite dismissive. The phrase assumes that the someone else has no sense of humor or is making something out of nothing and the person telling someone else to "lighten up" is viewing things correctly.


Lighten up!
Posted by: Roger Ransom

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/19/13 05:00 PM

pianoloverus, you crack me up.
Posted by: peterws

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/19/13 05:52 PM

"No one wants the wrath of a 10,000 post super user to come down on them because they offended them. . . "

Oh, I dunno. It can be fun, `specially when you know your right! Right?
Posted by: peterws

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/19/13 06:00 PM

"Another one bites the dust" was a much loved and played funeral song (by Queen) when I was at the Crem. I only had to spin the disc, fortunately. It is, or has become, an accepted phrase. One might use it of an old contemporary who has .. .departed this world, in this context it is to me at any rate, rather wistful, ie that things were different. Like ya favourite pub`s closed down (moist eyes evident). (Mine did, but it`s reopened again heh heh)
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/19/13 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By: peterws
"Another one bites the dust" was a much loved and played funeral song (by Queen) when I was at the Crem. I only had to spin the disc, fortunately. It is, or has become, an accepted phrase.
Of course, it's a standard phrase but that doesn't mean it's appropriate here.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/19/13 07:01 PM

It's perfectly appropriate and acceptable here.
Posted by: AJF

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/20/13 02:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Roger Ransom
pianoloverus, you crack me up.


It cracked me up for the first couple of years. Now it's just tiring. It amazes me how arrogant some people are in thinking that just because they have an opinion that they are automatically "right" in their stance. I don't think I've ever seen a poster on this site as vehement as plover in needing to have the last word. Do you think that MAYBE after 5 or 6 people comment that you are out of line or off base that you might have the good sense to take your head out of your a** and say "Gee, maybe your right. Sorry." But no. That's too much to ask from some people.
Good thing these posts are digital--or else there would be a LOT more wasted trees in the world.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/20/13 07:24 AM

Originally Posted By: AJF
Originally Posted By: Roger Ransom
pianoloverus, you crack me up.


It cracked me up for the first couple of years. Now it's just tiring. It amazes me how arrogant some people are in thinking that just because they have an opinion that they are automatically "right" in their stance. I don't think I've ever seen a poster on this site as vehement as plover in needing to have the last word. Do you think that MAYBE after 5 or 6 people comment that you are out of line or off base that you might have the good sense to take your head out of your a** and say "Gee, maybe your right.
Except I clearly expressed my view as an opinion each time unlike some others, mostly those disagreeing, who responded as if their opinion were fact. Those are the posts were the poster sounds like he is assuming he is right. You got it backwards.

Thus far at least one poster seems to have agreed with me about the tone of the original post because they mentioned a similarly worded ad they didn't think was appropriate. And two others at least half agreed(saying the OP was a little blunt or could be interpreted as callous or insensitive). So your comment to the effect that everyone disagreed with me is also wrong. Not that I think the number of posters who agree or disagree determines whether a opinion is true.

I certainly didn't(in this thread and rarely if ever) express my views using obnoxious("Take your head out of you a**")and arrogant language like in the above quoted post. That poster is the one assuming he is right since he did not express his views as opinions. I wouldn't expect someone using that kind of posting language to be sensitive to what's appropriate language to announce a dealer's closing.

If it was your business or a friend's business would you like that title?
Posted by: Roger Ransom

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/20/13 07:38 AM

Ah yes, a good use for the 'ignore' option. Some people just get all worked up into a frenzy over other folks disagreeing with them.
Posted by: fingers

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/20/13 08:47 AM

For me at least, it's often difficult if not impossible, to interperate the true intent of a post. IMO, the original TITLE could be characterized as either insensitive, perhaps somewhat callous, or a clever and witty pun absent any ill-will whatsoever. The OP would know and could clarify if they wish.

fingers
Posted by: jawhitti

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/20/13 08:59 AM

This thread now appears [for me] as the third result from the google search "Cleveland piano dealer closing". Google will probably be sending eyeballs here for years.

Anyway, this dealer appears to have had several locations yet has a truly awful web presence. This makes me think a business doesn't "get it" at all. If they can't be bothered to learn to adapt to the marketplace then it doesn't surprise me that they run into difficulty. Cleveland is not exactly a booming economy right now so there's probably not huge demand for guys in suits selling fine pianos at huge markups. The dealership appears to have been quite old and I'd guess they had become complacent and I'm sorry but Steinway dealers tend to be the most arrogant and dismissive of other makes.

So, Taking the long view, a wave of Steinway dealers closing is probably a good thing as it will force Steinway to confront the fact that other pianos (particularly Chinese pianos) need to be taken seriously. Steinway will need to compete better on price / performance or learn to be content with shrinking market share. The real tell will be if some of the music schools that sign exlusive contracts to be "Steinway schools" start to drop those contracts.

The days of trading solely on the reputation of Steinway are fading. I'm happy to see any dealers relying on that biting the dust as it will lead to better competition and open up opportunities for other manufacturers to expand their own makes.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/20/13 09:29 AM

Originally Posted By: fingers
For me at least, it's often difficult if not impossible, to interperate the true intent of a post. IMO, the original TITLE could be characterized as either insensitive, perhaps somewhat callous, or a clever and witty pun absent any ill-will whatsoever. The OP would know and could clarify if they wish. fingers
It's certainly possible no ill will was meant or that the OP didn't realize that some would find his title callous or insensitive. But, if he did realize this possibility, I think it's far better to choose a better title. I don't see anything that could be called a clever or witty pun in the title.

I am not a Steinway cheerleader although I think their pianos are extremely good, but I think more than a few seem to delight in any Steinway difficulties including store closings. There have been many threads with this tone in the past.
Posted by: Entheo

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/20/13 09:52 AM

well, this thread has been 5 minutes of my life i'll never get back.
Posted by: peterws

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/20/13 11:02 AM

"Ah yes, a good use for the 'ignore' option. Some people just get all worked up into a frenzy over other folks disagreeing with them."

Doesn`t that just mirror life? Now, what was the poster trying to say?? Bit like sport really.

Whatever the sport, when things get fraught fights get fought . . . In this case, Pianos don`t get bought
Posted by: KurtZ

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/20/13 12:06 PM

Originally Posted By: jawhitti
This thread now appears [for me] as the third result from the google search "Cleveland piano dealer closing". Google will probably be sending eyeballs here for years.

Anyway, this dealer appears to have had several locations yet has a truly awful web presence. This makes me think a business doesn't "get it" at all. If they can't be bothered to learn to adapt to the marketplace then it doesn't surprise me that they run into difficulty. Cleveland is not exactly a booming economy right now so there's probably not huge demand for guys in suits selling fine pianos at huge markups. The dealership appears to have been quite old and I'd guess they had become complacent and I'm sorry but Steinway dealers tend to be the most arrogant and dismissive of other makes.

So, Taking the long view, a wave of Steinway dealers closing is probably a good thing as it will force Steinway to confront the fact that other pianos (particularly Chinese pianos) need to be taken seriously. Steinway will need to compete better on price / performance or learn to be content with shrinking market share. The real tell will be if some of the music schools that sign exlusive contracts to be "Steinway schools" start to drop those contracts.

The days of trading solely on the reputation of Steinway are fading. I'm happy to see any dealers relying on that biting the dust as it will lead to better competition and open up opportunities for other manufacturers to expand their own makes.


It'll do no good to respond to the original post. The pecking party has already begun. "Bite the Dust" is not just a Queen song, the reference goes back as far as the 1728 and depending on how it's translated, may go all the way back to Homer's "Iliad". The OP's title may be seen as jocose or even glib but I don't read it as anyone dancing on a business's grave.

Kurt
Posted by: Dave B

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/20/13 01:48 PM

+1 Kurt!
Posted by: musicpassion

Re: Another one bites the dust - 01/21/13 01:34 AM

Originally Posted By: peterws
"Another one bites the dust" was a much loved and played funeral song (by Queen) when I was at the Crem. I only had to spin the disc, fortunately. It is, or has become, an accepted phrase. One might use it of an old contemporary who has .. .departed this world, in this context it is to me at any rate, rather wistful, ie that things were different. Like ya favourite pub`s closed down (moist eyes evident). (Mine did, but it`s reopened again heh heh)


Ok, thanks - I thought I was hearing 80s rock music.