Yamaha C1, thoughts?

Posted by: Jason Zhao

Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/03/13 10:02 PM

I was wondering about everyone's thoughts about the C1 Yamaha Grand. My dealer has the Yamaha C1 price tag at about $22,000. (I live in Edmonton, AB Canada)

Do you think they will later give a liquidation price to the older C Series as the CX series are replacing it?
Posted by: Mark...

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/03/13 10:06 PM

For 22k you should be able to find a nicer bigger piano.
Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/03/13 10:08 PM

Yes, that's what I thought to...
But in Edmonton AB, Canada, prices of pianos are just very very VERY high.
Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/03/13 10:09 PM

$14,900 is considered very cheap for just a Yamaha GC1.
Posted by: Steven Y. A.

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/03/13 10:29 PM

Hi you can give Toronto or vamcouver/calgary dealers a call I know Merriam pianos pick up their Kawais from Vancouver regularly the shipping cost is minimal ( something around $500)
For a 22k purchase it's worth the trip imo. I am not a big fan of feeding greedily overpriced dealers.
You can also get a quote from other dealers in Canada and let them price match or lose your business. Time to test your negotiating skill.
Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/03/13 11:21 PM

Hmm, do you think Calgary would be a worthy trip to get a cheaper price?
And to be honest, my negotiating skills are the worst.
Posted by: Steven Y. A.

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/03/13 11:45 PM

Call the Calgary dealers first see what price they offer.
My favorite piano at 20k range is Vogel 180t by Schimnel. Much nicer than Yamaha IMO. AmazIng singing tone and sweet sound. It's worth to check out.
Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/04/13 08:31 PM

A Vogel huh?
I've never heard of that brand before.
But you see my dad is very stubborn and will only accept to buy a Yamaha. Though if there was a miracle I might be able to convince him to at least look at it.
I couldn't find any videos of the Vogel, can it be compared to the Schimmel C-182?

Also, let's say I do get a good deal in Calgary, will they ship the piano or do I have to go pick it up myself?
Posted by: Steven Y. A.

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/04/13 09:18 PM

ask ur dad what he thinks about German/Euro made high end piano vs Japanese piano.
Vogel 180T has almost identical "gut" as the Schimmel C-182, cabinet design are different. Their sound and touch are almost identical. (closer than any other Schimmel model vs c-182)
Vogel is Schimmel's new factory in Poland.
They has same soundboard and wood, which was manufactured in Schimmel factory then shipped to Poland. Then assembled in Vogel Factory . They both have the schimmel designed full Renner action - is probably my favourite. same string, same hammer. they are 30% cheaper from Schimmel due to cheaper labour in Poland.

I was shopping for my piano just few weeks ago, if not the space issue Vogel 180T is my no.1 choice at 20k category smile
show your dad the Piano
http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall12/44.html

heres a clip which does match my memory of the sweet sounding Vogel. V177 was the vintage model.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQCunZLw-LU
Posted by: personne

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/04/13 10:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Jason Zhao
A Vogel huh?
But you see my dad is very stubborn and will only accept to buy a Yamaha.


Kawai RX-2 is also at 20K range, may be your dad will be able to accept this one smile
Posted by: xbj

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/04/13 10:14 PM

IMHO, the sound of the A1 (NOT the GA1! but the Japanese A1) and C2 are far superior to the C1. I hear real phase cancellation going on in the tone of the 5'3" scale of the C1. Why I also prefer C2's to C3's for the same reason, while everyone tells me I'm nuts. Once you get up to the c5's and above, I no longer hear any phase cancellation, although differences between individual pianos are more pronounced. If you can test the pianos side by side, you'll easily hear the difference. Something about how the string length creates the harmonics. The C1 just sounds bad compared to the ones on either side.
Posted by: musicpassion

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Jason Zhao
But you see my dad is very stubborn and will only accept to buy a Yamaha.

Does he have any reasons for being stuck on Yamaha? Is it just somthing he's heard of, and therefore comfortable with?
Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 06:20 PM

The moment I show him a piano that I might consider that is NOT yamaha, he raises his voice and soon starts yelling something like ONLY YAMAHA.

I've heard of the C1 before and to me it's perfectly fine, I've tried the GC1 to and that already seemed impressive.

As for a reason, my dad just seems to base his reason off of my incredibly biased piano teacher. She always claimed that Yamaha is better than Kawai and that the only brand that's better is Mason and Hamlin or Steinway.

My dad seemed to have listened to her TO much as I think I know how to judge what I look at.
Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 06:21 PM

My dad also never listens to reason and the only method is to trick him into admitting something.
Posted by: Steven Y. A.

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 06:33 PM

start working with your teacher then. tell her your favorite pianist Ashkenazy plays a brand called "Bechstein" which you have never heard before. Liszt also owns a Bechstein and performed on Bosendorfer. Rachmaninov plays on Bluthner and Prokofiev owns an August Forster. What is her opinion on these brands?
Tell her Peter Odunjian (the conductor of Toronto Symphony Orchestra) owns a Schimmel, not Yamaha. etc..
convince your teacher then let your teacher convince your dad laugh

yamaha is great but make sure you dig around see what you like the best before making the decision. I assume this piano is staying with you for many years.
Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 07:27 PM

Hmm, that does sound like a good plan, although she might say something ridiculous like last time. (She once said that Kawai was in bankruptcy)

She said that Yamaha is the choice of teachers, because of clarity or something.

But once I do convince my teacher, my dad should willingly listen to her or else he's just a stupid being.

I found that I love Schimmel sound, very bright and sweet, I wonder if a Vogel would sound like that...

Any other methods? One method I found was to get him to listen to a piano sound without revealing the brand and ask him if he likes it. He once told me that he liked a Kawai RX-1 and when I revealed the brand to him he looked awkward. How's this method?
Posted by: Steven Y. A.

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 07:42 PM

haha hes your dad not mine..
some famous engineer said use the nature, dont fight against it..
Posted by: PianistInJapan

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 07:47 PM

Is this teacher associated with a Yamaha school?

Other question:
Is there any positive bias towards Yamaha in the country you are located in? From your online name I understand you may have Chinese roots, so maybe you live in China. I read somewhere that Yamaha has a very good name in China. Maybe it is good to point out that nowadays more and more music schools in China buy Kawai pianos rather than Yamahas (at least that is what my Kawai dealer in Japan told me, but it may be biased).
Posted by: adak

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 08:13 PM

Originally Posted By: PianistInJapan
Is this teacher associated with a Yamaha school?

Other question:
Is there any positive bias towards Yamaha in the country you are located in? From your online name I understand you may have Chinese roots, so maybe you live in China. I read somewhere that Yamaha has a very good name in China. Maybe it is good to point out that nowadays more and more music schools in China buy Kawai pianos rather than Yamahas (at least that is what my Kawai dealer in Japan told me, but it may be biased).


If you had read the first post it clearly says he is Canadian.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Steven Y. A.
Liszt also owns a Bechstein and performed on Bosendorfer. Rachmaninov plays on Bluthner and Prokofiev owns an August Forster.

WOW! - They really are immortal! They are very famous decomposers.

(Sorry Stephen, couldn't resist)
Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 08:54 PM

Well, my teacher once worked in a Yamaha School but is no longer associated with them.
Now she works as one of Alberta's top private Teachers.
Posted by: Steven Y. A.

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 09:05 PM

Originally Posted By: PianistInJapan
Is this teacher associated with a Yamaha school?

Other question:
Is there any positive bias towards Yamaha in the country you are located in? From your online name I understand you may have Chinese roots, so maybe you live in China. I read somewhere that Yamaha has a very good name in China. Maybe it is good to point out that nowadays more and more music schools in China buy Kawai pianos rather than Yamahas (at least that is what my Kawai dealer in Japan told me, but it may be biased).


that is correct. the Piano boom in China goes back all the way to 80s-90s, when every household wants a piano as their major purchase (same as TV). The earlier quality of Chinese pianos were poor,the price tag of German pianos were unreachable (which is still the case today), where Yamaha has already established their reputation in 60s - while the price is still very very expensive but institutions and very rich people are still able to purchase them. You can imagine the difference between a Yamaha and Chinese pianos from 80s-90s. Before Langlang went to Curtis, he has only heard of 2 brands: pearl river - which he practiced 12 years on it, and Yamaha - everyones dream piano.

Kawai today has a better cost/performance ratio. And Shingeru Kawai has a very attractive price. (where German pianos are twice the cost in China vs North America). Yamaha and Kawai produce some of the most durable pianos.
Posted by: 4evrBeginR

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/05/13 09:24 PM

Just count your blessings. If my parents were buying me a piano, I would take whatever brand they insist on and not argue. Your dad may have good reasons to consider only Yamaha such as quality, reliability, ease of re-sell, low cost of ownership. I could think of a lot worse things to have than a new Yamaha.

It's just the way it is some times. When my boss buys me a new laptop, do I tell him I don't want a Thinkpad, I want a Macbook Air? No. I find myself the absolute best Thinkpad I could get.
Posted by: ashley john

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/06/13 03:43 AM

Hey...you can get it at much lower price. Haggle or search for another dealer.
Posted by: markmarz

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/06/13 06:05 AM

How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless child!
Posted by: jawhitti

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/06/13 07:53 AM

I got an eight year old C6 for 22k in the US. I gather the Canadian market is different but 22k for a C1 seems awfully high.
Posted by: Roger Ransom

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/06/13 08:21 AM

Yes, when I was a teenager my Dad got me a very used Lyon and Healy grand piano. I was ecstatic and played it until I was out on my own supporting myself.

There is nothing wrong with a Yamaha or whatever else he wants to buy you. Thank your lucky stars and play it. There are MANY people playing on old beat up pianos who would love to trade with you.
Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/06/13 06:37 PM

Well I am grateful, I just want my dad to open up more to other options. I find the C1 to be amazing but perhaps there is something even better for the same price out there.

I heard that Edmonton prices were high but $22,000 for a C1 does now seem a bit high now.
There are three piano dealers, one sells Yamaha's and Bosendorfrrs, the other sells Kawai's, and the other sells Steinways, Heinzmann's, Bostons and Essexs.

All of them have pretty high prices compared to other places.

Would you think Calgary has much cheaper prices?
Posted by: Jonathan Alford

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/06/13 06:45 PM

If you really like that C1, come up with a price you are comfortable with and make an offer.
Posted by: adak

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/06/13 06:46 PM

Have you considered getting a second-hand piano? Read the Piano Book http://www.pianobuyer.com/pianobook.html and save yourself some money. That is an option to consider.

http://www.amazon.ca/Piano-Book-Buying-O...3703&sr=8-1

Of course it is best to learn how to negotiate. You don't have the buy the piano right away. There are always pianos available for sale instores and elsewhere, there is no rush. Don't be pressured into paying a high price.

And in case it wasn't obvious, you are not suppose to pay list price on pianos. There is always room to go down, whether by 10% or 75% off. It can depends on how long that piano has been sitting in the showroom, a piano sitting there for 10 years can be bought for more of a discount than a piano that sells itself in a month.
Posted by: 4evrBeginR

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/06/13 07:30 PM

How easily could you distingish a GC1 from a C1 blind-folded? Also the same goes with the GC2 from a C2. If a GC1 and C1 sounds night and day different to you, that's one thing, but if they sound almost the same to you, then you might as well get the GC2 that's 5 inches longer and it cost less than the C1.

Your other choices are not viable. Kawai is ruled out by your teacher. Boston is made by Kawai. Essex is made in China by Pearl River and quality is not at the Yamaha GC1 or C1 level. You can buy 3 Yamaha C1 for the price of a Steinway S.

While there are lots of choices, if you rule out made in China, which is a common practice by the overseas Chinese community, and do not want to spend the big money for made in USA or Europe, then for made in Japan, you've got only Yamaha and Kawai / Boston. People say there are lots of choices, but for an overseas Chinese family there are surprisingly few. It comes down to which Yamaha you will choose beginning with the U1. I would guess that since there are more Chinese children playing piano than any other ethnic group, this may be one reason why Yamaha leads the pack.

Posted by: Norbert

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/06/13 09:02 PM

Quote:
if you rule out made in China, which is a common practice by the overseas Chinese community, and do not want to spend the big money for made in USA or Europe, then for made in Japan, you've got only Yamaha and Kawai / Boston.


This certainly used to be the case but is rapidly changing.
Many Chinese are now discovering the quality of their own top makers becoming less and less reluctant to consider them.

In fact, many are very happy [and proud...] to have a 'home grown' quality at their avail without having to spend mega bucks.

The other day we sold a 7' Chinese made grand for about same as their neighbors had paid for their 5'7 something grand.

They watched during delivery, played the piano later and - were in shock.

Times *are* changing.

I predicted that long time ago...

Norbert
Posted by: turandot

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 09:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Norbert
Quote:
if you rule out made in China, which is a common practice by the overseas Chinese community, and do not want to spend the big money for made in USA or Europe, then for made in Japan, you've got only Yamaha and Kawai / Boston.


This certainly used to be the case but is rapidly changing.
Many Chinese are now discovering the quality of their own top makers becoming less and less reluctant to consider them.

In fact, many are very happy [and proud...] to have a 'home grown' quality at their avail without having to spend mega bucks.

The other day we sold a 7' Chinese made grand for about same as their neighbors had paid for their 5'7 something grand.

They watched during delivery, played the piano later and - were in shock.

Times *are* changing.

I predicted that long time ago...

Norbert


That national price in "home-grown" quality is of course what caused them to emigrate in the first place. laugh

Norbert,

It's true that you've been predicting this for a long time, in fact for as long as you've been selling Chinese. But your statements about pride in home-grown products are a bulging bag of BS unless you're selling into a second and third generation population. Try meeting the emigrants at the airport as they de-plane with a vending cart of paper fans and parasols. You'll find out all you need to know about national pride. grin

My job has put me in close contact with thousands of Chinese emigrants since the late 70's. The restrictive conditions under which Chinese emigrants can leave the source of their national pride have improved drastically, but the fear and loathing of home-made products is just as pronounced now as it was a generation ago despite a world of difference in the products. Maybe in another generation a rational approach will temper the almost irrational extent to which the Chinese emigrant population seeks to insulate themselves from all they left behind. That would be a good thing.

In the meantime your posts on this topic are always to be savored.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 11:01 AM

Quote:
Maybe in another generation a rational approach will temper the almost irrational extent to which the Chinese emigrant population seeks to insulate themselves from all they left behind. That would be a good thing.


Dealing with Chinese immigrants on an almost weekly basis, I can testify that most current immigrants don't leave "all" behind.

In many cases the husbands don't leave their jobs and keep on working in China. Nor do they sever their family ties. Kids frequently travel to China to visit family or attend colleges.

When they graduate here, many return to work there.

Current Chinese immigrants also are far from "irrational"

They know a good deal when they see one: Chinese products becoming increasingly part of their choice.

They are fully aware China becoming an economic superpower and not necessarily look at others with glee or envy any longer.

Perhaps the reason Pearl River decided in last minute to have the soon to arrive Kayserburg Artist super piano built in China instead of Germany?

It's a mixed bag with confidence in their own pianos and manufacturing slowly but steadily increasing.

From consumer to manufacturer.

The latter, I admittedly didn't "predict"...

Norbert grin
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 11:10 AM


Originally Posted By: turandot

Norbert,
It's true that you've been predicting this for a long time, in fact for as long as you've been selling Chinese. But your statements about pride in home-grown products are a bulging bag of BS unless you're selling into a second and third generation population. Try meeting the emigrants at the airport as they de-plane with a vending cart of paper fans and parasols. You'll find out all you need to know about national pride. grin
My job has put me in close contact with thousands of Chinese emigrants since the late 70's. The restrictive conditions under which Chinese emigrants can leave the source of their national pride have improved drastically, but the fear and loathing of home-made products is just as pronounced now as it was a generation ago despite a world of difference in the products. Maybe in another generation a rational approach will temper the almost irrational extent to which the Chinese emigrant population seeks to insulate themselves from all they left behind. That would be a good thing.
In the meantime your posts on this topic are always to be savored.



Originally Posted By: Norbert
Dealing with Chinese immigrants on an almost weekly basis, I can testify that most current immigrants don't leave "all" behind.
In many cases the husbands don't leave their jobs and keep on working in China. Nor do they sever their family ties. Kids frequently travel to China to visit family or attend colleges.
When they graduate here, many return to work there.
Current Chinese immigrants also are far from "irrational"
They know a good deal when they see one: Chinese products becoming increasingly part of their choice.
It's a mixed bag with confidence in their own pianos slowly but steadily increasing.
That's all.
Norbert smile


Both postings lack any facts to substantiate the claims made.So typical of this part of the forum where opinions replace actual facts.
Posted by: Steven Y. A.

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 01:19 PM

Vancouver-Surrey Chinese are wealthier than anywhere else in North America.
People immigrate to Canada/States for different reason.
Posted by: kapelli

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 02:28 PM

Did you thought about Boston piano maybe?
It's a mix of Steinway desing and Kawai parts, so that could be some way to go.

Maybe you should also send your father to another teacher laugh
I'am serious, teacher who only accepts Yamaha perhaps do not have idea about other comapnies or is just stubborn as person in general.
There are a lot of good pianos like W.HOFFMANN (good Bechstein trademark)that I would personally took over overpriced Yamahas.
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 03:35 PM


Read through the entire thread. Very straight forward observations.

As the parent (father) is funding the purchase, the choice is his to make. While the OP resides under his roof he/she will be subject to parental decision making.

When the OP lives independently then purchase decisions can be made independently.

I am not actually sure why there is an attempt by the OP to insinuate him or herself into the purchase equation.
Also not sure why there is content here from the OP labelling one of his parents biased and stupid. It seems to me the intolerance of the father has been well learned by the off-spring.

Good musicians play whatever instrument is placed before them. Poor musicians make excuses and blame the equipment.

The choice for that part lies with the OP.
Posted by: Steve Cohen

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 03:50 PM

Originally Posted By: kapelli
Maybe you should also send your father to another teacher laugh
I'am serious, teacher who only accepts Yamaha perhaps do not have idea about other comapnies or is just stubborn as person in general.
There are a lot of good pianos like W.HOFFMANN (good Bechstein trademark)that I would personally took over overpriced Yamahas.


One other possibility is that the teacher is being paid a commission by the local Ymaha dealership. It is not at all uncommon (and certainly not limited to Yamaha dealers).

You might suggest that he read a relatively unbiased publication...Piano Buyer. It may open him to other possibilities.
Posted by: Roger Ransom

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Roger Ransom
Yes, when I was a teenager my Dad got me a very used Lyon and Healy grand piano. I was ecstatic and played it until I was out on my own supporting myself.

There is nothing wrong with a Yamaha or whatever else he wants to buy you. Thank your lucky stars and play it. There are MANY people playing on old beat up pianos who would love to trade with you.



Originally Posted By: Mark Marziale
How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless child!


Not everyone thinks the OP has a valid complaint. Maybe he should just wait until he can buy his own piano with his own earnings. Seems a little spoiled to me.
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen

One other possibility is that the teacher is being paid a commission by the local Ymaha dealership. It is not at all uncommon (and certainly not limited to Yamaha dealers).

You might suggest that he read a relatively unbiased publication...Piano Buyer. It may open him to other possibilities.


This much is obvious but again a moot point. The funding is the parent’s and the parent makes the decision wise or not.

Unlikely to change the mind of an autocrat Steve, Pianobuyer publications notwithstanding.

Originally Posted By: Roger Ransom

Not everyone thinks the OP has a valid complaint. Maybe he should just wait until he can buy his own piano with his own earnings. Seems a little spoiled to me.


It is the sense of entitlement to form an opinion of how someone else’ money is to be spent that I find galling in the extreme.



Posted by: kapelli

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos

Read through the entire thread. Very straight forward observations.

As the parent (father) is funding the purchase, the choice is his to make. While the OP resides under his roof he/she will be subject to parental decision making.

When the OP lives independently then purchase decisions can be made independently.

I am not actually sure why there is an attempt by the OP to insinuate him or herself into the purchase equation.
Also not sure why there is content here from the OP labelling one of his parents biased and stupid. It seems to me the intolerance of the father has been well learned by the off-spring.

Good musicians play whatever instrument is placed before them. Poor musicians make excuses and blame the equipment.

The choice for that part lies with the OP.


I would agree with you, BUT....

As I understand from the topic, the man who is spending money doesen't know anything about pianos and rely on opinion of one teacher that "X company is the best and the rest is not worth" and is treating this as his final and best statement.

It's not the way a piano on which somebody else will be playing should be bought. This is kinda like your father would choose a wife for you without asking do you like her or not...

All we need to do, I think, is do some education.
Yamaha is excellent about their marketing and dozens of systems in pianos, but the point that systems doesn't play.

Maybe he should go with his father to big piano store and play on some other brands and speak with seller or technicians?

BTW, one I found comparison of 10k Samick piano and Yamaha GB (or something like this, the cheapest grand from them) and Yamaha did so many saving even on hammers that a lot chepaer Samick won the test easily. So, in my opinion, while buying cheap pianos doesn't mean that well known brand will be much better than Korean ar any other.

And, when people are educated, they have more fun with choosing the instrument, seeing and hearing the differences and enjoying playing on different kind of instruments.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 05:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Steven Y. A.
Vancouver-Surrey Chinese are wealthier than anywhere else in North America.
People immigrate to Canada/States for different reason.


Steven,

Could you elaborate on that? I'm trying to get a mental fix on th type of consumer Norbert is describing -- the one who welcomes Chinese products into his home and takes pride in their origin. For example, he mentions students. Chinese nationals in the US for study enter via student visas. They may well be from wealthy families, but it would be highly unusual for them to acquire a grand piano during a student stay for the obvious reason that their stay here is conditional upon remaining a student. Also student life and grand pianos don't mix. Chinese worker fathers who are in the US for job reasons and have left the family behind are generally here by means of work visas which are controlled in part by their employers. Their stay here is based on their employers' posting them here. Generally, they do not acquire expensive pianos during their stay, particularly Chinese ones.

Truly wealthy Chinese can literally buy their way into permanent residency in the US by showing assets that prove conclusively that they will not become welfare clients during their stay. But even in that instance, in my experience resistance to Chinese goods is high, and attraction to goods from elsewhere that are perceived to be of higher prestige and quality is equally high. I'm not endorsing that repulsion and attraction. It's just what I've noticed in my own experience. It doesn't come from any sort of objective evaluation, simply from a distaste.

I'm not up to speed on Canadian immigration and I have no idea why Chiense immigrants would enter Canada for different reasons that they enter California, but I would like to learn about it.

Posted by: Norbert

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 06:01 PM

It always amazes me how quick generalizations are being made from one part of the continent to another.

Chinese immigrants have a very long history in Canada, they have contributed immensely to the development of our country.
By the way, a large group is born here and indistinguishable from any other.

Hong Kong immigrants came to B.C. en masse in the 70's and 80's as have Taiwanese and now it's mostly Mainland Chinese.

It's a very mixed group and no "general statement" applies to all of them.
Perhaps the super rich prefer certain products, but that's not all we have.

Regardless of what specific background they may be, all are driven to give their kids the best they can afford, be they super rich or *not*

In addition, most recognize a good deal when they see one. [me too, by the way... wink ]

So there is without doubt a diversification of what is being bought these days involving all kinds of makes and products.

And then there always is ["was"] the zillions of grey-market pianos many now wish they wouldn't have bought.

Nobody taking them even into trade these days..

One doesn't have to calculate national statistics to realize it's a very different world out there.

The only good thing being that soon the great American Baldwin will enjoy a tremendous come back - just don't ask me "why"

Norbert thumb
Posted by: adak

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 06:13 PM

Most ignorant post I have read on PianoWorld so far. Maybe if you open your mind a little you will understand a bit more. I bet you think all Blacks are criminals and Asians only know how to copy others. What else are you ignorant of?

Originally Posted By: turandot


Steven,

Could you elaborate on that? I'm trying to get a mental fix on th type of consumer Norbert is describing -- the one who welcomes Chinese products into his home and takes pride in their origin. For example, he mentions students. Chinese nationals in the US for study enter via student visas. They may well be from wealthy families, but it would be highly unusual for them to acquire a grand piano during a student stay for the obvious reason that their stay here is conditional upon remaining a student. Also student life and grand pianos don't mix. Chinese worker fathers who are in the US for job reasons and have left the family behind are generally here by means of work visas which are controlled in part by their employers. Their stay here is based on their employers' posting them here. Generally, they do not acquire expensive pianos during their stay, particularly Chinese ones.

Truly wealthy Chinese can literally buy their way into permanent residency in the US by showing assets that prove conclusively that they will not become welfare clients during their stay. But even in that instance, in my experience resistance to Chinese goods is high, and attraction to goods from elsewhere that are perceived to be of higher prestige and quality is equally high. I'm not endorsing that repulsion and attraction. It's just what I've noticed in my own experience. It doesn't come from any sort of objective evaluation, simply from a distaste.

I'm not up to speed on Canadian immigration and I have no idea why Chiense immigrants would enter Canada for different reasons that they enter California, but I would like to learn about it.

Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 06:49 PM

No, I'm not ignorant. You have no idea what it's like to deal with my dad and trust me, however stupid and un-human this may sound the way he just "brushes" off people that he think are irrelevant makes you want to throw a shoe at him. The way he thinks he can control all family matters and child futures is infuriating. He was the one who demolished my sisters dream and I'm pretty sure you have no idea how that feels.

By all means, I do know I am a spoiled child in this matter. I understand that there are many people in this world who cannot afford even a Yamaha B1. But the difference is that I am not them, my dad CAN afford it and he knows how important piano is to me. I enjoy music and everything about the piano.

I hope you understand that you may think I'm a spoiled, stubborn child that has been rubbed off of by his parent. But I think it is to soon for you to judge who or what I am.
You know litle about me and nothing about my family history. So please don't make rash assumptions like that about me again.

I am sorry about this message, I just don't like it when people judge me to soon.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 06:53 PM

Um Jason, I think that adak was referring to turandot.
Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 07:00 PM

Huh? I was replying to Silverwood Pianos wasn't I?
Sorry, I'm still not all that familiar with this forums functions. I was trying to reply to the user Silverwood Pianos.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Norbert

Many Chinese are now discovering the quality of their own top makers becoming less and less reluctant to consider them.

In fact, many are very happy [and proud...] to have a 'home grown' quality at their avail without having to spend mega bucks.

The other day we sold a 7' Chinese made grand for about same as their neighbors had paid for their 5'7 something grand.

They watched during delivery, played the piano later and - were in shock.

Times *are* changing.

I predicted that long time ago...

Norbert


Norbert,

On Feb. 20th of this year, I received an e-mail from a piano retailer in Surrey, BC commenting on the market reception for his Chinese pianos. There was no request for confidentiality from the sender. The e-mail came from his store account to my personal e-mai accountl. The retailer purported to be you. Here is his comment:

"Personally I start loosing interest in the Ritmueller-Brodmann crowd, prices are never low enough and its becoming a pissing contest. [white or non-Chinese crowd mostly…"

I had not requested the information. I did however reply with a commentt that the sender should resolve the differences between that comment and his frequent public pronouncements that Chinese immigrants were embracing their home country's piano products. The sender did not reply.

I'd like to repeat that suggestion. I'd also like you to come to a realization that generations of Chinese emigrants who made their home in Canada decades ago should be properly referred to as Canadians, not as immigrants. That does not mean that they devalue their cultural heritage. It simply puts them on equal footing with other Canadiann citizens, including you.

Posted by: Jason Zhao

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 07:29 PM

Oh I forgot to mention something,
In Edmonton, piano selections are very limited. Don's Warehouse pianos have a wider selection but still limited.

Anyone know any piano stores close to Edmonton that have wide selection?
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 07:38 PM

Originally Posted By: turandot
On Feb. 20th of this year, I received an e-mail ...

This is repugnant. The contents of private email should never be disclosed in public conversation.
Posted by: Jeff Clef

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 08:04 PM

"...Just count your blessings. If my parents were buying me a piano, I would take whatever brand they insist on and not argue...."

Well, Jason, I might argue harder in your behalf, if by luck or what-have-you (bribed teacher testimony, pig-headed prejudice--- who knows, it could be anything; it could be his horoscope), anyway, if by bad luck your dad had gotten his mind set on a really bad piano. But, that is not the case; your luck is good. I'm sorry about your sister, I can see that what happened hurts you. It may be of slight consolation that since I am old-and-wore-out, I have found out that life is a lot longer than I imagined when I was young, as you are. It may not be too late for your sister to find her dream again (these things are very strong). And in the end, you may have the piano that you long for.

If you can be patient for a few years with your dad's gift, maybe you will have something of value to trade in, which will help you move up the piano food chain. That is how most of us do it. If you work it right, you will make your dad proud that your accomplishments have let you outgrow this very nice and generous gift. By the time you move up, you will have also had time to persuade him that you know a lot about pianos--- as well as a lot about playing.

More love and appreciation--- these make a person open up. Less fighting--- it makes people afraid, and closes their goodwill toward you.

Well anyway, good luck.
Posted by: 4evrBeginR

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 08:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Jason Zhao

By all means, I do know I am a spoiled child in this matter. I understand that there are many people in this world who cannot afford even a Yamaha B1. But the difference is that I am not them, my dad CAN afford it and he knows how important piano is to me. I enjoy music and everything about the piano.


Jason, you should focus on the music that you love, and the fact that your father, however narrow minded he seems, must also love you, or he would not be buying a grand piano. So in the end, don't worry about the small things. They don't matter. While you are in shopping mode, small differences between models and brands seem like a canyon, but once at home and you have that new piano smell, when you focus on the music itself, none of it matters.

Work with your dad, and keep us posted which piano you end up with; and post pictures.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 08:05 PM

To publish a pm is really something else and I thought Turandot as long time writer would be somewhat above that.

What he forget to say is that mine were simple responses to his many [unsolicited] mails to me, perhaps in an effort to at least have one friendly supporter remaining on site. thumb

Having said that, the whole thread gives evidence of how things start to become contested "for just pennies" out there.

Those who [still] believe I'm here to fight it out for Chinese makers better be left in that illusion.

Fact is is that when you move up the ranks into more expensive, more "special" pianos, things do change a little bit.

Longer smiles and better players too. Nobody ego-ridden,wanting to "fight it out to the end", argumentative even when there's no argument, publishing pm's or doing other nasty stuff. The only frustration or question asked: "when does piano arrive?"

Which brings smiles back to the grind.

Confession offered - hopefully accepted.

Now let's hear from Tur - before I publish one of his pm's...

Norbert grin
Posted by: adak

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 08:20 PM

This thread is really going places.

To the OP, just get the Yamaha, you are damn lucky to be getting a grand piano from your parents, and Yamaha makes great pianos, so enjoy it, that is really all there is to say.
Posted by: Rickster

Re: Yamaha C1, thoughts? - 03/07/13 10:11 PM

I honestly don't like what I'm reading in this thread... It has reached a point of critical mass in my view and is on the verge of getting out of hand (if it hasn't already).

As far as turandot posting private emails from others to make his point, I suppose that is his prerogative, for better or worse.

My advice to everyone is to be careful what you write and send to someone over the internet; it may well come back to haunt you or be used against you at some point.

This thread is closed.