Estonia 168 owners?

Any other 168 owners out there?

present

I don't qualify, but I did *almost* pull the trigger on a 190 this summer.

I have a question to those who may be more familiar with Estonia than I am.

Has Estonia killed the 7' that was supposed to be coming out? I was told by the dealer that they were expecting a 7' soon. It is listed in the brochure he gave me but there is nothing about it on the Estonia web site. Is the 7' Estonia dead?

I don't want to hijack the thread, but the new Estonia model L210 (~6'11") is just now in production. Frank Baxter and a few other forum members like myself went to Ori's Manhattan store for a reception with the President of the Republic of Estonia in late September. The United Nations was in session and the reception introduced the first L210. That was fun!

The L210 debuted at NAMM last week and a quick search of YouTube or past threads on this forum will get you to just a couple of videos made so far. They will gradually become available to Estonia dealers worldwide. I'm on that waiting list.

I'm not surprised that brochures and website updates are lagging behind the development of the instruments. Except for the Pianoworld ad on the right featuring a picture of Frank's hands, I cannot remember seeing any other advertisement from the company. The Estonia L225 has been out for 2 years and, while it is now in the brochure, it still hasn't made the website.

Now back to the OP. I'm fresh out of Estonia L168's. I'm on the waiting list for those, too.

Thanks for that info, Sam. While I'm not *currently* in the market for an acoustic grand, I'll be really interested to experience the new Estonia. Heck, maybe by the time they make it to my neck of the woods I'll be ready.

I am a very happy owner of a 168 Estonia from 2000.

Amazing how popular the Estonia is, yet mine has been on sale on Piano-mart and the only bites are from Nigerians...

Pianomart is a nice format and is convenient, however, having listed some used pianos on there for almost year of a variety of brands, I can say that is a reflection of the traffic on Pianomart moreso than Estonia. Nigerians really love pianos. I don't get many genuine inquiries for any brand listed.

Saying Estonia is a popular piano at PW or a highly regarded piano by many afficionados is different from saying it's popular. Most average piano buyers have never heard of Estonia (or many of the pianos frequently discussed at PW). If they only make/sell 300 pianos per year that's not popular in the sense of well known or highly regarded by the general public.

True, but a piano that is in short supply in the new department, should drive up some interest in the used department, even if it is less known by the general public.

Mark:

Insider tip:

Please consider to perhaps start accepting your dealer's repeated offers to assist re the the small adjustment your piano seems to need. For reasons unknown you keep insisting to use exclusively your own tuner who is also your teacher, someone who doesn't seem to like much the piano you bought.

Please remember that the dealer you bought your piano from happens to be one of the most respected dealers in U.S. and has repeatedly offered you assistance in the matter.

Mark, your story is so out of the ordinary that it's simply not believable. There's nobody who had a problem with Estonia that couldn't have easily fixed. I wrote you several times myself to help but didn't get the feeling you "wanted" to be helped.

You may have your own reasons why you're doing what you're doing but it's not gonna be beneficial to you, your piano or your chances to sell.

This all said in good will to get results for you instead of being permanently locked in what appears to be a "hopeless situation".

Please consider again: if only for being able to sell piano.

Plus stop getting dubious mail from Nigeria....

Norbert

Norbert, you don't know what you are talking about. I have been using the tuner the dealer recommended two years ago (John Gunderson). He was here this week. Check with the dealer and the tech.

As for the dealer, his main guy said I needed new strings on the high end when he left 15 months ago, and when I tried to setup an appointment for the work, they wouldn't take or return my calls after numerous attempts.

You really need to mind your own business, you have no clue.

When they did the previous work it took them four months to get the parts and 3 months to install them. They chipped the plate too. And then mailed me touch up paint.

As I told you in a PM, I gave up on the dealer and moving on to selling it. If it hurts your feeling or your brand reputation too bad. I don't even think Estonia piano's are bad, mine isn't up to their high standards and the service hasn't been good.

And my previous posts in this thread did not mention any issues with the piano...

Mark:



There are no Estonia parts that wouldn't be available within few days or weeks at the longest.

We once had to order a whole lid which was damaged in transit, it took 2 weeks, the longest we ever had to wait for anything.

By the way, did you forget to mention that the dealer offered you also to exchange your piano or give you full value towards another one?

I'm not here to make a case "for" or "against" your situation but if people would know who the dealer in question is I don't thing your case would be considered very credible.

It's all I wish to say - best wishes,

Norbert

I should of taken him up on that deal, but the Estonia's he had at that time all had the same string leveling problems and we thought it could be fixed in mine. I wasn't interested in the other pianos he had either or spending more money.

But nice diversion from the real issue Norbert...

Norbert, everything I have stated is the truth. Ask the dealer.

I have. Quite extensively actually.

Got a very different version of things....

Very Sincerely

Norbert

Then he is lying... good night.

Think about it. I gave up on the dealer, he is off the hook. I am selling the piano and making the best of it. YOU bring up the issues about the problems, but not me. So why would I not be honest. What would be my agenda. We know your agenda is to protect the brand, or is it a sneaky way of you to knock the dealer in question? I have no agenda but to move onto another piano...people are not stupid.

PS: I saved all our PM conversations and the ones with the dealer. If I post them you will truly be embarrassed.

Hi Mark....
I am interested in the issues you had with your 168. Could you please summarize? I have had mine for about a year and, though I enjoy the overall tone.... the treble section is unpleasant to my ears and a few of the notes in particular have a dead sound to them. My dealer keeps saying time will heal but I wonder.

Thanks

Sure you are and you know it.

Of course he is. The part of the sentence after "but" does exactly what he says he's not doing!

"I'm not here to make a case "for" or "against" your situation but if people would know who the dealer in question is I don't thing your case would be considered very credible."

People may not know but I have gone out of my way before trying to help Mark.

I feel very bad when someone is not happy with his piano, especially when it's a very well regarded make we happen to represent ourselves. My efforts to Mark were 100% sincere.

Despite several probings including talking with dealer myself, no information to date has been given indicating where a problem with the piano may be.

General descriptions of sorts all seem to fall under general maintaintanace, regulation and questions of voicing perhaps.

If it is anything else, there's a factory warranty, by the one one of the fastest and most reliable in the industry.

At no time howeve, was there an indication that actual parts or components needed being changed which as mentioned, would not have been a problem if they were.

Most importantly,and people may not know this, there have been several overtures by dealer to make his customer happy, including apparently exchanging the piano or getting full credit towards another one.

In my book, this is exemplary behaviour by the dealer.

To *not* accept any of these options leaves one one puzzled of what this case is all about.

There's nothing against Mark at all - he can choose to do whatever he likes to - but to come on board at the very moment when people report about their overall very happy experience with this piano, can't help but leave one puzzled.

Also from our experience used Estonias are today a sought after commodidity on market selling very well - nobody's getting calls or needs getting calls "from Nigeria"....

So what is this all about?

Without Mark's own help including "accepting" any help that has been offered to him, this case will forever be a mystery.

Still believing that the offer of being helpful to Mark and "accepting it" by himself should remain an open option.

To make Mark happy is what this is all about.
But it needs two to tango..

It it's become a question "for" or "against" anybody, it's actually all "for Mark"

Norbert

Again Norbert you do not know what you are talking about.

As I stated there were kinks in the strings causing terrible overtones. They said they believed it was from the string leveling machine. Most of the strings were replaced, but not all. They used Pure Tone strings. It took 4 months to get them. Talking to the supplier the dealer waited a LONG time to order them. It took 3 months to put in the strings. Lyre was creaking badly and is still an issue. It was reportedly replaced.

The dealer sent his "best guy" over when the piano still sounded bad. Your words Norbert.

When the dealers "best guy" was done he said I needed to use one of their tuners (Which I now use). John Gunderson. He also said the piano needed more string work at a later date.

At this point and for months the principals involved would not take my calls or call back.

I told Norbert that I gave up..since the dealer seemed to have given up.

I am trying to sell the piano. Case closed.


I also believe Norbert is trying to discredit the said dealer in some under handed way. Just a guess.

His private messages to me stated how bad my piano sounded and that the dealer needed to make it right. This was way after all the work was done except for the visit by the "big guy tech".

Recently he wanted to know what was the status of my piano and I told him I was selling it. That the dealer would not take my calls. I told him to not get involved.

Again Norbert, mind your own business. And if you don't like my Estonia comments too bad. All I said in this thread was I wasn't getting any action on Piano mart. Not one negative word about the piano having problems.

Back to the original issue....
I'm wondering if there are any estonia 168 owners out there who are satisfied with their purchase... interested in hearing from them. Thanks

Purchased in 2004 and extremely satisfied. We once hosted a recital for my daughter's teacher, a fine pianist who comes from a very musical family. Anyway, she said our piano was her favorite among all the ones she'd ever played. We bought it when our son was nine. He's now a conservatory piano student, so it has seen heavy use and held up very well.

If you already own one, what's the point of asking? There is a site for Estonia owners that might interest you, but someone else will have to tell you the name as I don't remember it.

Yes, I already have one but am a bit dis-satisfied with a few things. Just wanting to connect with others who own the same piano to compare notes.

The estonia site is very lonely by the way.

Thanks to those who have posted.

It was called Estoniaworld, and was very active for a few years, but it no longer exists.

I am also an Estonia 168 owner. The piano was newly purchased in 2010.

Hi Lolek...
Curious to know your level of satisfaction with your instrument. Also, do you remember how many tunings it took before stabilizing. Lastly, how do you have it voiced? On the mellow to bright continuum.

Thanks
Peabody

Hi All,

My wife and I just received our new L168 this past weekend and could not be more thrilled! Over the last several months, we visited a number of dealers and "test-drove" many nice pianos. In the end, we decided on Estonia and could not be any happier with our decision. Navigating through all of the information and sometimes subtle differences between makes and models was educating (and sometimes overwhelming!), but very rewarding in that we have a much better understanding and appreciation of pianos in general.

The one individual who helped immensely with our education and decision was Norbert at Heritage Pianos. From our first meeting, we immediately had the sense that we were dealing with a consummate professional with an incredible knowledge and love of pianos. Norbert literally spent hours with us discussing the differences between pianos in terms of the components used and their construction (at one point he actually partially disassembled a piano to help us understand!). But most importantly, he afforded us time alone to simply play and experience the instruments for ourselves. There was never any pressure to purchase the piano from him and I truly believe that he would have been just as sincere and happy for us had we found and purchased a piano from another dealer.

Norbert, you consistently went above and beyond for us and we cannot thank you enough for all the help and support throughout!

Chris

Dear Chris,
Thank you for joining Piano World forums just in time to write that post. I have bought my ticket and am on my way to Canada. While there, I shall be sure to ask Norbert if he has any bridges to sell me, too.
sleepy

Estonia17151:

Thank you very much for your kind words, we're honored!
Enjoy your new piano - know it means a lot to you!
best regards,
Norbert

Norbert, talking to yourself on the internet is not a good sign.

This was an interesting thread until someone called out someone else on a manner better handled privately. Now it's a complete joke of a troll thread complete with sockpuppets. Don't you guys see how highly PW threads are featured in Google search results? Flame threads only tarnish the sites reputation and drive away traffic. If you feel the need to berate someone personally please do it via PM.

(Incidentally -- I tried to send the message via but apparently there is a limit making PMs to some members in possible. PW should rectify this as broken PM systems force the dirty laundry into the spotlight)

Back on topic I have never seen an Estonia. In the St Louis market that make doesn't exist.

If I had found a "report post" option I would have used it.

Sleepy, it is not often that we moderators get involved with various arguments and spats that occur between members. It is apparent that you are after Norbert for some reason and your comments here are harsh and overbearing.

Your accusations regarding the new poster joining PW just to praise Norbert and their new Estonia are unfounded and unnecessary, particularly the comment about Norbert selling bridges; if it was meant as a joke, it is not very funny, I’m afraid.

Norbert has provided evidence that Chris is indeed a real customer and sincere about their comments. There is no need to go so far as to insult Norbert and accuse him of being dishonest in any way. This is unacceptable in my view, and I think you own Norbert an apology.

Rick

Rick if you're satisfied the customer is legit I'll retract the sock puppet insinuation. I do however stand by my request that personal grudges be taken to PMs. The only reason I posted publicly is that some of the pm inboxes were full or blocked.

I hope the customer wasn't too scared off to say more about their piano. I've yet to see one in person.