Ethical?

Posted by: Jolly

Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:06 AM

Is it ethical for members/former members of this site to solicit PW members for a competing Piano Forum site?
Posted by: mound

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:15 AM

ethical? competing?

I cross reference pianoforum.net on this site all the time.

I didn't know there was any competition involved.. They are all resources, use them as you wish.

-Paul
Posted by: The 89th Key

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:17 AM

No.
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:20 AM

Yes. Let the free market decide. :p
Posted by: markjpcs

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:24 AM

a non-issue IMO.
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:31 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by mound:
ethical? competing?

I cross reference pianoforum.net on this site all the time.

I didn't know there was any competition involved.. They are all resources, use them as you wish.

-Paul [/b]
I used the word solicit. There is a difference between mentioning a site, and actively soliciting members.

Is it ethical to solicit?
Posted by: Dan

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:42 AM

Round here, you can get picked up on East Colfax for soliciting ...


As for other sites, mentioning is ok, saying it's a cool site is fine, soliciting members from here is *ALSO* fine provided there is no money involved on either side (i.e. loss of $ here or gain of $ there). Since it's almost impossible to figure out that last bit about money, that makes solicting a gray area IMO.
Posted by: AaronSF

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:53 AM

When a forum gets as big as this one, splinter groups will naturally form. I see nothing wrong with someone creating another group and inviting people they think might be interested to join. It doesn't mean people have to choose between one or the other, though they might. Does this group actually exist? Is it seeking to recruit people away from PW, or just recruit people from PW? If it exists, why was it created? What motivated its creation?

There's lots to consider (and much more information needed) before I could decide on the ethicality of it.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:56 AM

I think the best way to deal with that issue is to abide by the rules Frank has established. I think the applicable rule is this one:

 Quote:
What Is/Isn't Allowed?
We are a family-oriented web site. Please be careful what you post. Keep it clean, refrain from vulgarity or slander.
The Coffee Room is a little more open than the other forums, but even here please keep in mind young children may access the threads.
For more details about what you should/shouldn't post, please see this...
Be Careful What You Post!
There might also be some prohibition against spamming/selling things (although I couldn't find one), but that's not applicable to the situation you describe, I think.

The only way it wouldn't be OK would be if Frank decided it wasn't. So far, he hasn't so far as I know.
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:12 AM

I never saw it before. It's hilarious! They are a bunch of people with absolutely nothing to say.

Some old favorites are there. To give you an idea of the tone of the place, check out this post from kathyk:

Okay, I'll start off saying this is not original - I got the idea from another unamed forum... [/b]

You gotta love 'um. \:D
Posted by: NAK

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:25 AM

Is it ethical? Don't know.

Does it matter? No.

It's not like PW is at any risk. \:D
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:27 AM

might thin some of the riffraff.. might be a good thing...
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:33 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
Is it ethical? Don't know.

Does it matter? No.

It's not like PW is at any risk. \:D [/b]
Kind of the Dark Matter Piano World. Everything in black and hard to read. I'm going to join as a sockpuppet, they won't know it's me till it's too late. HA HA HA!
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:34 AM

I agree with Matt. It's the internet forum version of a free market. Besides, a little attrition never hurt anybody.
Posted by: The 89th Key

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:36 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
I never saw it before. It's hilarious! They are a bunch of people with absolutely nothing to say.

Some old favorites are there. To give you an idea of the tone of the place, check out this post from kathyk:

Okay, I'll start off saying this is not original - I got the idea from another unamed forum... [/b]

You gotta love 'um. \:D [/b]


I just wrote this nice long post, and it was deleted because of an internet error. I HATE THAT!!!!

Anyway, I was just making fun of that other website, regarding the issues that they were addressing; ones that we talk about all the time in here, except in here we contribute on a MUCH higher intellectual level. (as compared to what I saw there)

For example they would have stuff like:

"What do you think of this homosexuality topic?"

You might as well have:

"Has anyone heard of this Inter-Net technology?"

"What do you think about this Iraq war?"

or

"Has anyone ever listened to Rachmaninoff 3?"

Haha!
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:40 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I think the best way to deal with... snip... but that's not applicable to the situation you describe, I think.

The only way it wouldn't be OK would be if Frank decided it wasn't. So far, he hasn't so far as I know. [/b]
Point taken.

That which is not expressly forbidden is implicitly condoned.

Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
Posted by: The 89th Key

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:42 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
Is it ethical? Don't know.

Does it matter? No.

It's not like PW is at any risk. \:D [/b]
Kind of the Dark Matter Piano World. Everything in black and hard to read. I'm going to join as a sockpuppet, they won't know it's me till it's too late. HA HA HA! [/b]
Hmmm, that gives me an idea! We should form a large gang of normal CR members (30 or so) and just go over and terrorize that forum, and run them outta town! This is OUR turf!
Posted by: Phlebas

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:45 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Is it ethical for members/former members of this site to solicit PW members for a competing Piano Forum site? [/b]
If you're talking about pianoforum.net, it's not a competing site. This site is geared more towards the technical end, and pianoforum.net is more toward pianists. The members tend to be a lot younger too.

I've been a member of pianoforum.net for almost as long as I've been a member here. I've never solicited any members from one forum to another. I don't think it's wrong to encourage people to post in another related, but not competing, forum.

I've gotten information from the other forum that I would not have gotten here, and the reverse is true.

It's non-issue.

Both Nils at pianoforum.net, and Frank at PianoWorld are busy people, and they don't need trouble made over this.
Posted by: Axtremus

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:54 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:

... To give you an idea of the tone of the place, check out this post from kathyk:

Okay, I'll start off saying this is not original - I got the idea from another unamed forum... [/b]
You stalk her all the way to that other site? You must really miss her, a lot! \:D
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:56 AM

i miss kathy too... such a stubborn woman
Posted by: Renauda

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:00 AM

I'm gonna be bluntly frank. The only ones I regret leaving are Benedict, Shantinik and Ariel. The rest of the 'dearly departed' had little or nothing original to say.
Posted by: Dan

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:07 AM

"Nils at pianoforum.net"??!!! As in Nils Luerhman?! Gee, why isn't Steve Cohen a charter member over there?!! \:D
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:19 AM

Nah, different Nils. (And to show you how arcane our comments are, there probably aren't ten folks here who could tell you who Luehrman was... \:D )
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:36 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
i miss kathy too... such a stubborn woman [/b]
Not to say anything bad about the dearly departed, but kathyk was crazy. Towards the end there she really was something of a screaming lunatic.

All and all, those guys will be very happy in a moderated forum in the same way the would be very happy in a moderated America. Big Brother watching and lots and lots of rules to follow.

God bless them each and every one. \:\)
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:39 AM

Jolly:

 Quote:
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so.
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 11:08 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly:

 Quote:
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so. [/b]
I beg to differ.

This site is free, granted. Yet...when folks drop in on the best piano boards on the net, they hopefully add a bit of commerce to Frank's pockets. Maybe they buy a copy of The Piano Book . I once read that this site sells more of that tome than does Larry Fine's own site.

Or maybe they purchase something from Frank's store, or perhaps they list their piano on the Pianos for Sale section.

But I think the forums are the initial draw.

I've never had a problem with folks mentioning other boards. I used to be on Mr. Land's board quite a bit, as were a couple of others around here. And there are more than a few old rmmp'er roomers here, like Larry, Rich, or Dwain.

However, from a couple of things I've read, there seems to be an active solicitation movement going on, to a competing board.

And yes, I do find that to be a bit beyond the pale, if the modus operandi is the PM function on this board, and the gathering of our publicly displayed email addresses.

Just because something is free, is not an absolution to leave one's ethics at the door.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 11:24 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly:

 Quote:
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so. [/b]
jeez -

Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 11:24 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly:

 Quote:
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so. [/b]
jeez -

free for those who would take

[/b]
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 11:25 AM

This site is free from the standpoint that you don't have to pay to join and use it. But this site is hardly "free".

Maybe it would help you to gain a clearer understanding of where you are, Cindy. The name of this site is PianoWorld, not Piano Forum. The main purpose of this site is to hopefully make a buck, not provide you and I a playground. Forums exist to drive up the hit count on the site. Obviously, they can serve a purpose which is also beneficial to the overall good of the site, which in the case of the piano forum is to provide a place for people to gain useful information when shopping for a piano, the pianist's corner where people can share information about playing the piano, etc. But those are the carrots - the main function forums serve is to drive up hit count, making the site come up higher up the food chain on a google search, and hopefully go to the areas where things are sold, and money is made.

On the one hand, this is a non issue from the standpoint that no one "owns" a poster, and everyone is free to visit whatever site they wish to visit. They are also free to recommend another site if they choose. I don't see a problem with that at all. To me, it comes down to intent. If someone is actively trying to drive people *away* from a forum to another one, while it may not be "against the law" so to speak, it is a most disgusting and tasteless act, and quite tacky at the very least.
Posted by: NAK

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 11:46 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly:

quote:
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so. [/b]
jeez -

free for those who would take

[/b]
[/b]
Don't you hate it when you try to edit a post but quote it instead?
Posted by: justme

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 11:47 AM

yes
Posted by: Nunatax

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 11:54 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
Don't you hate it when you try to edit a post but quote it instead? [/b]
Yes, absolutely!
Posted by: Nunatax

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 11:54 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Nunatax:
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
Don't you hate it when you try to edit a post but quote it instead? [/b]
Yes, I do! It's horrible! [/b]
Posted by: Nina

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 12:11 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
However, from a couple of things I've read, there seems to be an active solicitation movement going on, to a competing board.[/b]
What are you talking about? What couple of things have you read? I've not seen any active solicitations to a competing board...?

Besides, Frank himself put a "Other Piano Sites" link in here, and there are at least a dozen sites that people have put in there that are related to pianos, so they must be "competing" in some way with Piano World.

I doubt that Frank would have created the site if he was worried about competition.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 12:36 PM

Yes, Jolly. Do favor us with an explanation that shows there is some unethical conspiracy going on. I don't rememeber being asked to sign a loyalty oath to post here. We are all free to post here and anywhere else we'd like, I'm sure you'd agree.

As for whether this site is free, yes, it is free. There is no obligation to spend one penny that benefits PW. If Frank would like it some other way, I think he should say so. So far, he has not, and indeed seems to have said the opposite.

Why don't you guys let Frank speak for himself for a change? Having a subscription logo next to one's name isn't a license to dictate policy, pull rank or set ethical standards around here. IMHO.

This sense of entitlement some here display is beyond nauseating.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 12:39 PM

here we go again.... :rolleyes:

2 other places to play, and you have to complain here......

YOUR arguing is nauseating Cindy \:\)

edit: formerly stated for her honor..

as is YOUR sense of entitlement...

double edit:

and attitude.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 12:48 PM

Apple:

 Quote:
here we go again....

2 other places to play, and you have to complain here......

your arguing is nauseating Cindy

edit: formerly stated for her honor..

as is your sense of entitlement...
Apple, I don't understand what's gotten under your skin or why you are interjecting yourself into this discussion for the sole purpose of heckling me.

I am a member of dozens of discussion groups, and I think Jolly is misguided to imply there is anything wrong with people joining other groups. Jolly did ask the question, and as a member here, I thought it appropriate to provide my opinion. I think I have been polite and civil and I haven't attacked him or you.

So why are you bugging me?

Cindy -- thinking it is quite peculiar for people on the one hand to point out that this site costs money to run yet on the other hand be upset with people if they *don't* use PW's bandwidth
Posted by: The 89th Key

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 12:49 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Having a subscription logo next to one's name isn't a license to dictate policy, pull rank or set ethical standards around here. IMHO.[/b]
In fact, I know some people here who have paid Frank, but chose to not display any "subscription logo".

If you want to post to more than one forum, thats fine. But I think those who exclusively post here A) have their posts respected more and B) have better friendships.

I personally prefer to just post here, there really isn't a better bunch of people on the web. \:\)
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 12:54 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Apple, I don't understand what's gotten under your skin or why you are interjecting yourself into this discussion for the sole purpose of heckling me.


[/b]
what are your honors rules? hmmmmm?

You deserve to be heckled today... Why don't you have a glass of tea.
Posted by: The 89th Key

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 12:56 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly did ask the question, and as a member here, I thought it appropriate to provide my opinion. I think I have been polite and civil and I haven't attacked him or you.[/b]
Welcome neighbor!! \:D

My opinion is constantly attacked when I present it in a civil manner, so just don't let it get to you. If you know that you are being polite and mature, then there isn't much else you can do, so stay strong cindy! Whether I agree with it or not, you are rarely out of line (if ever) so please continue to express your opinion! \:\)
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 12:56 PM

 Quote:


what are your honors rules? hmmmmm?

You deserve to be heckled today... Why don't you have a glass of tea.
Apple?

Honest to goodness, I don't know what on earth you are even talking about. I can see you're trying to be nasty for some reason, but I have no idea what I could have done to offend you so badly.

Let's make a deal. You don't respond to my messages and I won't respond to yours.

How about it?
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 12:59 PM

89th:

 Quote:
Welcome neighbor!!
Hee!

Yes, you're right. S*** happens.

Here's something to raise your blood pressure, 89th. . . .

I still haven't backed up my computer.

Pretty irresonsible, no? ;\)

Cindy -- who will do it before this week
Posted by: justme

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 12:59 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
However, from a couple of things I've read, there seems to be an active solicitation movement going on, to a competing board.

And yes, I do find that to be a bit beyond the pale, if the modus operandi is the PM function on this board, and the gathering of our publicly displayed email addresses.

Just because something is free, is not an absolution to leave one's ethics at the door. [/QB]
Jolly, I, too, would like some examples of what you're talking about. Because, if this is true, I couldn't agree with you more.
Posted by: The 89th Key

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:04 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
[QUOTE] Let's make a deal. You don't respond to my messages and I won't respond to yours.

How about it? [/b]
Wouldn't her acceptance of that deal simultaneously cause her to break it? \:D

The 89th Key - who will come back up Cindy's computer this weekend if she doesn't do it soon! (No Tom, that wasn't a metaphorical statement )
Posted by: jgoo

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:05 PM

TomK: As if clowns weren't already scary enough! Yikes!!! \:D
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:05 PM

Well, I'll come clean and reveal I was just thinking about PM'ing the avowed Harry Potter fans here and inviting them to a Harry Potter discussion group I know about.

But I guess that would be highly unethical . . . So I'd better not!

Bad Cindy, Bad Cindy! \:\)
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:05 PM

I am responding Cindy because I wish to counterbalance what you've publicly written...

So, I guess there is no deal..at least on my part. I hope you understand.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:07 PM

89th:

 Quote:
Wouldn't her acceptance of that deal simultaneously cause her to break it?
**DOH!!**

Curses. Foiled again.
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:15 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Yes, Jolly. Do favor us with an explanation that shows there is some unethical conspiracy going on. I don't rememeber being asked to sign a loyalty oath to post here. We are all free to post here and anywhere else we'd like, I'm sure you'd agree.

As for whether this site is free, yes, it is free. There is no obligation to spend one penny that benefits PW. If Frank would like it some other way, I think he should say so. So far, he has not, and indeed seems to have said the opposite.

Why don't you guys let Frank speak for himself for a change? Having a subscription logo next to one's name isn't a license to dictate policy, pull rank or set ethical standards around here. IMHO.

This sense of entitlement some here display is beyond nauseating. [/b]
One is free to post on any free site that will have them. That is not my point. I explicitly stated that I used to romp around on Mr. Land's board a bit, and I've got a short post on rmmp right now.

My question was about the ethics of solicitation.

Nothing was said in my post about forum-support, or entitlement of those who do send Frank money for forum support.

If you'd like to wade through a few posts on the other board, please do so. EHpianist was the one that caught my eye. And to thoroughly absolve Elena, she may not have even referenced this board in particular - it may have been another she was talking about.

That does not change the essential premise of this thread-starter, however.
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:23 PM

Ms. A happens to meet Ms. B at a quiet neighborhood restaurant. It's a nice restaurant that serves the kind of food they both enjoy. They both become regular patrons of this restaurant, as do a number of other people. Ms. A and Ms. B have a lot in common, so they tend to talk to each other quite frequently at this restaurant. The other regular patrons have similar personal affinities for one another, and also for the genial owner of the place.

As time passes, Ms. A and Ms. B, along with the whole consort of regular patrons become quite familiar with each other and feel comfortable in this restaurant. Ms. A happens to love the corned beef and Ms. B truly enjoys the dumplings. Then, things start happening with the supplies to the restaurant, things beyond the owner's control. Corned beef disappears from the menu, and the dumplings can only be had on Wednesdays.

Ms. A and Ms. B both continue to go to the restaurant, though, because they are comfortable there. Then, the restaurant is split into smoking and non-smoking sections, and tensions develop between the smokers and non-smokers. The restaurant becomes less and less conducive to the type of fellowship Ms. A and Ms. B enjoy, and neither can get the type of food they really like there anymore.

Ms. B suggests to Ms. A that they try a new restaurant down the street that serves corned beef and dumplings. That's your 'free market' at work. Is there something ethically amiss in this scenario? Do either Ms. A or Ms. B have any reason to keep going to the same old restaurant? Should they be harassed if they do? Should they feel guilty for going to another restaurant? Should the patrons at the old restaurant feel slighted? Answer these questions and you'll be better prepared to answer the issue of any ethical propriety.

(©2004 by Analogies "B" Us)
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:23 PM

Yes, but several of us want to know the facts concerning this alleged solicitation. Will you or will you not provide them?

 Quote:
If you'd like to wade through a few posts on the other board, please do so.
**A-HA!!** You just solicited me!

Was it good for you too?
Posted by: Nina

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:24 PM

Jolly-- are you saying that people on another forum are soliciting people on that forum to stay on that forum rather than come over here?

What's so unethical about that? That's not exactly what I would call a "solicitation."

On the other hand, maybe I'm not following you. If so, in the words of Emily Litella, "never mind."
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:34 PM

Cindy, I would imagine what's bothering Apple is the same thing that's bothering me. I don't know if you simply ignore things, or if you purposely miss the point and argue an irrelevant tangent on purpose, or simply aren't capable of comprehending. It's one of the three, I just can't decide which one it is.

Take "free". I cannot believe you aren't smart enough to separate the distinct difference between free for you to use from free meaning the site costs nothing. In choosing to focus on the "free for you to use" aspect, you completely miss the entire point, and go off on a tangent. Then, in spite of your claims of "civility", you take a swipe at those you disagree with with your snide remark, "This sense of entitlement some here display is beyond nauseating." That's hardly being civil, but I suppose from the etherworld you have contorted your logic into, you have justified that one as well.

Then you hit us with your favorite little dodge, "Why don't you guys let Frank speak for himself for a change?" Are you of the opinion that Frank is the only one here with any common sense? Do you really not understand commerce, or are you purposely trying to create friction? Frank doesn't have to "speak" for thinking people to be able to understand the simple logic that this place is not free, or that the forums provide hit count to his website. This is "internet business 101", Cindy. If you really don't understand it, then stop taking swipes at people and let them educate you. If you *do* understand it, stop purposely trying to confuse the issue, and stop taking mean swipes at people and then standing back claiming to be an innocent victim. You were *not* "civil".
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:37 PM

Well, that sure was personal. :rolleyes:
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:41 PM

No, it wasn't personal. It was written in the same spirit of civility that Cindy's post was.
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:42 PM

No, it was not.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:43 PM

Larry, your post had nothing whatever to do with the so-called ethics of people inviting others to join them at another internet forum. People can post where they want, and they can invite others to post anyplace they'd like. That anyone would find this objectionable (on the facts presented) means that person has an agenda or a control issue or something.

I mean, did you even read Matt's post?

And yes, I do think some folks here should stop acting as though they are devising and executing Frank's business plan. 'Cause they're not. And all they're doing is causing (more) trouble with a bunch of unsubstantiated paranoia. IMHO, of course.

I do think you should consider expressing your concerns about solicitation directly to Frank. Maybe he'd agree and would post a new rule or some such.

 Quote:
Cindy, I would imagine what's bothering Apple is the same thing that's bothering me. I don't know if you simply ignore things, or if you purposely miss the point and argue an irrelevant tangent on purpose, or simply aren't capable of comprehending. It's one of the three, I just can't decide which one it is.

Take "free". I cannot believe you aren't smart enough to separate the distinct difference between free for you to use from free meaning the site costs nothing. In choosing to focus on the "free for you to use" aspect, you completely miss the entire point, and go off on a tangent. Then, in spite of your claims of "civility", you take a swipe at those you disagree with with your snide remark, "This sense of entitlement some here display is beyond nauseating." That's hardly being civil, but I suppose from the etherworld you have contorted your logic into, you have justified that one as well.

Then you hit us with your favorite little dodge, "Why don't you guys let Frank speak for himself for a change?" Are you of the opinion that Frank is the only one here with any common sense? Do you really not understand commerce, or are you purposely trying to create friction? Frank doesn't have to "speak" for thinking people to be able to understand the simple logic that this place is not free, or that the forums provide hit count to his website. This is "internet business 101", Cindy. If you really don't understand it, then stop taking swipes at people and let them educate you. If you *do* understand it, stop purposely trying to confuse the issue, and stop taking mean swipes at people and then standing back claiming to be an innocent victim. You were *not* "civil".
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:48 PM

I don't think a rule needs to be made........ people should know better.
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:49 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
I don't think a rule needs to be made........ people should know better. [/b]
Fine, I'll never publicly or privately suggest that anyone go to another restaurant. I'll just go.
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:51 PM

Larry, your post had nothing whatever to do with the so-called ethics of people inviting others to join them at another internet forum. People can post where they want, and they can invite others to post anyplace they'd like. That anyone would find this objectionable (on the facts presented) means that person has an agenda or a control issue or something.[/b]

Excuse me, but it had *everything* to do with it. To quote from my post:

"On the one hand, this is a non issue from the standpoint that no one "owns" a poster, and everyone is free to visit whatever site they wish to visit. They are also free to recommend another site if they choose. I don't see a problem with that at all."

I mean, did you even read Matt's post?[/b]

I wasn't addressing Matt's post. I was addressing your's.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:51 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
I don't think a rule needs to be made........ people should know better. [/b]
edit as usual): I did like your post Matt. This is not big deal.
Posted by: Dan

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:51 PM

How 'bout them Steelers?
Posted by: Renauda

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:52 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:


...IMHO, of course.

[/b][/QUOTE]

I like your sense of humour. \:D
Posted by: piqué

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:54 PM

terrific analogy, matt. it says it all.

if the owner of the restaurant doesn't want an exodus to another restaurant, he needs to provide what people want. in this case, civility and moderation. the owner has not stepped up to the plate to provide what some people are seeking. and so, they go to another restaurant. if frank is worried about that, then he can pay attention to how his services are meeting (or not) the needs of the regulars.

nobody can force anybody to prefer a certain restaurant. we've all got free will here.
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 01:59 PM

The questions have no similarity to the question I asked.

Let us shift your scenario a bit...

Mrs. B frequents a busy restauraunt, and writes down the names of whomever comes through the door. At some point in time, she becomes less than enamored of the restaurant, and decides to move on. However, she then procedes to mail all of the customers that still frequent the old restaurant, and tries to persuade them to leave. Sometimes this mail uses stamps that she swiped off of the counter, while the old restaurant owner wasn't looking.

Things are much better at the new restaurant (even though they may not be), she says.

Is this ethical?

Or, to put aside analogies, and get down to the nut-cuttin', is it proper to use the posted email addresses in our profiles, and the PM function of this board to recruit members to frequent a competing forum?
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:01 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Or, to put aside analogies, and get down to the nut-cuttin', is it proper to use the posted email addresses in our profiles, and the PM function of this board to recruit members to frequent a competing forum? [/b]
Until you provide any proof of such behavior, the question is not valid for discussion.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:03 PM

why would that be so?
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:03 PM

Larry:

 Quote:
Excuse me, but it had *everything* to do with it. To quote from my post:

"On the one hand, this is a non issue from the standpoint that no one "owns" a poster, and everyone is free to visit whatever site they wish to visit. They are also free to recommend another site if they choose. [/b]I don't see a problem with that at all."
Larry?

You're not quoting from the post to which I was replying. You're quoting from your earlier post. Your post I referred to (the one Matt mentioned) is the one where you've wandered way off the subject and just spewed a pointless personal attack. Thank goodness I copied your post into mine so there wouldn't be any confusion! \:\)

Anyway, it's settled. People here at PW can "recommend" another site if they choose.

RECOMMEND: To praise or commend (one) to another as being worthy or desirable; endorse:

But some here (a tiny minority, actually, based on this thread) believe it is unethical to "solicit" someone to join another site:

SOLICIT: To seek to obtain by persuasion, entreaty, or formal application.

So you can "recommend" that someone check out another site, but you'd better not be too persuasive about it, 'cause then you're "soliciting." I'm glad we cleared that up! \:\)

copyright Dictionary.com
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:06 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
why would that be so? [/b]
Because I don't believe this to be a thread about pure conjecture. It smacks way more of accusation, veiled and couched in the theoretical though it might be.
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:06 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Or, to put aside analogies, and get down to the nut-cuttin', is it proper to use the posted email addresses in our profiles, and the PM function of this board to recruit members to frequent a competing forum? [/b]
Until you provide any proof of such behavior, the question is not valid for discussion. [/b]
I beg to differ.

Are all questions of ethics not open to discussion until they have been breached?

If you'll go back and read what I wrote, you'll find I referenced a specific poster. I also said that she may not have been referring to this particular board when she made aforementioned statement. Or she might have been doing so.

Either way, it is a queston of ethics.
Posted by: kluurs

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:09 PM

Oh god...please pm me when we talk about where we place the angels on the head of a pin...

This thread proves why Seinfeld was a success - a thread that really goes up to the line of being about "nothing."

The Christmas holiday is upon us...probably a little overwraught and this gives an outlet for the frustration - but frankly, when you read this a month from now, you'll wonder what this was all about.

God bless you all and to all a good night...

Ken

P.S. I can post some URL's to tropical fish sites...
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:11 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Yes, but several of us want to know the facts concerning this alleged solicitation. Will you or will you not provide them?

 Quote:
If you'd like to wade through a few posts on the other board, please do so.
**A-HA!!** You just solicited me!

Was it good for you too? [/b]
Context madam, is everything.

But you already knew that, didn't you?

This what I said:
 Quote:
If you'd like to wade through a few posts on the other board, please do so. EHpianist was the one that caught my eye. And to thoroughly absolve Elena, she may not have even referenced this board in particular - it may have been another she was talking about.

That does not change the essential premise of this thread-starter, however.
Now, is that a solicitation as I have framed it within this thread?
Posted by: piqué

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:12 PM

so a bunch of people come here, find out they are like-minded and become friends. there is a debate about what the tone of this site should be, and who is enhancing and who is detracting from that tone.

one faction wins the debate; they get the site the way they want it. another faction decides they'd like to continue their friendship at a different site, one that is more conducive to the kinds of conversations they'd like to have.

so sue 'em, jolly. you can't have your cake and eat it, too. :p
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:12 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
why would that be so? [/b]
Because I don't believe this to be a thread about pure conjecture. It smacks way more of accusation, veiled and couched in the theoretical though it might be. [/b]
Then state your facts, sir.
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:13 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
If you'll go back and read what I wrote, you'll find I referenced a specific poster. I also said that she may not have been referring to this particular board when she made aforementioned statement. Or she might have been doing so.[/b]
Then, why don't you ask that person privately if she thinks there was a breach of ethical or proprietary standards. What you or think is of little consequence.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:13 PM

Jolly, Matt is correct that this is kinda silly without some facts.

But this bit:

 Quote:
Sometimes this mail uses stamps that she swiped off of the counter, while the old restaurant owner wasn't looking.
I know you mean well, but this is just plain bizarre in this context. Stealing stamps is *theft.* If on the other hand the customer has the owner's explicit permission to use the stamps, then there is no theft.

Gee, I was a member of a group that met monthly at Starbucks. Eventually, someone suggested we move our meetings to Cosi because Starbucks was too crowded. She made this suggestion (or "solicitation") right there while we were sitting at Starbucks sipping our coffee. Are you saying this was inappropriate? Really?

Maybe we should have wrestled her to the ground and called headquarters in Seattle. ;\)
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:14 PM

And yes, I do think some folks here should stop acting as though they are devising and executing Frank's business plan. 'Cause they're not. And all they're doing is causing (more) trouble with a bunch of unsubstantiated paranoia. IMHO, of course.

I do think you should consider expressing your concerns about solicitation directly to Frank. Maybe he'd agree and would post a new rule or some such.[/b]

Let me try this again, then. As I've already said most clearly, people are free to post wherever they want to, they are free to recommend other sites if they want to, no one "owns" the right to a poster. There's nothing at all wrong with recommending another site to someone. I agree with Matt that the marketplace works. I'm not trying to "devise and execute" anyone's business plan, I'm simply telling you what purpose forums are designed to serve. I don't care who goes where, who reads what, or how they heard about it, unless it is because of someone trying to convince people to *stop* posting somewhere, offering them another place in return for it. That's not nice.
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:14 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Then state your facts, sir. [/b]
It's my gut instinct, which seldom misserves.
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:15 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by piqué:
so a bunch of people come here, find out they are like-minded and become friends. there is a debate about what the tone of the site should be, and who is enhancing and who is detracting from that tone.

one faction wins the debate; they get the site the way they wanted. another faction decides they'd like to continue their friendship at a different site, one that is more conducive to the kinds of conversations they'd like to have.

so sue 'em, jolly. you can't have your cake and eat it, too. :p [/b]
Somebody won? They must have forgot to tell the plebian masses in the hinterlands.

And...if one has his cake, it stands to reason he shall also consume it. :p
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:16 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Then state your facts, sir. [/b]
It's my gut instinct, which seldom misserves. [/b]
Thank you for stating you have no facts to base your conjecture upon.
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:17 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Thank you for stating you have no facts to base your conjecture upon. [/b]
Nor have you. Even.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:20 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by piqué:


one faction wins the debate; they get the site the way they want it. another faction decides they'd like to continue their friendship at a different site, one that is more conducive to the kinds of conversations they'd like to have.

[/b]
I wonder why they keep coming in for the special of the day? \:\)

...except athykay - boy she is a woman of principle... really sticks to her guns.. She has not been back. You gotta give her credit for that.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:20 PM

Jolly,

I don't wish to go to that other site and try to find these mystery posts there. I just don't. If you know where they are, why don't you just post them?

I just don't see how anyone can really and truly answer your question without knowing what went on, exactly. That was the point of your question, right? To get an answer? Why be so coy about this?
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:21 PM

you know...one thing bothers me... I never thought I'd be arguing with Matt... never in a million years.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:22 PM

edit
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:25 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Thank you for stating you have no facts to base your conjecture upon. [/b]
Nor have you. Even. [/b]
I never stated I had facts. I have said so repeatedly.

Does that make the premise of this thread any less valid?
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:28 PM

 Quote:
I just don't see how anyone can really and truly answer your question without knowing what went on, exactly. That was the point of your question, right? To get an answer? Why be so coy about this?
I'm a lot of things, but coy ain't one of 'em.

I've already stated in this thread that a post from Elena started me thinking about the ethics of solicitation. I posted those questions.

They are questions of ethics, and are not an attempt at coyness.
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:30 PM

...except athykay - boy she is a woman of principle... really sticks to her guns.. She has not been back. You gotta give her credit for that.[/b]

I do. Oh, how I do. And I hope she's able to maintain her "principles"......
Posted by: Bernard

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:35 PM

Well! I never saw so many knickers in a twist since... well! I never saw so many knickers in a twist! ROFLMAO! \:D \:D \:D
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:35 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
[QUOTE]I never stated I had facts. I have said so repeatedly.

Does that make the premise of this thread any less valid? [/b]
Was one of your members stolen? Honestly, I give up.

There are dozens, if not hundreds of people here who have developed off-line (or at least off-public board) friendships and/or correspondences with each other. Within that framework, I feel there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING, improper or unethical about suggesting a different online meeting place. Friends suggest things to each other all the time.

You have repeatedly posited the notion that someone "may have" been 'soliciting' other (apparently random) PW members to join them somewhere else. I find the implications of the assertion accusatory in and of themselves.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:35 PM

Come on, Jolly. If you're going to go so far as to identify the site and the person who committed this egregious sin, can't you do me a favor and cough up a link or a quote? That's what I meant about being coy.
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:35 PM

 Quote:
I know you mean well, but this is just plain bizarre in this context. Stealing stamps is *theft.* If on the other hand the customer has the owner's explicit permission to use the stamps, then there is no theft.
I was trying to rise to Matt's allegory.

Here is what is meant...most of us display our email addies in our profiles. If I was a sharp laddie, I'd copy and paste those to my email list. I would then solicit as much business as possible for a new enterprise, by using that info.

By using the functions of the site, one can help to hurt it, or attempt to do so.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:37 PM

Bernard:

 Quote:
Well! I never saw so many knickers in a twist since... well! I never saw so many knickers in a twist! ROFLMAO!
I *know!*

But you know, Bernard, I'm hurt.

No one solicited *me.* Ouch! \:\( \:\(
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:45 PM

 Quote:
You have repeatedly posited the notion that someone "may have" been 'soliciting' other (apparently random) PW members to join them somewhere else. I find the implications of the assertion accusatory in and of themselves.
Nope. I've been very careful to accuse no one.

As for implications, those are found only between your ears, sir.
Posted by: Nina

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:47 PM

"RUMOR, n. A favorite weapon of the assassins of character." [/b]--Ambrose Bierce.
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:49 PM

And your point, Nina?
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:49 PM

 Quote:
Nope. I've been very careful to accuse no one.
Nah, you've not been careful at all, although I will grant that you are generally a stand-up guy. You started a thread whereby we all know the other site and the person you claim did something -- something you are suggesting was unethical.

Calling that "coy" is being rather kind, actually.

Eh. I still don't understand why this is anyone's business but Frank's . . . But maybe we should have a loyalty oath, as that seems to be what is expected of members here. \:\)
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:52 PM

 Quote:
Nah, you've not been careful at all, although I will grant that you are generally a stand-up guy. You started a thread whereby we all know the other site and the person you claim did something -- something you are suggesting was unethical.

Calling that "coy" is being rather kind, actually.
Please show me where I have accused anyone, on this board or another of the premise of this thread, and you have my public apology.
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:53 PM

It would be unprincipaled to "lift" the email addresses of PW members with whom one has no prior private communication for purposes of personal gain or revenge. Based on what I've read, I see no evidence of any such thing happening. Why the need to conjecture that such a thing could occur? Or are there some Machiavellian shenanigans that you wish to expose?
Posted by: Nina

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:53 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
 Quote:
You have repeatedly posited the notion that someone "may have" been 'soliciting' other (apparently random) PW members to join them somewhere else. I find the implications of the assertion accusatory in and of themselves.
Nope. I've been very careful to accuse no one.

As for implications, those are found only between your ears, sir. [/b]
What are we to make of this?
However, from a couple of things I've read, there seems to be an active solicitation movement going on, to a competing board.[/b]

and this:

If you'll go back and read what I wrote, you'll find I referenced a specific poster. I also said that she may not have been referring to this particular board when she made aforementioned statement. Or she might have been doing so.[/b]

Matt's interpretation makes a lot of sense. And you have propagated rumor and innuendo. You have been very "careful not to accuse anyone" directly, but tell me, what did you need to be so careful about?
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 02:59 PM

Because I do not know the solicitation to be so. And I do not know whether it originated from this board.

But the ethical question remains...
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:00 PM

Why haven't you asked her?
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:02 PM

Jolly:

 Quote:
I've already stated in this thread that a post from Elena started me thinking about the ethics of solicitation.
 Quote:
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
 Quote:
However, from a couple of things I've read, there seems to be an active solicitation movement going on, to a competing board.

And yes, I do find that to be a bit beyond the pale, if the modus operandi is the PM function on this board, and the gathering of our publicly displayed email addresses.
 Quote:
If you'd like to wade through a few posts on the other board, please do so. EHpianist was the one that caught my eye. And to thoroughly absolve Elena, she may not have even referenced this board in particular - it may have been another she was talking about.
"Coy" may not be the word I'm looking for. It does start with a "C" though . . .
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:04 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
Why haven't you asked her? [/b]
Because it may not involve this board, as I've already stated when I referenced her name.

But I find the question interesting.

I also find some of the responses enightening, as some folks read things into statements that are not there...
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:05 PM

Fine, I'll ask her. Chicken.
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:11 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
Fine, I'll ask her. Chicken. [/b]
Still don't understand, do you?

It could come from this board, or it could eminate fromm rmmp. The essential ingredient to our discussion, is that someone contacted her for the purpose of having her presence on that board.

If we extrapolate that one fact, it begs the original question about the ethics of solicitation, and the ramifications thereof.
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:13 PM

I contact my mother nearly every week for the purpose of having her presence (at my home for dinner). We've know each other a long time. I guess I could "steal" her phone number from the telephone directory, but then, isn't that the precise purpose of a telephone directory?
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:15 PM

 Quote:
The essential ingredient to our discussion, is that someone contacted her for the purpose of having her presence on that board.
Is that it? A PW member contacted Elena and said, "Hey, I found a new board, come check it out?"

I think it would be mighty controlling to suggest there is any problem whatever with that.
Posted by: Nina

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:26 PM

Frank\'s been out soliciting again!

Perhaps like many good businessmen, Frank realizes that a rising tide takes all ships. Increasing the number of hits on any piano forum ultimately increases the number of hits on all piano forums... and will increase knowledge and enthusiasm for pianos in general. It's a virtuous cycle, rather than a vicious one.
Posted by: Jerry Luke

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:26 PM

Why do I continue the self-abuse by continually coming back to read the updates to this thread? It's like slowing down to gawk at a traffic accident. I don't want to keep coming back to the CR, but I can't help it.

I feel tawdry.
Posted by: jodi

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:30 PM

Give it a rest, you guys. Seriously. This is about the silliest thread I've ever read. Go OD on some bourbon soaked fruitcake, or something.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

;\) Jodi

(oh, and Merry Happy Christmas Holidays)
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:39 PM

kathyk started a lot of fights when she was here and now it seems she's started one now that she isn't.

A troublesome woman to say the least. Does anyone think she's going to change. She'll be in a fist fight over there the second someone disagrees with her (though she'll still visit here occasionally to steal thread ideas.)

Best to forget her.
Posted by: jodi

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:50 PM

Oh give me a break!!! Kathy started this fight?!

WHO STARTED THIS THREAD?! You want to blame someone Tom, then lay the blame there. Honestly. This is unbelievably STUPID.

Now I need the bourbon soaked fruitcake.

Jodi
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:59 PM

We're arguing over the fact that kathy WENT somewhere.

The SPIRIT of kathy started the fight. The nastiness just surrounds her. Believe me, I could care less where she went or that she went or that anyone else has gone. I think this is a dumb thread, too.
Posted by: kluurs

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 03:59 PM

For Jodi's eyes' only...Everyone else...just move past..

Tom's just funning folks... and provoking KK to say something silly...and reappear... Let's keep this a secret and see what happens.

Ken
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:01 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by kluurs:
For Jodi's eyes' only...Everyone else...just move past..

Tom's just funning folks... and provoking KK to say something silly...and reappear... Let's keep this a secret and see what happens.

Ken [/b]
I thought I was doing pretty good, too! \:D
Posted by: jodi

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:07 PM

Yes, well he did a good job of provoking me, didn't he. I even used the - word. Oh my. :p (and no fair, Tommie boy - you edited your post)

Still gonna drink that fruit cake.

\:\) Jodi
Posted by: kluurs

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:09 PM

Love you Jodi...have a good night...listen to some Brahms... (edit) and get some of those Pillsbury loafs that you can do in your oven...too painful to get fresh bread from the store...

Ken
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:10 PM

Jody,

I edited it in the process of thinking it out, not to confound you and confuse you. Sorry.

\:\)
Posted by: KlavierBauer

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:14 PM

I don't understand the issue... I really don't.

Sure it's sleazy to try and convince a member to leave to another forum with you just because you're lonely... but what did you expect from these people?

The forum there is laughable at best.
... at BEST


please, let them have their "forum" ... their "piano forum" (at least they gave it an original name)
They like it. It makes them feel a little bit better. Why try to deny them that?

I am curious how many techno-neophytes heard that they should go to the "piano forums" online, and ended up there not even knowing this place existed.

HA! no I'm not... I'm really not that curious
Posted by: YodiEvilTwin

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:15 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by jodi:
Now I need the bourbon soaked fruitcake. [/b]
Make it Weller's and I'll join you. :p
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:20 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by KlavierBauer:
I don't understand the issue... I really don't.

Sure it's sleazy to try and convince a member to leave to another forum with you just because you're lonely... but what did you expect from these people?

The forum there is laughable at best.
... at BEST


please, let them have their "forum" ... their "piano forum" (at least they gave it an original name)
They like it. It makes them feel a little bit better. Why try to deny them that?

I am curious how many techno-neophytes heard that they should go to the "piano forums" online, and ended up there not even knowing this place existed.

HA! no I'm not... I'm really not that curious [/b]
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:25 PM

I just went to the site. Seems they're already beginning to wear out their welcome there...... people are asking for moderators....... \:D
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:26 PM

Honestly, KB, I don't understand it either.

Some people might go, others might stay, people can cross-over at will.

Dang. All this energy expended on a big nuthin.'

As my mom used to say, "You want something to cry about? I'll give you something to cry about."

Jodi, you have the bourbon. I think I'll have some white wine . . .
Posted by: Yodaforgottentriplet

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:29 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by YodiEvilTwin:
 Quote:
Originally posted by jodi:
Now I need the bourbon soaked fruitcake. [/b]
Make it Weller's and I'll join you. :p [/b]
My dearest Yodi and Jodi, I'll make to join you and then we'll all be together again.
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:38 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
I just went to the site. Seems they're already beginning to wear out their welcome there...... people are asking for moderators....... \:D [/b]
They are who they are, they won't be any different over there. \:D

Trouble, just trouble. \:\(
Posted by: plays88skeys

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:46 PM

Geez, I didn't know the other place was there. I guess I am not a desired entity, as no one bothered to solicit my participation.

Just as well. I like this forum and the people who participate. The format is user-friendly, the avatars are fun and the forumites -- absolutely the best, most intelligent and interesting folks I've ever had the pleasure to not actually meet!

I have a complaint about that site -- that black background is seriously annoying! For that reason alone I guess PW is stuck with me whether I'm wanted or not. \:D
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 04:48 PM

Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 05:08 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by plays88skeys:
that black background is seriously annoying!.............whether I'm wanted or not. \:D [/b]
When you visit a black backbround piano site on winter solstice, you better have your pentagram dusted off!

And plays, you're wanted. ;\)
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 05:20 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by KlavierBauer:
Sure it's sleazy to try and convince a member to leave to another forum with you just because you're lonely... but what did you expect from these people?
[/b]
Who are "these people?" You talking to me?

jf
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 05:48 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
I just went to the site. Seems they're already beginning to wear out their welcome there...... people are asking for moderators....... \:D [/b]
you're right ... the moderators have smelled the cheese, and our pianoworld friends are in trouble... the rules have been posted and our friends have been warned to be civil.


that is too funny
Posted by: Phlebas

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 05:54 PM

You all need to get a ****ing life. You sound like a bunch of bullies who are ****ed because some kids went off to another sandbox.
Don't you have anything better to ****ing do?

I've been a member of this forum and the other for about the same time. I've seen people here there, and I've seen people there here. This bull**** has never been an issue.

Christ on a bike, grow up already!
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 05:57 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
I just went to the site. Seems they're already beginning to wear out their welcome there...... people are asking for moderators....... \:D [/b]
you're right ... the moderators have smelled the cheese, and our pianoworld friends are in trouble... the rules have been posted and our friends have been warned to be civil.[/b]
Not.
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 05:58 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
I just went to the site. Seems they're already beginning to wear out their welcome there...... people are asking for moderators....... \:D [/b]
you're right ... the moderators have smelled the cheese, and our pianoworld friends are in trouble... the rules have been posted and our friends have been warned to be civil.[/b]
Not. [/b]
Then they will, soon. You have my word on it! :p \:D
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:02 PM

go read right now Matt...

"Forum rules for you newbies:

To make Piano Forum as useful as possible we ask you to keep to the following regulations:

* Please fill out the member profile before using the forum.

* Since the main aim of Piano Forum is to provide a service for professional pianists we ask you to try to keep your postings on an, for that purpose, appropriate level.

* Try as far as possible to keep to the topic. The discussions are sometimes naturally drifting away from the initial topic. In this case it is preferable to start a new topic but with a referral to the previous topic in the first post.


* Piano Forum is a moderated discussion board. Although all postings are immediately displayed everything is eventually read by our moderators. Their work is to keep the boards and topics as clean as possible without interfering to much with the discussions. They have the right to delete posts which are regarded inappropriate and to delete old topics that does not contain useful information.
Please respect their work as it is only to provide a better service for you.

We hope that you, by sticking to these rules, will help Piano Forum to remain the best resource for pianists on the Internet.

/The Piano Forum Team"

Looks like they could use the grammar police over there.
Posted by: xuser

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:09 PM

At least, the other site works much faster. ;\)

xuser
Posted by: Nina

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:20 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Phlebas:
You all need to get a ****ing life. You sound like a bunch of bullies who are ****ed because some kids went off to another sandbox.
Don't you have anything better to ****ing do?

I've been a member of this forum and the other for about the same time. I've seen people here there, and I've seen people there here. This bull**** has never been an issue.

Christ on a bike, grow up already! [/b]
But gee, Phlebas, how do you really feel?
Posted by: Nina

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:20 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
go read right now Matt...

"Forum rules for you newbies:

To make Piano Forum as useful as possible we ask you to keep to the following regulations:

* Please fill out the member profile before using the forum.

* Since the main aim of Piano Forum is to provide a service for professional pianists we ask you to try to keep your postings on an, for that purpose, appropriate level.

* Try as far as possible to keep to the topic. The discussions are sometimes naturally drifting away from the initial topic. In this case it is preferable to start a new topic but with a referral to the previous topic in the first post.


* Piano Forum is a moderated discussion board. Although all postings are immediately displayed everything is eventually read by our moderators. Their work is to keep the boards and topics as clean as possible without interfering to much with the discussions. They have the right to delete posts which are regarded inappropriate and to delete old topics that does not contain useful information.
Please respect their work as it is only to provide a better service for you.

We hope that you, by sticking to these rules, will help Piano Forum to remain the best resource for pianists on the Internet.

/The Piano Forum Team"

Looks like they could use the grammar police over there. [/b]
Context is everything. This was posted in response to a direct question about the forum rules.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:22 PM

well.... read the other threads. I don't mean to be deceptive..
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:22 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Phlebas:
You all need to get a ****ing life. You sound like a bunch of bullies who are ****ed because some kids went off to another sandbox.
Don't you have anything better to ****ing do?

I've been a member of this forum and the other for about the same time. I've seen people here there, and I've seen people there here. This bull**** has never been an issue.

Christ on a bike, grow up already! [/b]
You of course, make a very good point.
Posted by: piqué

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:24 PM

i checked it out and that forum is already moderated, and has been since last summer. the rules apple quoted have been there for quite a long time and have nothing to do with elena or any other recent arrivals.

i also looked at the supposedly criminal post by elena, and i find it quite accurate in its characterizations.

get over it, jolly, larry, apple, and the rest of you... you can't control what other people do. too bad!
Posted by: Nina

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:35 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
well.... read the other threads. I don't mean to be deceptive.. [/b]
I've read the other threads. I've participated in the other threads. I'll take you at your word that you didn't mean to be deceptive, but you were, even if inadvertently. I'm not sure how else to take this:

you're right ... the moderators have smelled the cheese, and our pianoworld friends are in trouble... the rules have been posted and our friends have been warned to be civil.[/b]

The rules were posted from one newbie to another, there was no warning and certainly no intervention by the moderator. No one's "in trouble."

To quote the always winsome Phlebas, Christ on a bike, don't you guys have anything better to do? \:o
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:44 PM

at least I don't belong to TWO forums! \:D
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:46 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by piqué:
i checked it out and that forum is already moderated, and has been since last summer. the rules apple quoted have been there for quite a long time and have nothing to do with elena or any other recent arrivals.

i also looked at the supposedly criminal post by elena, and i find it quite accurate in its characterizations.

get over it, jolly, larry, apple, and the rest of you... you can't control what other people do. too bad! [/b]
From a slightly jaundiced perspective--let's sit back and watch how this little knot of human drama plays out.

It's interesting.
Posted by: jodi

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:49 PM

I belong to five forums. Does that make me a bad person?

:p \:D :p \:D

Jodi
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 06:56 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by jodi:
I belong to five forums. Does that make me a bad person?

:p \:D :p \:D

Jodi [/b]
I belong to Guitarworld.com, full of shredfests and tributes to Dimebag.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:02 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by jodi:
I belong to five forums. Does that make me a bad person?

:p \:D :p \:D

Jodi [/b]
no no no.. I was responding to the "don't you have anything better to do" question.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:04 PM

I've never seen anything like this. Never. Wow. Sad. Very sad.
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:05 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
I just went to the site. Seems they're already beginning to wear out their welcome there...... people are asking for moderators....... \:D [/b]
you're right ... the moderators have smelled the cheese, and our pianoworld friends are in trouble... the rules have been posted and our friends have been warned to be civil.


that is too funny [/b]
No Apple, you are completely mistaken. We were the ones asking about the moderators because we were looking for a more civil place to hang out.

You are completely wrong.


jf
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:06 PM

Things must be going to hell in a handbasket over at Piano World, too! Look what I found! It sounds like there's a whole mess of people in big trouble!

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/agree_review.html
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:09 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Frost:
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
I just went to the site. Seems they're already beginning to wear out their welcome there...... people are asking for moderators....... \:D [/b]
you're right ... the moderators have smelled the cheese, and our pianoworld friends are in trouble... the rules have been posted and our friends have been warned to be civil.


that is too funny [/b]
No Apple, you are completely mistaken. We were the ones asking about the moderators because we were looking for a more civil place to hang out.

You are completely wrong.


jf [/b]
Sadly Jack, you've lost your status as humans and have become objects of amusement. \:\(
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:09 PM

:glances at PW user agreement, trembles in fear:

Oh, lordie. I had nothing to do with this. I'm innocent, I tell ya!!! ;\)

Seriously, plays, no matter what Jolly and others might be implying, there's no grand conspiracy and you weren't snubbed. Dang, Curry mentioned not so long ago that Chickgrand could be found there.

Uh oh. Curry, you are in *so* much trouble!

Man, that other forum must be *good* if so many people here feel threatened by it. . . .
Posted by: JBryan

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:11 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
Things must be going to hell in a handbasket over at Piano World, too! Look what I found! It sounds like there's a whole mess of people in big trouble!

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/agree_review.html [/b]
Probably a boilerplate disclaimer cooked up by his attorneys as a result of the ***** ***** brouhaha.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:12 PM

I don't know that 'moderation is the key' is the appropriate mantra for Piano World.

I like to play in all different keys.
Posted by: JBryan

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:14 PM

I prefer to go "unmoderated". I am just not comfortable with "filters".
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:21 PM

THIS IS THE SILLIEST AND STUPIDEST. Some of us ended up at another forum and felt comfortable there, for reasons I will not go in to and are not even relevant to my point. Some were current members of this forum and others, who may have been SOLICITED (oh my ****ing god), were FORMER members of this forum.

Jolly happens to discover us there and publicizes it and all of a sudden all of you are going over there and criticizing us for being there, as if it is some capital crime to post on more than one forum.

Then Larry stalks us over there and begins posting links to Piano World threads that make him look good and us look bad -- and we ALL know Larry's well established reputation for editing his own posts to make sure history looks kindly on him.

I have to say Larry, you have stooped to a new low. Your posts there have no clear purpose other than to pollute the pond where we were trying to join another community that would not have been as troublesome for some as this one has been. I have lost whatever respect I had for you (and I assure you that in the beginning that was considerable). Your motives could not be more transparent and there was no reason for you to post what you did other than to seek some kind of twisted revenge on those who left.

You have shown your true colors Larry and no amount of posts here about "setting the record straight" can vindicate you. What you did was mean spirited and ablsolutely intentional. Your kind and gentle and well versed presence here is nothing but a fraud in light of your vindictive crossover.

See the light. Back off. Let some of us leave in peace and go back to your ****ing hole to wallow in your hatred and your insecurity.

YOU are the main problem with Piano World and those who disagree with me are free to stay.

See you around.

jf
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:25 PM

making alot of assumptions aren't you Jack... or is it Kathy?
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:26 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
Sadly Jack, you've lost your status as humans and have become objects of amusement. \:\( [/b]
****, Tom, I have "lost my status as [a] human." Really? Where the...

jf
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:28 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
making alot of assumptions aren't you Jack... or is it Kathy? [/b]
Apple, it's Jack.

Go see what Larry has posted and give me any reasonable justification.....

jf
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:30 PM

It's a pattern, Jack.

If others are having fun, there are individuals here who will do *anything* to break up the party. Even if this means they will pollute something that doesn't even belong to them, where they have no interest.

It's times like these when I wish I were a psychologist. At least then I'd understand the pathology. . . .
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:31 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
Sadly Jack, you've lost your status as humans and have become objects of amusement.[/b]
And you, sir, have lost your status as an object of amusement.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:34 PM

who knows - just commenting on your assumption Jack.. I shouldn't have. go ahead make them.

I don't like this fight anymore.. gnite..
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:35 PM

Yes, too harsh. But, you have become an amusement all the same. Sometimes you have to take responsibilities for your actions. Sometimes you have to admit mistakes. As big a blowfish as I am sometimes, I do it, I say I'm and idiot sometimes. Larry did it in the last fight. kathy never did. She never could say, "I'm sorry."

And that's when she looses her humanity and becomes the butt of a joke. There is a price to pay for not taking responsibility for your actions.

Now, it's a game. \:\)
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:37 PM

I am not amused by your game.
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:38 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
Yes, too harsh. But, you have become an amusement all the same. Sometimes you have to take responsibilities for your actions. Sometimes you have to admit mistakes. As big a blowfish as I am sometimes, I do it, I say I'm and idiot sometimes. Larry did it in the last fight. kathy never did. She never could say, "I'm sorry."

And that's when she looses her humanity and becomes the butt of a joke.

Now it's a game. \:\) [/b]
Tom, kathy is nowhere in sight. this is me. I have been as forward as any other person here in admitting mistakes. this is not one of them.

And if you somehow find ME amusing, then you have a pretty desperate and empty life, because I assure you, at the core, I am very boring and ordinary. Hardly amusing at all.

jf
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:40 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
I am not amused by your game. [/b]
Maybe it's me, Matt--but, I'm not "feeling the LOVE." \:D
Posted by: jodi

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:41 PM

I think you all need to GO TO BED.

\:\) Jodi
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:45 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
Sometimes you have to take responsibilities for your actions.[/b]
All right, why not take your own advice. Now is the time for you to take personal responsibility for being one of the most obnoxious of CR posters, one who has been a major contributing cause to much of the exodus. People are tired of having to fight you and your guileful "wit" whose point is usually thinly veiled insult. They bid you adieu and ask that you respect their wishes to be left alone.
Posted by: RealPlayer

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:46 PM

Seven friggin' pages of this nonsense. It's a slow night, I can't believe I read it all.

I'm gonna check out that other board. To devote 7 pages to it, it must be a happenin' place.
Posted by: plays88skeys

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:47 PM

Why is everyone arguing at Christmas-time?

I like you all. I wish everyone would try to mend fences.

Good night.

Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:55 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by plays88skeys:
Why is everyone arguing at Christmas-time?

I like you all. I wish everyone would try to mend fences.

Good night.

[/b]
double that sentiment
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:56 PM

get over it, jolly, larry, apple, and the rest of you... you can't control what other people do. too bad![/b]

Excuse me, but you must not be understanding me. So for a third time, I don't care who goes where, who posts where, how they got there, nothing. I'm not trying to control anyone. In fact, I hope that you and Kathy find inner peace as a result of your posting there, and it completely satisfies your every need. I only had one issue, and that was the one regarding people actively soliciting people to
*leave*. If that's not happening, I don't care about anything else. Sheesh.... my last comment was on the fact that in reading the posts, it seems a few are on the verge of wearing out their welcome already - and I'm not basing that on the post about the rules, I'm basing it on reading the posts.

I don't know how much more clearly I can state that other than things done deceitfully, I don't have a single bit of problem with what anyone does regarding this.
Posted by: JBryan

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 07:59 PM

Why do I feel so left out not having been solicited by any of these various and sundry comely lassies.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:00 PM

jbryan.....i think you have to be personally affronted by the last presidential election to warrant an invite.

pssst.. some of them are not lassies.
Posted by: JBryan

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:01 PM

darn
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:03 PM

Then Larry stalks us over there and begins posting links to Piano World threads that make him look good and us look bad -- and we ALL know Larry's well established reputation for editing his own posts to make sure history looks kindly on him.[/b]

Hold up there, sport. I haven't posted a single thing on that website. I don't even know what you're talking about, but I'll go look at it and see if I can figure out what your problem is.

Let me make this clear to you, Jack. I'm *glad* they found another forum to post in. For the FOURTH TIME - I don't care who posts there. I responded to the idea that people were working in the background collecting email addresses from here to contact people in an effort to get them to *leave* here to go there. That is dirty. Since that time, it has come out that there may not be any evidence of that. So, no problem.

Not until you post a broadfaced lie about me, that is. Again - I have *not* posted one single post in that forum. I'm not even registered, and have no desire to.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:04 PM

Larry:

 Quote:
Sheesh.... my last comment was on the fact that in reading the posts, it seems a few are on the verge of wearing out their welcome already - and I'm not basing that on the post about the rules, I'm basing it on reading the posts.
With all due respect, Larry, I think you might want to read the posts there a bit more carefully. What you're witnessing is a bunch of people trying to get to know each other over there in a civil and pleasant manner.

I think it's kind of interesting to watch, myself. I predict good things -- they seem, you know, *balanced!*

Anyway, everything is above board, there's no "deceit," and there are no "ethical problems."
Anyone here is more than welcome to go over there and check it out, I suppose. Their equivalent of the CR is called "Anything But Pianos."

ABP
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:07 PM

Frankly, the real threat to PW isn't private invitations for people to go post somewhere else.

The real threat to PW is threads like this, IMHO. At times, it feels like those who profess to love this place the most are the biggest threats to its survival . . .
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:07 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
Sometimes you have to take responsibilities for your actions.[/b]
All right, why not take your own advice. Now is the time for you to take personal responsibility for being one of the most obnoxious of CR posters, one who has been a major contributing cause to much of the exodus. People are tired of having to fight you and your guileful "wit" whose point is usually thinly veiled insult. They bid you adieu and ask that you respect their wishes to be left alone. [/b]
:( So, you don't like me. I don't much notice you. But, I do like your poetry, tho' I try to make mine AABB or ABAB. Give it a try yourself.
\:D
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:07 PM

and we ALL know Larry's well established reputation for editing his own posts to make sure history looks kindly on him.[/b]

And another thing - that is a bare assed lie, Jack. Other than deleting a few posts to copy your wife's vile filth in, I have never edited any of my posts. I had my reasons, you aren't able to grasp it, but that does not constitute a "well established reputation" for squat, slick.
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:10 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
get over it, jolly, larry, apple, and the rest of you... you can't control what other people do. too bad![/b]

Excuse me, but you must not be understanding me. So for a third time, I don't care who goes where, who posts where, how they got there, nothing. I'm not trying to control anyone. In fact, I hope that you and Kathy find inner peace as a result of your posting there, and it completely satisfies your every need. I only had one issue, and that was the one regarding people actively soliciting people to
*leave*. If that's not happening, I don't care about anything else. Sheesh.... my last comment was on the fact that in reading the posts, it seems a few are on the verge of wearing out their welcome already - and I'm not basing that on the post about the rules, I'm basing it on reading the posts.

I don't know how much more clearly I can state that other than things done deceitfully, I don't have a single bit of problem with what anyone does regarding this. [/b]
OK Larry then explain in detail WHY you posted in the other forum with links to threads here that put you in a good light and made others look bad....threads that you had edited heavily ex post facto. Larry explain this to me in simple clear English so I can understand why your last post is not so full of ****.

jf
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:10 PM

hmmmm

- apple... who thinks it is odd that the most 'threatening' threads are the most popular and are most frequented by those who are threatened.
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:14 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
get over it, jolly, larry, apple, and the rest of you... you can't control what other people do. too bad![/b]

Excuse me, but you must not be understanding me. So for a third time, I don't care who goes where, who posts where, how they got there, nothing. I'm not trying to control anyone. [/b]
Then why did you stalk us and follow us there and post links back here to make you look good and us look bad...links to threads that you had edited heavily. Larry, why, You are such a hypocrite. You are such a COWARD...you can't even let us go or stand behind your own words....ytou have to edit and manipulate....let us go Larry...let us go....

jf
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:16 PM

 Quote:
hmmmm

- apple... who thinks it is odd that the most 'threatening' threads are the most popular and are most frequented by those who are threatened.
It's the equivalent of a car crash, apple. People can't help but stop by, especially when nice people like Elena are dragged through the mud.

But hey, if you think this type of argument is healthy for PW, you're entitled to that opinion.

Goodness, *where* are those moderators?!
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:20 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
Then Larry stalks us over there and begins posting links to Piano World threads that make him look good and us look bad -- and we ALL know Larry's well established reputation for editing his own posts to make sure history looks kindly on him.[/b]

Hold up there, sport. I haven't posted a single thing on that website. I don't even know what you're talking about, but I'll go look at it and see if I can figure out what your problem is.
[/b]
Larry, your puppet there is as transpareant as Cowboy Joe was here. If you mean what you say I can only say you are pathological. Seriously, not even your most strident fans ever believed that you were not Cowboy Joe (despite your adamanet denials) and they would feel no different with your puppet in pianoforum.net.

Get with the honesty program Larry or you are about to lose the last thread of credibility you ever had.

Never posted there. You are one big clear LIAR.

jf
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:23 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
and we ALL know Larry's well established reputation for editing his own posts to make sure history looks kindly on him.[/b]

And another thing - that is a bare assed lie, Jack. Other than deleting a few posts to copy your wife's vile filth in, I have never edited any of my posts. I had my reasons, you aren't able to grasp it, but that does not constitute a "well established reputation" for squat, slick. [/b]
Deleting a few" posts indeed. Even your most strident fans took you to task for that abomination. More thatn 15 posts where you edited the response to make it look like the other poster was out to lunch. More than 15 posts. Larry, you edited them to make her look bad.

You are SUCH a liar.

jf
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:26 PM

Then why did you stalk us and follow us there and post links back here to make you look good and us look bad...links to threads that you had edited heavily. Larry, why, You are such a hypocrite. You are such a COWARD...you can't even let us go or stand behind your own words....ytou have to edit and manipulate....let us go Larry...let us go.... [/b]

If you call me a coward again Jack, I'll drive up to Maine and prove you wrong.

Personally, I think you've lost your mind, Jack. Let me repeat myself once more:

I have NOT posted ONE SINGLE POST to that forum. I've only read the thing a couple of times. I'm not even registered. Since I haven't posted there, I can't possibly have posted any links.

As far as "letting you go" - PLEASE! Feel free! And for a FIFTH TIME, Jack, I don't care who posts where. I don't have a problem with any of it. Go in peace, enjoy yourself! I only addressed the issue that someone *else* put on the table, regarding collecting email addresses from here to talk people into *leaving* here. Other than that, no problem out of me, Jack.

{EDIT] I went over there and found the thread you keep referring to. You're losing it, Jack. You're accusing me of editing posts here to "make me look good", when the link is to this thread, and I haven't edited one single word.
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:28 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Frost:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
and we ALL know Larry's well established reputation for editing his own posts to make sure history looks kindly on him.[/b]

And another thing - that is a bare assed lie, Jack. Other than deleting a few posts to copy your wife's vile filth in, I have never edited any of my posts. I had my reasons, you aren't able to grasp it, but that does not constitute a "well established reputation" for squat, slick. [/b]
Deleting a few" posts indeed. Even your most strident fans took you to task for that abomination. More thatn 15 posts where you edited the response to make it look like the other poster was out to lunch. More than 15 posts. Larry, you edited them to make her look bad.

You are SUCH a liar.

jf [/b]
Jack, take it to Pianoforum.net \:D
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:31 PM

et with the honesty program Larry or you are about to lose the last thread of credibility you ever had.

Never posted there. You are one big clear LIAR.[/b]

Bite me, Jack. I don't give a rat's *** what you think of my credibility. I did not say one single word to you, I have not posted on that forum, I have no *intention* to post on that forum, and nothing would make me happier than to see your dysfunctional *** go there and stay. *YOU* have jumped me Jack, and for no reason. You think I'm a liar, I think you're as nuts as your wife. Happy?

I DID NOT POST A THING ON THAT WEBSITE.
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:33 PM

Then why did you stalk us and follow us there and post links back here to make you look good and us look bad...links to threads that you had edited heavily.[/b]

Proof you've lost your mind, Jack - the only link I could find over there links back to *THIS* thread, one I wish I'd never gotten involved in.
Posted by: Matt G.

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:38 PM

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=66e3d41b3b65d460de4ed813c535206c&topic=5966.0

Then who is Egon von Sprocket? Anyone? (Confession is good for the soul.)
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:39 PM

Matt, I assure you with everything in me it is not me.
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:46 PM

I have lost my mind if this was not you.....


Re: To the Newbies - You Know Who and What I'm Talking About
« Reply #7 on: Today at 02:15:04 AM »
Reply with quote
Quote from: Bob on Today at 01:58:02 AM
I'm curious how a whole group came over. I don't think that many people would just decide to leave a forum and then do a search and stumble on this piano forum. Did you guys all discuss leaving? Where is the site? Can we go back and see the wreckage?

Mr. Spock to Captain Kirk:

"The name on the ship appears to be the "Botany Bay'."


http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/10/7279.html

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/10/7243/6.html

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/10/7293.html
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:47 PM

Larry, your denial is just as adamant as your denial that you were Cowboy Joe, and WE ALL KNEW that was a pile of ****, so where is your credibility now?

You went there to poison what we were trying to start and that is a fact.

jf
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:49 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
I DID NOT POST A THING ON THAT WEBSITE. [/b]
Liar.

jf
Posted by: JBryan

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:50 PM

A world class ****ing contest to be sure.
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:52 PM

You went there to poison what we were trying to start and that is a fact.[/b]

No Jack, it is *not* a fact. I have not posted a thing on that website. But if you keep insisting on calling me a liar, I *will* register and post, and if you think you got your *** scorched by the person you keep saying is me, you ain't seen *nothing* like the scorching you'll get when I *do* post there, because I won't care if I ever post again.
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:55 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
You went there to poison what we were trying to start and that is a fact.[/b]

No Jack, it is *not* a fact. I have not posted a thing on that website. But if you keep insisting on calling me a liar, I *will* register and post, and if you think you got your *** scorched by the person you keep saying is me, you ain't seen *nothing* like the scorching you'll get when I *do* post there, because I won't care if I ever post again. [/b]
Your reputation precedes you and you won't get anywhere. If that is not you, tell me who is doing such a good job as pretending to be you...

And while you are at it, if you want to reclaim a thread of credibility, please admit here now that YOU ARE Cowboy Joe, notwithstnading your vehenent denials to the contrary...err...Pete....

jf
Posted by: Roxane

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 08:59 PM

Someone posts links to threads started by Larry and another on Jack's wife, and that someone automatically has to be Larry? How one can reach such a conclusion simply boggles the mind :rolleyes:
Posted by: Bill Ericson

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:03 PM

and round and round and round it goes :rolleyes:
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:03 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
If you call me a coward again Jack, I'll drive up to Maine and prove you wrong.
[/b]
Larry, for the record, I concede that you could beat the crap out of me. I am not a fighter. I hope that obviates any need that you might have to drive to Maine just you beat me up. If that is the game, you win and I give up.

jf
Posted by: Jeffrey

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:05 PM

Y'all are crazy, at least in this context. Maybe you are all normal people in real life, but here y'all are wrong and y'all are crazy.

If both sides don't stop it I will ask kluurs to post fish pictures, and if that doesn't cure it, I will post more baby pictures. Grow up folks.
Posted by: NAK

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:06 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
Y'all are crazy, at least in this context. Maybe you are all normal people in real life, but here y'all are wrong and y'all are crazy.

If both sides don't stop it I will ask kluurs to post fish pictures, and if that doesn't cure it, I will post more baby pictures. Grow up folks. [/b]
Will you post the baby pictures anyway? \:\)

Please, please, PLEEEEAAAASE!
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:08 PM

You're a sick man, Jack. You aren't even worth responding to any more.

I only know of one way to prove I haven't posted there before, and that's to post there now. See ya there, Jack. You're *not* going to like it.
Posted by: Jeffrey

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:14 PM

NAK - My problem is that I still haven't figured out how to make the pictures normal size. My wife can figure this kind of stuff out, but she has been, er, busy. Will post soon. \:\)
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:22 PM

I'm Egon. Anybody have a problem with that? \:D
Posted by: JBryan

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:30 PM

I am gonE. anyone have a problem with that? \:D
Posted by: YodiEvilTwin

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:31 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
I'm Egon. Anybody have a problem with that? \:D [/b]
That point was made 6 minutes earlier in the
Dark Side. \:D
Posted by: NAK

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:31 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
NAK - My problem is that I still haven't figured out how to make the pictures normal size. My wife can figure this kind of stuff out, but she has been, er, busy. Will post soon. \:\) [/b]
Would you like to PM me the URL for the picture? I could either post it for you, or resize it and send you the other URL.
Posted by: Friday

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:33 PM

Larry.

Dear, dear Lary.

Please leave them alone.
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:38 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by YodiEvilTwin:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
I'm Egon. Anybody have a problem with that? \:D [/b]
That point was made 6 minutes earlier in the
Dark Side. \:D [/b]
That the point made by Chick Grand?

Then he da man! Nice deducing on his part.
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:43 PM

OK, Larry, Tom has insisted that he is the one who posted on the other forum (in what I would consider a great imitation of you) and therefore i apologize to you for my previous posts. Apparentely I was wrong and I know I came on strong. Sorry.

jf
Posted by: NAK

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:44 PM

Okay, you two, kiss and make up.
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:44 PM

....and I would ask all of you to leave us alone wherever we go....

Thanks,

jf
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:45 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Frost:
....and I would ask all of you to leave us alone wherever we go....

Thanks,

jf [/b]
i guess I'll go unintroduce myself on the other side. :rolleyes:
Posted by: NAK

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:46 PM

Sheesh! Am I the only one who hasn't posted there? ;\)
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:52 PM

Friday, I wasn't bothering anyone. This thread started by leading me to believe that someone was collecting members' emails and emailing them in a concerted effort to get people to leave the forums. I made it clear from the beginning that I didn't care who posted where, that I had no problem with people telling others about another site, that I had no problem with *any* of that, but that I *did* have a problem if someone was trying to do harm in the process of it. As the thread mushroomed out of control, I ended up being attacked by Jack. I defended myself. Now, Jack has had to admit he was wrong, after calling me every name in the book. This isn't a case of *me* leaving them alone, it's a case of Jack leaving *me* alone. He attacked me, not the other way around.
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:55 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Frost:
....and I would ask all of you to leave us alone wherever we go....

Thanks,

jf [/b]
i guess I'll go unintroduce myself on the other side. :rolleyes: [/b]
Shelby? Hey, you are welcome as you if you are not stalking us....

jf
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:56 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Frost:
OK, Larry, Tom has insisted that he is the one who posted on the other forum (in what I would consider a great imitation of you) and therefore i apologize to you for my previous posts. Apparentely I was wrong and I know I came on strong. Sorry.

jf [/b]
Didn't know you two would have such a "have at it" and I did't read the forum or I would have come clean much sooner and resolved a lot of problems.

Well, Larry I guess it would have been totally wrong and bad of you to have written that post, but it was all fine and good for me to do so.

Such is life.

\:D
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 09:56 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
Friday, I wasn't bothering anyone. This thread started by leading me to believe that someone was collecting members' emails and emailing them in a concerted effort to get people to leave the forums. I made it clear from the beginning that I didn't care who posted where, that I had no problem with people telling others about another site, that I had no problem with *any* of that, but that I *did* have a problem if someone was trying to do harm in the process of it. As the thread mushroomed out of control, I ended up being attacked by Jack. I defended myself. Now, Jack has had to admit he was wrong, after calling me every name in the book. This isn't a case of *me* leaving them alone, it's a case of Jack leaving *me* alone. He attacked me, not the other way around. [/b]
Come on Larry, i said i was sorry. What do you want? A medal?

jf
Posted by: jodi

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:06 PM

You know, you all should have gone to bed about 4 pages ago. Paranoia from all sides. Sheesh. That was ugly with a capital U.

Jodi
Posted by: Friday

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:08 PM

I know that.

But I also know that you can "handle it". I'm not sure if The Others could handle it; isn't that why they left?

BTW, The Housebound just now told me that you should have gone over there and kicked some....
:rolleyes:
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:10 PM

BTW, The Housebound just now told me that you should have gone over there and kicked some....[/b]

\:D Tell the housebound I like how he thinks.... ;\)
Posted by: Friday

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:14 PM

\:D \:D Men... \:D
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:16 PM

Oh really...tell us what that would accomplish.......


jf
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:23 PM

Larry, I apologize if I caused you any discomfort. I NEVER meant to keep my identity as a secret, much less have you blamed for my (mis) deeds just a little joke at most.

Sorry, for any problem.

Tom
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:25 PM

No problem, Tom. You know Jack.... he has a real "nose" for smoking out those sockpuppets..... ;\)
Posted by: piqué

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:27 PM

jack, don't start in again. let this go.

tom, please go back over there and delete your post and the links. thank you.

is it clear now that there was no illegitimate effort on the part of anyone to spirit away PW members to another forum? yes? good. case closed.

those of you who like it here and want to stay here should do so.

those people who prefer it over there and want to enjoy posting there without being harassed, hounded, or stalked should be allowed to do so.

i didn't think things could get any uglier on PW than they have in recent weeks, but this is the worst i've seen.

people who are unhappy here have found a place they want to go. let them go. and leave them alone.
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:30 PM

those people who prefer it over there and want to enjoy posting there without being harassed, hounded, or stalked should be allowed to do so.[/b]

Then get over there and quit harassing, hounding, and stalking here.
Posted by: piqué

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:32 PM

how 'bout them baby pictures? ken, got any more info on fishies to share?
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:34 PM

originally posted by Pique
 Quote:
I go where I please, when I please.
But everyone else is not allowed, is that it?

Funny that you think you can come here "where you please and when you please", and demand someone remove their posts, then go back over there and demand others "leave you alone". Sad however, that you don't see the hypocrisy of it.
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:41 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by piqué:


tom, please go back over there and delete your post and the links. thank you.
[/b]
Yes, dear. \:\)
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 10:45 PM

If you do that Tom, *then* I'll have a problem..... \:D
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/21/04 11:06 PM

Larry every body saw it. I made my point. And further: Jack ain't a bad guy. As a matter of fact, he's a pretty good guy. Everytime I (and mabe we) take aim at kathy, he steps up and takes the arrow through his heart for her.

I may not agree with him but I admire his love and dedicatiom to his wife. He can't be faulted there. I hope that if I were in the same situation, I would be the kind of man he is.

Jack, tough guy that you are, I think I hurt you; and tough guy that I am, I'm sorry I made that hurt.

Tom

Tom
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 06:05 AM

 Quote:
Larry.

Dear, dear Lary.

Please leave them alone.
Can I just second this?

The people on that other board have done *nothing* to deserve any trouble. As best I can tell, they are quite nice and welcoming, and they all get along well.

Already, Larry has posted twice there. First, he claimed he was posting just to establish his IP address. Fine. I can't help but wonder if there wasn't an ulterior motive, though. After all, if one simply wanted to register and post once to establish an IP address, this could be done with an innocuous post about the weather.

But no. Larry's post called the newly arriving PW members names and imported the stench from here over there (italics mine).


**************************

LarryF:

Hello. This is my very first post to your forums. Let me start by saying it is not my intention of disrupting your forums, nor do I plan to post any other posts after this. I didn't even intend to post this one, but have been forced to do so out of necessity.

Let me explain. Several of the folks who have started posting here who came from Piano World are fine people. Jodi is as nice as she can be. Nina is nice too. A few however are arrogant snobs, self absorbed individuals who think they can do no wrong, and who, over time, will end up creating the same stench here that they created there. It is because of one of these arrogant, self absorbed know it all snobs that I find myself having to come here and post, in order that your moderator can have my ISP identity available to compare with another poster in this thread who goes by Egon something or other.

It seems that Jack Appleseed is convinced that this Egon fellow is me, trying to post links that, in his words, "portray him and his wife Athykay in a bad light". I don't have to portray them in a bad light. They do that quite well all by themselves, and in time, in my opinion they'll do it here too.

I'm not this Egon fellow, and I would appreciate it if the moderator would be so kind as to compare our ISP identities and acknowledge this publicly so Appleseed will shut up about it.

Thank you, I'm sorry for the intrusion, but I had to prove to Mr. Applesauce that I am *not* Egon whatever his name is.[/b]

************************

Minutes after declaring he would not post again, we got this delightful exchange:

************************

AliceOliver:

Fine. Now will those of you who prefer things as they are at PW please return there and enjoy it and leave the rest of us in peace?

Larry F:

Funny, I was just thinking the same about you.[/b]

Now, maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but I'd like to nip this before that other forum becomes as toxic as this one has become.

Please, can I implore those of you who have no genuine interest in that other venue (so far, that seems to be Tom, Larry and possibly Apple and perhaps a few others) to stay away? Pretty please? Further, please do not assume that those who have posted there intend to leave PW, as this is not true of most who have posted there. I haven't decided where I will post what, but I'd like to experience this other world before it becomes radioactive.

Thanks, folks.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 06:16 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:


Please, can I implore those of you who have no genuine interest in that other venue (so far, that seems to be Tom, Larry and possibly Apple and perhaps a few others) to stay away? [/b]
maybe we could make a deal.... \:\)

I have no desire to meddle with your participation in another forum.. I do desire that this forum not be poisoned by the resentment and resentment of those participating in the "Great Liberal Exodus" (hereinafter GLE)as KathyK calls it.

So quit poisoning this place with your arguments and demands and unfair allegations and I for one will unintroduce myself at the other forum.

We know you you hate us... Can you quit telling us? It's been duly noted.
Posted by: The 89th Key

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 06:29 AM

Ok, I dont feel like reading through the last 7 pages...can someone with an honest voice tell me (and others in my position) what's going on in this thread?

Thanks! \:\)
Posted by: plays88skeys

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 06:34 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Frost:
....and I would ask all of you to leave us alone wherever we go....

Thanks,

jf [/b]
:(

I didn't know I was a pest.
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 06:53 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
Ok, I dont feel like reading through the last 7 pages...can someone with an honest voice tell me (and others in my position) what's going on in this thread?

Thanks! \:\) [/b]
Honesty, as I see it:

1. I constantly bounce through the net (note the links I put up in the Takee Outee thread in the PF. I've known about who's who on the other forum for almost two weeks. It's pretty simple, all you have to do is bounce around and check who registered when.

It's not my part of the world, so no problemo. However, I noticed in one of Elena's posts that she mentioned she had been contacted about joining that forum. I do not know if that post eminated from one of our members, or Pluto.

2. I post a question on the ethics of solicitation. It may, or may not be related to point #1.

Some folks think it is fine to solicit. I do not, not when there is money on the line. And in the case of this website, I believe there is.

But that is simply personal ethics and opinion.

3. The most fascinating part of this thread is simply watching the interactions of the folks. That has been more illuminating than the original question.

4. If you see the handle "Jolly" on a forum, it's usually me. I don't sail under false colors.


Hope that helps...
Posted by: Jack Frost

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 06:56 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by plays88skeys:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Frost:
....and I would ask all of you to leave us alone wherever we go....

Thanks,

jf [/b]
:(

I didn't know I was a pest. [/b]
Plays,

not YOU silly! You have never bothered anybody as near as I can tell.

jf
Posted by: The 89th Key

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:00 AM

Thanks Jolly. \:\)

BTW, where did you get your name? I'm sure you've said this before, quite a few times actually, but I'm in the dark.

(no pun intended regarding the forum world)
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:01 AM

what about me Jack...
Posted by: kluurs

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:02 AM

2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. [/b]
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:04 AM

Apple:

 Quote:
I have no desire to meddle with your participation in another forum.. I do desire that this forum not be poisoned by the resentment and resentment of those participating in the "Great Liberal Exodus" (hereinafter GLE)as KathyK calls it.

So quit poisoning this place with your arguments and demands and unfair allegations and I for one will unintroduce myself at the other forum.

We know you you hate us... Can you quit telling us? It's been duly noted.
Let me be clear.

I plan to continue posting on PW until further notice. I never once said I was leaving this community, and I have no plans to leave because I enjoy the overwhelming majority of the people here. I consider myself a member in good standing here who follows Frank's rules, and I think you would be hard-pressed to prove otherwise.

Yes, some other people have left or scaled back their participation here. I have not, so I'd appreciate it if you'd keep that distinction in mind.

As far as who is poisoning PW, I'm feeling pretty confident that KathyK didn't start this thread. And Apple, if it is true that your interest is in the health of this community, I do not understand why you would have posted on that other forum at all. Very puzzling, that.

So yes, maybe we can make a deal. I won't participate on that new forum if I have no genuine interest in it, and you will do the same. As for whether you should delete your introduction over there, I haven't read it, so I'll leave that to your discretion.

Deal?
Posted by: kluurs

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:05 AM

There was no organized solicitation...

There were no ethical improprieties...

People just freely assembling and talking - in a different place...

As I noted in a previous post...a stressful time of the year...let us try and keep the peace of the season...

Frank... Please remove this thread.

K
Posted by: kluurs

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:06 AM

Too many words...
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:14 AM

I hope Frank will not remove this thread.

It speaks volumes.
Posted by: taiwan_girl

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:15 AM

 Quote:
...... and on earth peace, good will toward men.
I think this is good to repeat. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. \:\)
Posted by: sarah_blueparrot

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:25 AM

Can I please go to the bathroom? I hope you won't mind but our usual one is blocked up so I have to use the spare one. Is that ok?
Posted by: Jeffrey

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:26 AM

kluurs - No fish pictures?? I like fish pictures!
Posted by: kluurs

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:27 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:


It speaks volumes. [/b]
the precise reason for its demise...

K
Posted by: Larry

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:34 AM

Cindy writes:
 Quote:
The people on that other board have done *nothing* to deserve any trouble. As best I can tell, they are quite nice and welcoming, and they all get along well.

Already, Larry has posted twice there. First, he claimed he was posting just to establish his IP address. Fine. I can't help but wonder if there wasn't an ulterior motive, though.
Duh!! You think?

 Quote:
After all, if one simply wanted to register and post once to establish an IP address, this could be done with an innocuous post about the weather.

But no. Larry's post called the newly arriving PW members names and imported the stench from here over there (italics mine).
Excuse me. I had never posted there in my life, and had no intention of *ever* posting there. Maybe you had your brain in a jar somewhere during the two pages of accusations and name calling I went through *here* that provoked me into posting. You have extremely selective memory, lady. And as for my second post, are you the *only* one who hasn't figured out that alice oliver is Pique?

I keep hearing you, Jack, and Pique asking people to leave them in peace. You're like a bunch of Iraqi insurgents fighting out of a mosque. You seem to think it's all right for you to come here and take pot shots at people at will, but you want to be able to run over to your "safe house" and insist upon your innocence, and demand to be "left alone". If the three of you want to be left alone, quit coming here taking shots at people. Just go there and stay.
Posted by: kluurs

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:45 AM

Posted by: The 89th Key

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:50 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
kluurs - No fish pictures?? I like fish pictures! [/b]
Here ya go jeff: \:\)

Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 07:52 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I hope Frank will not remove this thread.

It speaks volumes. [/b]
We may disagree on what it speaks, but I agree, leave it.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 08:15 AM

Just in case a rather important point has truly been missed:

Larry:

 Quote:
I keep hearing you, Jack, and Pique asking people to leave them in peace.
No, you've not heard me say that. If you have, please do provide me with a quote.

My concern is for the innocent people in That Other Forum who have done nothing to deserve your unnecessary name-calling in That Other Forum.

I've never demanded that you leave *me* alone. I feel reasonably confident that I can handle you just fine.

I think it is awful to post something like that *there.* Regardless of the extent to which you feel you were "provoked." I mean, would it be OK for me to go to That Other Forum and say spiteful things about you just because we are exchanging words here? I would think not.

Now. My point is a simple one -- Do Not Foul The Waters There For Any Reason. Please do reflect on it.

There are other people on the planet to consider other than those who post on PW.


 Quote:
Cindy writes:

quote:The people on that other board have done *nothing* to deserve any trouble. As best I can tell, they are quite nice and welcoming, and they all get along well.

Already, Larry has posted twice there. First, he claimed he was posting just to establish his IP address. Fine. I can't help but wonder if there wasn't an ulterior motive, though.

Duh!! You think?

quote:After all, if one simply wanted to register and post once to establish an IP address, this could be done with an innocuous post about the weather.

But no. Larry's post called the newly arriving PW members names and imported the stench from here over there (italics mine).

Excuse me. I had never posted there in my life, and had no intention of *ever* posting there. Maybe you had your brain in a jar somewhere during the two pages of accusations and name calling I went through *here* that provoked me into posting. You have extremely selective memory, lady. And as for my second post, are you the *only* one who hasn't figured out that alice oliver is Pique?

I keep hearing you, Jack, and Pique asking people to leave them in peace. You're like a bunch of Iraqi insurgents fighting out of a mosque. You seem to think it's all right for you to come here and take pot shots at people at will, but you want to be able to run over to your "safe house" and insist upon your innocence, and demand to be "left alone". If the three of you want to be left alone, quit coming here taking shots at people. Just go there and stay.
Posted by: plays88skeys

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 08:36 AM

In ten years, what difference will anything written here have made in your lives?
Posted by: The 89th Key

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 08:48 AM

I agree plays, this thread has no chance of accomplishing ANYTHING.

Jolly posted a good, honest question, but it has gone so far off the trail, that it's pointless now.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 09:00 AM

Posted by: The 89th Key

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 09:06 AM

Apple, you forgot something!!



Believe it or not, that's an apple. \:\)
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 09:06 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by plays88skeys:
In ten years, what difference will anything written here have made in your lives? [/b]
In ten years time I expect all my post to be published in bound volumes, with a major motion picture deal or two in the works about my on line personae.

I also expect several PhD dissertations to have been done by then on my poetry and prose.

Not that much to ask. \:\)
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 09:19 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by plays88skeys:
In ten years, what difference will anything written here have made in your lives? [/b]
A lot.

Particularly on the PF, not necessarily in the CR.

Over 30 pianos that I know of, plus many more that I don't.

Even Chinese pianos will still be here in 10 years... ;\)
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Ethical? - 12/22/04 09:23 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Just in case a rather important point has truly been missed:

Larry:

 Quote:
I keep hearing you, Jack, and Pique asking people to leave them in peace.
No, you've not heard me say that. If you have, please do provide me with a quote.

My concern is for the innocent people in That Other Forum who have done nothing to deserve your unnecessary name-calling in That Other Forum.

I've never demanded that you leave *me* alone. I feel reasonably confident that I can handle you just fine.

I think it is awful to post something like that *there.* Regardless of the extent to which you feel you were "provoked." I mean, would it be OK for me to go to That Other Forum and say spiteful things about you just because we are exchanging words here? I would think not.

Now. My point is a simple one -- Do Not Foul The Waters There For Any Reason. Please do reflect on it.

There are other people on the planet to consider other than those who post on PW.


 Quote:
Cindy writes:

quote:The people on that other board have done *nothing* to deserve any trouble. As best I can tell, they are quite nice and welcoming, and they all get along well.

Already, Larry has posted twice there. First, he claimed he was posting just to establish his IP address. Fine. I can't help but wonder if there wasn't an ulterior motive, though.

Duh!! You think?

quote:After all, if one simply wanted to register and post once to establish an IP address, this could be done with an innocuous post about the weather.

But no. Larry's post called the newly arriving PW members names and imported the stench from here over there (italics mine).

Excuse me. I had never posted there in my life, and had no intention of *ever* posting there. Maybe you had your brain in a jar somewhere during the two pages of accusations and name calling I went through *here* that provoked me into posting. You have extremely selective memory, lady. And as for my second post, are you the *only* one who hasn't figured out that alice oliver is Pique?

I keep hearing you, Jack, and Pique asking people to leave them in peace. You're like a bunch of Iraqi insurgents fighting out of a mosque. You seem to think it's all right for you to come here and take pot shots at people at will, but you want to be able to run over to your "safe house" and insist upon your innocence, and demand to be "left alone". If the three of you want to be left alone, quit coming here taking shots at people. Just go there and stay.
[/b]
And here's the point...you both have them, and both are valid.

Larry didn't post in the other forum until he had his tail yanked. Hard.

But even at that, he probably shouldn't have lobbed a salvo in. However....

He has a point, also. If some folks wish to have a "safe haven", 'tis best not to go poke in the neighbor's campfire.