Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters)

Posted by: Ken Knapp

Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 07:07 PM

As most of you know we had a recent incident with a publicly outed sock puppet.

There were many opinions on how the matter should be handled. Some thought that the humiliation was enough punishment, while others thought banning was appropriate.

Well, in order to seek out what was appropriate action, I went to the rules. It was then I discovered that the rules MAKE NO MENTION of sock puppets, nor did I find it stated abywhere "Do this and you will be banned". Pretty much it's been left up to the discretion of Frank B. and the moderator(s) of the forum to decide what action is proper in most circumstances. This has worked well and will continue to be practiced until such a time as Frank B. and the moderators deem it necessary to revise/rewtrite the rules.

In the matter of socks, though, we are taking a stand. There will be ZERO tolerance for sock puppets. Be a sock and be banned. Period.

If you are a sock or have a sock and have not been discovered, pick ONE user account and and use it exclusively. Do not ever use the other screen name again.

ANYONE CAUGHT USING A SOCK PUPPET WILL BE BANNED ONCE DISCOVERED! NO matter who you are.

Two members have been banned as of today due to the use of sock puppets. They are:
Pianomadam, using the sock of cklavier, and TheFakeLarryFine, using the sock of threebees.

Thank you everyone for your patience.

Ken
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 07:37 PM

Thank you, Ken (and Frank) for your follow-through on this issue. I agree with your stance completely and think PW will be better as a result of implementing this policy.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 07:50 PM

good job - thank you
Posted by: TX-Dennis

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 07:57 PM

An excellent solution, if a bit slow in coming. \:D
Posted by: turandot

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 07:58 PM

Fake's [Threebees] last post is up on the board right now. It ends with a plea to "Promote this junior member to platinum." I'm not sure what you've done is what he had in mind. \:D
Posted by: Bear 1

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 07:59 PM

Fantastic! Thanks Ken and Frank... Fair and balanced.

Bear
Posted by: DanLaura Larson

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 08:05 PM

Thank you so much guys We have found this site to be of great help on lots of subjects and are very happy that we can continue to find it so.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 08:14 PM

Arrrrgh

Fake has posted since he was banned. I hope the banning isn't a voluntary participation thing. \:D
Posted by: Ken Knapp

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 08:23 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by turandot:
Arrrrgh

Fake has posted since he was banned. I hope the banning isn't a voluntary participation thing. \:D [/b]
No. \:D It's not voluntary. Perhaps Frank missed one, or didn't push all the buttons yet. If so he will see this topic and act. \:\)

Ken
Posted by: U S A P T

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 09:05 PM

I remember when I changed my nick to part of my REAL name. Suddenly everyone thought I was Norbert. I quickly went back and used this made-up name to save his reputation.
Posted by: Horowitzian

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 09:10 PM

Thanks, too! Dang, I hadn't even known about that Fake Larry Fine guy using a puppet...all I'd seen some of his rather boorish posts under that name.

Did he get caught with his pants down like Pianomadam? \:D
Posted by: Steve Cohen

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 09:17 PM

Sounds right to me.

Thanks for making a hard call.
Posted by: Ken Knapp

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 09:32 PM

Horwitzian - no, a member pointed similarities in their posts so I looked further and made the discovery.

Steve - You're right, it was a hard call. In the long run I think it will be best for Piano World.

Ken
Posted by: Horowitzian

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 10:27 PM

Thanks for the info, Ken. \:\)

Cheers!
Posted by: Pianomadam

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/27/09 11:19 PM

Goodbye all and best of luck ;\)
Posted by: scepticalforumguy

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 03:54 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Knapp:
As most of you know we had a recent incident with a publicly outed sock puppet.

There were many opinions on how the matter should be handled. Some thought that the humiliation was enough punishment, while others thought banning was appropriate.

Well, in order to seek out what was appropriate action, I went to the rules. It was then I discovered that the rules MAKE NO MENTION of sock puppets, nor did I find it stated abywhere "Do this and you will be banned". [/b]
...so then why isn't everyone given a fair chance as of the decision? If there was no mention of sock puppets in the rules, it would appear that Pianomadam was playing within those rules at that time, as were a number of other individuals that hadn't been caught.

Although I don't have a personal interest in having Pianomadam nor TFLF stay, it seems that banning them for previous behaviour is punishing them for breaking rules that were not (and still are not) in place.

Does this mean then, that it is open season for exposing the rest of the culprits on here?

Is this action sent as a warning to only to future offenders, or can we/should we hunt around and look for socks in the history and then report them to the mods?

Please understand that I am all for enforcing the rules, but I believe the action taken in this case is not an example of that taking place, but rather a response to some very emotional reactions to an event with a self-serving member.

Also, I think it wise to remember that this forum, since it includes dealers and technicians, will always include advice/opinions/FUD tactics from many more undiscovered, and slightly more crafty Pianomadams. This is one of the reasons Piano World will remain a very dangerous place to those seeking honest and impartial guidance or advice. Not that there isn't some excellent advice given on here, but really, how many new piano buyers can separate the real information from the clever obfuscation? And how many new piano buyers will be influenced by how many positive hits brand x has compared to the negative hits brand y has?


Interesting to see how everything plays out from here...
Posted by: AJB

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 04:22 AM

How interesting.

I am sure that some of the more enterprising among us will now see this as a challenge. Let the sock puppetry entertainment commence.

It is surely not difficult for a determined sock. One id at home, one at work, two different IP addresses. Apparently router IP addresses can also be changed quite easily (necessary if a sockie is rumbled).

I would love to know how many memberships lie dormant, registered eons ago, just waiting for sock activation.

That said, I am glad that a clear policy has been put in place.

Well done Ken and Frank
Posted by: Ken Knapp

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 06:00 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by newguyonforum:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Knapp:
As most of you know we had a recent incident with a publicly outed sock puppet.

There were many opinions on how the matter should be handled. Some thought that the humiliation was enough punishment, while others thought banning was appropriate.

Well, in order to seek out what was appropriate action, I went to the rules. It was then I discovered that the rules MAKE NO MENTION of sock puppets, nor did I find it stated abywhere "Do this and you will be banned". [/b]
...so then why isn't everyone given a fair chance as of the decision? If there was no mention of sock puppets in the rules, it would appear that Pianomadam was playing within those rules at that time, as were a number of other individuals that hadn't been caught.

Although I don't have a personal interest in having Pianomadam nor TFLF stay, it seems that banning them for previous behaviour is punishing them for breaking rules that were not (and still are not) in place.

Does this mean then, that it is open season for exposing the rest of the culprits on here?

Is this action sent as a warning to only to future offenders, or can we/should we hunt around and look for socks in the history and then report them to the mods?

Please understand that I am all for enforcing the rules, but I believe the action taken in this case is not an example of that taking place, but rather a response to some very emotional reactions to an event with a self-serving member.

Also, I think it wise to remember that this forum, since it includes dealers and technicians, will always include advice/opinions/FUD tactics from many more undiscovered, and slightly more crafty Pianomadams. This is one of the reasons Piano World will remain a very dangerous place to those seeking honest and impartial guidance or advice. Not that there isn't some excellent advice given on here, but really, how many new piano buyers can separate the real information from the clever obfuscation? And how many new piano buyers will be influenced by how many positive hits brand x has compared to the negative hits brand y has?


Interesting to see how everything plays out from here... [/b]
No, it's not. As I said in my original post it was always up to the moderator(s) and Frank B. how situations should be handled. There have been people banned as socks in the past. The problem was that everyone was screaming that the rules were broken and there was not an actual rule. I do not for one minute believe that anyone playing sock puppet believed that it was ok to do. Especially with all the talk on here over the years about it. And with all the talk about "why don't they enforce the rules", I never saw anybody say, "wait a munute, there's no rule against it". Nobody checked for themselves - it was all assumed. Now it's not.

This was a tough decision and all you've said was taken into consideration. It's easy when you're dealing with mean people. Neither of these people are mean.

Ken
Posted by: Sir Lurksalot

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 07:45 AM

While the rules don't specifically prohibit socks, they do prohibit self-promotion. IMO, having just re-read the rules, PM was guilty of violating several of them - sublty and indirectly, yes - but perhaps that's even worse.

Regardless of all that, not banning PM would have made a sad statement about the importance of truth, accuracy, and credibility on this forum.
Posted by: Steve Chandler

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 09:57 AM

I spoke out about enforcing the rules, but always assumed there was one. As Ken noted this subject has come up many times so there is no doubt in my mind that the guilty parties knew the potential consequences. I am very pleased to know that there is now a clear policy and that those who have been caught have suffered an appropriate consequence. PW will be a better place for this. Thank you.
Posted by: tanjinjack

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 10:22 AM

Ken,

I see no addition of rules about sock puppeting.
The sticky on Piano Forum for Industry Pros and the rules & guidelines at the What's Hot section has no change as well.

I believe it's wise to add them so that future dealers that join PW can learn that PW don't tolerate sock puppeting.

Thank you.
Posted by: WillisWill

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 10:26 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Pianomadam:
Goodbye all and best of luck ;\) [/b]
I'm sure we'll see you soon
Posted by: windsound

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 11:24 AM

Thank you, Ken and Frank.
Posted by: Rickster

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 11:37 AM

It has always amazed me why someone would do such a thing (sock-puppeting) in the first place. In fact, it took me a while to figure out what a sock-puppet was to start with. (PW is indeed an educational institution \:D )

I don’t know… maybe I’m just gullible. Thanks for protecting the gullible, Ken and Frank.

Rick
Posted by: 88Key_PianoPlayer

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 11:49 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Lurksalot:
While the rules don't specifically prohibit socks, they do prohibit self-promotion. IMO, having just re-read the rules, PM was guilty of violating several of them - sublty and indirectly, yes - but perhaps that's even worse.

Regardless of all that, not banning PM would have made a sad statement about the importance of truth, accuracy, and credibility on this forum. [/b]
From http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/9462.html :
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano World:
Stop the Self-Promotion![/b]
It is NOT ACCEPTABLE[/b] for you to create posts thinly disguised as an innocent discussion when in fact they are nothing more than a promotion for your business.

If you make a genuine effort to be honest and helpful, you just may pick up some business because people trust you. That's fine, I have no problem with that. Anything beyond that, see our Professional Advertising options.

Some Guidelines:[/b]

Not Necessarily Self Promotion...[/b]
If a private individual is enthusiastic about a brand and talks about it a lot, it's not self-promotion. (quick side question about this one... I am self-employed as a piano tuner/technician, and an associate member of PTG. (I used to briefly (for a couple weeks or so) work for a local Baldwin dealer before Ric Overton bought them, and around the same time lost my job tuning for a local Steinway/Yamaha dealer due to "conflict of interest".) I happen to like Baldwin Hamilton studio upright pianos, especially older ones like late 1940s to early 1960s, and often post to that effect. Would I fall into the category of this rule, or since I am a technician, have worked for a Baldwin dealer in the past, and happen to currently own two aforementioned pianos, should I be more careful?)

Now for what we do consider self-promotion:[/b]

*snip*
If you're in the business and hide yourself behind an alias[/b] to talk down/up a brand you're self promoting.
*snip*

This is not all encompassing and there can be exceptions to the cases stated above, but this is a general idea on how we view the subject.
And I'm actually in the same boat Rickster is/was... I'm not sure I even know what a sock puppet is[/b]!
Posted by: ScottM

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 11:55 AM

What would be fun is to set up a forum division (the only one) where banned sock puppets can post whatever they want. That way, for kicks, the rest of us can visit there and know the environment we're in. I'm not afraid of sock puppets. We just have to give them their own little fishbowl where we can observe them for our entertainment.
Posted by: honkytonk

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 02:16 PM

So is Norbert banned too?
Posted by: Bob Newbie

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 02:30 PM

The only sock puppet I like is Lamb Chop(Shari Lewis) \:D \:D
Posted by: scharlott

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 04:18 PM

Hi guys! I think I can deduce what a sock puppet is, but I have not seen an actual definition in this thread. Is that where one person assumes two or more identities then stages exchanges between them, generally as a form of self-promotion? If that is correct, it strikes me as dishonest on its face - seems like a good idea to ban it.
Brad
Posted by: Kenny Blankenship

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 04:55 PM

As one who as pushed the envelope and perhaps been a bit too crass. I will say good call, fair and balanced. Honky, I don't know if Norbert ever hid behind an IP? He may shill and push his stuff right up to the limit of Ken's patience like (some of) the rest of us, but I'm not sure he ever could be considered a sock??? And Steve you were right the other site is not very "interesting."
Posted by: AJB

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 05:15 PM

I wish Pianomadwoman had said in her terminal post "So long, and thanks for all the fish".

Perhaps she will resurface as Phoenix.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 07:20 PM

or someone from another country.

egads
Posted by: gutenberg

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 07:44 PM

Thanks Frank and Ken. Maybe not an easy call, but the right one IMO.
Posted by: Piano*Dad

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 07:57 PM

 Quote:
Perhaps she will resurface as Phoenix.
More likely as Marvin.

.
.
.
\:D
Posted by: doremi

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 08:58 PM

If she resurfaces, it would be easy to recognize her, because of her amazingly low level of piano knowledge.
Posted by: U S A P T

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 10:40 PM

I know. That's why I thought she couldn't be a Steinway rep. I figured she was a male used-car salesman.
Posted by: U S A P T

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/28/09 10:42 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by ScottM:
What would be fun is to set up a forum division (the only one) where banned sock puppets can post whatever they want. [/b]
There IS just such a place. It's called The New Coffee Room (www.coffee-room.com).
Posted by: TheSockPuppet

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/29/09 07:42 AM

Ken,

Are you new at this? Is the power going to your head? What is this extreme act all of a sudden over a relatively trivial non-existent rule?

As a SockPuppet myself I am highly offended by this anti-SockPuppet discrimination. I insist PW immediately write a SockPuppet Bill or Rights and start a SockPuppet anti-defamation league.

I’ll bet that every participant in this thread has registered themselves on PW more than once at one time. What exactly is the big crime? Most of the time people just forgot their password or did not realize they could change their name otherwise. Anything could be abused. A person could actually participate as more than one person at the same time, be a dealer or post while they were banned. But Ken said these people were not being mean suggesting they were doing anything else wrong.

You all need to lighten up. This is the internet. Nothing is real. Most people have made up names. There has been a concern that the piano world need to attract more people. One way to do that is develop a sense of humor and not take things so seriously.

In light of that, here is a joke for you all.

Q. What is the only thing lower on piano world than a sock puppet?

A. A Samick, Young Chang, Hailun piano dealer.

(I hope none of the PW moderators sell these. I do not know for sure.)
Posted by: apple*

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/29/09 09:20 AM

i saw several socks yesterday.. admittedly they will stay and be their cheap selves, taking advantage of hospitality and good will.

does anyone ever wonder why a certain piano brand is always mentioned in thread titles?

there really is not too much that can be done.

they'll probably go to Hades for their dishonesty.
Posted by: Marty in Minnesota

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/29/09 10:18 AM

To TheSockPuppet,

People do not need to be "mean" to be deceitful.

I, and the majority of the posters, have never used a dual identity. I see no reason. I am who I am. I think that is typical of the majority, and not the minority.

I find your "joke" to be mean. Attemped humor often is.

Thank you Ken, for your decision.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/29/09 10:34 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by TheSockPuppet:
Ken,

Are you new at this? Is the power going to your head? What is this extreme act all of a sudden over a relatively trivial non-existent rule?

As a SockPuppet myself I am highly offended by this anti-SockPuppet discrimination. I insist PW immediately write a SockPuppet Bill or Rights and start a SockPuppet anti-defamation league.

I’ll bet that every participant in this thread has registered themselves on PW more than once at one time. What exactly is the big crime? Most of the time people just forgot their password or did not realize they could change their name otherwise. Anything could be abused. A person could actually participate as more than one person at the same time, be a dealer or post while they were banned. But Ken said these people were not being mean suggesting they were doing anything else wrong.

You all need to lighten up. This is the internet. Nothing is real. Most people have made up names. There has been a concern that the piano world need to attract more people. One way to do that is develop a sense of humor and not take things so seriously.

In light of that, here is a joke for you all.

Q. What is the only thing lower on piano world than a sock puppet?

A. A Samick, Young Chang, Hailun piano dealer.

(I hope none of the PW moderators sell these. I do not know for sure.) [/b]
ajahns [aka TheSockPuppet],

Yes, for some odd unexplained reason a couple of your posts still show you as ajahns. I wonder what motivated you to change your screen name to TheSockPuppet. Some folks need to get attention any way that they can. Does that apply to you?

FWIW, I believe Pianomadam forced the hand of PW to apply an interpretation to a self-promotion rule that is certainly understandable, but had not been used before. Pianomadam's one-trick-pony agenda for the Steinway family of brands was unimaginative and boring. She had grated the nerves of several of the pious regulars here posting under her own avatar. When she got caught manipulating a sock, it inspired hundreds of retaliatory posts.

Pianomadam stated that she did not trash other brands. Although she constantly alluded to Steinway brand superiority, it is true that she did not trash other brands. She was also a model of polite language and composure even when being assailed for her litany of talking points.

My guess is that the outing of ThreeBees [Fake.....] gave the mods an opportunity to apply this new interpretation of the self-promotion rule without singling out Pianomadam. I believe that's the reason why Pianomadam was left twisting in the wind so long while her fate was being decided. When Fake / Threebees was researched and proven, the rule could be applied to more than one puppeteer.

Incidentally, a day after being banned, Fake was doing research on old Hailun threads according to the thread view page here. Perhaps banned members can still use the search function under their banned avatar. Whatever, I suspect Fake is reloading his pop gun for another run at Hailun with a new avatar. Maybe he'll call himself SockPuppet2.

You mentioned something about being mean. If you read one of Fake's last posts here on the recent trade-in thread, http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/25577/2.html#000034,

he made the following 'mean' comment to a member who had bought a Hailun piano.

 Quote:
The only thing that got "liquidated" is your checking account. Are you trying to kill the dealers around here with laughter? That's a new strategy. The markup on that piece of furniture was at least $2k. And you think you got a deal because he gave you $200 for your trade in. That's the oldest trick in the book.

Dealer tears have been streaming down the PW topic list. Are the good times gone forever? I guess not guys, look at this. This one bought a Helium out of piano dealer pity. The piano dealer good times are here again.

Promote this junior member to platinum.
Fake is one of several curious members here to take shots at Hailun pianos (as opposed to other lesser brands of pianos from China that are not factoring all that much into piano sales in the US). One might surmise that Hailun is considered a threat to some of those who sell against it, rather than being a singularly deficient piano from China.

You have ended with a tasteless and stupid joke about Hailun, Samick and Young Chang. What do you sell?
Posted by: Glenn Treibitz

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/29/09 04:27 PM

Thanks guys for the new sock puppet rules and enforcement.

I came under fire from a sock, I recognized the writing style as someone I knew and had the moderators quietly deal with it in a non public way. Some of you may remember that Three B's and I had a run in. Something was off about him and a number of you private messaged me when the Fake Larry fine showed up that he sounds suspiciously like Three Bs. Good detctive work guys!
Posted by: apple*

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/29/09 08:20 PM

if I'm not mistaken, you can only change your name once.

I added a star to mine for a silly reason, and couldn't take it off.

apparently people have changed their names many times. Some threads just invite me to review the recent posts of a poster.. just to see if they are legit... and the names change alot when the person is phishing.
Posted by: The Boy Next Door

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/29/09 10:42 PM

I'm not a forum person mostly and alter would be the word i would have used so i didn't get what did you mean by a sock for some time so reading about zero tolerance towards socks and sock owners really made me think that OP had a good batch of LSD. : )

btw, ppm1994 and gyro are probably the same person. Did anyone realize that too?
Posted by: RickG

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/29/09 11:41 PM

Well, I feel like a fool in that I wanted to believe PianoMadam. I thought she was sincere in her apology, but I was wrong. I try to give people the benefit of the the doubt. I do agree with the new policy. Thanks to Frank et all!
Posted by: Jeff Bauer

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 12:37 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by TheSockPuppet:
In light of that, here is a joke for you all.

Q. What is the only thing lower on piano world than a sock puppet?

A. A Samick, Young Chang, Hailun piano dealer.

(I hope none of the PW moderators sell these. I do not know for sure.) [/b]
Posted by: scharlott

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 07:03 AM

I'm the one who got blasted by "Fake Larry" in the quote above. His comments were so over-the-top, I had to wonder if he is deranged.

Brad
Posted by: Piano*Dad

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 07:33 AM

Ah, Jeff, I had never seen that one. It's perfect, right down to the knowing smirk on the paperclip's 'face.' \:D
Posted by: David-G

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 07:52 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
I added a star to mine for a silly reason, and couldn't take it off. [/b]
I always thought your star was rather distinguished...
Posted by: mdsdurango

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 09:14 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by David-G:
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
I added a star to mine for a silly reason, and couldn't take it off. [/b]
I always thought your star was rather distinguished... [/b]
Me too.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 09:29 AM

oh thanks.. you can call me apple.

i had a sock puppet once for a couple weeks, I don't remember his name or password.. i can't even find it.

please assign me some penance.
Posted by: Scherzophrenic

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 09:33 AM

While I wouldn't use a sock puppet on this site, there are sites (political) where I have used a sock puppet when an egregiously stupid poster says something that requires his stupidity to be mocked in a fashion that only a sock puppet will do, effectively. For example, when posting on a site where some college kid with a big vocabulary tried to BS everyone, I created a College Kid with a Big Vocab sock puppet, in order to mock him with all the big words I was making up as I mocked him.
Posted by: turandot

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 10:03 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
oh thanks.. you can call me apple.

i had a sock puppet once for a couple weeks, I don't remember his name or password.. i can't even find it.

please assign me some penance. [/b]
So, your sock puppet was a male. Too funny!!

I hope the management reports your penance publicly. \:D
Posted by: apple*

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 10:17 AM

it would be so interesting if the data entered in our profile information could be sorted, so one could actually search by IP address. some of the dealers have been doing it for so long, they probably have 20 socks.

(one of the most entertaining was also the nastiest... stephen - boy was he funny.. very smart)
Posted by: Plowboy

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 12:59 PM

How effective is it to use IP addresses? Don't the majority connect to the Internets with dynamic IP addresses issued by their ISP?
Posted by: apple*

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 01:29 PM

it is extraordinarily tedious to search by address.. one can spot them tho.
Posted by: Scherzophrenic

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 02:27 PM

Apple, was your sock puppet a good puppet or a bad puppet? \:\)
Posted by: AJB

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 03:15 PM

Gary - I asked this question and Ken said that the router we use at home/work is the IP address that is tracked rather than the dynamic one on the computer itself.

My router and ISP link provides the facility for me to change the router IP address at will (not that I do - no need), so I am not sure how effective the tracking system is.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 03:49 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Scherzophrenic:
Apple, was your sock puppet a good puppet or a bad puppet? \:\) [/b]
i don't know, it was just a character.. i was trying to develop a pedantic, snobby, personality .. just messin around.
Posted by: windsound

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 04:23 PM

As Ken said, "the router we use at home/work is the IP address" and it is quite effective by tracking it.
Posted by: Piano*Dad

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 05:08 PM

 Quote:
(one of the most entertaining was also the nastiest... stephen - boy was he funny.. very smart)
I remember some nasty discussions ABOUT him, but do not recall crossing paths. What was his actual avatar name?
Posted by: apple*

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 05:42 PM

i can't remember.. Stephen was one of his names.. he kept resurfacing.. he was pretty mean.
Posted by: Diane...

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/30/09 10:48 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Knapp:
As most of you know we had a recent incident with a publicly outed sock puppet.

Two members have been banned as of today due to the use of sock puppets. They are:
Pianomadam, using the sock of cklavier, and TheFakeLarryFine, using the sock of threebees.

Thank you everyone for your patience.
Ken [/b]
Always thought Pianomadam was a cross-dresser cause she wears socks and not nylons! \:D And FakeLarry doesn't look very good with his pants down!

Anyways, thanks Ken for all you do! I am throwing kisses your way! Sending some for Chris who caught Pianomadam! That was damn funny! I still laugh about that! Anyways, you deserve more!

Luv ya lots!
Posted by: Scherzophrenic

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/31/09 12:29 AM

How and why would people be mean on a music forum...a piano forum no less! Violinists, maybe, and French Horn players, well, of course, they being loners and all, but pianists? Oh. Wait. Keith Jarrett wasn't ever mean, was he? I know that Billy Joel, *gasp!* tipped his piano over in a fit of rage while performing in Moscow, but having a sockpuppet that's mean....on a piano forum....unheard of!
Posted by: U S A P T

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 01/31/09 02:07 AM

Scherzophrenic (love the name):

Music people tend to be very passionate about their work and about life in general. Most of the people who post have gregarious personalities. Add varying levels of experience, classical purists vs. dilletantes, sightreaders against ear-players, brand loyalty, preconceived notions, the occasional seller trying to nab a customer and then mix well with people who are simply looking for a piece of furniture to add trophy value to their living room and you can get a volatile mix.

You wouldn't believe how many people in here (and there ARE real people behind many of these avatars) have gotten into knock-down drag-out fights and helped each other up all bloodied and bruised like a biker bar at 1:59 a.m. and then met at a piano party and act like old friends.

Kind of like politicians in D.C.

Very interesting bunch. Stick around and you'll see.
Posted by: mikhailoh

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/02/09 02:19 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Newbie:
The only sock puppet I like is Lamb Chop(Shari Lewis) \:D \:D [/b]
I had a Lamb Chop and a Charlie Horse puppet as a kid. (yeah, I'm dating myself, I know)
Posted by: mikhailoh

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/02/09 02:22 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
it is extraordinarily tedious to search by address.. one can spot them tho. [/b]
Give me the data in a text format and I'll write a program to sort out the duplicates in about 20 minutes.
Posted by: mikhailoh

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/02/09 02:25 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by AJB:
Gary - I asked this question and Ken said that the router we use at home/work is the IP address that is tracked rather than the dynamic one on the computer itself.

My router and ISP link provides the facility for me to change the router IP address at will (not that I do - no need), so I am not sure how effective the tracking system is. [/b]
Yes, but you'd have to change it and change it back as you used the sockie. I doubt many people can do that.

I also don't think we want to do a retroactive witchhunt resulting in a purge. But ot might be nice for Ken to know who to keep an eye on.
Posted by: scharlott

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/02/09 06:41 PM

Anyone interested in becoming a pantyhose puppet? \:D
Posted by: Alex Hernandez

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/02/09 11:42 PM

This is a great policy change for PW. I hope the powers that be aggressively go back and ban those who you use sockpuppets to prop up undeserving brands and demean venerable names in the industry. This would clear up a lot of confusion.
Posted by: stanw909

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/03/09 02:47 AM

Would the Tier 1 posters use silk stocking puppets to support their agenda?
Posted by: apple*

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/03/09 09:17 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by stanw909:
Would the Tier 1 posters use silk stockings puppets to support their agenda? [/b]
maybe

Posted by: Steve Cohen

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/03/09 10:12 AM

Wow Apple!

That's some sexy piano. Bechsteins always turned me on!
Posted by: sophial

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/03/09 01:03 PM

looks like a scene from "Cabaret"!!
Posted by: theJourney

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/03/09 02:28 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Cohen:
Wow Apple!

That's some sexy piano. Bechsteins always turned me on! [/b]
Isn't your relationship with Bechstein more "pay for play", Steve? \:o
Posted by: Steve Cohen

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/03/09 03:56 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by theJourney:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Cohen:
Wow Apple!

That's some sexy piano. Bechsteins always turned me on! [/b]
Isn't your relationship with Bechstein more "pay for play", Steve? \:o [/b]
Yes. But I also know that they are one of the finest lines out there.
Posted by: kenny

Re: Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters) - 02/03/09 04:25 PM

I forgot my password years ago and reregistered as samekenny1 or something.
It happens.
But then some Bozo registered as samekenny2 or something and pretended to be me.
That was annoying.

But when an anonymous person is obviously causing trouble or screaming their head off about brand X that's different.

Bad sockieism is hard to define but we all know when we see it.

Good call Ken.