Estonia grand piano

Posted by: khnguyen

Estonia grand piano - 11/20/07 12:40 AM

Hi again,
Two weeks ago I asked the forum about a Kawai vs. Kanabe baby grand. The comments I got from the forum were very helpful and were similar to my observations. Most preferred the 5'3" Knabe over the 5'1" Kawai. We decided the same thing too. We liked the look and the sound of the Knabe 5'3" over the Kawai 5'1".....That was before we (may be it was my daughter) discovered the Estonia grand. My daughter wouldn't stop playing on it. She loved the quick and smooth action and I loved the tone of it. May be it was a longer piano 5'6" or what but it was just beautiful! My question today is: Why is it so expensive? May be because there is not many places in Houston carries them. Some of you might know some places I can purchase one for a more reasonable price or may be a "gently" used one out there with a friendlier price tag. Thanks again.
Posted by: Prospero

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/20/07 03:26 AM

I have an extremely high opinion of Estonia grand pianos. They have a reputation for being a lot of piano for the money, and I agree wholeheartedly.

Unless I am mistaken, Estonia is the only piano company that has a concert pianist in charge of operations. (ADDENDUM: I guess the Italians have one also.) If anything does not suit his highly sensitive ear, then he has it changed.

I have heard Estonia grands with tone, action, and performance definitely in the same class as my own Steinway grand. More than once, I have played an Estonia grand and wondered if it was better than a comparably-sized Steinway. Estonias are just great pianos, in my opinion. Definitely top-tier.

Kawai and Knabe are respectable pianos, but in my opinion they are not in a class with Estonia.

Also I think 5' 6" is a great size for the home, especially since Estonia has a reputation for being a powerful piano. As I see it, with a five-foot-six Estonia, the soundboard will be large enough to deliver great tone but small enough to keep the decibel levels comfortable in your home.

If the Estonia your daughter enjoyed was very expensive, it might have been the cabinetry. Estonia makes some fabulous-looking cabinets, but it really raises the price. The Black Satin finish is the cheapest, I think.

It is also possible that your dealer likes to begin with a ridiculously high asking price in order to give him room to bargain the price down--or, more likely, to give him room to reduce the price "in exchange" for a worthless trade-in. I once paid $1500 less than the asking price for a moderately-priced grand piano. Maybe you can bargain the price down.

So if you are seriously interested in the Estonia, you might check out the blue book of pianos online, which should tell you how much room you have to bargain the price down.

For some reason, I rarely see used Estonia grands. Is that a result of extremely high customer satisfaction? I do not know.

If I were you, I would pay close attention to the fact that your daughter really liked that particular Estonia, and I would definitely try to persuade the dealer to sell me that particular piano at a price lower than he is asking for it.

It is rare that we find a particular piano that we love so much. Pianos are made largely of wood, a highly variable product, which means that each individual piano has its own character. Your daughter may not like any other Estonia as much as she likes that one.

The piano that is worth the most is the piano that we really love. After all, we are buying the piano for our enjoyment. (I find it easy to forget this.)

Incidentally Estonias are manufactured at lower cost because of the the vagaries of the Eastern European-Asian economy, and Estonia is apparently building a great reputation in the United States; and these two factors indicate that the price of Estonia pianos is likely to rise considerably in the next several years.

Good luck!
Posted by: PoStTeNeBrAsLuX

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/20/07 05:13 AM

Prospero:
Unless I am mistaken, Estonia is the only piano company that has a concert pianist in charge of operations.

I believe that Mr Paolo Fazioli, as well as being an engineer, also holds a piano performance diploma from an Italian music conservatory (Milan, if I recall correctly).

-Michael B.
Posted by: Sir Lurksalot

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/20/07 10:46 AM

Piano retailing is generally organized by territory. So it’s normal to expect only one dealership per city for a given brand.

Estonia pianos are more expensive than the other models you mentioned primarily because their materials and manufacturing methods are consistent with the top level of piano manufacturing. This is sometimes called “performance” grade. Less expensive pianos typically cut some corners in materials and craftsmanship in order to be more affordable for the average consumer or beginning player.
Posted by: jollyroger

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/20/07 10:57 AM

I think there's only one place to purchase Estonia's here in Houston. But having read some threads here lately, it appears this particilar retailer is having some problems. So, take heed.
Good luck,
Roger
Posted by: Prospero

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/20/07 06:59 PM

Thanks PosTe for the heads up on Fazioli.

I have been checking into the prices of a new Estonia in Satin Black 5' 6".

I went to a retailer who was asking $29,000 for his.

After about five minutes of chatting, he offered it to me for $24,000.

Of course Estonia makes some remarkably beautiful cabinetry. My favorite is the "Hidden Beauty." I think many people underestimate the importance of looks: a grand piano will be an enormous piece of furniture smack dab in the middle of your home. It will be there for years. You want to like its look, believe me.

The dealer was asking $33,000 for the 5' 6" Hidden Beauty. After brief negotiation, he offered it to me for $27,500.

I must admit, I was tempted. Well, a little bit. I do like my Steinway.

Hope this helps.
Posted by: Prospero

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/22/07 04:10 AM

For an even better price on an Estonia, this might be helpful also:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Estonia-Model-190-in...VQQcmdZViewItem

I believe the seller is a Piano World member who posts here occasionally? Someone page him.

Hmmm...maybe I should snap up that piano...but it was manufactured in 2000, and I do not know what the company was like back then. Does it have Renner action etc. like the new ones? I do not know. Maybe the seller could help with information.

This page might be of interest to you--Van Cliburn and Richter and Arrau and others have praised the Estonia concert grands:

http://www.chicagopianos.com/famousquotesestonia.htm

Here is an interesting web page on Estonia pianos which may contain some exaggeration: \:\)

http://www.chicagopianos.com/estonia.htm
Posted by: Paulwbenn

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/22/07 11:58 AM

You might consider calling Kraig Gilliam with Peter Collora Pianos in Denton, just north of Dallas. They are Estonia dealers with a nice selection and are wonderful to deal with.
Posted by: SCCDoug

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/22/07 02:04 PM

 Quote:
This page might be of interest to you--Van Cliburn and Richter and Arrau and others have praised the Estonia concert grands:
These pages of 'praises' for pianos are always somewhat suspect to me. For example Richter owned Steinways, and most famously switched to Yamaha in the 70s - so does that make Yamaha a better piano than the praised Estonia? Add in that he has been dead for ten years and the relevance of the quote to today's instruments is at best questionable. And for what it's worth, van Cliburn is most definitely a Steinway artist.
Posted by: Prospero

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/22/07 06:05 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by SCCDoug:
 Quote:
This page might be of interest to you--Van Cliburn and Richter and Arrau and others have praised the Estonia concert grands:
These pages of 'praises' for pianos are always somewhat suspect to me. For example Richter owned Steinways, and most famously switched to Yamaha in the 70s - so does that make Yamaha a better piano than the praised Estonia? Add in that he has been dead for ten years and the relevance of the quote to today's instruments is at best questionable. And for what it's worth, van Cliburn is most definitely a Steinway artist. [/b]
I agree with you that the praise is to be taken with a grain of salt--I did not mean to imply otherwise--but their praise shows that our own humble judgment has received some measure of confirmation from on high.

The Estonias that I have played were very pleasing to me. I think Estonia pianos are a great buy right now, and I expect the price to rise in upcoming years.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/22/07 10:05 PM

While the references to Richter, Van Cliburn,Arrau and others may all be interesting enough from a historic point of view, what counts IMHO is the most recent and quite generous praise that has been heaved onto this piano by its many new owners.

At the end of 2007 this piano, at least for us, is well sold out ahead of time for several months in 2008 already.

In this day and age, this certainly should speak for itself....

Now, what was the name of these fine gentlemen above again?

Norbert ;\)
Posted by: swampwiz

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/22/07 10:41 PM

The Estonia is a very refined piano, and I would say that you are a wealthy man or a professional piano player, that the Estonia, Schimmel or Shigeru Kawau should be the the most expensive pianos to consider.

The problem with buying an Estonia is that it is now the chic brand, and coupled with the fact that the factory is low volume, dealers are generally not in a dealing mood.
Posted by: seebechstein

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/23/07 04:18 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Prospero:
More than once, I have played an Estonia grand and wondered if it was better than a comparably-sized Steinway. [/b]
I have often wondered this too!
Posted by: SCCDoug

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/23/07 06:11 PM

Please note my comment was not meant to be interereted negatively towards Estonias - I am convinced they are fine pianos. It is just that I don't think there is typically a lot of value in the recommendations of concert artists frequently quoted by almost all manufacturers. There is only one artist's opinion that matters - yours.
Posted by: BruceD

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/24/07 10:03 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by SCCDoug:
Please note my comment was not meant to be interereted negatively towards Estonias - I am convinced they are fine pianos. It is just that I don't think there is typically a lot of value in the recommendations of concert artists frequently quoted by almost all manufacturers. There is only one artist's opinion that matters - yours. [/b]
I agree with SCCDoug and with others who state that artists' testimonials for pianos have to be taken with a grain of salt. If I am not mistaken the testimonials for Estonia from Van Cliburn, Richter, Arrau et al have been around for some time in Estonia publications and on their website, and they really have little bearing on the quality of recently manufactured Estonia pianos. After all, Arrau died in 1991 and we all know that the Estonia pianos of that era are a totally different instrument from those of today. Indeed, the Estonia pianos from the early '90s, long before the "Laul era" were considered quite inconsistent in quality if not inferior.

I think that Estonia is not really doing too much of a good service to its line of pianos in light of the advances made in their pianos in the last view years compared against the "vintage" of these testimonials.

Apart from my own complete satisfaction with my Estonia 190, the best testimonial I have had for it - among three "raves" from techs who have examined it - came from one who had just finished tuning it : "I envy you being able to sit down and play this piano; I wish I were going home to your Estonia."

Regards,
Posted by: teachum

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/25/07 06:25 PM

The ebay listing is a 2000 model. It is not going to be the same piano yourdaughter has been playing. A lot of changes have been made since then.

Estonia 190 and 169 are marvelous pianos. I have a 2004 190 and it just gets better and better.
Posted by: akuyek

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/28/07 01:58 AM

khnguyen,

Reading your story reminded me of how my 11yrs old daughter just made a straight dash to a 6'3 Estonia - without even looking at others bigger brands although I did half-forced her to play on those. Here's the link if you are interested
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/14633.html

I think it would be worth your consideration to do whatever avail within your capacity to get that 'particular one' your daughter fell in love with. It will very rewarding for both short and long term.

Just bear in mind you are making a decision on something where she will be spending time everyday for a couple of hours ... and you will be listening or may be even playing on it, perhaps also for couple of hours everyday .... that made a heck lot of hours over the years, so it better be something you can live with and appreciate day after day.


Best of luck on your search and decision,
Akuyek
Posted by: Janet R B

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/28/07 02:58 AM

Hi Khnguyen,
My husband and I just bought a grand. My decision was between an Estonia and a Mason & Hamlin. I chose the M&H because it has a more "American" sound which I liked better. I very much enjoyed the Estonia though and they are beautiful, especially the Hidden Beauty model. Estonias are handmade pianos, built in Europe, and I think they only build about 300 pianos a year so it is hard for the dealer to even get them. They are also very highly rated which adds to their value.

My husband, Paulwbenn, posted earlier suggesting that you talk to Kraig at Peter Collora Pianos in Denton, Texas. I agree with suggestion. Kraig isn't giving them away but he will give you a good price. He gave us a very good price on our M&H and I'd say it's definitely worth talking to him. They had a 5'4" (I think) Hidden Beauty, a slightly larger shiny mahogany and a 5'8" or 10" black satin. All were lovely. Black satin is the least expensive finish but because the pianos are all different sizes at this store the price went up based on size. The price that you mentioned sounds like the retail price but they will probably make you a better deal.

Here's another piano you might be interested in looking at, especially if you decide to make the drive to Denton/Dallas.
http://dallas.craigslist.org/msg/451763158.html
It's a 2001 Estonia in black satin being sold by an individual for $15K. It's in excellent condition, has been tuned annually and is a beautiful instrument. I played it and it is very nice. If the link doesn't work go to www.craigslist.com, select Dallas and search for ESTONIA PIANO. It should come up. The piano has had one owner and is owned by a young lady who purchased it new. She married last year and they are running out of room so she decided to sell her beloved piano. I think she has access to a couple of other pianos so she won't be without but she does love this piano and wants it to go to a good home.
Posted by: Janet R B

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/28/07 02:59 AM

ps. If you go see the $15K 2001 Estonia, tell them that Janet and Paul sent you. I think they will remember us.
Posted by: teachum

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/28/07 03:56 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by seebechstein:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Prospero:
More than once, I have played an Estonia grand and wondered if it was better than a comparably-sized Steinway. [/b]
I have often wondered this too! [/b]
:D I have compared my 190 with more than one A, and O and a B and even my husband's uneducated ears always prefer my Estonia. I'm just saying....and of course there's no price comparison whatsoever!
Posted by: gryphon

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/28/07 05:39 PM

Wow, that craigslist Estonia has the old lyre logo that a certain competitor forced them to stop using. Are you sure it is a 2001 instrument?
Posted by: Hoaglie

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/28/07 06:31 PM

Quote from Norbert-- "quite generous praise that has been heaved onto this piano by its many new owners."
Know what you mean. Drinking at neighbor's party the other night and dang near heaved on one myself. Think it was ebony 190, luckily made it to fireplace. At the time, hostess' sister or other kinfolk was playing Claire de Lune or whatever she'd learnt that week at music school and generally overestimating her ability. Finally got cleaned up and redeemed myself somewhat with rousing performance of Carry Me Back to Old Virginny in C minor. It was funny that nobody clapped, but I thought Estonia sounded dang near mythical. Then, as I recall, wife had them carry me back home.
Posted by: Mark...

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/28/07 07:21 PM

Note to self: Don't invite Hoaglie to parties... \:D
Posted by: seebechstein

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/28/07 10:00 PM

If you comparison-shop the Estonia against the other Tier 1 instruments (Bluthner, Bosendorfer, etc.) you'll change your question to "why are these Estonias so INexpensive?"
Posted by: Janet R B

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/28/07 11:36 PM

Gryphon, they told us it was built in 2001. I'm not sure if she bought it in 01 or 02 but she said it was built in 01.
Posted by: gryphon

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/29/07 12:43 AM

I'd want to know the serial number of this piano.
Posted by: Janet R B

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/29/07 01:00 AM

The 2001 Estonia was purchased from Brook Mays, a reputable dealer in Dallas, who has since gone out of business. I didn't have any reason to think that the piano might be questionable. I'm sure they would give you the serial number if you contact them. Very nice couple.
Posted by: gryphon

Re: Estonia grand piano - 11/29/07 10:51 PM

I already have an Estonia. But if I were in the market to buy that one I'd want to verify its real build date.
Posted by: Clockwiser

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/05/09 05:16 PM

I have 2 questions,

1. Are Estonia Grand Pianos available in the UK new? If so, where and what are the prices?

2. Are there other piano makers similar to Estonia who produce good pianos at good value for money?

Thanks!
Posted by: scepticalforumguy

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/05/09 05:30 PM

Answer to #2: Bohemia (a subsidiary of Bechstein, I believe) and Petrof come to mind. Both sound great and should be within range of the Estonias.

It really depends on how much the Estonias are selling for these days, because the more they raise their prices the more competition they have.

Good pianos at good value for the money: Most Chinese pianos would be in this category.

Great pianos at great value for the money: That depends on your definition of great, and what is most important to you.

Go play some pianos first without getting too much advice about what should sound good to you. If you are a beginner you have a huge choice of pianos. If you are an advanced player, you should just trust yourself and not second guess your findings based on what you read here, including my comments.
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/05/09 06:34 PM

Clockwiser,

The only Uk dealer I know who sells Estonai is Besbrode pianos in Leeds:

http://www.besbrodepianos.co.uk/showroom/showroom353.htm ; this is a real bargain; probably closing out of a stock piano.

 Quote:
It really depends on how much the Estonias are selling for these days, because the more they raise their prices the more competition they have
Typical new MRSPs in Europe are:
168: € 20500,- and 190: € 25400,-
Discounts are at the discretion of the dealer but far less than in the US were then the MRSP is higher.
Price increase were rather moderate over the past two years (max. 3% typical)

On the European continent you will find only few dealers too. I know of a couple in Germany and one in Belgium.

Would importing a 190 from Belgium be an option, I know of a really favourable priced new stock clearance instrument. If interested send me a PM.

schwammerl.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 02:35 AM

One thing we have observed for a long time with Estonia is that it 'clicks' with people either real fast - or it doesn't click at all.

Despite the emergence of quite incredible pianos coming from China these days - I'm thinking of the 7' variety of new grands by Hailun and Brodmann here - someone in our store just played a new 5'6 Estonia and was completely taken by it.

This was a person *only* interested in about 7' grands or larger...

One of our most recent customers for a 190 Estonia returned a brand new Steinway B he had just purchased a short while before.

Others have preferred it to Fazioli and some of our own top German brands.

Estonia doesn't seem to need a *reason* or justification - it seems to be found and adopted by players as if an inner clock was ticking between them in almost pre-arranged syncrony...

To be honest, this sometimes happens without any obvious "reason" and has often taken us by complete surprise.

Could it be that this is one piano that chooses its new owner as much as it is being chosen itself?

Norbert
Posted by: whippen boy

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 03:20 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
Estonia doesn't seem to need a *reason* or justification - it seems to be found and adopted by players as if an inner clock was ticking between them in almost pre-arranged syncrony...


 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
Could it be that this is one piano that chooses its new owner as much as it is being chosen itself?
Norbert, have you ever considered writing science fiction? \:D
Posted by: apple*

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 03:57 AM

they have a unique resonance .. it sounds for a while longer yet is very manipulatible. i sure like it..
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 06:44 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
One thing we have observed for a long time with Estonia is that it 'clicks' with people either real fast - or it doesn't click at all.

Despite the emergence of quite incredible pianos coming from China these days - I'm thinking of the 7' variety of new grands by Hailun and Brodmann here - someone in our store just played a new 5'6 Estonia and was completely taken by it.

This was a person *only* interested in about 7' grands or larger...

One of our most recent customers for a 190 Estonia returned a brand new Steinway B he had just purchased a short while before.

Others have preferred it to Fazioli and some of our own top German brands.

Estonia doesn't seem to need a *reason* or justification - it seems to be found and adopted by players as if an inner clock was ticking between them in almost pre-arranged syncrony...

To be honest, this sometimes happens without any obvious "reason" and has often taken us by complete surprise.

Could it be that this is one piano that chooses its new owner as much as it is being chosen itself?

Norbert [/b]
Dealer hype.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 11:54 AM

 Quote:
Dealer hype.
That would be an easy explanation.

But the countless new owners of this piano could not all have been complete idiots and my own magic and imagination in this business only goes so far.

As opposed to yours.....

Norbert
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 12:00 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
 Quote:
Dealer hype.
That would be an easy explanation.

But the countless new owners of this piano could not all have been complete idiots and my own magic and imagination in this business only goes so far.

As opposed to yours.....

Norbert [/b]
My comment has nothing to do with my opinion of the quality of Estonias(or the Hailuns or Brodmans you mention although they are not the topic of this thread). I happen to like Estonias a lot. My post is about the appropriateness of your post.
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 12:59 PM

 Quote:
My post is about the appropriateness of your post.
That is a bit the weirdness of this forum.

If a non-dealer member, after having played pianos A, B and C, testifies he prefers A to B and certainly to C, then this is appreciated as an interesting comment.

If however a dealer testifies of some customers who preferred A to B and to C, then this is seen as nonsense and hype.

Who is able to prove that one is more reliable than the other?

schwammerl.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 01:31 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by schwammerl:
 Quote:
My post is about the appropriateness of your post.
That is a bit the weirdness of this forum.

If a non-dealer member, after having played pianos A, B and C, testifies he prefers A to B and certainly to C, then this is appreciated as an interesting comment.

If however a dealer testifies of some customers who preferred A to B and to C, then this is seen as nonsense and hype.

Who is able to prove that one is more reliable than the other?

schwammerl. [/b]
It's not a question of reliability. It's a question of dealer self promotion and the rules of this forum(and the number of times some delears self promote).

What could be more blatant than promoting Hailun and Brodmann in a thread about Estonias?
Posted by: birchy

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 01:46 PM

Promotion says call me and I'll give you a deal. Enthusiasm for what is going on in the marketplace including one's own does not stick a finger in anyone else's eye, so I really can't understand your continuing targeting of one or two people.

The topic of the thread is Estonia? As I read it, Norbert's initial comments addressed directly the response real live people have to Estonia - they love its unique character or it doesn't do much for them.

A related response is how visitors react to the tone and performance of the other pianos sitting in his showroom. So he wrote:

 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
Despite the emergence of quite incredible pianos coming from China these days - I'm thinking of the 7' variety of new grands by Hailun and Brodmann here - someone in our store just played a new 5'6 Estonia and was completely taken by it.

This was a person *only* interested in about 7' grands or larger...

[/b]
(emphasis mine)

So he was showing that beyond any industry-wide "hype" about his Chinese brands, for some people the Estonia continues to have a tremendous personal appeal.

T-dot is right. If an individual is allowed to say "I love my piano" then why is it offensive when a dealer reports "some people really love this piano"? If it is true in one case, it is true in the other.

Or perhaps truth is not a defense for "crimes" such as this...
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 01:52 PM

 Quote:
What could be more blatant than promoting Hailun and Brodmann in a thread about Estonias?
Well perhaps if you cannot stand when this is said by a dealer.

However I am not afraid to say that if one is on some more tight budget, considering a Wendl & Lung (partner Hailun factory) is not all that blatant.

Biased? Probably.
Related to the piano business? Not at all.

schwammerl.
Posted by: birchy

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 02:01 PM

And I should correct myself that it was Schwammerl who made the point, not T-dot.

(Hi by the way \:\) )
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 02:21 PM

 Quote:


If an individual is allowed to say "I love my piano" then why is it offensive when a dealer reports "some people really love this piano"? If it is true in one case, it is true in the other.

Or perhaps truth is not a defense for "crimes" such as this... [/QB]
It's not a question of truth(whether the statement was made by a customer of Norbert). Is it not true that when a dealer mentions a customer's favorable comments/reactions about a piano he sells it's self promotion?
That kind of statement belongs on the delaers website(where delears often post "testimonials") or the Estonia forum.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 02:39 PM

Plover,

I really enjoyed this recent post of yours.

 Quote:
Yes. Norbert has been secretly rebuilding Avantgardenabi's beloved Knabe and meanwhile Pianoloverus has lent his BB to AGN whose has painted it white because he wants to rent it to Melody7 who has decided she really wants a rosewood Boesendorfer like SHpiano who has unknown to anyone else traded her Bluthner for three of Pianomadam's Essexes but at the last minute Pianomadam installed Boesendorfer player system in one of the Essexes which angered Ori who contacted Rich Galassini who said "your piano may not sing, but I sure can."

Since Pianoloverus has no piano now he has asked Norbert for a Stanwoodized/Wapinized Hailun vertical in jacaranda finish with fourth pedal, ice cream cone legs, full damp chaser, fallboard name changed to Estonia, tunable front and rear duplexes, string cover made by Kenny, and underlid in lieu of an advertising fee. Norbert has...
Do you think you could add a little dose of that humor into these moderating posts of yours where you expound on what dealers should and should not do?

It's apparent you won't be changing your opinions, but how about a more light-hearted approach?
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 02:57 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
Plover,

Do you think you could add a little dose of that humor into these moderating posts of yours where you expound on what dealers should and should not do?
[/b]
Glad you liked that post. It's not just my opinion of what dealers should and should not do. It's in the forum rules.
Posted by: ftp

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 05:42 PM

Norbert

Are you selling that Steinway B that you received for the Estonia 190? What's it going for?
Posted by: mdsdurango

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 06:59 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by whippen boy:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
Estonia doesn't seem to need a *reason* or justification - it seems to be found and adopted by players as if an inner clock was ticking between them in almost pre-arranged syncrony...


 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
Could it be that this is one piano that chooses its new owner as much as it is being chosen itself?
Norbert, have you ever considered writing science fiction? \:D [/b]
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 07:52 PM

 Quote:
Norbert

Are you selling that Steinway B that you received for the Estonia 190? What's it going for?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, the owners reportedly returned piano to dealer.

Norbert
Posted by: cscl

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 10:31 PM

When I started off my piano search, I'd never heard of Estonia pianos, but tried them out along with Yamahas (my initial preference), Kawais, and Bostons, and then the more I learned, the more I was ineluctably drawn to the Estonia. 1.5 years later I'm all the more happy for my purchase and even visited the factory where it was made in Tallinn.

If there's Estonia kool-aid out there, then I've drunk from the super-sized cup. What Norbert says may be dealer hype, but I have to say it's accurate as well! So many things clicked with this piano and have continued to click with ownership.
Posted by: ChatNoir

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/06/09 11:32 PM

Amen!
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/07/09 12:26 AM

What some consider 'dealer hype' may be simply attention given to undervalued stock by others.

There is a difference in hyping things if this are done in isolation of other forces within industry - endless rows of enthusiastic customers being the most important indicator with people like Larry Fine running a not-to-distant second.

If Larry Fine sees fit to continuously upgrade his ratings of certain pianos such as Estonia as he has done vigorously over the years - 'hyping' by those whose simple crime was being 'ahead of time' - and had the courage to say so - needs to be seen in a somewhat different light.

If it does make cetain folks here feel better: "pleading guilty".

Meantime: *stay tuned*.

Norbert \:o
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Estonia grand piano - 02/07/09 03:00 AM

Below is an interesting article on "over-hypin your brand" also called "putting lipstick on a pig":

http://www.google.com/search?hl=nl&lr=&rlz=1T4GGLG_enBE307BE307&q=hyping+in+marketing&start=10&sa=N

After I've read it I concluded noe of the pitfalls apply to Estonia Pianos for the moment, i.e.
* no rapid excessive line extensions
* no feature creeping
* lack of budget for product develompment not compensated by lot of advertsing
* and the brand doesn't show up in the wrong places

Does some of this apply to other brands?

You will be the judge.

schwammerl.