Hailun pianos

Posted by: sweetkeys

Hailun pianos - 02/10/08 05:16 PM

I am currently considering purchasing a Hailun 48" upright (Model H-1E). I know little is know about these pianos as of yet, but I am very pleased with the touch and the sound, particularly for the price. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these pianos and if you thought that $3100 was a good price for this instrument (I believe it is a very good price, but again, no experience with this piano).
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/10/08 05:23 PM

Assuming the piano is new with full warranty, I think your opinion of the piano and the price are both correct.
Posted by: sweetkeys

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/10/08 05:33 PM

Yes, brand new with 15 year warranty.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/10/08 07:10 PM

Well it sounds good to me, both the piano and the price, but I'm just a consumer like you and an admitted fan of Hailun. Since the loyal opposition isn't jumping in here \:D , you could enter Hailun in the search function above. There's quite a bit to read, almost all of it favorable.

Here's what a couple of industry members had to say about Hailun's products after seeing them at NAMM.

from Craigen
 Quote:
I spent some time in the Hailun booth. I played nearly ever instrument there. IMO they are the best playing sounding of all the Chinese instruments.
from Jeff Bauer
 Quote:
I was pretty surprised by the continued increase in quality with the various Chinese pianos available. Hailun was, in my opinion, the most remarkable of the bunch. When I look at these, and ask myself 'would I buy this for my own use'?, I was surprised at my own answer.
As far as I know, neither Craigen nor Jeff sell Hailun pianos.
Posted by: sweetkeys

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/10/08 08:50 PM

Thanks. I appreciate the opinions.
Posted by: swampwiz

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 02:11 AM

Hailun seems to be amongst the best of the Chinese. Of course, there are longevity and resale value issues, but with a piano this cheap, you can throw it away in 15 years and still come out ahead.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 10:14 AM

 Quote:
Hailun seems to be amongst the best of the Chinese.
Have we seen, heard, or played one yet, or is this based on our thoughtful ordering of the 'lower Asians'?

 Quote:
Of course, there are longevity and resale value issues
But of course. Do we know someone whose Hailun has gotten prematurely old or simply worn out? Have we tried to sell a used one? Do we know someone who has tried to sell a used one? Why would anyone on earth want a used Hailun?

 Quote:
, but with a piano this cheap, you can throw it away in 15 years and still come out ahead.
Curbside pickup...or just toss in the nearest dumpster?
Posted by: M&B

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 04:45 PM

sweetkeys:
I'll give you something to think about.
Must of us in this Forum are piano dealers.
Chinese pianos are available in 90% of all piano retailers. Everybody is in the same boat that's why nobody tells you the truth.
Why? Because is easier to sell a cheap piano to an uneducated costumer. In other words because they can take the line of less resistance and still make some good margin.
It is harder to sell a quality product. Why? takes more knowledge and it is also harder for the buyer to justify expending the extra amout of money because they can't see the immediate benefit.
Craigen or Jeff Bauer wouldn't buy ANY of these pianos for their own personal use.
You'll probably buy one piano for the next ten years, buy a quality piano. You wouldn't be sorry.
Rent a piano and get a rental credit later. Only if you cannot afford a quality instrument now.
Good luck.
Posted by: sweetkeys

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 06:01 PM

I ended up purchasing a Hailun. I was very happy with my experience with it and I have a very tight budget and believe that my salesman truly was trying to make sure I had the best piano for my buck (he also sells used pianos). I'll let you know how it goes!
Posted by: BradKY

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 06:04 PM

Hailun, Hailun, Oh yes I was the one that has one of those! Thanks to you guys \:\) I Just recently got the internet back from along waiting period to get broadband. I am very happy with my Hailun piano, It has kept tune VERY well. Could just be because the famous Sally Phillips tuned my piano ;\) . But I have to give them A+ I love it and my a piano friend Guru wants to come over everyday to practice his music.

Thanks
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 06:07 PM

Hey M&B,

I knew it was only a matter of time until the loyal opposition arrived here. \:\)

Two questions for you

(1) Could you share with us your minimum pricepoint for a new piano shopper to obtain what you refer to as a 'quality product'? Perhaps you could supply a couple of specific piano examples to illustrate the threshold of 'quality'.

(2) Are you saying that all the pianos from China are equal, that there are no better than average, average, or less than average pianos from China? I think I recall you saying that you in fact stock a line from China. Is there any particular reason you chose that line or was it random because one's as bad as the next?
Posted by: M&B

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 07:10 PM

Sure! IMO the average price range to get a decent upright starts at $6,000.00

I had several lines of Chinese stuff, every year I've changed. Palatino, Samick, Story&Clark, Hardman, etc. Perhaps you can prep them and one is better than the other but in the long run they all boxes with keys. Including the K-15 and K-2.
Plus also when you sell good stuff you don't have to lie and spin. You know! German this, German that, Scale design by Mr. BJstein. etc.
But I'm preaching to the choir. Who is going to really ask for Hailun? \:D I realized sweetkeys is a phony that came here to put the name of Hailun out there. Just like they do with the Brodmann.
Posted by: M&B

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 07:38 PM

By the way Turandot I guess Craigen let you down in this thread.
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/21057.html#000007

OH! Probably he forgot about Hailun \:D
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 08:16 PM

My goodness, M&B. I thought I was an avid reader. It seems you have discovered that the roots of sweetkeys' Hailun interest run deep.

So let me get this straight. Sweetkeys is a dealer selling Hailun who has gone undercover posing as a customer who wants to buy a Hailun.

M&B is a dealer who has gone undercover in terms of exact industry affiliation to fight against the corruption and greed of fellow retailers.

Craigen is a tech who is pandering to the evil dealer establishment.

Jeff Bauer is a dealer who wishes to endorse Hailun so that he can sell fewer of his own T118 inventory.

Have I got it right?
Am I the only one not in costume? \:D

Anyway, thanks for your answer to the question about pricepoint. I guess you're thinking U1 and K3. Is that about it would you say?
\:\)
Posted by: M&B

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 08:51 PM

Wait a second! I just brought up Jeff and Craigen because YOU quoted them in order to support your opinion about Hailun.
Look man! I don't post for the people of the forum to love me. For love I have a beautiful wife and kids.
I say it how it is.
If Jeff like the development in Chinese pianos, I simply don't care.

--------This section of the thread has been deleted as requested by Craigen and the moderator----------------------------------------

In regard to the K-3 and U-1. IMO the K-3 is a good value and the Yamaha U-1 is a slightly better built. Ha! but not much! ;\)

The K-5 is what I'll call a solid reasonably priced piano.

I believe you are not in the industry so I'll take my time to spell it for you. I personally know Reps. and dealers who had told me they come here with phony names just to create some hype of their product. I don't think you are that naive.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 09:36 PM

 Quote:
Wait a second! I just brought up Jeff and Craigen because YOU quoted them in order to support your opinion about Hailun.
Look man! I don't post for the people of the forum to love me. For love I have a beautiful wife and kids.
I say it how it is.
I quoted Jeff and Craigen because no one was responding to sweetkeys except me. I think everyone else was busy posting under pseudonyms or entering new identities in the member base. \:D

Don't get in a lather M&B. Personally I enjoy your posts. I don't know if you say it how it is, but you sure as hell say it how you think it is, and you leave no room for misinterpretation. \:D

Let me draw you out a little more about these pianos at the threshold of 'quality'. You've established Yamaha and Kawai models that meet your standards. How 'bout them Petrof's? Worth it for a retailer to hang with them through the tough times? Worthy of consumer consideration alongside the Yamaha's and Kawai's you mentioned?
Posted by: sweetkeys

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 09:52 PM

FYI, I am no phony. I am a twenty-something mother of 2 with a bachelor's degree in music, emphasis in piano performance. I also teach as well as play. I personally am excited about this piano. Sorry I don't have the money to dish out on a "quality" piano. Guess I figured there are more important things in life.
Posted by: Craigen

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 10:24 PM

I have reported M&B's repeated personal attacks to the moderator.

I never mind taking heat for my opinions and am not shy about criticism. I give as well as I get. I will not tollerate personal attacks that have nothing to do with the argument.

I have been tapping into this forum since 2005. In all those months I have averaged 43 posts per month. There are several working techs, that frequent this forum, that are more frequent posters who maintain viable businesses.

M&B shows that he is a dealer for Kawai. How proud they must be to read he equates their K15 and K2 with the Chinese pianos as a "box with keys." Prouder still for them to read his opinion that the Yamaha U1 is "better built" than the Kawai K3.

My comments regarding Hailun were that they were the best playing, best sounding of the Chinese pianos. I still stand by the statement. I do not find it contradictory to any other I have made on this forum. I have never worked on a Hailun and have no experience with their serviceability or durability. I never recommended them to anyone. I never said I would own one either.
Posted by: diinin

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 10:35 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by sweetkeys:
I personally am excited about this piano. Sorry I don't have the money to dish out on a "quality" piano. Guess I figured there are more important things in life. [/b]
Sweetkeys, don't listen to the criticism above. You now HAVE a quality piano. I would love to find a Hailun upright to try--have played their 5'10" grand, and it was really, really nice. Better than name brand grands at twice the price.

You no longer have to spend a fortune to get a great piano.

Congrats on your new addition! \:\)
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 11:10 PM

As best I can remember, all sweetkeys did was ask for an opinion of a specfic Hailun piano at a specific price. That opinion should be the same whatever sweetkey's identity is. The opinion asked was of the piano, not the poster. If the paranoia among dealers here has reached the extremes that M&B describes. that's a completely different matter than Hailun's pianos.

Hailun sits very low on the totem pole of makers who make extravagant claims about their products. Its pianos also bear the maker's name on the fallboard. There's no phony German heritage in play. If the truth is told, I'm sure that Hailun sells more parts to non-Chinese makers than they buy from non-Chinese makers.

If a U1 were the same price as a Hailun 48", U1 might clobber Hailun in the marketplace. But then again, it might not. But the fact is a U1 is twice the price. The difference in price can be a significant consideration for a lot of people.

If piano retail cannot get behind its entry-level products and adopt what Journey has referred to as a 'pull' strategy that attracts first-time buyers, insisting instead on pushing itself down their throats relegating them to digitals or used pianos, it won't matter whether sweetkeys is a consumer or a retailer.
Posted by: Piano Peddler

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/11/08 11:22 PM

Posted by: PSS

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/12/08 12:38 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by sweetkeys:
I ended up purchasing a Hailun. I was very happy with my experience with it and I have a very tight budget and believe that my salesman truly was trying to make sure I had the best piano for my buck (he also sells used pianos). I'll let you know how it goes! [/b]
Sweetkeys,
Congrats on the new piano! I know some of the people at Hailun, and also have played the pianos myself. You made a great decision!!

I hope you have many years of enjoyment!
Posted by: sweetkeys

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/12/08 09:01 AM

Thank you everyone for your support! I am looking forward to getting my baby tuned so I can really test it out!
Posted by: M&B

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/12/08 12:12 PM

 Quote:
Thank you everyone for your support! I am looking forward to getting my baby tuned so I can really test it out! [/b]
Ok I don't get it! Was it in tune at the show-room or not? or Didn't you test it out at the store? You probably should've tested before buying it. \:D

Just kidding! Don't mind me. If you are not a phony enjoy your piano
Posted by: dreamtime

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/12/08 02:39 PM

Regarding the pricing of your new Hailun, the retail price they sell the H1 in China for is $3,202.45 according to today's currency conversion rate. You can see it at the link below.

http://www.hailunpiano.com/class.asp?lx=small&anid=32&nid=264

This is also their new line. So you got the latest and greatest from Hailun. And yes, I'm jealous. As I've been trying to figure out how to get one here in Thailand. Looks like I will have to import it myself. Which I am working on at the moment. How about sending in some photos of it? I'd like to see! Thanks.

Enjoy!

Stephen
Posted by: sweetkeys

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/12/08 04:27 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by M&B:
 Quote:
Thank you everyone for your support! I am looking forward to getting my baby tuned so I can really test it out! [/b]
Ok I don't get it! Was it in tune at the show-room or not? or Didn't you test it out at the store? You probably should've tested before buying it. \:D

Just kidding! Don't mind me. If you are not a phony enjoy your piano [/b]
Call me crazy, but last I checked, moving a piano more than 70 miles in the cold with other stops to deliver other pianos might just have an effect on the tuning.
Posted by: mikhailoh

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/12/08 05:25 PM

Probably not if it is wrapped well. It just as likely not going to be tuned yet anyway.
Posted by: Rickster

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/12/08 05:34 PM

Hi Sweetkeys,

Congratulations on your new piano! I second the motion about posting pictures!

On another note, you’ve gotten a good taste of what the PW forums can be like. PW is educational, entertaining and fun, and it is a real asset to the piano buying (and playing \:D ) public; however, it can get a little contentious at times .

The piano business must be a really intensely competitive business to make some in the business so rude and abrasive unless you buy a piano from them. Oh yea, I forgot that some of them really don’t care if you love them or not; they have someone else to do that.

Enjoy you new Hailun!

Best regards,

Rickster
Posted by: Dave_E

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/12/08 07:16 PM

The "Piano Book" (best investment so far in my quest to spend lots of $ on a new piano), has the Hailun in group 4C... Which as already mentioned is not very high on the pole.

Interesting reading for a piano owner / adult beginner player / future NEW piano owner. Almost like... there's more to just owning a piano or wanting to for the pure personal enjoyment. I see "status symbols" about in the shape of pianos, I sense "class status" and the like.

Here's my spin. I'm 51 year old, will spend up to $10K on a new vertical (no room for a grand) on ANY model or make that appeals to MY eyes, MY ears and My fingertips.

Dave
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/12/08 08:58 PM

from Dave E
 Quote:
The "Piano Book" (best investment so far in my quest to spend lots of $ on a new piano), has the Hailun in group 4C... Which as already mentioned is not very high on the pole.
Well I was the one who made the reference to Hailun sitting low on the totem pole, but I was speaking of low in a good sense, low in hyping up phony German heritage through an acquired stencil name and marketing sleight of hand. I think if you were to play a Hailun, you might actually disagree with Fine's very low rating, same would be true of a Steigerman premium which is a member of the Hailun family as well.

When you mention up to 10k and not based on status or class, I think you might want to try a Seiler 122. The list price is far over your 10k figure, but I think on the West Coast you could easily buy one for under it. Seiler verticals have a neutral tone and a very responsive action.
Posted by: swampwiz

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/13/08 12:02 AM

I had no idea that Hailun was the bottom of the barrel. I had always thought that since [Hailun is] a brother brand of Steigerman, that it was rated higher. [edited]

It would seem that although the Hailun may sound OK, obviously Larry Fine has determined that there are some serious issues that make it a low quality instrument.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/13/08 12:17 AM

 Quote:
Here's my spin. I'm 51 year old, will spend up to $10K on a new vertical (no room for a grand) on ANY model or make that appeals to MY eyes, MY ears and My fingertips.
You don't have to go that high.

There's really excellent uprights in the 6-8 k range out there.

We sell them all the time.

So do others....

Norbert \:o
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/13/08 12:26 AM

Wiz,

You need to read the Fine text as well as the ratings. The Hailun family of pianos has no connection to DongBei. They are made by Chen Hailun. You're right in associating them with the Steigerman Premiums. Those Steigermans are built by Hailun on a contract basis.

Probably the easiest explanation of Fine's rating is that information was sketchy. Hailun has only begun to put together a dealer network in the past year or so. Until then their pianos were only seen in the US under the Steigerman name and for a very brief time as Wendl&Lung in the Chicago area.

If your travels take you near a Hailun dealer, you really ought to try one, or two, or three. You may like them, maybe not. But at least you will have your own opinion. http://www.hailunusa.com/main.shtml
Posted by: Rod Verhnjak

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/13/08 12:38 AM

Dave,

Have you visited the Fandrichs?
Posted by: sweetkeys

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/13/08 10:47 AM

No pictures yet. My camera is in another state (oops!) But the more I play it, the more I love it! This is a piano that you truly should reserve placing any judgement upon until you play it. It is a great piano for the buck!
Posted by: M&B

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/13/08 02:10 PM

No pictures yet? :rolleyes:

Just run to one of your customer's home (if you had sold one yet) ask them to let you take a picture. \:D
Posted by: Dave_E

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 12:13 AM

No Ron, but I talked to the Mrs. last week. She put me on to a good mover to get the giant Shaff Bro from the garage to the upstairs. I spect I'll be talking to them about this piano when I get a new one later in the year.
Posted by: mikhailoh

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 06:44 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by M&B:
No pictures yet? :rolleyes:

Just run to one of your customer's home (if you had sold one yet) ask them to let you take a picture. \:D [/b]
Hmm.. I am starting to lean M&B's way.
Posted by: Rickster

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 08:00 AM

Call me gullible if you will, but I think Sweetkeys is legit. Not having a digital picture of his/her new piano readily available does not incriminate Sweetkeys.

Best regards,

Rickster
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 09:47 AM

 Quote:
M&B:
No pictures yet? Just run to one of your customer's home (if you had sold one yet) ask them to let you take a picture.
mikhailoh:
Hmm.. I am starting to lean M&B's way.
The thing is that the opinion of the brand shouldn't change whatever you think the motives of the person asking the opinion might be. Personally, I don't think that's the case with M&B. I think his dislike of pianos from China is authentic. \:D

Mik,

Do you remember the poster who said she went out and bought a Brodmann grand based on your helpful advice. That was the thread where Michael B went ballistic on the Brodmann promotional lit. FTP and I were offering a sideshow of mildly sarcastic remarks. Well, that buyer never supplied pix, and worse yet she claimed your advice sealed her deal. Now I don't know about that one! \:D

Personally, I think PW should have a member panel to investigate new piano placements in members' homes. The Wiz would obviously be on the panel to check for counterfeits. The panel might even swing by that infamous warehouse to see what the Wiz actually has stashed there.
Posted by: sweetkeys

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 01:55 PM

[img] [IMG]http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii179/jessgrahamus/IMG_0353.jpg [/img][/IMG] My piano!
Posted by: sweetkeys

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 01:59 PM

Okay, I'm having problems getting my picture on here. Any ideas?
Posted by: LisztAddict

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 02:23 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by sweetkeys:
My piano! [/b]
Congrats on your new piano!!!
I like that deep glossy finish.
Posted by: sweetkeys

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 03:29 PM

Thanks LisztAddict! How did you do that?
Posted by: Kenny Blankenship

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 03:47 PM

RE: PIANO BOOK
Please see other recent posts on PW as to why we musnt keep referring to this book as an unbiased and trusted source of piano information.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 04:12 PM

 Quote:
Do you remember the poster who said she went out and bought a Brodmann grand based on your helpful advice. That was the thread where Michael B went ballistic on the Brodmann promotional lit.
That's interesting.

We're selling these pianos as fast as they come - with and without *lit*

Bu always with *lid*.

Norbert \:D
Posted by: Rickster

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 04:29 PM

Hi Kenny,

I just noticed that you have added Hailun to your brand line-up. Doesn’t that contradict everything you’ve ever said about Chinese made pianos?

Regards,

Rickster
Posted by: PSS

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 04:32 PM

Great pianos at a great value. Some people saw this years ago, and some are just now finding out.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/14/08 04:37 PM

 Quote:
Great pianos at a great value
But that's not what people want.

Most are adoring *good* pianos of inceasingly *poor value*.....

Norbert
Posted by: dreamtime

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/15/08 08:04 AM

The reviews of the Hailun pianos at the NAMM show were good. I would go on that basis if you haven't actually played one. The great Larry Fine book may not be that up to date in regards to the latest offerings from Hailun.
Posted by: Dino_dup1

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/15/08 02:10 PM

I will chime-in here even though the topic is about Hailun Pianos, they are the factory which manufactures the Steigerman Premium line. Here are excerpts from a letter Larry Fine wrote to me regarding this matter:

 Quote:
Dear Dino:

As we discussed by phone, I did not have enough information to properly rate several piano brands that I placed in Group 4C, and I erred by rating them at all. I should have left them unrated until such time as I had enough feedback to rate them confidently. The brands in question are Hailun and the Steigerman Premium line, the latter made for Steigerman by Hailun. Both exhibit signs of being better than average quality for a Chinese piano, especially the Steigerman Premium, which has a number of impressive upgraded technical features. Although I am not willing to commit to a rating at this time, it’s possible that these brands would command a rating in the vicinity of 4A or 4B when sufficient information becomes available.

Yours truly,

Larry Fine,
Author, The Piano Book
Larry originally printed a rating in The Piano Book regarding the Steigerman pianos as he thought he was doing me a favor since the Premium line was recently introduced and that having the line mentioned in his book would give it some credence. At the time he was not aware of how a rating which is less than we would desire and less than our line deserves (in our opinion) might be used by competitors to beat-up on our brand.

I print this letter not only to defend the quality and “rating” of the Hailun and Steigerman Premium pianos but also because I think it speaks volumes about Larry’s character and integrity.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/15/08 02:44 PM

Dino:

Well said!

Some of our friendly competition will now have to backpeddle in a great hurry as this was something they constantly used against us.

Interestingly enough, our own appreciating customers for this piano always had shared a very different opionion themselves.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/15611.html

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/18399.html

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=017648;p=0&r=actu

Norbert \:o
Posted by: M&B

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/15/08 07:47 PM

Norbert,

Any person who had purchased something recently they need to reassure they made the right choice. In occasions they will reinforce their decision sometimes by writing about how satisfied they are. This is human nature. I'm sure all dealers here have similar posts or letters from their customers.
It will be more interesting to know about those who didn't like your product or yourself. Those who bought from the competition. Then we all learn something.
I enjoyed reading your posts but recently you are not contributing. You are only looking for chances to plug your brands or business. Come ‘on ! You know better than that get back in track. ;\)
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/15/08 09:38 PM

 Quote:
I enjoyed reading your posts but recently you are not contributing. You are only looking for chances to plug your brands or business.
Not in the context of Dino's above post.

Read again and you will see the very point I'm making, it's got nothing to do with 'plugging' - Steigerman Premium as well as all our other makes, can stand nicely on their own!

P.S. Any of your own customers by chance ever writing here?

Norbert \:o
Posted by: swampwiz

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/15/08 11:43 PM

If, as it appears, that the Hailun is rated as 4A by Larry Fine, then I will have to change my opinion. This would make Hailun one of the better Chinese, but still not quite up to the standard grade Japanese (Yahama, Kawai). It seems that Perzina (also a Chinese) is rated higher.

With that said, it seems that for the low price that Hailun is being offered, that it would be a best of breed. Certainly, Hailun seems to be better than the standard low quality Chinese brand.
Posted by: mikhailoh

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/16/08 09:29 AM

The truth is in each our hands and ears. Go play one and see for yourself. The fact that it is better than the average Chinese piano is not necessarily a ringing endorsement.
Posted by: malcolm1

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/16/08 10:18 AM

Has anyone seen one of Hailuns brochures? I visited The factory last October, and I was more than impressed with the technology and machinery that is being used (Japanese and German). They are now using Hailun in one of the top Vianise concert halls, The first time ever for a chinese piano. Bearing in mind they have only been producing for 6 or 7 years. They have several top technicians and designers from Germany America and Japan pointing them in the right direction.
I work for a company in Australia that imports them with the Bernstein brand name, And have been for about 3 years. every container load is better than the one before.
Just a bit of food for thought, I hope this sheds a bit of light.

regards Dave
( Tuner tech 35 years)
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/16/08 11:23 AM

Hi Dave,

I've never seen a brochure, although I've played several of the pianos, and liked them a lot. I don't even know if they had brochures at the shop where I played them. The sales presentation there was very low-key.

I'm interested in your personal connection to the Bernstein fallboard name. Does Bernstein distribute to independent Australian retailers or does it have its own retail locations? I'm curious because in the South Asia market there seems to be a big overlap in the availablility of Hailun pianos. For example, I've read in this forum that Hailun, W&L, Bernstein, and Wagner can all be found in Singapore. In the US we had availability almost exclusively through the upgraded Steigerman Premiums that Dino described. That was basically on the East and West Coast. Now we have HailunUSA filling out a dealer network in all regions and competing pretty aggressively on price. Very recently, I saw a retailer website where the only new piano line represented was Wagner, but I have no idea if that's the Hailun-built Wagner that is sold in Asia. (Dino, please correct me if I've got it wrong here.)

Dave, are Hailun pianos under different brands competing against each other in Australia?

Mikhailoh,

I agree with you that endorsing a piano becauase it may be 4a is as silly as berating it because it's been labelled 4c. But I'm afraid your sensible approach of playing the pianos before commenting on them may fall on deaf ears when you address them to a member who insists on painting by the numbers.
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/16/08 01:10 PM

From malcoml1

 Quote:
Has anyone seen one of Hailuns brochures? I visited The factory last October, and I was more than impressed with the technology and machinery that is being used (Japanese and German).
Yes there is one - a very nice one - that says a lot about their technology. Unfortunately the only link I can provide is in French[/b] and was published by a Wendl & Lung[/b] dealer network in France/Switserland:

http://www.lesmaitresdupiano.net/w&l.pdf

The brand name connections (Hailun, Wendl & Lung, Steigerman Premium, Bernstein) is ever more becoming a mystery to me as apparently is also for turandot, especially in those markets (e.g. U.S.) where two brands (Steigerman Premium/Hailun) are competing on price, Steigerman charging a price premium of +/- 20% based on some cabinet differences and Renner hammers only?

schwammerl.
Posted by: Frank

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/16/08 05:00 PM

schwammerl,

I was at a dealer around Anaheim recently that carries Steigerman Premium and saw 2 same model uprights and one had Renner with red under felt and the other did not.
When I asked the dealer he said Steigerman has dropped Renner hammers (at least from uprights?) due to cost.They need to lower their cost.

Do they give dealers an option on parts reflective of cost?
I don't know.
Does that mean a consumer must now go into every detail to "see" what they are paying for?
Maybe.
Posted by: malcolm1

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/16/08 07:50 PM

Hi Mikhailoh
The Bernstein Name is owned by the company that I work for and were made by Samic, and identical to the Alex Stienbach.But because of politics and pricing the boss decided to put his name on a different brand (HAILUN). After visiting several other chinese factories, settled on Hailun as best for quality and price.
As far as I know, he is the only importer of Hailun in Australia. (Bernstein or otherwise) but then I don't go checking all the other dealers to see who's got what, its not what I do.
I believe Samic hung on to the Bernstein name, and are sold in other parts of the world, but not here.
Hope this answers the question
Regards Dave
Posted by: Kenny Blankenship

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/17/08 09:47 AM

I reiterate, and please read recent posts RE: Ranking, The Piano Book, Etc. We should stop referring the Fine book to folks coming to the site for unbiased, opinions. The source has "sold out" and shown to be tainted.
Posted by: JohnEB

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/17/08 03:20 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by malcolm1:
They are now using Hailun in one of the top Vianise concert halls, The first time ever for a chinese piano. [/b]
I think that's probably good marketing on Wendl & Lung's behalf (they're an Austrian firm based in Vienna, with a long history in the piano business, hmm). I'm not sure if the Vienna concert hall would have spontaneously chosen a W&L piano otherwise...
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/17/08 03:26 PM

 Quote:
When I asked the dealer he said Steigerman has dropped Renner hammers (at least from uprights?) due to cost.They need to lower their cost.
Not true in our case. We order and stock all of ours *with* Renners.

Norbert \:o
Posted by: Dino_dup1

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/18/08 01:31 AM

Frank,

I am disappointed at your comments. They seem kind o’ silly to me.

You stated that when you

 Quote:
asked the dealer he said Steigerman has dropped Renner hammers (at least from uprights?) due to cost. They need to lower their cost.
I don’t believe that was the dealers actual quote but regardless, I don’t think that we “need” to lower our costs. Of course we are always trying to offer the best product we can and be the best value possible. I guess Heintzman does not share this philosophy?

 Quote:
Do they give dealers an option on parts reflective of cost?
I don't know.
Well of course we charge more for pianos with Renner hammers than for those ordered without. We don’t have big enough margins to cover such extra expenses. One can only assume from your statement that Heintzman throws in Renner hammers for free. Profits must be good eh?


 Quote:
Does that mean a consumer must now go into every detail to "see" what they are paying for?
Maybe.
There is no deception here Frank and I am disappointed that you would infer otherwise. Our website plainly states that the vertical pianos are available with Renner or Japanese made hammers. I see that your website also states that “Renner hammers are available" for your vertical pianos.
 Quote:
Does that mean a consumer must now go into every detail to "see" what they are paying for?[/b]
;)

Too bad we both have the time to be reading the piano forums...
Posted by: diinin

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/18/08 01:50 PM

All ye who are criticizing Hailun/Steigerman Premium because of Larry's rating didn't actually read the book, did you? NOT that I'm standing up for him, as I'm appalled that he left Steinway in tier 1, despite its long track record of lousy workmanship. If a Chinese piano arrived needing as much work as a typical Slug---uh, Steinway--would they be anywhere above tier 4Z?

Fine's ratings are far from gospel. They are his opinion, some based on PRESSURE from one big name anyway, and others based on--what? No track record yet? He should have withheld those ratings altogether. You don't stick a piano in the bottom group just because you don't know anything about it yet. He felt forced to err "on the low side," for the Chinese, but didn't mind erring on the high side for Steinway, did he, even knowing their track record.

As per usual when someone comes up against the bully, they all too often succumb to pressure.

It would be interesting to know how many of those who so harshly ridicule the Hailun/Steig P's have ever even tried them.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/18/08 02:00 PM

Te so-called recession must be rearing its ugly head for some out there....

Norbert \:\(
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/18/08 02:13 PM

I was surprised to read how far out of his assigned customer territory Frank ventured to shop for his Steigerman.

 Quote:
I was at a dealer around Anaheim recently that carries Steigerman Premium and saw 2 same model uprights and one had Renner with red under felt and the other did not.
I guess that doesn't say much for you Norbert...that Frank would cross the border just to avoid buying his new Steig from you.

It's seems only fair that Dino should go to a SoCal Heintzmann retailer to check out the inventory. If he can't find one, probably Frank could dig one out for him. \:D
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/18/08 11:14 PM

Frank is most welcome to come and do his shopping right here at home!

All genuine Steigerman, genuine Renner, genuine everything!

[and one hell of a deal for an old friend...]

Norbert ;\)
Posted by: Glenn Treibitz

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/20/08 03:06 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Kenny Blankenship:
I reiterate, and please read recent posts RE: Ranking, The Piano Book, Etc. We should stop referring the Fine book to folks coming to the site for unbiased, opinions. The source has "sold out" and shown to be tainted. [/b]
I agree with Kenny. Fine's "Piano Book" is full of very biased opinions that are his own, and he is entitled, but they are opinions none the less. I think we have all sold pianos that his book both helps and hurts. In many ways Fine is a like a film critic, except he has a kind of monopoly on the whole industry. Imagine if Rodger Ebert were the only film critic and his opinion alone was the only one that perspective film goers were told to read. ( At least Ebert sees all of the films himself before he writes his opinions about them. Where as fine does not see every piano company's latest offerings that he writes about.)The book is good as a general overview only, but In my opinion his book confuses people more than it helps, and eventually everyone spins his book the way they want anyway.
Posted by: Frank

Re: Hailun pianos - 02/21/08 12:26 PM

Dino,
I owe you an opology.
It was tactless and unprofessional for me to quote a dealer on the forum.

I should also thank you for pointing out a website error. I will notify our webmaster to make changes. We DO NOT offer Renner Hammers as an option.Our models are standard with components model by model and dealers cannot order for instance a 132 with Japanese Hammers instead of Renner. This is for tone and performance consistancy to enable consumers to shop and expect the same features and performance no matter which retailer they purchase from.Price has nothing to do with it.

Again, I apologize and will be more diligent in the future.

Wishing you much success.
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/10/08 05:01 AM

Hi, I am new to this forum. I am looking to buy a piano and I have narrowed down to a Hailun 125 or Wendl and Lung 122. Both pianos here (Singapore) cost about the same. I like the overall tone of the W&L but the Hailun seems to have more presence. Appreciate if someone could provide me with some advise.

By the way, could anyone advise me how "Lung" is pronounced in "Wendl & Lung". I get two different pronunciation from two persons from the same dealership. One told me it was pronounced as "Lunk" while the other said it was "Loong".
Posted by: JohnEB

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/10/08 05:28 AM

Both pianos are made in the same factory, but it *may* be that the Wendl & Lung has some additional input from one or more European designers. However this isn't clear at all. You should ask the sellers specifically what the differences are as there may be some minor differences in materials, design, etc.

Lung in W&L is an Austrian name, therefore pronounced more like 'Loong' than 'Lunk'', but with the oo as a short sound, not long. I suspect the final G should be quite hard, so maybe 'Loonk'. And Wendl should probably be pronounced 'Vendel'
Posted by: diinin

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/10/08 09:47 AM

Might be a tough choice between those two. Generally, taller is better, in which case the Hailun would win, but you should go with your heart on this one. Spend a lot of time on each, playing different pieces. Eventually one might start to emerge as a front runner. And then let us know what you decide, and post pictures AND recordings, okay? \:D
Posted by: pianoca

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/10/08 10:21 PM

Reading from Chinese web articles I can report here that Hailun, while having achieved amazing progress in a very short time frame, started manufacturing piano only five years ago. Before that Hailun was a factory supplying parts, albeit key components, for other piano makers.

So it's hard to say about its endurance. However the initial quality should be very good due to its brand new facilities with equipments imported from Japan and Europe.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/10/08 11:16 PM

 Quote:
Both pianos are made in the same factory, but it *may* be that the Wendl & Lung has some additional input from one or more European designers. However this isn't clear at all.
JohnEB,

As you say, it's not clear. It's hard to imagine that the Wendl's in Singapore have gone from China to Vienna, been checked out, and then sent back to Asia. Is there anything in the W&L European website that mentions export to Asia?
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/11/08 01:07 AM

The dealer here said W&L pianos are shipped direct from the Hailun factory and not from China to Vienna and back to Asia.

Meanwhile, I have also tried the Hailun 122 (or is it the 121? sorry can't remember exactly). Was told that it and the W&L 122 are exactly the same. Just wondering how true can this be as it seems unlikely W&L will allow Hailun to produce an exact replica and sell at a lower price, which will undercut them.

In my personal opinion, it is unconceivable that W&L would not want to differentiate their pianos from Hailun's although they are made from the same factory.

By the way, when my wife and I tested the two pianos, their sound are definitely different. Although the dealer explained that the pianos (soundboard)are made from natural wood and no two pieces of wood are the same (accounting for the difference in sound), we could detect a certain characteristic in each of them.

Perhaps, someone could shed some light on this.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/11/08 01:33 AM

Over a year ago, Wzkit filed this report from Singapore on the 'Hailun Anyone' thread. http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/17210.html#000000

 Quote:
I played both the Hailun and Wendl & Lung side by side in the same showroom, and to the best of my ability, I could discern no noticeable difference in performance between the two. Apart from the name on the fallboard, both pianos were basically identical in touch and tone. Neither were the price differences significant.
I have no facts to back me up on this, but I think it's possible that Wendl&Lung in Europe does not have a stake in the Hailun pianos that are branded W&L in Asia. It's possible that use of the name in Asia is simply part of the marketing agreement between Hailun the maker and its European client W&L.

Some of the marketing practices of the Chinese makers are hard (for Westerners) to understand, but you can pretty much assume that when the bargain was struck Hailun brought quality manufacture at a reasonable price to the table and W&L brought technical and design expertise along with an entry to the European market.

My guess is that if Hailun is supplying pianos with identical components under both names in Asia, they have simply voiced them differently at the factory, or the dealer has done so himself. I think that's a more likely reason for the two you sampled sounding different than the dealer's comment about no two soundboards being identical.
Posted by: Glenn Treibitz

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/11/08 02:40 AM

I visited the factory 18 months ago and the pianos are made side by side. They were then basically the same. IMO I think they are both funny sounding names in English, so take you pick, enee meanie minie moe.
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/11/08 02:52 AM

 Quote:
Is there anything in the W&L European website that mentions export to Asia?
turandot,

the only link between W&L and sales in Asia I could find is W&L's subsidary (sales office) in Korea:
http://www.wendl-lung.co.kr/

They say it has been set up in 2005 in Seoul by their partner Sung-Hwan Park.

 Quote:
Just wondering how true can this be as it seems unlikely W&L will allow Hailun to produce an exact replica and sell at a lower price, which will undercut them.
keeferae,

Speeking in general terms Hailun and W&L do not compete eachother. The main market for W&L is Europe with it's 300+ dealers. In North America there are very few W&L dealers (I only know of one in Chicago and one in Québec, Canada).
Singapore must then be one of those exceptions; why they market both brand names is a mistery to me. But branding by Chinese companies is an issue that could be dealt with in a separate thread.

The biggest mystery in that respect for me still remains the (fierce?) competition between Hailun and Steigerman Premium in North America - why Hailun allowed (is still allowing) this to happen. Sometimes this is part of a marketing strategy though; allowing two brands to compete may sometimes yield as a sum more than if merely one brand would be on the market scene.

I also think turandot's guess that all might be down to some differnces in voicing at the Hailun factory is very plausible; differences in QC, voicing and perhaps some parts.

E.g. for parts I know that since about a year the W&L grands have cold pressed hammers which are made at the Hailun factory by an old Dolgen press which W&L installed overthere. I read nowhere Hailun would be using these hammers in their grands.

As turandot said W&L indeed brought design and technical expertise along.

The 115 Transparent upright and now the newly launched 110 Stereo upright are definitivaly Peter Veletzky designs.

schwammerl.
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/11/08 04:03 AM

Thanks everyone for all the prompt and useful information.

By the way, I have been scouring the websites of W&L and Hailun. In W&L, it said the wood used in the production of the soundboard originates in the highlands of Mongolia. Only slow growing spruce of highest quality and endurance is selected. The same wood is used in the production of the soundboard brace.

As for Hailun, it said it uses Siberian spruce.

Perhaps, this made a some difference in tonal characteristics? I am no expert though and just trying to gather as much information as possible.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/11/08 09:56 AM

 Quote:
By the way, I have been scouring the websites of W&L and Hailun. In W&L, it said the wood used in the production of the soundboard originates in the highlands of Mongolia. Only slow growing spruce of highest quality and endurance is selected. The same wood is used in the production of the soundboard brace.

As for Hailun, it said it uses Siberian spruce.
Siberian spruce is the common name of a tree species: picea obovata. This species is native to both Siberia and Mongolia. I'll bet you a sixpack of Tsingtao that all the trees being used come from the same forest. If there is a difference, and I doubt that there is, that difference would occur after the wood has been graded.

If the client (W&L) wishes to pay a premium in their contract for the highest grade of the maker's (Hailun) woodstock, then it's conceivable that W&L could have more carefully selected stock. In this case I don't think it's likely.

Voicing may seem like a minor detail, but believe me, the resulting difference from different voicing can be huge. Since the tone of a piano also affects the player's perception of touch, two pianos can seem worlds apart simply based on how they are voiced.
Posted by: Mario Bruneau

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/29/08 11:33 PM

Hi everyone,

You guys make me work late at night. I don't spend too much time here for I don't have too much time available.

Anyway, I tought I'de plunge into this thread.

I'll quote and then react to my best understanding or knowledge.

swampwiz goes:

 Quote:
If, as it appears, that the Hailun is rated as 4A by Larry Fine, then I will have to change my opinion. This would make Hailun one of the better Chinese, but still not quite up to the standard grade Japanese (Yahama, Kawai). It seems that Perzina (also a Chinese) is rated higher.
I really don't understand people rating a piano according to M. Fine's book! Lary Fine might be a good "entertainment" book for someone interested in pianos but should not get on the way for a purchase decision for more than 20%. 80% should be decided by the "feeling" of the buyer.

Malcolm1 wrote :
 Quote:
They are now using Hailun in one of the top Vianise concert halls, The first time ever for a chinese piano
False. The piano in the Golden Saal in Vienna is a Wendl&Lung 178. Hailun built it.

schwammerl wrote:
 Quote:
Yes there is one (a pamphlet) - a very nice one - that says a lot about their technology. Unfortunately the only link I can provide is in French and was published by a Wendl & Lung dealer network in France/Switserland:

http://www.lesmaitresdupiano.net/w&l.pdf
This is the Wendl&Lung pamphlet, not Hailun's

 Quote:
The brand name connections (Hailun, Wendl & Lung, Steigerman Premium, Bernstein) is ever more becoming a mystery to me as apparently is also for turandot, especially in those markets (e.g. U.S.) where two brands (Steigerman Premium/Hailun) are competing on price, Steigerman charging a price premium of +/- 20% based on some cabinet differences and Renner hammers only?
As I have said before, here it is again:
Wendl&Lung is a piano manufacture in Vienna since 1910 and M. Peter Veletzky represents the fourth generation of the family being the grand son of Stephany Lung the doughter of the first M. Lung.

Ningbo Hailun musical instruments used NOT to make complete pianos and where focusing solely on the production of piano parts for numerous famous piano names. Then came the meeting between M. Hailun Chen and the people from Wendl&Lung Vienna i.e. Peter Veletzky, Ernest Bittner, and Sibin Zlatkovic. From that meeting, M. Chen decided to partneship with Wendl&Lung to build pianos for the first time. It was a mutual agreement. After this, M. Chen had to invest a BIG amount of money to design and build the High Technology Machines needed to make the Wendl&Lung pianos. Following this pressure, M. Chen decided to market some Wendl&Lung pianos under his own name “Hailun piano”. Furthermore, M. Chen could not pass away the opportunity to “expand” his market with the Steigerman Premiums “orders”

So we have Steigerman, a Canadian piano business who is great in finding the best manufacturers for their piano but Steigerman is NOT a piano maker. I don't think Bernstein is either and Hailun was not a piano maker before Wendl&Lung came to partner with them. This is the story I know and it does make a big difference to me.

M. Hailun Chen is a business man and as such, he as some decisions to take.

Kenny Blankenship wrote:
 Quote:
I reiterate, and please read recent posts RE: Ranking, The Piano Book, Etc. We should stop referring the Fine book to folks coming to the site for unbiased, opinions.
I couldn't agree more with you Kenny.

JohnEB wrote:
 Quote:
I think that's probably good marketing on Wendl & Lung's behalf (they're an Austrian firm based in Vienna, with a long history in the piano business, hmm). I'm not sure if the Vienna concert hall would have spontaneously chosen a W&L piano otherwise...
Refering to the piano in the Golden Saal in Vienna being Wendl&Lung rather than an Hailun. So you're right JohnEB.

keeferae wrote:

 Quote:
Hi, I am new to this forum. I am looking to buy a piano and I have narrowed down to a Hailun 125 or Wendl and Lung 122. Both pianos here (Singapore) cost about the same. I like the overall tone of the W&L but the Hailun seems to have more presence. Appreciate if someone could provide me with some advise.
The bigger the better keeferae! They are different pianos for sure. Just trust your heart and ears.

 Quote:
By the way, could anyone advise me how "Lung" is pronounced in "Wendl & Lung". I get two different pronunciation from two persons from the same dealership. One told me it was pronounced as "Lunk" while the other said it was "Loong".
Here is a shot at this:
When at Wendl&Lung in Vienna, I often hear them pronounce it like this (reed the following in English): Woundol ündth Looged

In English we pronounce it: Wendel and Long

This is NOT a joke! Don't laught at me, I'm doing my best to help the guy \:o

JohnEB wrote:

 Quote:
Both pianos are made in the same factory, but it *may* be that the Wendl & Lung has some additional input from one or more European designers. However this isn't clear at all. You should ask the sellers specifically what the differences are as there may be some minor differences in materials, design, etc.
Wendl&Lung designed their pianos. They draw the lines to it's shape. M. Hailun Chen did not know how to build a piano before meeting the Wendl&Lung team. Why is this so hard to understand? (I'm not picking on you JohnEB, just making a point) Altought maybe Hailun designed the model 122 before their association with W&L but I'm not 100% certain.

pianoca wrote:

 Quote:
Reading from Chinese web articles I can report here that Hailun, while having achieved amazing progress in a very short time frame, started manufacturing piano only five years ago. Before that Hailun was a factory supplying parts, albeit key components, for other piano makers.
Well said pianoca ;\)

 Quote:
So it's hard to say about its endurance. However the initial quality should be very good due to its brand new facilities with equipments imported from Japan and Europe.
My feeling (as a pianotech and pianist) is that when a piano feels good playing it and tuning-repairing it, it will last as long as any good pianos. Quality can be heard and felt.

Then turandot quoting JohnEB:
 Quote:
As you say, it's not clear. It's hard to imagine that the Wendl's in Singapore have gone from China to Vienna, been checked out, and then sent back to Asia. Is there anything in the W&L European website that mentions export to Asia?
Pure logic here. You're right Turandot, the W&L pianos don't go zigzag like this. What is happening thought is that W&L make sure they traine their "collaborators" personnally to service their pianos anywhere in the world! So W&L either went to Singapore to traine their people or they have their collaborators from Singapore go in Vienna for their training just like I did some time ago.

keeferae wrote:
 Quote:
The dealer here said W&L pianos are shipped direct from the Hailun factory and not from China to Vienna and back to Asia.
Exactly!

 Quote:
Meanwhile, I have also tried the Hailun 122 (or is it the 121? sorry can't remember exactly). Was told that it and the W&L 122 are exactly the same. Just wondering how true can this be as it seems unlikely W&L will allow Hailun to produce an exact replica and sell at a lower price, which will undercut them.
One cm difference, they could be the exact same thing with just cosmetic differences. Remember I just wrote that M. Chen is very proud of his pianos and at the same time, a business man and as such, he "tries" things and oportunities and then base his choices according to their success.

 Quote:
In my personal opinion, it is unconceivable that W&L would not want to differentiate their pianos from Hailun's although they are made from the same factory.
When there is no differences like the 178 and 161, it is the "way" of doing business or the marketing differences that counts. If W&L is ready to spend time an money training their collaborators to make sure their pianos come out in pristine shape is an example of "ways" of doing business I am referring to.

 Quote:
By the way, when my wife and I tested the two pianos, their sound are definitely different. Although the dealer explained that the pianos (soundboard)are made from natural wood and no two pieces of wood are the same (accounting for the difference in sound), we could detect a certain characteristic in each of them.

Perhaps, someone could shed some light on this.
I will give you my tech's answear. When we prepare pianos, we go thruu some times up to 20 hours of work adding some guts here, rounding the sound there, etc. During this timespread, if you would "try" the piano from one state to the next, you would think of it as being 20 different pianos! So like Turandot said, the voicing makes the most difference. The two pianos you tried where just voiced "differently"

turandot wrote:
 Quote:
I have no facts to back me up on this, but I think it's possible that Wendl&Lung in Europe does not have a stake in the Hailun pianos that are branded W&L in Asia. It's possible that use of the name in Asia is simply part of the marketing agreement between Hailun the maker and its European client W&L.
Although I don't really understand the word "stake", I could say you are right. The marketing part I beleive is truth but I can assure you that there is more to it. W&L trained their collaborators in Asia just like they do around the whole world. M. Hailun Chen knows that the "german" name Wendl&Lung is "appealing" to the growing income chinese people and he made and agreement with W&L to sell their pianos there. Plain good business.

 Quote:
(…)
My guess is that if Hailun is supplying pianos with identical components under both names in Asia, they have simply voiced them differently at the factory, or the dealer has done so himself. I think that's a more likely reason for the two you sampled sounding different than the dealer's comment about no two soundboards being identical.
Identical components yes, but just the ones that overlap in between the two names like the 115, 161 and 178 only. And you're dead on for the voicing accounting for the different sounds.

And lastly, schwammerl wrote:
 Quote:

quote:
 Quote:
Just wondering how true can this be as it seems unlikely W&L will allow Hailun to produce an exact replica and sell at a lower price, which will undercut them.
keeferae,

Speeking in general terms Hailun and W&L do not compete eachother. The main market for W&L is Europe with it's 300+ dealers. In North America there are very few W&L dealers (I only know of one in Chicago and one in Québec, Canada).
This is right, W&L are for Europe-Asia and Hailun and Steigerman for the Americas. I don't sell W&L in Québec, but I do sell Hailun.

 Quote:
Singapore must then be one of those exceptions; why they market both brand names is a mistery to me. But branding by Chinese companies is an issue that could be dealt with in a separate thread.
Just read what I wrote earlyer in this post. I may ad thought that for example, neither a 110 nor a 122 exist under Hailun. And oposite way, neither a 121, 123, 125, 151, 198 or a 277 exist under the Wendl&Lung name or fallboard.

 Quote:
The biggest mystery in that respect for me still remains the (fierce?) competition between Hailun and Steigerman Premium in North America - why Hailun allowed (is still allowing) this to happen. Sometimes this is part of a marketing strategy though; allowing two brands to compete may sometimes yield as a sum more than if merely one brand would be on the market scene.
Strategy is the key word here turandot. Why not try different options and check what gets the most success. And even if there is one option better than the other, why not keep them both? The more business, the better

Can I go to slepp now?
Posted by: Kenny Blankenship

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/30/08 07:12 AM

Well done Mario!
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/30/08 08:53 AM

 Quote:
Can I go to slepp now?
Hi Mario,

Sure you deserve your sleep after this long post. I hope you will come back to this thread once more as I would like to give some comments though.

As an owner of a W&L 161 and after having made quite some contributions already on this forum on W&L, Hailun and all the brother and sister brands I can hardly be suspected of being negative about W&L or Hailun.

On the other hand I try to stay allert and critical and not to hype any brand. After reading your post I find many of the questions some of the contributors to this thread as unanswered, some answers even appear conflicting with eachother.
This of course is not unusual if one tries to deal with that many quotes in one long thread.

As I counted the word 'marketing' 5 times and the word 'business' even 8 times in this long post, I am afraid if all W&L or Hailun dealers would continue talking about these pianos in this way, they could well end up creating a new Steinway/Boston case with a lot of marketing babble all the time and nothing substantial.

And please don't misunderstand me, I have nothing against marketing techniques - as I am a marketing man myself, be it not in the piano business - but on this forum members often expect answers that go beyond marketing.

And yes I do esteam highly W&L's marketing success in setting up in Europe a brand name with a 300+ dealer network. But that is as far as it goes.

 Quote:
Wendl&Lung designed their pianos. They draw the lines to it's shape. M. Hailun Chen did not know how to build a piano before meeting the Wendl&Lung team .....Pure logic here. You're right Turandot, the W&L pianos don't go zigzag like this. What is happening thought is that W&L make sure they traine their "collaborators" personnally to service their pianos anywhere in the world! So W&L either went to Singapore to traine their people or they have their collaborators from Singapore go in Vienna for their training just like I did some time ago ....
If I read all this my conclusion must be: "what a business and marketing machine that must be, W&L" if they controll everything from design over production up to QC by training people all over the world!
And all this with a staff of merely 23 people, about half of the biggest piano dealer in a small country like Belgium?

I would assume that indead they had an important contribution in the start up of Hailun building pianos with some original designs indeed (115, 110 Stereo and the contacts with Paulello more recently ) but that their actual grips on the Hailun business is more moderate.

I am even afraid that W&L is gasping for breath right now when it comes to marketing: there website did not change since almost one year now, of all the announcements they made in the pamflet you refered to of products that would become available in 2007 NONE are on their website right now and most of these are not available yet as W&L products: only exceptions 218 Concert Paulello (not on W&L's site but sold by the big Swiss dealer already) and the small 110 Stereo upright (information only on that same dealer's website). But nothing about the 198 Prof. III, the 218 Cncert I or the 277 Concert III.

 Quote:
Refering to the piano in the Golden Saal in Vienna being Wendl&Lung rather than an Hailun
Are we really sure this grand was designed by Veletzsky and even so, would this still not be a Chinese piano?

 Quote:
Altought maybe Hailun designed the model 122 before their association with W&L but I'm not 100% certain.
So all is not all that clear cut as to whether or not W&L designed all Hailun's pianos. Who designed the one's that are not overlapping with the W&L catalogue?

 Quote:
When we prepare pianos, we go thruu some times up to 20 hours of work adding some guts here, rounding the sound there, etc.
I hope W&L's/Hailun do not nead 20 hrs of prep when they come out of the box (at least mine hasn't had that many hours) with all those people trained by W&L all over the world.

 Quote:
Identical components yes, but just the ones that overlap in between the two names like the 115, 161 and 178 only
Does this mean Hailun then use inferior components for the models that do not overlap?

 Quote:
I don't sell W&L in Québec, but I do sell Hailun.
Why then mention all the time W&L in connection with Hailun and only show these models which overlap with W&L. e.g.
 Quote:
Salle de montre pour la vente des pianos Wendl&Lung - Hailun
.
I know building brand equity is not a Chinese specialty but the Hailun site doesn't need the W&L pictures and logo to promote their products.

So for me not everything is all that clear cut as one would believe when reading your long post.

schwammerl.
Posted by: hotkeys

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/30/08 11:30 AM

Congratulations on your piano Sweetkeys!

You followed your instinct, which is "listen"; a piece of advice I got from the chief piano technician at the Manhattan School of Music at the January piano party in New York (he is the tuner involved in the book "Grand Obsession", a must-read for all pianists). \:\)

- Mark
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 03/30/08 02:57 PM

 Quote:
Hi everyone,

You guys make me work late at night. I don't spend too much time here for I don't have too much time available.

Anyway, I thought I'de plunge into this thread....
Can I go to sleep now?
Hey Mario,

What woke you up? The OP on the thread apparently purchased a Hailun on Feb. 11th. "I ended up purchasing a Hailun." although it would be interesting to know what keeferae decided.

In reviewing all of your content I'm not so sure I saw anything new there except the fact that you now represent Hailun after your attempt to represent W&L in Canada didn't quite work out. Congratulations for getting that done! I hope it works out for you. I'm not sure, however, that Hailun Chen would appreciate your characterization of him as a businessman who had no idea how to build a piano until he put everything in the care of W&L. You might want to rephrase that item.

Regarding your comment about marketing...
 Quote:
Strategy is the key word here turandot. Why not try different options and check what gets the most success. And even if there is one option better than the other, why not keep them both? The more business, the better
....we shall see in the future how this pans out. In the short term I'm sure you're right that selling as many pianos as quickly as possible under whatever name has merit early on when you need to offset those considerable physical plant and machinery costs to start production. In the long term I'm not so sure that having your pianos positioned in the market under so many different names is the way to go. Since Hailun controls actual production, I would expect them to become more and more aggressive in marketing their own name even if they run into direct competition from their own distributor clients.

Anyway, it was nice that recent Hailun convert Kenny Blankenship had a chance to welcome you to the Loyal Order of Hailun Sales Professionals (at least I think that's what he was doing \:D ).

One thing you didn't mention directly is just how outstanding the pianos built at Hailun are for the price. Maybe it's good you didn't. If people stay fixated on the Fine rating, demand will be limited and the pianos from Hailun will stay affordable for people whose taste exceeds their budget.

Have a good sleep! \:\)
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/13/08 10:28 PM

Hi Mario & Schwammer,

I must really say "WOW"!...........for the way you answer the various issues that this thread has thrown up. They are really interesting and informative.

By the way, I wonder whether anyone could shed some light about W&L 122 and the similar Hailun that the dealer here has pointed out to me.

According to a previous thread here, it was mentioned that both are similar and built side-by-side by Hailun in China. This is what the dealer told me as well at first.............then later he mentioned that the "only" difference is an aluminium plate that lies right below the keys. He even dimantle the casing to show it to me. He said this is patented by W&L.

Any idea about this? Does this has any effect on the sound?

Thanks!
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/14/08 01:08 AM

If every piano would have to undergo the type of analysis and mental dissection as Hailun just did, it could be thought of selling very few pianos.

By all accounts received so far, this is not exactly the fate Hailun is expected to suffer - any piano with sound and built qualities anywhere near this make, will do very well and most likely excel in the future.

The order books are full and this at least, is what should get the attention of those who whish to do well for themselves.

Let's see how long the nightmare of facing Hailun as your next local competitor in town will go unnoticed.

Or unpunished....

Norbert \:o
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/14/08 02:59 AM

 Quote:
then later he mentioned that the "only" difference is an aluminium plate that lies right below the keys. He even dimantle the casing to show it to me. He said this is patented by W&L.
keeferae,

The dealers must be refering to the aluminium key frame which stabilizes the keyboard and warrants better regulation stability:

http://www.lesmaitresdupiano.net/w&l.pdf (see p. 3 - 'Chassis de clavier' - sorry French only).

schwammerl.
Posted by: Innominato

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/14/08 06:36 AM

"Larry Fine might be a good "entertainment" book for someone interested in pianos but should not get on the way for a purchase decision for more than 20%. 80% should be decided by the "feeling" of the buyer."

And why, pray, should it be so? Feelings are what they are, extremely subjective and oft deceiving. And whilst my feelings about sound and action might have more importance to me, they still don't tell me anything about general quality issues, durability etc., which is largely determined by components and building processes which I cannot even see, let alone feel....

Larry Fine samples the opinions of hundreds of professionals. The great quality of the interventions of many professionals here, as well as their intellectual honesty, persuades me that the book is a very, very useful exercise.

As such and with all the caveats about the fallibility of human nature in general, the book is every day of the week infinitely more credible than unsubstantiated assertions of a Hailun salesman, (or of ANY salesman if it comes to that) considering it "entertainment".

That's why this books sells: because it is all but entertainment, whether you like it or not.

By the way, 4a is not a huge tribute to the make, but also not a dishonor at the price point and from what I remember in the higher spheres of Chinese piano production.

If anything, Fine's book will probably help many people in their decision to buy a Hailun, rather than discourage them.

One of the many good things of that book is that it is a great help put things in the right prospective.
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/14/08 11:14 AM

 Quote:
By the way, 4a is not a huge tribute to the make, but also not a dishonor at the price point and from what I remember in the higher spheres of Chinese piano production.
Fine's book is not all that reliable for brands that were introduced recently because of shortage of hands-on information.

Hailun was just introduced on the US market when the last edition was released.

W&L isn't even mentioned although at that time there must have been many more W&L's sold in Europe with 300+ dealers than Hailuns in the US. The book is also US biased as apparently it doesn't consider the European (?Asian) market opinions.

The Fine's pricing book is completely useless outside the US. It gives a general understanding to everyone though on piano history, how pianos are built or function.

Certainly the best free promoted product on this forum without any doubt.

schwammerl.
Posted by: Always Wanted to Play Piano

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/14/08 02:19 PM

This thread was/is very informative for me. It was my introduction into the world of new Chinese pianos. I read it and kept up with it before I got my own copies of the Larry Fine books. Then I forgot about it as I read through his discussions of the Chinese piano industry (especially in the current supplement). Had this thread not been resurrected, I probably would have forgotten about it, and forgotten where I had formed some of my opinions. I am still very much an impressionable rookie when it comes to these discussions, but I am sufficiently impressed with what I am hearing on this forum (not just in this thread) that I want to try a Hailun upright before I make a purchase later this year.

As I mentioned in another thread, I had emailed the address on the Hailun USA website to find out where my local Hailun dealer was. After quite a long time, I did finally get a response, and was told the nearest dealer is in Milwaukee. As it turns out, I will have to go to Milwaukee later next week for business, so perhaps I can take an hour or so and stop by the dealer. As an adult beginner with young children just learning to play, unsure if I want to make the kind of investment a new K5 might require (I think I remember M&B saying this would be a good start), I would figure I sit right in the middle of Hailun's target demographic.

But I am delighted to learn (or rediscover, I guess, since I knew this but had forgotten) that, as a Chicago-area resident, I have the unique opportunity to sample Wendl & Lung pianos. ANR Pianos (not affiliated in any way) claims they stock W&L 122's. I will stop by there, my daughter and I will try out what they have, and we'll report back.

Finally, I thought M&B was a little harsh early in this thread when he (right?) called out the OP as a poseur. Now, I am not so sure. As a 20-something piano player, music major, piano teacher, and mother of two, I would have thought she'd have a lot to contribute in other areas of these boards, but it seems she has elected not to.

Either she was who she said she was, and didn't care for the acrimony... or M&B was on to something.
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/14/08 04:43 PM

Hi Always Wanted to Play Piano,

If my knowledge of geography is a bit correct you must have a Wendl & Lung dealer somewhere around the corner:

http://www.pianofortechicago.com/

schwammerl.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/14/08 06:28 PM

 Quote:
If anything, Fine's book will probably help many people in their decision to buy a Hailun, rather than discourage them
This is correct.

Hailun will most likely be one of the very few pianos receiving markedly higher ratings by Mr.Fine in the future.

The way his ratings work, is that he appears always to be a few years behind waiting for reviews and opions by others to stream in over time.

Dealers or customers with good playing fingers and a set of right ears, coupled with that strange type of foresightness.... don't always seem to have the very same kind of problem... ;\)

That's why I have always held the view that pianos are like rising real estate [in normal markets...] or good investment stocks: once they prove to be successful, they often become too expensive.

Hailun IMHO, at least at the present time, may be one of the few makes genuinely representing undervalued 'piano real estate' for shoppers to consider in the present market.

Norbert
Posted by: Always Wanted to Play Piano

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/15/08 11:34 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by schwammerl:
Hi Always Wanted to Play Piano,

If my knowledge of geography is a bit correct you must have a Wendl & Lung dealer somewhere around the corner:

http://www.pianofortechicago.com/

schwammerl. [/b]
Thank you, Schwammerl. Your geography does not fail you, and I am often downtown for work-related activities. I shall indeed pay them a visit, as soon as I get over the idea of visiting a piano retailer who also stocks Fazioli, Grotrian, and Schimmel. I find this to be somewhat intimidating. And yet, I am amused and maybe a little perplexed that a dealer who sells these pianos might also sell an upright in the neighborhood where I'll be shopping.
Posted by: Innominato

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/16/08 02:26 PM

"The Fine's pricing book is completely useless outside the US. It gives a general understanding to everyone though on piano history, how pianos are built or function."

Schwammerl, I bought it and found it very useful because it sets the prices in comparison between each other. This way, I am able to judge whether a certain brand is, in the UK, relatively better priced than in the US. Besides, I was tired of following all the discussions in this forum without knowing how the relevant pianos are supposed to cost...

I agree with you that Fine's book is not a perfect instrument, wherever a subjective element is present you cannot have that.

On the other hand and just to make an impressive example, when a brand has been around for some years (say: Steinway) and there is no discussion whatsoever among those several hundreds people that steinway is not at all at the same level (all elements included) than the 1a pianos, and for the majority of prople also of the 1b pianos, then I start to listen and to find the book mighty useful in a world dominated by the stupidest sales slogans, sound bites and half lies ("all steinway college" etc. just the last one).

These people contributed to Fine's rankings are hundreds of professionals, exposed to a lot of instruments; not a couple of overexcited dealers who have read the latest propaganda brochure or people thinking that they smell of Steinway because they have bought an Essex....

But my point is that Fine's book is much, much more than "entertainment", whatever its limits.
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/17/08 04:48 AM

-------------------------------------------------
I hope W&L's/Hailun do not nead 20 hrs of prep when they come out of the box (at least mine hasn't had that many hours) with all those people trained by W&L all over the world.
-------------------------------------------------

Hi Schwammer,

For a new piano that has just come out of the box and delivered to your home, how long on average will the technician take to "prep" or "tune" your piano. Will the piano be "voiced" as well?
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/17/08 09:33 AM

Hello again keeferae,

I am afraid this time my answer will be of little help to you.

I am pretty sure my W&L did not get any special prep or voicing before delivery. Generally overhere a dealer will just let the piano adapt to it's new environment, tune it a couple of times, check that nothing is fundamentally wrong (no squeeking pedals, sticking keys) and deliver it to your home. There may be exceptions if e.g. you would be purchasing a Bösendorfer or a Hamburg Steinway or if you would have noticed already something that was not quite OK when testdriving the piano in the showroom.

Most of the dealers here have their own technical service and independent techs are very hard to find (I haven't found a good one yet).

So nothing special was done really apart from voicing a few notes and increasing the aftertouch on two keys during the second tuning session; all is done step by step (you need to be patient).

That being said my W&L was quite Ok out of the box although I am sure that if one of the many competent dealers or tuner-technicians who contribute here regulalarly would spend a couple of hours on it, it could even still be better.

schwammerl.
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 03:40 AM

Hi, found this while surfing the internet (Larry Fine's "The Piano Book 2007-2008").

For layman like myself, it may provide some useful information.

http://www.bolpianos.nl/assets/nieuws/the%20piano%20book%20larry%20fine.pdf
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 03:40 AM

Hi, found this while surfing the internet (Larry Fine's "The Piano Book 2007-2008").

For layman like myself, it may provide some useful information.

http://www.bolpianos.nl/assets/nieuws/the%20piano%20book%20larry%20fine.pdf
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 07:40 AM

From keeferae:
 Quote:
For layman like myself, it may provide some useful information.
I don't think the ranking in 4C is relevant here because as I commented in this thread on the previous page " Hailun was just introduced on the US market when the last edition was released."

schwammerl.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 09:27 AM

Of all the things that must try the patience of Larry Fine, this website must be high on the list. Ron Bol is the lord and master of Perzinaville. Music Brokers Intl. is his umbrella company which maintains headquarters in Lenzen, Germany, does its manufacturing in China, has a history of excerpting Fine quotes and selected quotes of certain members of this forum in its promotional materials, puts a German city name (Schwerin) on the fallboard of its 'German' pianos, and claims to be a European piano by virtue of European components such as Detoa actions which Detoa itself denies supplying.

It must be extremely difficult for Mr. Fine to evaluate pianos with complete objectivity when his intellectual property is exploited in this way.
Posted by: cruiser

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 09:34 AM

...anyway \:\) , I'm seriously thinking about buying a Wendl & Lung Professional 2 (178cm) in preference to an old (1930) German grand (Thürmer) I've been considering. My budget will not allow me to consider a more exotic purchase.
Posted by: PianoPro

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 09:42 AM

I played these pianos at the recent NAMM show and found them to be surprisingly nice. I am extremely skeptical of chinese pianos having been burned by so many. Two things we don't know: 1) how much "prep" did it take to make them play as they did. 2)Will the tuning, regulation of the action last. Inferior pianos have a tendancy to deteriorate rapidly after the technician has spent costly hours making them play well. I would suggest you consider one of the new Cable-Nelson pianos for your $3100. They are designed and built by Yamaha. Certainly a more known comodity.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 09:55 AM

Pianopro,

The NAMM show is a show for industry professionals. If you are one, you should probably state that in your signature here. It certainly would not de-value your opinions in the least, and I don't believe you have to be all that specific. It just gives everyone the opportunity to take your comments in context.

BTW, in the context of your comments about Chinese pianos, it would probably be good to mention where the CN 116 is built and that actual selling prices vary among dealers.
Posted by: PianoPro

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 12:14 PM

Turandot,

Thank you!

Was not trying to hide, just became a member today!

Cable Nelson pianos are also made in China. There are some nice differences though. Even when the Yamaha uprights were made in Thomaston, GA. the critical components (hammers, pre-strung plate, action parts) were made in Japan and shipped to the US for final assembly in a case made here in the USA. Yamaha has managed to keep quality controll at a high level regardless of where they make their products.

Yes, prices may vary from dealer to dealer. Shipping costs are not "averaged" for pianos like they are for car dealers. A store in Michigan for example would pay more freight than say San Diego. However, Yamaha does NOT grossly inflate MSRPs, so I stand by my statement that these pianos would be at least "competitive" in this price range.
Posted by: PianoPro

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 12:15 PM

BTW, Namm shows are not just for industry "insiders". Guest passes can be obtained.
Posted by: Steve Chandler

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 12:39 PM

Hi PianoPro aka Dennis,

I see you're from Iowa. Welcome to the forum. Where in our fair state do you hail from and by any chance would you be interested in joining a piano party on May 2nd? See this link for more information.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/21486.html
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 01:33 PM

Dennis,

Let me welcome you here too and thanks for you disclosure.. I'll try to hit you up for a guest pass to NAMM next year. \:D
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 10:52 PM

I don't think the ranking in 4C is relevant here because as I commented in this thread on the previous page " Hailun was just introduced on the US market when the last edition was released."
--------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Schwammer,

Thanks for pointing out. Also, as have been pointed out in this forum previously, perhaps we should just take the info at face value.

As for Hailun pianos, which have been given some pretty good reviews here, the ranking seems a little low (just my opinion). There is also no mention of Wendl&Lung, which is Austian-owned but made by Hailun, and which its upright model 122 Universal gets a pretty good rating.

http://www.lesmaitresdupiano.net/attachments/diapason-or.pdf

Nevertheless, I thought some other info provide an interesting read.

Cheers
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/24/08 11:09 PM

 Quote:
I don't think the ranking in 4C is relevant
I think Mr. Fine might agree with you. I recall him mentioning that in the instance of certain brands (Hailun included) there was a rush to get them mentioned at all. His aim was to get as many brands included as possible. If his considered opinion matches that of those of us who have played them, they will probably get a bump the next time around.

Incidentally, the W&L you have in your Singapore market is probably not appreciably different from the Hailun. Your W&L's don't seem to get the Viennese holiday for final inspection. I kind of doubt that Mr. Fine will be travelling to Singapore to audition them. He has enough headaches right here. \:D
Posted by: JohnEB

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/25/08 04:28 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
Incidentally, the W&L you have in your Singapore market is probably not appreciably different from the Hailun. Your W&L's don't seem to get the Viennese holiday for final inspection. [/b]
I'm not convinced that *any* W&L pianos get inspected in Vienna on their way for delivery elsewhere - and I can't track down where this rumour came from. On page 3 of this thread Mario said that the Hailun people were trained by W&L folk to do the quality inspections, and I'm more inclined to believe that's true. Sending everything to Vienna to be opened up, checked, repacked and despatched would add a lot to the price.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/25/08 09:27 AM

John EB,

It was your compatriot Schwammerl. I don't think it's a rumor. It's the way W&L states that they do business in Europe.

from Schwammerl
 Quote:
all W&L pass through W&L-Vienna for final check-up and regulation before being shipped to dealers in Europe
Posted by: PianoPro

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/25/08 10:24 AM

OK, I gotta weigh in on this one. Trust me when I tell you that Hailun is just the flavor of the day. I see them come, I see them go. In my store, I carry cheaper asian pianos for the same reason every other dealer does. Not everyone is in the same "rent district".

Now, I am going to answer the question that has thus far gone unanswered. Why do I carry the Chinese/Indonesian piano I do?

First, I represent a piano that I have confidence in the management team in the US. It is a choice I made based on years of industry relationships. Our #1 piano will continue to be Yamaha, but the Sohmer and Kohler and Campbell pianos I get from Dick Christian and the Samick Music Corporation are supported by people in the US I trust. I need a part, I get one. I have constructive criticism, I can share it and see them make appropriate adjustments.

Second, these pianos are made in Indonesia. I have found that the Chinese makes are a step behind Indonesia. I can't explain why except for maybe Yamaha several years ago started making the GP1, GA1, and later the GB1 in Indonesia and gave this area of the world a bit of a boost. I'm certain it has a lot to do with the preparation (kiln drying) of the wood prior to manufacturing.

Several years ago, my company tried the first pianos Young chang made in this area. after uncrating them, we litterally watched the key stocks warp and make the highest octave unplayable. We had similar problems with early Pearl River pianos. In an overview, there was a general lack of attention to detail. Since that time, I have seen more of the same come and go while more US companies close.

Here is the best advice I feel I can offer the sincere consumer out there. For upright pianos (consoles, studios, and professional uprights) I suggest you choose a Yamaha. Your not going to save much of anything price wise by going to Pearl River, Hamilton (cheap Baldwins from China)Hailun, and so on. Yamaha now has pianos in every price range and the quality assurance is a bit more known. Their critical components are still made in Japan and installed in a cabinet they can build anywhere in the world. Because currently there is still a price disparity on small grands, I'd go with an older established company that is now making products in Indonesia. They may cost slightly more than the Chinese counterparts, but I am convinced they are worth it.I personally like the Sohmers I get from Samick. Of course this post may become dated in a couple of months when the new cable Nelson grands arrive from Yamaha!

These are my opinions. Good luck!
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/25/08 10:51 AM

from pianopro
 Quote:
Trust me when I tell you that Hailun is just the flavor of the day. I see them come, I see them go. In my store, I carry cheaper asian pianos for the same reason every other dealer does. Not everyone is in the same "rent district".
I see no particular reason to trust you (or distrust you). You're here all of two days and you use a long-running thread on a competitive product to talk up Yamaha and your competing Indonesian products.

Hailun pianos have genuine Hailun parts just as Yamaha has genuine Yamaha parts. You can find Hailun parts in some pretty high-priced pianos, even if the makers of those pianos don't advertise their Hailun upgrades in their promotional literature. ;\)
There's a Yamaha salesman resident of this forum who used to pick on Hailun regularly. Then one day his employer decided to carry the line. Now he sheds his blood (represents) for both brands. His name is Kenny Blankenship. Ye has seen the light. \:D You should use the community directory to send him a PM and become enlightened too.
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/25/08 11:42 AM

From PianoPro:
 Quote:
Second, these pianos are made in Indonesia. I have found that the Chinese makes are a step behind Indonesia. I can't explain why except for maybe Yamaha several years ago started making the GP1, GA1, and later the GB1 in Indonesia and gave this area of the world a bit of a boost. I'm certain it has a lot to do with the preparation (kiln drying) of the wood prior to manufacturing.
 Quote:
Several years ago, my company tried the first pianos Young chang made in this area. after uncrating them, we litterally watched the key stocks warp and make the highest octave unplayable. We had similar problems with early Pearl River pianos. In an overview, there was a general lack of attention to detail.
Perhaps I am a bit slow today because of the first spring sun, but I do not follow the logic here.

We should be carefull with Chinese pianos because you had problems with a KOREAN piano (Young Chang) and a CHINESE one (Pearl River) ...so all Chinese pianos are questionable??

And because Yamaha has a factory in Indonesia, all pianos produced in Indonesia are OK???

schwammerl.
Posted by: John Pels

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/26/08 02:04 AM

Guys, I'm getting such a charge out of this. I just have to wonder when Schwammerl is going to accuse PianoPro of "prejudice". Pianopro is at least a little more off the hook so to speak because unlike me he HAS played more of the Chinese instruments, but his observations thus far, at least to me, seem predictable. At least no one has accused him of being me with a new screen name. (Maybe we were twins separated at birth?) I just wish he'd been around on the Steinway Character Assasination thread. Welcome PianoPro!!

I just was chatting with a friend that has been consulting on a job in China. It seems that $50 million was invested in a factory that was dealing with chemicals in flat-screen production. The factory was spec'd by a Dutch firm, but they used all Chinese pumps for their processes. Within months the factory was idled with heavy losses. It seems that NONE of the Chinese equipment met the specs and was heavily corroded. They gutted the entire plant and started over, but not using the Chinese for suppliers for any of the equipment. No dear friends, it's not piano related, but it does relate to an overarching philosophy, and that philosophy is not necessarily to be the "best". So, when I get attacked for my "wait and see" attitude, every time I turn around it is justified.

Prejudice has no place, nor does jingoism. The Germans for instance have earned a great reputation OVER TIME for quality. If you were to ask what the reputation of the Chinese is today, you would not likely hear quality at the top of the list. Maybe in the decades to come, that WILL be the case, but pretending otherwise today just doesn't make any sense. Reputations are earned folks. The more items that they make lacking quality, the more difficult it will be to earn that reputation. It was in our lifetimes after all that the Japanese had a reputation for making some really shoddy stuff especially post-war thru the late 60's. It all changed developmentally in the 70's and onward. The reputation for quality and consistency is likely rivaled by no one at this point.It took time and dedication to quality and the desire to be the best.

As to Yamaha's Indonesian factories, I would say that the last thing that Yamaha would want to do would be to squander it's vaunted reputation supplying shoddy pianos. For that reason I would tend to believe that those pianos are of a higher quality than their Chinese contemporaries, or better said, I would feel more assured putting my money into their products.
Posted by: schwammerl

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/26/08 03:03 AM

 Quote:
It seems that NONE of the Chinese equipment met the specs and was heavily corroded. They gutted the entire plant and started over, but not using the Chinese for suppliers for any of the equipment.
John,

They probably listened to you as (from Hailun's site)and opted for Japanese equipment ;\) :
 Quote:
Since 2001, Hailun has invested heavily in Japanese[/b] digital equipment and production lines.
schwammerl.
Posted by: FogVilleLad

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/26/08 03:24 AM

>If you were to ask what the reputation of the Chinese is today, you would not likely hear quality at the top of the list. Maybe in the decades to come, that WILL be the case,...

I think that this trend is already underway, exemplified in the "second generation" instruments - those with significant oversight or control by non-Chinese. Of course time will still be needed, to learn the true tale.
Posted by: pianobroker

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/26/08 03:28 AM

 Quote:
Second, these pianos are made in Indonesia. I have found that the Chinese makes are a step behind Indonesia. I can't explain why except for maybe Yamaha several years ago started making the GP1, GA1, and later the GB1 in Indonesia and gave this area of the world a bit of a boost. I'm certain it has a lot to do with the preparation (kiln drying) of the wood prior to manufacturing.
You gotta be joking.....Having played most of the better present day Chinese manufacturers,along with most Indonesian manufactured pianos,I have yet to see any worthy quality contribution as for scale or construction coming out of Indonesia. GP1 and GB1 are pretty sad examples of future expectations coming out of Indonesia. Does one foresee Yamaha shifting assembly of their artist C or S series to Indonesia. Somehow I don't think so.....you never know what lies in the future \:\)
Having a strong bias toward high level restoration of vintage American pianos. If done right they can be superior to most mass production asian pianos but in reality it has to make sense as for $ cost.Therefore it will be cost prohibitive in this day and age to do a comprehensive restoration on a so...so average piano even though it being superior to a comparable mass produced asian piano.

If you've had an opprotunity to experience ex. Hailun's 6'5" and 7'new artist level prototypes, one can see the better Chinese manufacturers contributing more in scale design etc.than just competing for the best 150 cm baby grand for the $ in the marketplace. I gotta admit I can't even do a high level polyester finish for the cost that one can purchase the entire piano wholesale. In conclusion unless I see any Indonesian contributions other than Yamaha's low end mdls. they are are still at bottom of the asian totem pole as for piano manufacture and design.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/26/08 10:05 AM

 Quote:
from John Pels
Guys, I'm getting such a charge out of this
That's good John, but mind the voltage. No one would want to see you hurt yourself cavorting over your ignorance of Asian pianos.

Pianopro's basic logic is that his brand Yamaha assures a certain level of quality wherever they choose to manufacture. I see nothing wrong with that line of thinking. On the other hand, his first post here was a warning about Chinese pianos due to his "having been burned by so many". From that perspective he recommended a CN116 for $3100, a Yamaha product built in, of all places, CHINA.

Hailun pianos sound very musical and play well. I've played lots of them. I like them. I think they offer a lot for the asking price. I also like the fact that the maker puts his name on the fallboard and doesn't step away one iota from the fact that his pianos are thoroughly Chinese.

Since you're on the Hailun thread, let me ask your impression of Hailun pianos from your experience playing them and looking at their construction details. I'm sure your answer will be most revealing. \:D
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/26/08 11:40 AM

 Quote:
If you've had an opprotunity to experience ex. Hailun's 6'5" and 7'new artist level prototypes....
I think they're past the 'prototype' stage.

The ones I saw at Frankfurt Messe [Wendl&Lung] were eye-ear popping.

Together with Brodmann, I believe a whole new generation of grand pianos is upon us....

Norbert
Posted by: JohnEB

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/27/08 04:25 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by John Pels:
If you were to ask what the reputation of the Chinese is today, you would not likely hear quality at the top of the list. Maybe in the decades to come, that WILL be the case, but pretending otherwise today just doesn't make any sense. [/b]
Yes reputations are earned over time, but that doesn't mean that everything manufactured in China is rubbish. iPods are made in China - and they seem to have a reasonably high quality standard. IBM Thinkpads are made there. Your computer mouse is almost certainly made there, and the battery in your laptop (if you have one). 86% of shoes sold in the USA are made in China, although only about 27% of clothes (although only about 6% of clothes worn in the USA are actually made there). And that's not just the low value/poor quality shoes and clothes.

Yes of course there are poor quality goods coming out of China, but there are also some very high quality goods, and assuming that Chinese pianos are poor quality because Chinese pumps or toys doesn't make a lot of sense.
Posted by: John Pels

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/27/08 06:04 PM

John, I never said all was rubbish. What I am looking for is a cultural philosophy towards production. There have been so many well publicized failures, that call that philosophy into question. Whether it's dog food, toys, pumps, pianos,medicines it seems that the thrust seems to be to get away with whatever we can until we're caught, and then let the dance begin. And speaking of batteries in laptops, I thought that Dell recently had some catching fire because of faulty batteries. I hope that the quality improves because otherwise there's not much value in (relatively) inexpensive goods. My attitude historically towards the instruments has been "wait and see". If they achieve respect in the market for quality products over time, they will be rewarded, if not, they will be in the dustbin of piano history like many others before them.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/27/08 06:14 PM

Personally I have long felt that the question about "Chinese pianos" has never been just about "Chinese pianos" - but who out of about 200 Chinese manufacturers have greatest potential, are the most serious and are making the greatest committment to serious quality.

Hailun, to give one example,has long been a high quality parts manufacturer exporting their products - mostly action parts - to several prominent European piano makers.

Once someone gets near the top of the food chain, it changes the whole picture - generalities of sorts don't tell the story here any longer.

If anything, it allows for the fatal mistake - especially for certain other manufacturers - to ignore the development of things going on out there,something that can and *will* directly affect them in the future.

Remember,it wasn't "the English" who conquered Mount Everest - but one single person: Sir Edmund Hillary.

Rest assured that Chinese pianos are already or will have their own 'heroes' and 'gold medal winners' in a very short time.

Pity on those who continue to sleep and ignore the fact that the world is changing faster than perhaps ever before.

Or was convenient...

Norbert \:o
Posted by: JohnEB

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/28/08 04:03 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
Remember,it wasn't "the English" who conquered Mount Everest - but one single person: Sir Edmund Hillary. [/b]
Erm, actually it was a whole team of people, some of who were English, some New Zealanders (like Hillary) and some Sherpas. Hillary only ended up being in the final assault party through a lucky (for him) combination of circumstances. The 2nd person to set foot on the summit was Sherpa Tenzing, and Hillary spent the rest of his life working in the Himalayas building schools, hospitals, etc. partly as a way of recognising the Sherpa people. End of off topic rant.
Posted by: JohnEB

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/28/08 04:09 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by John Pels:
John, I never said all was rubbish. What I am looking for is a cultural philosophy towards production. There have been so many well publicized failures, that call that philosophy into question. Whether it's dog food, toys, pumps, pianos,medicines it seems that the thrust seems to be to get away with whatever we can until we're caught, and then let the dance begin. And speaking of batteries in laptops, I thought that Dell recently had some catching fire because of faulty batteries. [/b]
Agreed, you didn't say everything was rubbish, and I didn't mean to put words into your mouth. My point was that China does make high quality goods too: in fact they are making what the rest of us will buy. If we choose to buy low quality goods because they are cheaper then that's what they will make. However they also make high quality goods when what the rest of the world wants is high quality. As Norbert said above, making generalizations about Chinese manufacture is not going to make for an accurate picture of the real quality.

And those Dell laptop batteries that caught fire: they were made in Japan by Sony.
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/28/08 04:32 AM

Hi everyone,

Just to offer my opinion as a consumer regarding made-in-China pianos.

I think it is unfair to generalise all China-made pianos as "inferior". There must be good reasons why many established Piano makers manufacture some of their pianos in China, or at least some piano parts, which include Yamaha.

I can understand the concerns over the "quality" issue given the many horror stories about China products, from tainted toys and medicine to food products. Like most people, I will also be very wary should I decide to purchase a China-made product like a piano.

However, from an economic point of view and given how closely linked the global economy is, companies are forced to shift some, if not all, of their operations to low-cost countrries like China to remain competitive.

Does this make their products "inferior". This is debatable but I don't believe a company like Yamaha would like to ruin their hard-earned reputation if it does not believe it can maintain a high standard, be it in the manufacturing of pianos or piano parts. I am sure it must be confident of maintaining the high standard when deciding to shift its operation abroad.

As a consumer, this could mean paying slightly less for a quality piano. However, buying a Yamaha piano still cost considerably higher than other lesser-established brands like Hailun. In other words, we have wide choices. If we cannot afford a Yamaha, there are other brands that provide great alternatives for the $$! And paying less does not necessary mean you get "inferior" quality.

Earlier in this thread, I have been asked what my choice is between a Hailun and Wendl&Lung 122. I have finally made the choice and it is the W&L and I would like to share how I come to this decision (which may be relevant to some of the discussions about China-made pianos). Although Hailun and W&L are both made in the same factory in Ningbo, I opted for the W&L becos I still have some lingering concerns over a China brand (sorry for supporters of Hailun if I sound a little sceptical about the brand given the bad press about China products recently). As for the W&L, although it is made in China, the brand is still wholly Austrian owned and Peter Veletzky is the 4th generation owner which gives me confidence about its tradition (sort of buying some insurance). Also, my wife and I love the sound which is musical and clear. Also, the sound has a certain distinct characteristic. However, let me qulaify that this does not mean the Hailun sounds lousy. It is just that we like the sound better when compared side-by-side in the showroom. Meanwhile, compared to a Kawai K5 that my wife's nephew owned, I don't believe the sound is that "inferior" (just in our opinion). Mind you, we pay only about $3,800 for the W&L while the Kawai K5 cost almost $8,000!

Back to the perspective of a consumer, what we have are choices, choices and more choices. Yes, you can be assured of "quality" from established brands like Yamaha and Kawai, but you pay substantially more. However, the China-made pianos offer great value. A brand like Hailun that cost about 10% less than the W&L has a lot to offer although they may not have the history to convice everyone. A close inspection also showed that it is solidly built. According to the dealer here, he said he only decide to bring in the Hailuns after he is convinced of the leap in quality from their earlier models. I am sure, in times to come, things will change and people will be able to distinguish between well-made and poorly-made China pianos.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/28/08 09:59 AM

Keeferae,

Congatulations on the new W&L and for hosting this long-running thread with great objectivity and restraint.

Your choice came down to two pianos built by Hailun. That's testimony to their appeal. You chose the one with European management intervention and with a sound that appealed to you more. Perhaps that validates Mr. Chen's approach to letting his pianos into the market with many different fallboard names.

Your final comment is certainly true.

 Quote:
I am sure, in times to come, things will change and people will be able to distinguish between well-made and poorly-made China pianos.
There will almost certainly be a shakedown in the future that will result in the survival of the fittest. As to retailers in the US, most offer similar logic as your dealer. If they sell a Chinese line, they express confidence in it. Some of the dealers in this forum begin dropping favorable comments about a particular Chinese line in the interim between a decision to carry it and the arrival of their inventory. Retailers who do not sell Chinese express a lack of confidence. It's predictable really. No retailer is going to say: "I took on this line because it has strong initial appeal at its price. I think it will work for me. I don't know beans about the long-term outlook but I'll let my customers find out one way or the other." \:D
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/28/08 11:26 AM

There is another aspect about Chinese pianos often overlooked.

We must not forget that there are other people watching this, being highly interested in this development: perhaps more than anybody else here:
*other manufacturers*.

Some of them shrug things off [the dumb ones...] others try to sidestep it by increasing the propaganda about their own pianos and yet others again, decide that the only way out is the "escape to the top of the top"

In my personal opinion, those who have chosen the latter concentrating only on Premium quality in each and every piano they build[/b], will be successful.

As I said long time ago: "there will be only the best of the best left, everybody else will be right behind".

Pick your own king and queen among those top-top pianos - but few they will be in the end indeed....

Norbert \:o
Posted by: PianoPro

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/28/08 03:36 PM

Point of clarification: I said the Hailun was the flavor of the day. I never said it was junk. Time will tell. I have become skeptical (as many consumers have) over bad experiences I have had with chinese pianos. My experiences with the Indonesian products has ben somewhat more positive. As I said with my first post in this thread, I was actually impressed with the Hailuns I played at NAMM.

Further, the Young chang pianos we had such trouble with at my store were made in China, not Korea. The Korean pianos from YC were far better.
Posted by: John Pels

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/29/08 12:19 AM

From PianoPro: "The Korean pianos from YC were far better".

Heaven help us!!
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/29/08 12:26 AM

Anybody a stockbroker here interested to discuss how the market was 5 years ago.....

Norbert \:D
Posted by: Joe Bednar

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/30/08 08:56 AM

Regarding M&B's comments:

Must of us in this Forum are piano dealers.
Chinese pianos are available in 90% of all piano retailers. Everybody is in the same boat that's why nobody tells you the truth.
Why? Because is easier to sell a cheap piano to an uneducated costumer. In other words because they can take the line of less resistance and still make some good margin.
________________________________________________

I read this thread with some interest. I have resisted posting in the past because of my affiliations with Hailun and Petrof. Having been in the pianos business for over 40 years, 26 in retail and 17 in wholesale, I must say that the Hailun product is truly different with regard to Chinese pianos. The history of Hailun is fascinating.

This company started in the piano business by building parts for other manufacturers in Europe, Asia and America 24 years ago. They still supply high precision parts to many companies. In addition they produce finished backs and in one case whole pianos for 2 European manufacturers.

What makes them unique is the innovation that Mr. Chen Hailun has incorporated into their manufacture. Also, the scale designs are not cookie cutter pianos. The line has been designed by several of the most prominent piano scale designers in the business.

I do not want to get into a lengthy piano commercial here. My intent is to simply state that having been associated with many brands of pianos over the years, I am absolutely amazed at the quality of materials, the level of quality control and the value for the dollar of the Hailun piano line. One can not simply group all Chinese piano manufacturers into a single category. I remember when Japanese pianos were laughed at by the industry in the 60's and 70's.

Piano manufacturing is cyclical. In 1960 it was Japan, in 1980 it was Korea, in 2000 it was China. The focus of piano manufacturing changes and shifts to different countries due to labor costs and technological development. It will not be long before Chinese pianos in general will rise in price to the point that another country will establish itself and emerge as a source of piano manufacturing.

For now, Hailun is clearly the quality leader both in construction and in performance from China. Check the NAMM article in the PTG Journal in April.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/30/08 09:58 AM

Joe,

I can't welcome you here since you have been a (quiet) member much longer than me, so let me welcome you to posting here and remind you to fasten your seatbelt.

I am curious to see how your short (not lengthy) commercial will be received here by some of your industry brethren. M&B hasn't been around here for a while. He's probably too busy selling whatever it is he sells wherever it is that he sells it to 'costumers'. Maybe we'll see one of his pianos in the Dark Knight batman flick. But even if you don't lure M&B back to the thread, you may read some reaction to the line about "What makes them unique is the innovation......". Most of the reps here are somewhat complimentary to the lines of others. I really don't know how the uniqueness of Hailun will be received. \:D Personally, in terms of value for money spent, I would not disagree with you at all.

In the lull before the storm let me ask you a question about this statement.

 Quote:
In addition they produce finished backs and in one case whole pianos for 2 European manufacturers.
I would assume the first customer for whole pianos is W&L. I've heard that Hailun is building an Anton Petrof line for Petrof. Is that true and would that then be the second whole piano customer?
Posted by: Joe Bednar

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/30/08 11:05 AM

Turandot...thanks for the welcome. W & L is not what I was referring to - that is a line under the control of Hailun. My syntax was confusing... finished backs for Schimmel (May Berlin), whole pianos for Petrof under a different name.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/30/08 11:39 AM

from Joe Bednar
 Quote:
finished backs for Schimmel (May Berlin), whole pianos for Petrof under more than one name, Anton Petrof being one.
Wow! Your level of disclosure is refreshing. Thanks!
Posted by: Steve Cohen

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/30/08 12:15 PM

Joe,

Welcome. Great to see you here!
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 04/30/08 10:30 PM

W & L is not what I was referring to - that is a line under the control of Hailun.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Joe,

Can I clarify. Isn't W&L under the control of Peter Veletzky but just that their pianos are manufactured at the Hailun factory?
Posted by: Joe Bednar

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/01/08 07:28 AM

Keeferae....Yes, I meant the manufacture of the pianos - all Hailun made.
Posted by: Steve Cohen

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/01/08 04:42 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
Hailun, to give one example,has long been a high quality parts manufacturer exporting their products - mostly action parts - to several prominent European piano makers.
[/b]
Which ones?
Posted by: swampwiz

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/01/08 05:33 PM

Wait a minute. If I have been reading this correctly, Petrof will be getting Hailun to manufacture a new lower cost line called "Anton Petrof". Is this accurate? Or perhaps this "Anton Petrof" brand is the counterfeit brand that Petrof has been warning us about?
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/01/08 07:11 PM

 Quote:
Wait a minute. If I have been reading this correctly, Petrof will be getting Hailun to manufacture a new lower cost line called "Anton Petrof".
You haven't been reading correctly. This has already occurred, so 'will be getting' should be replaced by 'has gotten'.
Posted by: 88Key_PianoPlayer

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/01/08 07:23 PM

Ok... I don't have a Chinese piano, but I have played a few.

I have been very impressed with the Perzina uprights. I'm sure other people will agree that they have a nice bass tone (especially nice sustaining qualities) compared to many other uprights.
At NAMM a year ago, I wasn't all that impressed with a 55" Heintzman. A few months ago, I played a couple smaller Heintzmans at a Mason & Hamlin dealer in San Diego county, and I thought they were fairly good.
At a Baldwin dealer in San Diego, I played a few older Nordiska uprights. While they needed some mechanical work, I actually liked the tone.
I was quite unimpressed with the bass on a 7-foot Wurlitzer grand at the same store, though. My old upright, which I'm trying to get rid of, would almost blow it out of the water.
Also, given the choice between a 1950s US-made Baldwin Hamilton studio upright, or a current model 243 (US-made) or any of the H-series (Chinese) Hamiltons, I'd take the older Hamilton just about any day, provided it was at least in servicable and playable condition (i.e. didn't require major replacement of parts / refurbishing / etc).

One thing I was thinking (and wondering) about.... btw my mom has a Young Chang PG-150 baby grand that we got in April 1999, almost 10 years ago. (Serial # is G 116886, for those of you who wouldn't mind looking up the age, as my copy of the Pierce Atlas doesn't include that.) I'm thinking that the current Chinese pianos are very likely BETTER than my mom's 9+-year-old Korean piano, but what do you guys think?


edit/addendum: I was reading the last few posts, and people are talking about Chinese pianos in general, it seems like. I just read the topic title, and it's "Hailun pianos".
I don't have much, if any, experience with Hailun pianos. Is there a Hailun dealer in San Diego, CA, where I could go try some out and see for myself what some of you guys are so excited about? \:D
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/01/08 09:54 PM

Quote from JohnEB:
________________________________________
Both pianos are made in the same factory, but it *may* be that the Wendl & Lung has some additional input from one or more European designers. However this isn't clear at all.
________________________________________

Quote from Wzkit:
________________________________________
I played both the Hailun and Wendl & Lung side by side in the same showroom, and to the best of my ability, I could discern no noticeable difference in performance between the two. Apart from the name on the fallboard, both pianos were basically identical in touch and tone. Neither were the price differences significant.
________________________________________

Hi Joe,

Many issues have arisen from this long-running thread on Hailun and many answers are still "up in the air".

These two comments were taken from an earlier discussion in this thread. Just wondering, due to your affiliation to Hailun, whether you could shed some light on the relationship between Hailun and Wendl & Lung? Are their pianos really the same and the only difference is the name on the falboard?


Thanks!
Posted by: swampwiz

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/02/08 02:02 PM

Turandot, is the Anton Petrof basically a rename of the Roesler, Scholze or Weinbach?
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/02/08 05:55 PM

 Quote:
Turandot, is the Anton Petrof basically a rename of the Roesler, Scholze or Weinbach?
Wiz,

The information I have on this is second-hand. Joe Bednar is on the thread. Joe apparently represents both Hailun and Petrof. I'll defer to him. If he doesn't reappear here, you could send him a PM.
Posted by: borneo

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/06/08 09:18 AM

Hi, I am new in this forum and quite curious about Anton Petrof brand. Does anybody of you here know whether I could buy it in Germany?

I checked Petrof website and no remarks regarding this brand there (only Petrof, Rosler, Scholze, Weinbach).

Thanks for your comments.
Posted by: Geneva Intl Corp

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/06/08 02:04 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Bednar:
Turandot...thanks for the welcome. W & L is not what I was referring to - that is a line under the control of Hailun. My syntax was confusing... finished backs for Schimmel (May Berlin), whole pianos for Petrof under more than one name, Anton Petrof being one. [/b]
Joe,

Thanks for the information and VERIFICATION.
Posted by: Glenn Treibitz

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/06/08 04:14 PM

I was in the Hailun factory in July of 2006 and saw complete "Petrof" products being made and the they looked very authentic down to the design of the plate. At that time we also saw large numbers of parts that were being shipped to Petrof. So this association between the two companies is nothing new.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/06/08 04:21 PM

from Glenn Treibitz
 Quote:
I was in the Hailun factory in July of 2006 and saw complete "Petrof" products being made and the they looked very authentic down to the design of the plate. At that time we also saw large numbers of parts that were being shipped to Petrof. So this association between the two companies is nothing new.
UH - OH! Where's that deposition form?

Ever had a feeling you'd like to go to Wheeling.....?
\:D
Posted by: Always Wanted to Play Piano

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/06/08 10:25 PM

I paid a visit to Pianoforte Chicago today. As many of you know, they are a (the?) Wendl & Lung dealer. The guy who runs the show is a very friendly gentleman named Thomas Zoells. I thoroughly enjoyed the 45 minutes he gave me, answering my questions, listening to my situation, and suggesting possible avenues to follow as I consider what I'm going to buy to replace our old upright. I am fairly well convinced that I might not get the best price from him, but I am equally, if not more convinced that the post-sales support would probably justify the added up-front expense.

We talked about the Hailun and W&L connection. He maintains that the pianos are not identical. The key difference is that the W&L pianos are voiced in such a way as to appeal to the European audience to whom they are targeted. And to Americans who share the European taste for a more mellow, less shrill tone, this is worth the couple hundred dollars' premium over the Hailun upright.

I don't think there is any real news here, but wanted to share my experience nevertheless. There actually is a Tech shop in a Chicago suburb who claims to stock W&L. I might try to pay them a visit this weekend.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/06/08 11:18 PM

 Quote:
We talked about the Hailun and W&L connection. He maintains that the pianos are not identical. The key difference is that the W&L pianos are voiced in such a way as to appeal to the European audience to whom they are targeted.
Alwayswanted,

If you see the dealer again, it would be interesting to ask him if his W&L's come by way of Vienna or straight from China. On the first Hailun thread ....
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/17210.html

.....it was pointed out that W&L sold Hailun-made pianos in Europe and the W&L pianos passed through a final checkpoint in Vienna before distribution to the dealer network. At that time Steigerman Premium was the Hailun-built piano in the US market since Hailun didn't have their own dealer network up and running at that time.

I don't want to plod through that thread, but I'm 99% certain that Pianoforte in Chicago was mentioned even then (more than one year ago) as having W&L pianos. The question is why they had (have) them, since Chicago is not part of the European market.

If the price difference is only $200, then the dealer's comment makes sense. Yamaha C2 and Kemble 173 is another instance where two pianos are identical except for voicing, but the price difference is more than a few hundred dollars.

Hailun is pricing pretty aggressively in the US. If I were you, I would visit a Hailun dealer too to find out if the price difference is really that small.
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/07/08 03:05 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We talked about the Hailun and W&L connection. He maintains that the pianos are not identical. The key difference is that the W&L pianos are voiced in such a way as to appeal to the European audience to whom they are targeted.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alwayswanted,

It would be interesting if you could find out from the dealer whether there are any other differences beside voicing.

Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that W&L and Hailun pianos are identical. This is claimed by the dealer here as well but later he mentioned that the W&L 122 upright (which I eventually bought recently) has an aluminium plate right beneath the keyboard. Schwammer has kindly pointed out that this is for better regulation.

Also, the W&L pianos here are not shipped to Vienna and back to Asia for sales, according to the dealer here who sells W&L and Hailun side-by-side. Meanwhile, the W&L here is priced about 10% higher than a similar Hailun.
Posted by: PETROF, spol. s r. o.

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/07/08 07:45 AM

PETROF, spol. s r. o. denies that “the Hailun company is building an Anton Petrof line for Petrof”, it is not true. In its brand portfolio, PETROF has only 3 other brands: Rösler, Scholze and Weinbach, as you can see on the website:
- http://www.petrof.com/upright-pianos-other-upright-pianos.html?lang=2
- http://www.petrof.com/files/ke_stazeni/petrof-brand-english.pdf

Thank you for your understanding.

PETROF, spol. s r. o.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/07/08 09:01 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by PETROF, spol. s r. o.:
PETROF, spol. s r. o. denies that “the Hailun company is building an Anton Petrof line for Petrof”, it is not true. In its brand portfolio, PETROF has only 3 other brands: Rösler, Scholze and Weinbach, as you can see on the website:
- http://www.petrof.com/upright-pianos-other-upright-pianos.html?lang=2
- http://www.petrof.com/files/ke_stazeni/petrof-brand-english.pdf

Thank you for your understanding.

PETROF, spol. s r. o. [/b]
Posted by: Always Wanted to Play Piano

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/07/08 12:16 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
Alwayswanted,

If you see the dealer again, it would be interesting to ask him if his W&L's come by way of Vienna or straight from China. [/b]
I did indeed ask this very question. He told me he has a tech who went to Vienna to be trained by the W&L people there. His W&L's come straight from China, and get the same treatment here that they would if they stopped in Vienna first.

 Quote:
Originally posted by keeferae:

Alwayswanted,

It would be interesting if you could find out from the dealer whether there are any other differences beside voicing.

Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that W&L and Hailun pianos are identical. This is claimed by the dealer here as well but later he mentioned that the W&L 122 upright (which I eventually bought recently) has an aluminium plate right beneath the keyboard. Schwammer has kindly pointed out that this is for better regulation.

[/b]
Thank you for asking this, and for your additional information. Several times, while discussing the differences between Hailun and W&L, he mentioned that there were some "extra bells and whistles" the W&L pianos get. I ignored this the first time or two, but eventually I had to ask what those were. He said something vague like "hardware that has to do with regulation". I admit I am pretty much an idiot when it comes to all this stuff, and he probably (correctly) supposed it wouldn't be worth the time to go into detail. But my recollection of his explanation completely corresponds to what you wrote.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/07/08 01:12 PM

Hailun will be the company to watch.

Watch when they new 6'5 and 7' grands will hit the market....

Norbert \:o
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/07/08 01:39 PM

from Norbert
 Quote:
Hailun will be the company to watch.

Watch when they new 6'5 and 7' grands will hit the market....
Jeez,

Based on what you have said previously, I've got one eye reserved for Brodmann. Now I have to allocate the other to Hailun. I've run out of eyes just listening to you alone. What's a person to do? \:D

It reminds me of the old Latin American expression...'tiene un ojo en el infinito, y el otro en la p*** ******'
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/07/08 01:46 PM

turandot:

I thought it's:

"Siempre mantenga usted los ojos en la bella mujer, además de usted"....

Norbert ;\)
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/08/08 03:17 AM

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Several times, while discussing the differences between Hailun and W&L, he mentioned that there were some "extra bells and whistles" the W&L pianos get. I ignored this the first time or two, but eventually I had to ask what those were. He said something vague like "hardware that has to do with regulation".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Alwayswanted,

Thanks for sharing the information. There have been much talk (or speculation) about the relationship between W&L and Hailun but answers have been lacking.

Recently in this thread, I asked Joe Bednar (who said he is affiliated to Hailun) whether he could shed some light on the relationship but got no response.

From the information you provide, it seems there are indeed some "differences" between the W&Ls and Hailuns (at least in the uprights). But, not sure whether the "differences" can be considered significant or not or whether it has any bearing on the sound produced. Not sure also about the grands as my knowledge of pianos is limited, I must admit. Perhaps someone could step forward to enlighten all of us. Thanks.
Posted by: Always Wanted to Play Piano

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/08/08 11:33 AM

I plan on visiting ANRPiano tomorrow, a tech shop in the Chicago suburbs who also sells W&L uprights. (Strange, for a piano that has no North American distribution, that there are nevertheless two dealers representing it within 25 miles of each other...)

I'll ask some of these questions there, and report back.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/08/08 11:57 AM

Some differences between pianos can be easily seen. I remember in the original Hailun thread the Steigerman versions were described as having exclusive rights to the 'Bosendorfer' plate color \:\) . They also had the brass kickplate above the pedals on the vertical cabinet. I believe there was a difference in leg styles offered on the grands as well. These may be less significant than the voicing of the piano that you receive from the factory, the Viennese checkpoint, the retailer, or that you pay for directly yourself. Renner action options offered may be more extensive on W&L than on stock Hailun.

Member Schwammerl has a keen eye for these details. Maybe he'll stop by again.
Posted by: keeferae

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/08/08 10:01 PM

Quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
........to say that all new grand pianos under $50,000 have paint chips around the plate screws that don’t have washers under them and rough castings just don’t make sense to me. In fact, I’ve seen new Chinese made grand pianos that had flawless looking, beautiful plates without paint chips around the plate screws.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

This is taken from another thread: "Questionable quality on my Kawai" and was posted by Rickster. Thought this may provide some interest in this thread where quality issues regarding China-made pianos have been raised. Perhaps, this shows that quality is uneven among the many piano maufacturers in China and we need to be careful and selective when purchasing China-made pianos. Hence, it may not be fair to generalise all China-made pianos as of questionable quality.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/09/08 08:41 PM

We'll be getting our first batch of 6'5 Hailun grands here any time soon.

Will post an honest review after we've done normal prepping and setting them up.

We're also Brodmann dealers, so this will be very interesting - especially for us....

Norbert ;\)
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/09/08 09:55 PM

 Quote:
We'll be getting our first batch of 6'5 Hailun grands here any time soon.
Norbert,

This brings back fond memories of your long-anticipated Brodmann grands from Vienna that were in the cargo hold of the S.S. Demeter when it pulled into the port of Vancouver a few months ago. \:D

Looking back on this thread, I noticed that it now has 165 posts. Lots of different stuff, lots of different directions. It began with a new member post looking for advice on Feb. 10. The new member was suspected of not being genuine. Her photo of hew new piano was questioned too. Along the way it's been kept alive by discussion of Hailun pianos in Europe, in the US, in Canada, in Singapore, and more. We've had visits from the Phantom of the Opera (M&B), TW, K-Blank, Dino, Mario, BradKY, yourself, and even a rep from Hailun itself.

Since Hailun has never gotten slammed (except for M&B's facetious comment that his Hailun fell apart and he had to drop it off at Craigen's house for a quick rebuild \:D ), and since most opinions have been favorable, maybe Hailun Chen really did know what he was doing when he set up a marketing scheme that would have people asking questions about the many different Hailun fallboard names for years to come.
Posted by: ftp

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/09/08 10:07 PM

Turandot

I was surprised when I read that thousands of Hailuns had been sold. Perhaps that is the reason for all the attention.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/09/08 10:55 PM

from fathertopianist
 Quote:
I was surprised when I read that thousands of Hailuns had been sold. Perhaps that is the reason for all the attention.
I'm surprised to hear that myself. I had no idea. Does that include sales inside China?

I know this. They look good, play good, sound good, and at least for the moment, they are cheap! (inexpensive \:D )

Father,

It's appropriate that you should sign the thread guest register. You were the originator of the S. S. Demeter line that I stole from you. That still cracks me up whenever I think of it. Not enough humor here lately.
Posted by: Rod Verhnjak

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/10/08 12:18 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
[QUOTE]

Since Hailun has never gotten slammed (except for M&B's facetious comment that his Hailun fell apart and he had to drop it off at Craigen's house for a quick rebuild \:D ), and since most opinions have been favorable [/b]
If someone came on here and said they saw a Hailun and were not impressed, they would get a strip ripped off them, so some may not want to share their thoughts even if they have them.
This forum is only nice if you are.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/10/08 12:53 AM

I don't think I can buy that Rod. Some of the opinions come from people who don't sell them and don't own them. I don't own one or sell them, but I'm impressed. Craigen doesn't sell them. Jeff Bauer and Rich Galassini don't sell them, but do sell brands that compete with them. There was a thread on the tech forum where a tech asked for opinions of a good comtemporary Chinese line. The answers came from techs. The brand that got mentioned was Hailun, in more than one reply.

If you don't like Hailun, you should come out and say it. Might be good to say why. I don't see much sense in speculating about 'niceness' and a some kind of silent majority afraid to speak out.
Posted by: Rod Verhnjak

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/10/08 03:12 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
If you don't like Hailun, you should come out and say it. Might be good to say why. I don't see much sense in speculating about 'niceness' and a some kind of silent majority afraid to speak out. [/b]
I've only seen one Hailun that was uncrated and set up with no prep this piano was being exhibited at a conference. So I do not have enough experience to judge one way or another.

I don't agree with everything I read on this forum, some stuff I read is plain spin. I generally don't say anything if I disagree with a point of view about a certain product, why? I don't need the criticism of another opposing view and then get into a fight about it. So perhaps there are others that feel the same way, perhaps not, and I am the only one with thin skin.

It was just a thought. :rolleyes:
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/10/08 09:51 AM

Hey Rod,

A piano from China set up as a conference exhibit with no prep doesn't sound like a great idea. I hope they had a 'Do not touch' sign on it.

I agree with you about the spin. It would be impossible for a thread this long not to have been coaxed along with a little spin. Maybe someone will come in and start taking a sledgehammer to Hailun. Of course that could be spin too.

Personally, I don't think you have thin skin. You always seem to keep your cool. Maybe you're a reptile. \:D
Posted by: Frank

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/10/08 05:13 PM

Hi Rod,
I think I read here somewhere you will at PTG Conference at Anaheim this summer.
Possible Hailun will be there, I know we wil be.
I know many will be. Pop around and have a look.
Prepped or not, it will give you a taste.
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/10/08 05:23 PM

When we make a decision to carry a brand, we look at a lot more factors than one single piano by the maker.

In fact, those who *do* are often the ones condemned to lag behind in this industry, similiarly to a tourist visitng a country and making a judgement on its people after meeting the first passport officer.

For us, it's at least as important to look at the people[/b] and especially the brains of the owner[/b]of a company.

Here's an excerpt by Yat-Lam Hong RPT, who wrote this in the latest Piano Technician's Journal, dated April 2008:

 Quote:
If you know Mr. Chen [owner of Hailun] in any depth, you'll come away with one or two distinct impressions. If you like the guy, you'd call him a 'visionary'. If you don't, you'd call him a 'megalomaniac'. What you think of him makes no difference to him, one one thing is certain.If I were a pianomanufacturer,I'd start getting very nervous right now. Formidable competition is on its way. So,is Hailun the best Chinese piano today? I don't know. But if it isn't it has to rank among the very best China has to offer. If you ever have an opportunity to check out this piano, don't miss it.[/b]
Norbert
Posted by: Rod Verhnjak

Re: Hailun pianos - 05/10/08 06:19 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Frank:
Hi Rod,
I think I read here somewhere you will at PTG Conference at Anaheim this summer.
Possible Hailun will be there, I know we wil be.
I know many will be. Pop around and have a look.
Prepped or not, it will give you a taste. [/b]
Yes I will be there.
The confirmed exhibiting manufactures as of now are:

Baldwin
Bluthner
Boston
Charles Walter
Essex
Feurich
Hailun
Heintzman
Kawai
Mason & Hamlin
Pearl River
Petrof
Ravenscroft
Samick
Sauter
Steingraeber & Sohne
Steinway & Sons
Yamaha
Young Chang

Did I miss any?
Posted by: Ken Francis

Re: Hailun pianos - 10/10/08 12:02 AM

I am looking forward to the delivery of a Hailun H1E in December; instant gratification aside, I am moving in November and didn't want to have to move the piano in twice, so I purchased via a layaway plan so I wouldn't succumb to the temptation to have it delivered to the old house now. I am patiently waiting for December to roll around...
Anyone else make a recent Hailun purchase?
I'd like to hear some impressions from recent Hailun purchasers.
Thanks in Advance!

C. Ken Francis
A true newbie piano student
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 10/10/08 01:32 AM

 Quote:
I'd like to hear some impressions from recent Hailun purchasers.
Me too.

Too bad that the last three of our last pianist customers this week alone aren't reading here.

Perhaps it wopuld help if this website would also appear in German, Vietnamese and Chinese.....

Norbert ;\)
Posted by: Ken Francis

Re: Hailun pianos - 10/20/08 04:53 PM

Posted by: Vigelic

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/03/09 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: turandot
Hi Dave,

I'm interested in your personal connection to the Bernstein fallboard name. Does Bernstein distribute to independent Australian retailers or does it have its own retail locations? I'm curious because in the South Asia market there seems to be a big overlap in the availablility of Hailun pianos. For example, I've read in this forum that Hailun, W&L, Bernstein, and Wagner can all be found in Singapore. In the US we had availability almost exclusively through the upgraded Steigerman Premiums that Dino described. That was basically on the East and West Coast. Now we have HailunUSA filling out a dealer network in all regions and competing pretty aggressively on price. Very recently, I saw a retailer website where the only new piano line represented was Wagner, but I have no idea if that's the Hailun-built Wagner that is sold in Asia. (Dino, please correct me if I've got it wrong here.)


I don't know about Bernstein and Wagner in Singapore, but yes W&L and Hailun are sold side by side in the same showroom from the same dealer - however, they've been careful to ensure that models of the same height do not overlap. They carry a 122cm W&L and a 125cm Hailun but do not sell the opposite (ie. they claimed they would not sell a 125cm W&L or a 122cm Hailun as it wouldn't make any sense)
Posted by: ChrisVenables

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/03/09 03:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Vigelic
W&L and Hailun are sold side by side in the same showroom from the same dealer - however, they've been careful to ensure that models of the same height do not overlap. They carry a 122cm W&L and a 125cm Hailun but do not sell the opposite (ie. they claimed they would not sell a 125cm W&L or a 122cm Hailun as it wouldn't make any sense)


That's because W & L don't have a 125 and Hailun, under the Hailun brand, don't make a 122, well, only for W & L.

The Hailun 125 cm is available in two qualities. The 125 has the more basic design of hitch pin in the bass section and pressure bar in the main and treble sections, whereas the H5 (125 frame) has agraffes.

Currently, I believe the only models which overlap are the 110, 115 upright and 161, 178 grands (depending on availability/distribution rights in the particular country in question).
Posted by: jrcallan

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/03/09 09:05 PM

Just a point of correction.

I believe Rich Galassini does sell Hailun pianos.

Check the web site.
Posted by: Vigelic

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/04/09 04:25 AM

Also, sorry for resurrecting this thread, but I notice that sweetkeys bought her hailun a long time ago at the start of this thread. Can she or anyone who bought one shed some light as to how their hailun pianos are performing after all this time so far?

I've recently bought one too, it has yet to be delivered but will be delivered tomorrow. It's a HL 125.

Might include pictures here after I get it. (if available)
Posted by: Steve Cohen

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/04/09 03:59 PM

I can tell you with absolute certainty that Larry Fine will have a new bi-annual publication out later this summer. Entitled the Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer, it will replace his Annual Suppements. I have been working with Larry on this project for the past 6 months.

In it, Hailun and a number of other brands will be rated differently than in previous Fine publications. In the case of Hailun, rest assured the "difference" will be an upgrade.

A formal announcement is planned for end June.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/04/09 11:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Steve Cohen
I can tell you with absolute certainty that Larry Fine will have a new bi-annual publication out later this summer. Entitled the Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer, it will replace his Annual Suppements. I have been working with Larry on this project for the past 6 months.

In it, Hailun and a number of other brands will be rated differently than in previous Fine publications. In the case of Hailun, rest assured the "difference" will be an upgrade.

A formal announcement is planned for end June.


Nice gig Steve! Congrats!

You should have treated yourself to your own thread though. Sweetkeys is a tough act to follow! grin
Posted by: C.Y.

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/05/09 11:02 AM


Does this icon in your website mean no Chinese pianos?
Posted by: Hop

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/05/09 11:59 AM

Steve,

Thanks for the heads-up on the new book. I was considering purchasing the 2000 book, but will wait to see the new one. Recently, I bought a Hailun HG 178, so it will be curious to me where Fine rates it. It would not, however, affect my choice (not then, not now). I think that rating good or better pianos is so subjective that it's not possible to compare many of them. (Which is better, a Rolls Royce or a Porche?) What I like in ratings is an analysis of things to look or listsen for: light touch; sustain; ringing in treble; power/presence in bass; bright tone; mellow tone; etc. Then I can better appreciate what each instrument has to offer.

About 18 months ago I played a number of Steinway Grands at your Midlothian Rd. location in Richmond. I really liked them, but after the stock market crash I didn't feel comfortable buying one. Good thing I really like my Hailun!

Hop
Posted by: Rank Piano Amateur

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/05/09 02:11 PM

Steve: I will be very interested to read the book; I purchase and read the Supplements every year. I hope that the book is careful to disclose the details of your relationship with the piano industry, as it is important to know something about the authors when they are evaluating different brands in what is bound, at least on some level, to be a subjective process. CY's post, above, underlines my interest. Given your apparent attitude towards Chinese pianos, and other threads in which you have participated in the past as an expert on certain brands, such full disclosure will be all the more important.
Posted by: Vigelic

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/05/09 02:20 PM

the photos i promised..

the delivery men installing the heater bar...


the tuning man tuning the piano


all done. hmm.


somehow PW forums dont allow my photos to show at its full res of 1024x768.. or maybe its just my monitor.. regardless, i hope this is not a decision i'd regret =\ its all i can afford anyway so what the heck.
Posted by: Vigelic

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/06/09 01:15 PM

how do i clean the white & black keys?
Posted by: Jeff Clef

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/06/09 04:07 PM

Is that a real question? I happen to know; just looked it up on the Kawai website when I needed to clean my keys. Two light squirts of Windex on a barely-damp, soft cotton handkerchief. You might try the damp cloth without the windex, it might be enough. Just enough dampness on the cloth so that it dries immediately and no water drools between the keys.

PS- no Brasso, no harsh solvents or abrasives, especially no furniture polish (like Pledge) or anything else that contains silicone, which damages the action
Posted by: Vigelic

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/28/09 01:01 PM

this is weird. some keys have a 2nd sound when being sustained.

is this normal? for example, the C one octave above the middle C plays that note when I strike it and let go. but if i strike it and hold it (or hold the sustain pedal), after a few seconds i start hearing a weird trembling sound on top of the sound of the note. okay, not really weird trembling but like a ringing kinda sound.. like some other part is vibrating as well along with the string for that note..

should I call the tuner back? was it a bad tuning or what =(
Posted by: pno

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/28/09 01:44 PM



Is it this icon? grin
Posted by: Norbert

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/28/09 02:58 PM

Hailun, Hailun, Hailun.

We must have been out of our mind when we dicovered this brand a while back and immediately became dealers....

Norbert
Posted by: ChrisVenables

Re: Hailun pianos - 06/28/09 05:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Vigelic
this is weird. some keys have a 2nd sound when being sustained.

is this normal? for example, the C one octave above the middle C plays that note when I strike it and let go. but if i strike it and hold it (or hold the sustain pedal), after a few seconds i start hearing a weird trembling sound on top of the sound of the note. okay, not really weird trembling but like a ringing kinda sound.. like some other part is vibrating as well along with the string for that note..

should I call the tuner back? was it a bad tuning or what =(


I thought Norbert would have been able to incorporate the answer to this in his earlier enthusiastic response..

I have only your description of the unusual sound as 'weird' as information. I think it is probably just the fact that any undamped strings, ie the top two octaves vibrating in sympathy with the note being played, or, when the sustain pedal is employed, all the notes vibrate in sympathy, is the sound you are hearing. Alternatively, if the middle pedal is depressed, then sometimes the celeste felt can create a secondary strike on the strings, resulting in a 'harmonic' overtone.

It's probably nothing to worry about - best just to ask your tuner to check it out. The earlier the better.
Posted by: Vigelic

Re: Hailun pianos - 07/04/09 07:04 PM

apparently i figured it out.. the front piece of wood (the one with the fallboard attached to it) has a lock at the top left and top right side inside the piano that has a spring release mechanism to lock and unlock..

everytime i hit the middle F or the F one octave above it the top right lock vibrates along with the note.. i unlocked and relocked it and it seems to have solved the prob.. =\

thanks for the replies... hope it doesn't happen again =\