Coffee Room Post

Posted by: Cindysphinx

Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:04 PM

Looks like older brother got all the brains in the family. Sheez.

I don't approve of the cigarette, either.

**********************



LONDON Jan 13, 2005 Jewish groups and lawmakers criticized Prince Harry on Thursday for wearing a Nazi uniform to a costume party, with one group urging him to visit the Auschwitz death camp, despite an apology from the grandson of Queen Elizabeth II.

The 20-year-old prince apologized Wednesday in a statement after a British newspaper printed a picture of him wearing the uniform with a swastika armband while clutching a cigarette and a drink at a party on Saturday.

"I think a lot of people will be disappointed to see that photograph and it will cause a lot of offense," said Michael Howard, leader of Britain's main opposition Conservative Party.

"I think it might be appropriate for him to tell us himself just how contrite he now is," added Howard, who is Jewish.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles expressed outrage and urged Prince Harry to travel to Poland later this month to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz death camp.

"There he will see the results of the hated symbol he so foolishly and brazenly chose to wear," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean and founder of the center.

Prime Minister Tony Blair's office was reluctant to get involved. "Clearly an error was made," Blair's official spokesman said. "That has been recognized by Harry, and I think it is better that this matter continues to be dealt with by (Buckingham) Palace."

Jewish groups in Britain were more moderate in their criticism.

"The fact that the palace has issued an apology indicates that this was a mistake by the prince," said Rabbi Jonathan Romain, a spokesman for the Reform Synagogues of Great Britain. "But having being given, the apology should now be accepted."

A spokesman for the Board of Deputies of British Jews said the costume "was clearly in bad taste, especially in the run-up to Holocaust Memorial Day" on Jan. 27. But he added: "The board is pleased that he's apologized for the incident."

The queen will commemorate the Holocaust and 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz by inviting survivors of the Nazi death camps and British World War II veterans who liberated them to a reception at St. James' Palace.

The picture of Prince Harry, the second son of Prince Charles and Princess Diana, appeared in The Sun newspaper.

In the statement, Harry said he was "very sorry if I caused any offense or embarrassment to anyone."

"It was a poor choice of costume and I apologize," he added.[/b]

Harry, who plans to enroll this year at a military college, has long been known as the wilder of Charles and Diana's two handsome sons, in contrast to his university-student brother Prince William, 22.

Harry, third in line to the throne, has been photographed drinking in London's trendiest nightclubs and three years ago was sent by his father to observe a drug rehabilitation center after being caught smoking marijuana. In October, he scuffled with a paparazzi photographer outside a London nightclub.

A former Buckingham Palace spokesman said he believed Prince Charles was too easy on his sons.

"I'm sorry, the Prince of Wales, he's a humanitarian and he does some terrific work, but I don't think he has the right discipline over his children, particularly Prince Harry," Dickie Arbiter told Sky News TV.
Posted by: Larry

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:06 PM

Oh, I thought......

never mind......
Posted by: gryphon

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:08 PM

You expect too much, Larry.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:09 PM

Actually, Larry, I was rather hoping *you'd* take the hint. \:\)
Posted by: Larry

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:11 PM

And I don't expect anything else from you, Cindy.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:13 PM

 Quote:
And I don't expect anything else from you, Cindy.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Posted by: sarah_blueparrot

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:15 PM

It is not a very well-known fact that Prince Harry is in fact the first person to appear photographed with his top on in this prestigious newspaper.

I didn't think that The Sun kept up to date with anything other than Jordan. :rolleyes:
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:17 PM

He would be better off to have gone topless! ;\)
Posted by: Renauda

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:21 PM

I admit Harry's over the edge and in bad form with the swastika- there are plenty of other costumes he could have worn. But then he could be in awe of his late great uncle, the Duke of Windsor (better known as Edward VIII- the King who abdicated so he could marry that divorced tart, Mrs. Wallace Simpson). The Duke and Joe Kennedy Sr. rather liked that scoundrel Hitler.

As for the cigarette, Harry's probably emulating his great grandfather George VI. Great Grandpapa was a chain smoker who actually got on quite well with another chain smoker- FDR.
Posted by: apple*

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:39 PM

HE'S 20 years old...probably showing his friends how he's not controlled by his stuffy old relatives...
Posted by: QuirtEvans

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:43 PM

He may be 20 years old, but he makes a very good argument against monarchy.
Posted by: Jolly

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:46 PM

A couple of points...

1. We were all brain-dead at 20. Hopefully, some of us got better with age.

2. You have to admit, Jordan is probably worthy of having film wasted on her.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 01:59 PM

Yeah, he showed his friends, all right!

I wasn't brain dead at 20. I think there was a small, faint flicker in one lobe.

You had to look pretty closely to find it, though! ;\)

Cindy -- thinking Harry and Paris Hilton are definitely a match
Posted by: Renauda

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:01 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
He may be 20 years old, but he makes a very good argument against monarchy. [/b]
Chances of Harry becoming King are pretty slim. As the article points out, his healthy father and slightly older brother are ahead of him. Besides he's being a wee bit like his uncle Andrew the Duke of York in his youth. Randy Andy as he was known, was second in line after Charles and enjoyed the company of the corn porn actress Koo Stark.

In any case Slick Willy of Arkansas didn't do much for the image of republican government either when he stated, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." We sure got a laugh out of that line.
Posted by: JBryan

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:15 PM

Maybe he can become dictator.
Posted by: justme

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:20 PM

I look at young people and try to be forgiving. I believe MOST OF US were young and dumb at some point in our lives. I know I was.

just my 2 cents,
Posted by: justme

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:21 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
Oh, I thought......

never mind...... [/b]
I'll admit the same thing crossed my mind. Oh well, wrong again. \:\(
Posted by: Renauda

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:22 PM

Maybe he can become dictator.[/b]

He would be the first Henry after Henry VIII. I suppose there's a bit of precedent- but despite Cromwell, it is a stretch .
Posted by: Chris Aher

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:23 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by justme:
I look at young people and try to be forgiving. I believe MOST OF US were young and dumb at some point in our lives. I know I was.

just my 2 cents, [/b]
I resemble that remark!
Posted by: Googlism

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:33 PM

What a total idiot.

Has he learned about history? Isn't it obvious that the Nazi emblem is a controversial and extremely negative icon? Why the f*** did he have to choose that? I don't accept his apology because he obviously there is something that he is hiding. Probably he is against Jews. Probably he does want to become a dictator!
Posted by: sarah_blueparrot

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:35 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Googlism:
Isn't it obvious that the Nazi emblem is a controversial and extremely negative icon? Why the f*** did he have to choose that? [/b]
You might want to consider reading this article (from a reputable newspaper) before you start splurging asterisks all over my page.
Posted by: sarah_blueparrot

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:37 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Googlism:
I don't accept his apology because he obviously there is something that he is hiding. Probably he is against Jews. Probably he does want to become a dictator! [/b]
Yes, almost certainly. Almost as certain as the fact that 5-year old girls who dress up as witches at Hallowe'en come from Arthur Miller's imagination.
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:40 PM

I understand how he feels.

I'm something of a prince of a guy myself and when I make an occasional mistake it tends to gets all blown up all out of proportion, too.
Posted by: sarah_blueparrot

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:44 PM

Nay, Tom. You are le Dauphin.
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:48 PM

Sarah---you are so sweet. \:\)
Posted by: Phlebas

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:48 PM

The first thing I thought about when I saw this story was:

"Will the Dancing Hitlers wait in the wing-we are only seeing singing Hitlers."

Posted by: Renauda

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:50 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
I understand how he feels.

I'm something of a prince of a guy myself and when I make an occasional mistake it tends to gets all blown up all out of proportion, too. [/b]
Quite right Tom. I'm expecting a thread any day now questioning the brown tinted shirt in your avatar. As it does not expose the sleeve there is no telling what, if any type of arm band, you may be concealing.

I agree with Sarah, you are the Tsarevich.
Posted by: jazzyd

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:50 PM

What a lot of fuss about nothing! This is just part of a new fashion craze which has been sweeping our septic isle. Why, only a few days ago Harry and William were wearing the red cross... But, of course, the sartorially-challenged media failed to pick up on it.



Indeed, at the weekend, I myself could have been seen wandering through the Lake District sporting a trilby with a rather fetching Satanic pentagram. I was pleased to find several other ramblers gesticulating towards me during the course of the day.


David
Posted by: jello_g

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:50 PM

Whoa, cool down Goog! As sarah's link pointed out, the symbol's been around way longer than the Nazis.

<-- Buddhism in ancestry.
Posted by: Phlebas

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 02:54 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
I understand how he feels.

I'm something of a prince of a guy myself and when I make an occasional mistake it tends to gets all blown up all out of proportion, too. [/b]
And all this time I thought it was a Napoleon complex you had.
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 03:02 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Phlebas:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
I understand how he feels.

I'm something of a prince of a guy myself and when I make an occasional mistake it tends to gets all blown up all out of proportion, too. [/b]
And all this time I thought it was a Napoleon complex you had. [/b]
Hay I'm 6' 1"!!! \:D
Posted by: Renauda

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 03:05 PM

Marshall Pilsudski was also about 6'1".
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 03:13 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Renauda:
Marshall Pilsudski was also about 6'1". [/b]
Oddly we have the same look, too:

Posted by: ycul

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 03:28 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Renauda:
Marshall Pilsudski was also about 6'1". [/b]
Oddly we have the same look, too:

[/b]
Brrrrrrr.....He looks chilly.

Btw, did you know Charles and Camilla were at The Producers last week?

Edit: Reference to Phlebas quote. ;\)
Posted by: Freedom

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 03:34 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzyd:
What a lot of fuss about nothing! This is just part of a new fashion craze which has been sweeping our septic isle. Why, only a few days ago Harry and William were wearing the red cross... But, of course, the sartorially-challenged media failed to pick up on it.



[/b]
Absolutely. I think that the papers (The Sun particularly :rolleyes: ) are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Sure it wasn't the cleverest thing to do, but seriously I don't think there is any need for everyone to start saying all this bad stuff about him, it was a private party after all it's not like it was a public conference or anything similar. The papers follow him and try to catch his next mistake, which if it wasn't for the papers, wouldn't have offended anyone because nobody would know about it. I personally am sick of hearing of all the mistakes that the royal family have made, the media go for anything, like the Queen has a hair out of place and there at her like a pack of starving wolves. :rolleyes: ;\)

Freedom \:\)
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 03:40 PM

When I was in college, a student wore a Klan costume to a party. It caused quite a ruckus.

And this was in conservative *Arizona.* In the 1980s.

Regarding Harry and the Royals, there's no such thing as a private party. He's had the best education and grooming possible, so it's hard to figure he just didn't understand what he was doing.

Really, if he's that unhappy being a Royal (and I can understand why a person would hate it), he should bail. Looks like he wants to have it both ways . . .
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 03:50 PM

I hear the queens a fun girl, too--it runs in the family.

Posted by: jazzyd

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 03:56 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Freedom:
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzyd:

[A load of nonsense.][/b]
[A sensible reply.][/b]
You make some good points, Freedom. I take it you don't really believe that I've been walking in the hills wearing a trilby with a satanic pentagram on it, or that there's a fashion craze for emblems...? ;\)


David
Posted by: Nina

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 04:03 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Phlebas:
The first thing I thought about when I saw this story was:

"Will the Dancing Hitlers wait in the wing-we are only seeing singing Hitlers."
[/b]
:D \:D
Posted by: jazzyd

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 04:05 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Regarding Harry and the Royals, there's no such thing as a private party. He's had the best education and grooming possible, so it's hard to figure he just didn't understand what he was doing.[/b]
You can take the man out of Eton, but you can't take Eton out of the man.


David
Posted by: ycul

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 04:07 PM

David, good to see P.C. got the top comedian award the other week wasn't it? \:\)
Posted by: jazzyd

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 04:23 PM

Very good. \:\) And good to see Chris "angry political goose" Morris high up, too, despite having grievously overestimated the collective intelligence.


David
Posted by: Renauda

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 04:26 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Regarding Harry and the Royals, there's no such thing as a private party. He's had the best education and grooming possible, so it's hard to figure he just didn't understand what he was doing.

Really, if he's that unhappy being a Royal (and I can understand why a person would hate it), he should bail. Looks like he wants to have it both ways . . . [/b]
1) Harry knows that he is paprazzi fodder.

2)You are making assumptions about whether or not he likes being a Royal. He appears to enjoy partying like most single Englishman his age. Unlike his older brother William, Harry, like his uncle Andrew, has never been groomed to be the King of England.

3) Just who the bleedin' h3ll are you to judge how a 'Royal' should behave? It's between him and his family. No one else.
Posted by: ycul

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 04:26 PM

David:
 Quote:
Very good. And good to see Chris "angry political goose" Morris high up, too, despite having grievously overestimated the collective intelligence.


David
Yep. Couldn't believe he made it into the top 10. Especially after the Crazy World of Arthur Brown episode. ;\)
Posted by: Tom--K

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 04:29 PM

At this point they would make no less sense if they were speaking French. \:D
Posted by: ravenswood

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 04:39 PM

sarah_blueparrot,

Your post adding some factual information was much appreciated, but really, do you think that in wearing that particular symbol on an armband with a brown shirt he was attempting to emulate the founder of the Boy Scouts or Rudyard Kipling??? Call me cynical, but I just can't buy that.

I agree that a young, well-educated man should certainly have known better. This perhaps even more so as his family's "business" seems to be based on public relations, for the most part. But, he is young, and he has apologized. In my opinion, time for the media to move on.

ravenswood
Posted by: Jeffrey

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 05:10 PM

Another set of reactions: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/526880.html


20 is above the "age of reason". To me it would seem offensive not only to Jews, but to Brits who served in WWII or survived the Blitz. Why does England still have a royal family, please tell me? Aren't there revolutions or something for this kind of thing?
Posted by: Renauda

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 05:37 PM

The King or Queen of England is also our head of state. Same with Australia and New Zealand. Constitutional monarchy rocks!
Posted by: Jeffrey

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 05:40 PM

Ren - "The King or Queen of England is also our head of state."

My condolences. We knew enough to kick them out completely.
Posted by: ivorythumper

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 05:57 PM

You don't suppose he was just "subtly" alluding to his Hanoverian heritage?

Bad form, anyway.
Posted by: Ballyhoo

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 06:19 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
Ren - "The King or Queen of England is also our head of state."

My condolences. We knew enough to kick them out completely.
We would've kicked them out had it not been for some trickery by the government.
Posted by: Larry

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 06:26 PM

I don't know anything about the kid, but I just watched a news story about this little flap, and a fellow who knows the family was being interviewed. He said the kid isn't very bright, a fair bit slow.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 07:03 PM

 Quote:
3) Just who the bleedin' h3ll are you to judge how a 'Royal' should behave? It's between him and his family. No one else.
Yeah, good point. People shouldn't have opinions about the propriety of the behavior of public figures. Harry should have told everyone it was none of their business.

:rolleyes:
Posted by: Renauda

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 07:35 PM

An' cheers t' you luv. T' royals is t'royals 'ey dance to a diff'ren drummer t'an wee's common workin' folk. You'se got t' keep y'er bleedin' nose 'out'ta other's privates I say so's t'ey keeps 'er noses 'out'ta o'rs - if yo's catch me's meanin'. ;\) Another pint fo' m'lady friend 'ere. ;\)
Posted by: Googlism

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 07:50 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by sarah_blueparrot:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Googlism:
Isn't it obvious that the Nazi emblem is a controversial and extremely negative icon? Why the f*** did he have to choose that? [/b]
You might want to consider reading this article (from a reputable newspaper) before you start splurging asterisks all over my page. [/b]
Ok, let me restate the phrase, "Isn't it obvious that the Nazi emblem is considered to be an icon of evil and hatred?"

The general public, including me, associate the emblem as one used by the Nazis. In fact, I think not many people also know about the previous use and meaning of the emblem. But put yourself in Harry's shoes before attending the party. Would you want to wear something that is deemed as an extremely controversial and negative icon? Even if he were to wear the emblem without any intention of insulting Jews (or any other group who despise the emblem), wouldn't it make sense to explain his real intentions before going to the party, and also explaining his intentions in his apology?
Posted by: Jeffrey

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 07:54 PM

Cindy - He also wore a full Nazi uniform, not just an armband. According to Larry King Live, it was a "bad taste" party with the theme of "natives and colonialists". Again, 20 is old enough to vote, to drink, to volunteer for the army. The PR flacks are trying to make this die down, but I hope it doesn't.
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 08:02 PM

Ah, he was suckered in by a "bad taste" party. That makes it doubly weird that his "handlers" (who you would expect to be on Permanent High Alert with that kid) wouldn't notice their charge taking to the streets in full Nazi regalia.

That would make a good thread: What would you wear to a "Bad Taste Party?"

I think I'd answer "My regular clothes." ;\)
Posted by: Renauda

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 08:05 PM

His older brother went dressed as a leopard.

So what do you suggest be done? Disinherit the kid for being slow? Put him in the army? Oh, wait a minute; he's going into the army. That should straighten him out- next time he'll go the party dressed as a 'Worker On Government Service' or a Zulu king.
Posted by: Googlism

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 08:16 PM

Send him to Iraq.
Posted by: jgoo

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 11:05 PM

edit
Posted by: Bernard

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/13/05 11:18 PM

Never mind.
Posted by: Freedom

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/14/05 12:21 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
I hear the queens a fun girl, too--it runs in the family.

[/b]
Posted by: Cindysphinx

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/14/05 06:07 AM

 Quote:
So what do you suggest be done?
Apparently, Prince Charles is clear on what should be done. He is reported to be seriously cheesed off about this. Both sons will be paying an unglamorous visit to Auschwitz shortly to Learn A Thing Or Two.

Sounds like a nice start.

Oh, and we now know how it is that his guards/advisors let him go out looking like that. He wore a coat over the costume, which obscured the offending insignia. Makes sense. Kinda shows he knew he was doing the wrong thing.

Ah, well. Look on the bright side. He wasn't caught on film sucking someone's toes! \:\)

Cindy -- wondering how much the tabloids pay for a picture like that
Posted by: Renauda

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/14/05 08:13 AM

I agree , the Prince of Wales decision to send the two lads on a cultural sensitivity tour to Auschwitz is probably a good start. While in the area they ought to take a side trip to Kyiv (formerly Kiev) and visit the memorial at Babi Yar [/b] where the SS machine gunned 33,000 resident Jews over the space of two days. Over the ensuing months the Nazis then processed the local Ukrainian and Russian population in the same ravine. In total 100,000 victims were slaughtered there.
Posted by: Nunatax

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/14/05 08:35 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
I hear the queens a fun girl, too--it runs in the family.

[/b]
Hm, I think she's too tall for her sunbed...
Posted by: ycul

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/14/05 11:14 AM

Good to see the British press are taking this seriously anyway. \:D

Posted by: Jeffrey

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/14/05 11:40 AM

ycul - Why exactly do you guys still have a royal family anyway? I'll give the French credit for one thing, at least.
Posted by: ivorythumper

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/14/05 11:46 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by ycul:
Good to see the British press are taking this seriously anyway. \:D

[/b]
What's a father to do? You do everything to raise them as aristocrats and they wind up associating with a lower worker class socialist movement that was a product of complex historical contingencies...
Posted by: ycul

Re: Coffee Room Post - 01/14/05 11:52 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
ycul - Why exactly do you guys still have a royal family anyway? I'll give the French credit for one thing, at least. [/b]
Jeffrey - no idea mate, it's not something that interests me.