Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall

Posted by: suniil

Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/18/12 07:27 AM

Streaming live on Youtube at 8PM tomorrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4NQPteMjuo
Posted by: lilylady

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/18/12 08:27 AM

That would be 3PM EDT (boston)
Posted by: bennevis

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/18/12 08:34 AM

Don't forget she's a guest on this afternoon's 'In Tune' program on the BBC's classical radio station Radio 3 (www.bbc.co.uk/radio3 - click on Programmes, then 'I' for In Tune), starting at 1630 BST (just under 3 hours from now). She'll probably be playing a few pieces on the studio Steinway B to wet our appetites for tomorrow....
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/18/12 08:44 AM

In the great tradition of spelling/grammar nazis prowling PW, you meant "whet", right?? :P

What will she be playing?
Posted by: bennevis

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/18/12 08:58 AM

Aha, you spotted the deliberate mishtake grin.
I believe guests on the program turn up on the day with a list of what they want to play, usually around 15 minutes' worth of music (plus chat). So we won't know until she arrives.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/18/12 11:11 AM

Look out for me in the audience laugh
Posted by: slipperykeys

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/18/12 01:30 PM

Piano event of the year for me.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 09:43 AM

If anyone else from here is going, do say hi if you see me. I have a lot of time to kill before the concert haha. Unfruitfully trying to find somewhere o practice.
Posted by: Andy Platt

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 09:52 AM

Originally Posted By: debrucey
If anyone else from here is going, do say hi if you see me. I have a lot of time to kill before the concert haha. Unfruitfully trying to find somewhere o practice.


They'll probably have a nice piano down on the stage; I'm sure nobody will mind if you use it. wink
Posted by: suniil

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 01:30 PM

She is going to attract lot of you tubers today, as youtube features her in Music spotlight.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 01:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Andy Platt
Originally Posted By: debrucey
If anyone else from here is going, do say hi if you see me. I have a lot of time to kill before the concert haha. Unfruitfully trying to find somewhere o practice.


They'll probably have a nice piano down on the stage; I'm sure nobody will mind if you use it. wink
Yes, why not play the Appassionata followed by several Rachmaninov pieces? Kind of a pre concert recital.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 02:18 PM

I could actually do that lol, I have those pieces in my rep at the moment. But I don't think I will try and upstage valentina lisitsa hah
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 02:21 PM

Broadcasting team are all set up :p

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/194820_10150887880656977_533302013_o.jpg
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 02:37 PM

Not too bad a seat considering how late I left it

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/458926_10150887985276977_1612673192_o.jpg
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 03:00 PM

Originally Posted By: debrucey
I could actually do that lol, I have those pieces in my rep at the moment.
That's why I chose them!

Is Royal Albert Hall as amazing to English people as I guess it is to most Americans? It makes Carnegie Hall or Avery Fischer Hall look like my living room. The first time I saw RAH was when I Youtubed the celebratory performance of Jerusalem from the Proms.
Posted by: babama

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 04:05 PM

Very nice so far!
(moonlight 3rd movement little faults and tempo rushes are forgivable imo :P)
Posted by: Entheo

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 04:34 PM

she is exactly the kind of talent classical music needs, capable of attracting a whole new audience and reaching them thru new media.

and man, that bosie imperial sounds grrrreat.
Posted by: babama

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 04:40 PM

Ouch Rachmaninoff not going so well IMO. Tempo choices too extreme. Too much risk in 39/6 and 23/5. 32/12 rushed. 32/10 messed up the most important moment (the cadenza).
Posted by: lilylady

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 04:46 PM

I am enjoying.

29,000 viewing.

baba

how about what she IS doing right? huh?
Posted by: Entheo

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 04:48 PM

pure awesomeness IMHO. can't quite believe i'm watching a fantastic live concert in RAH in the middle of the afternoon (chicago time). i'm not getting my work done!
Posted by: lilylady

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 04:50 PM

Here comes Chopin!
Posted by: Old Man

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:09 PM

Currently playing Liszt Todtentanz. Never heard a solo version, but it's just as impressive.
Posted by: suniil

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:12 PM

Imperial Bösendorfer smile Valentina is in top form
Posted by: bplary1300

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:15 PM

She messed up the cadenza pretty badly....everything is so fast!!
Posted by: Entheo

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:16 PM

that piano is a perfect match for her -- amazing. wonder if it's mic'd for the size of that hall?
Posted by: babama

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:16 PM

Scriabin and Chopin was nice and Totentanz makes up for Rachmaninoff. smile
Posted by: bplary1300

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:18 PM

Too fast...honestly I thought a lot of it sounded pretty sloppy...
Posted by: suniil

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:23 PM

For me who knows nothing about classical music, it is not about the note-by-note mistakes but this is the moment an average music lover can appreciate Classical Music and the effort behind it.
Posted by: babama

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:25 PM

It's not as good as her youtube video I'll give you that, but still very impressive the way she pulled it off live.
Posted by: Entheo

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:25 PM

well said suniil
Posted by: bplary1300

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:26 PM

I just wish she hadn't gone so fast...much faster at parts than in the video which is already so fast..
Posted by: babama

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:27 PM

Oh my god she starts in such crazy tempos in some pieces, this can't go right with La Campanella. laugh
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:33 PM

The blue hairs must be aghast that there was applause during the beginning octaves of La Campanella.
Posted by: Recaredo

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:40 PM

I can only speak as a music lover, but I’ve really enjoyed this concert.
Posted by: Dara

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:44 PM

I'd say that was fantastic!
Great HD video and sound capture .... streaming live in to my living room out in the middle of the forest on the wild west coast of Canada.
What an age we live in to be able to share such events in real time.
Thanks Valentina and all the crew involved.
Posted by: Piano Again

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:53 PM

The strangest thing for me was how she barely paused between pieces. The segue from the Chopin Nocturne to Totentanz was pretty weird. I guess she was trying to fit everything in because there was a time limit, but it made it seem frantic. Too bad she couldn't take her time.

Otherwise, I really enjoyed it (watching out of the corner of my eye while working, listening on headphones).

And of course she was really nervous -- who wouldn't be? -- but I thought she pulled it off well.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 05:59 PM

My only real criticism would be the excessive length of the program, especially the second half.

I liked her performance of the Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody and Schubert Liszt song transcriptions the most.
Posted by: Old Man

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 06:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Entheo
she is exactly the kind of talent classical music needs, capable of attracting a whole new audience and reaching them thru new media.

Well said.

Preaching to the same choir will not sustain the classics much beyond the current generation of old fogies such as myself. And if it takes embracing new technologies and allowing a younger generation of pianists to show a little more of their personalities (God, forbid!), then so be it. At least Bach, Beethoven and Chopin may actually live to see another day.
Posted by: Thrill Science

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 06:36 PM

It was wonderful to see that on YouTube, and judging from the YouTube comments, this was a much-needed introduction to the classical piano repertoire for a lot of kids!

(And I always support fellow Bösendorfer Artists :-) )
Posted by: AlexanderGrant71

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 07:44 PM

poor babama wishes they could be as amazing
Posted by: Brendan

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 07:59 PM

Originally Posted By: AlexanderGrant71
poor babama wishes they could be as amazing


Don't.

I liked her Totentanz the most. It was crazy fast, but it's kind of okay to lose it with that piece. smile
Posted by: didyougethathing

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 08:42 PM

Arghhh! I missed it! Probably a good chance that some or all of the performances will be up on YouTube, knowing her.

Anyone know the full program?
Posted by: Lisa C

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/19/12 10:05 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pCQ1f520o4&feature=youtu.be&a
Posted by: didyougethathing

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 12:04 AM

Woah! Thanks! grin
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 12:15 AM



Thanks for the link! It's about 12% of the way to being on my ipod. smile
Posted by: didyougethathing

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 12:17 AM

Anyone else hear the dude's camera in the front row? Kinda irritating :\
Posted by: babama

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 06:38 AM

Originally Posted By: AlexanderGrant71
poor babama wishes they could be as amazing


No I don't, I want to have a life next to piano. Just being out there in front of so many and performing all these pieces on this level is something I could never do nor want to do.
But nobody is beyond critique. I think she rushed too much and that particularly affected the Rachmaninoff pieces.
Besides that, impressive performance and big respect for her.
I guess you're one of those blind fanboys from youtube who don't allow any critique. If you read all my posts in this thread you'll see I'm actually quite positive.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 07:24 AM

The worst kind of fan is one who is blind to the artist's faults.

I really enjoyed the concert. May write more about it later when I'm home and not on my phone.
Posted by: Andromaque

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 07:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Damon


Thanks for the link! It's about 12% of the way to being on my ipod. smile


You can skip the first 20 minutes or so. Lengthy banter and some kind of light comedy act. "If your phone rings, please email me your name and phone number so you can get credit on the CD". FOud it pretty annoying and lost my patience. will have to check it out later.
Posted by: JoelW

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 11:03 AM

Wow people are still talking about her? Yawn.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 12:29 PM

That's a bit mean spirited. I thought her pre concert talk was delightful.
Posted by: Andy Platt

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By: debrucey
That's a bit mean spirited. I thought her pre concert talk was delightful.


I bet there was a huge difference being there and watching on YouTube as far as that goes though ...
Posted by: notbach

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 01:54 PM

I stopped after a few minutes, it was so distracting.

Edit: In response to "Anyone else hear the dude's camera in the front row? Kinda irritating :\"
Posted by: didyougethathing

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 02:08 PM

Originally Posted By: notbach
I stopped after a few minutes, it was so distracting.

Edit: In response to "Anyone else hear the dude's camera in the front row? Kinda irritating :\"


Luckily it stops about halfway through the first piece.
Posted by: Old Man

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 02:41 PM

Originally Posted By: scherzojoe
Wow people are still talking about her? Yawn.

Wow, and people are still talking about Jimmy Page on your thread? grin
Posted by: Ridicolosamente

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 11:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Originally Posted By: Damon


Thanks for the link! It's about 12% of the way to being on my ipod. smile


You can skip the first 20 minutes or so. Lengthy banter and some kind of light comedy act. "If your phone rings, please email me your name and phone number so you can get credit on the CD". FOud it pretty annoying and lost my patience. will have to check it out later.
I think she's so humble and charming. I enjoyed the talk.

I loved the Chopin Eb Nocturne, a piece I've certainly heard enough of. I enjoyed the bits of originality in there (now let's hear from those who hated it.)

-Daniel
Posted by: didyougethathing

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/20/12 11:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Ridicolosamente

I loved the Chopin Eb Nocturne, a piece I've certainly heard enough of. I enjoyed the bits of originality in there (now let's hear from those who hated it.)

-Daniel


If you read the program notes (here), she mentions that she bought a new Urtext edition and found two versions, one with the ornamentations that she used. I've never heard of any such edition, I wonder if someone can clarify.
Posted by: MathGuy

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 01:57 AM

Originally Posted By: didyougethathing
Originally Posted By: Ridicolosamente

I loved the Chopin Eb Nocturne, a piece I've certainly heard enough of. I enjoyed the bits of originality in there (now let's hear from those who hated it.)

-Daniel


If you read the program notes (here), she mentions that she bought a new Urtext edition and found two versions, one with the ornamentations that she used. I've never heard of any such edition, I wonder if someone can clarify.
What she plays is close, but not exactly identical, to the "Version with later authentic variants" that appears in the Polish National Edition edited by Jan Ekier. That may be the edition she's referring to.

Speaking of the nocturnes, I found it interesting that in the program notes Lisitsa passionately advocates taking 27/2 at the indicated 50 dotted quarters per minute, and yet in the recital played it at a much more conventional 30 to 32. She claims in the notes that it makes "perfect sense" at 50, but I just tried it myself and found that hard to imagine, except possibly through the use of so much rubato as to make a tempo the exception rather than the rule. In particular, the (in)famous measure 52, with its 48 consecutive notes, would require 20 notes per second if rendered at full speed!
Posted by: Gould

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 09:50 AM

Are there speakers connected to the piano? How do the audiences at the back even hear the piano properly in such a big hall?
Posted by: bennevis

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 12:21 PM

I've never known classical music to be amplified in the RAH: its very reverberant acoustic can project even a solo piano's ppp to the back of the hall, as long as the audience is silent.

When Evgeny Kissin, Lang Lang, Andras Schiff and Maria Joao Pires played there in the past (in the BBC Proms), they weren't amplified.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 12:50 PM

My impressions from the live youtube event:

Mrs. Lisitsa is not for the perfectionist classical music listener.
Even so that, she urged photographers to do their job during the Liszt Rhapsody, which was the first piece she played, because after that she said that the official concert would begin which would also be recorded for the Decca label. She was so comfortable playing along with the photographers shooting clicks.

But beginning with Mozart Fantasie, I felt that she was very tense, not to make a single mistake, and this continued with the Beethoven too.
I can speculate that she was advised to play more freely and not care too much during the intermission. Which IMO, showed some evindence in the Rachmaninoff Etude. But then again things didn't go as good as she would want.

And finally Totentanz and the finale of Campanelle took their share from all the above.

At the end of the concert I really felt a bit sad for her. Because I could read her disappointment from her face. This event perhaps was very important for her and she could have dreamed it to come out much better.


Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 01:49 PM

Originally Posted By: debrucey


I'm in that photo! Rear head shot, hence closer than you. Not sure I gave you permission smile Row 6, left, could see directly her hands. No blood after the Totentanz that I could see.

I also enjoyed the concert, although, erm, I'm not a big fan of that music (what sort is that then?).

There's a review of the concert here as was tweeted by Valentina.

I used JS Pianos practice rooms to practice.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Originally Posted By: debrucey


I'm in that photo! Rear head shot, hence closer than you. Not sure I gave you permission smile Row 6, left, could see directly her hands. No blood after the Totentanz that I could see.

I also enjoyed the concert, although, erm, I'm not a big fan of that music (what sort is that then?).

There's a review of the concert here as was tweeted by Valentina.

I used JS Pianos practice rooms to practice.


Well, IMO that is a very generous review.
Probably taking into account that she is coming from nowhere.
But, I don't think this concert will silence her critics as claimed by the reviewer.
Posted by: AldenH

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 03:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Originally Posted By: debrucey


I'm in that photo! Rear head shot, hence closer than you. Not sure I gave you permission smile Row 6, left, could see directly her hands. No blood after the Totentanz that I could see.

I also enjoyed the concert, although, erm, I'm not a big fan of that music (what sort is that then?).

There's a review of the concert here as was tweeted by Valentina.

I used JS Pianos practice rooms to practice.


Well, IMO that is a very generous review.
Probably taking into account that she is coming from nowhere.
But, I don't think this concert will silence her critics as claimed by the reviewer.


Suspiciously generous...
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Originally Posted By: debrucey


I'm in that photo! Rear head shot, hence closer than you. Not sure I gave you permission smile Row 6, left, could see directly her hands. No blood after the Totentanz that I could see.

I also enjoyed the concert, although, erm, I'm not a big fan of that music (what sort is that then?).

There's a review of the concert here as was tweeted by Valentina.

I used JS Pianos practice rooms to practice.


Well, IMO that is a very generous review.
Probably taking into account that she is coming from nowhere.
But, I don't think this concert will silence her critics as claimed by the reviewer.


I agree that was a very generous review. On the other hand, there were only a couple of things that I didn't like. Nothing will silence her staunchest critics, probably ever.

I didn't like the Mozart and was lukewarm on the Beethoven. I thought everything with Liszt's name attached, aside from "La Campanella", was not only excellent but better than many of her more respected peers. Likewise with Rach (loved the G minor, tempo and all). I don't really have an opinion of the Scriabin.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 03:37 PM

I think, you are very generous too.

Starting with Erlkonig things really began to turn upside down for her. I bet she herself regretted that too.
And she couldn't recover afterwards.
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 04:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Lengthy banter and some kind of light comedy act.


For some reason, it reminded me of the "Rocky and Bullwinkle Show".
Posted by: Andromaque

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 04:56 PM

She was reviewed in only one of the mainstream outlets, the Telegraph. Reasonably good but not superlative.3 stars out of 5.
P.S> what's with the blue lights in the pictures? did they stay on?




Valentina Lisitsa, born in Ukraine but now living in America, is officially the web’s favourite classical pianist. Her YouTube site has had 43 million visitors, which is probably a thousand times more listeners than the great virtuosos of the past reached in their entire lifetimes.

It was clear that the promoters had tried hard to make this Albert Hall concert as close to the YouTube experience as possible. Two big screens carried close-up images of Lisitsa, and at every possible opportunity these were replaced by a publicity photo, which like all publicity photos was glamorous and anonymous.

They were almost comically inapt, as Lisitsa is neither glamorous nor anonymous. She came on to wild applause, cracked a joke about the Ukraine-England football match (at that moment under way) in an accent you could have cut with a knife, clearly nervous and anxious to get to the keyboard. Those were the only words we heard from her. She didn’t emote verbally about each piece à la James Rhodes, and when she played she didn’t strike flamboyant Lisztian poses like Lang Lang. Instead she sat hunched over the keyboard, smiling to herself as if oblivious to us and the live audience on her YouTube channel.

It soon became clear Lisitsa is a serious artist. She’d chosen a hugely taxing programme, book-ended with two Liszt showpieces.

She played these with urgent intensity and a feeling for their sudden moments of pathos, which lifted them out of their showpiece status. Her essential attribute is a fevered urgency, an almost desperate desire to suck the expressive marrow from a piece.


Joined to her iron-clad technique (Lisitsa is no wunderkind – she’s now 39, and has been practising hard since she was three), this often engendered a huge emotional charge, as in Liszt’s arrangement of Schubert’s Erlkonig. At the other end of the scale, the middle movement of Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata was beautifully remote and poised, as if made from porcelain.

Not everything worked so well. Chopin’s C minor Nocturne was one of several pieces whose subtlety was dissipated in febrility.

This showed Lisitsa’s strength is also her weakness, in the sense that she identifies too much with each passing moment. She needs to take a more balanced view, temper her passion with a little distance and irony. But that may not be so immediately gratifying, either for herself or her millions of YouTube fans.
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 04:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
I think, you are very generous too.


I thought you might. I wasn't familiar with the Scriabin and I skipped over the Chopin. Maybe I would have been able to find less generous words for that to even out my comments. smile
Posted by: Andromaque

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Lengthy banter and some kind of light comedy act.


For some reason, it reminded me of the "Rocky and Bullwinkle Show".


In laygirl language? Not googling it!

By the way I do not think that Lisitsa has staunch critics / enemies per se. She is a good pianist. I think that the hype could backfire though, but that should not stop her. It would be good to see her more confident and not so visibly eager to please. Just convey her interpretation and break through the canned emotions.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Andromaque

P.S> what's with the blue lights in the pictures? did they stay on?

Yes and no.

The blue lights changed colour at the start of each new piece, along with other background lighting.

I was sitting in the 'arena' or 'stalls' so at eye level with the piano legs and also the blue lights. Initially they were annoying but changes to softer yellow and orange hues meant I had forgotten about them by the end.
Posted by: Numerian

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 06:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
My impressions from the live youtube event:

Mrs. Lisitsa is not for the perfectionist classical music listener.
Even so that, she urged photographers to do their job during the Liszt Rhapsody, which was the first piece she played, because after that she said that the official concert would begin which would also be recorded for the Decca label. She was so comfortable playing along with the photographers shooting clicks.

But beginning with Mozart Fantasie, I felt that she was very tense, not to make a single mistake, and this continued with the Beethoven too.
I can speculate that she was advised to play more freely and not care too much during the intermission. Which IMO, showed some evindence in the Rachmaninoff Etude. But then again things didn't go as good as she would want.

And finally Totentanz and the finale of Campanelle took their share from all the above.

At the end of the concert I really felt a bit sad for her. Because I could read her disappointment from her face. This event perhaps was very important for her and she could have dreamed it to come out much better.




I wonder if she put too much pressure on herself: the huge seating at Royal Albert Hall, the live video streaming, and then the permanent Decca recording. Especially the recording, where everything has to be note perfect. Not a lot of established artists would be so comfortable with their skills and their emotions that they would take such risks. On top of all this, she is trying to prove she can maneuver her way into the top rank of concert artists by building an internet audience and foregoing the traditional competition/agent route.

Perhaps she should have gone with fewer blockbuster/knucklebuster pieces. Her entire program went from technically demanding to extremely demanding. She definitely can play very well and deserves to fill concert halls, but she might be better off asking less of herself so she can give more to the music.
Posted by: stores

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 06:11 PM

Is there a "replay" on Youtube, by chance?
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 06:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Numerian
Originally Posted By: Hakki

...But beginning with Mozart Fantasie, I felt that she was very tense, not to make a single mistake, and this continued with the Beethoven too.
I can speculate that she was advised to play more freely and not care too much during the intermission. Which IMO, showed some evindence in the Rachmaninoff Etude. But then again things didn't go as good as she would want.


I wonder if she put too much pressure on herself: the huge seating at Royal Albert Hall, the live video streaming, and then the permanent Decca recording. Especially the recording, where everything has to be note perfect. Not a lot of established artists would be so comfortable with their skills and their emotions that they would take such risks.
First of all, Hakki's comments about what Lisitsa was feeling or told during intermission or concern for not making a mistake are purely speculative. And plenty of pianists make live recordings. It's extremely common. Finally, mistakes can be corrected even on a live recording.
Posted by: wower

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/21/12 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: stores
Is there a "replay" on Youtube, by chance?


I think this is it from page 2 (below). I watched it anyways.

Posted by: Entheo

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 10:55 AM

i think she took many risks, both at the piano and in terms of the venue, non-conformance to the usual ground rules (audience included), streaming live on youtube AND being recorded for her first real label record. perhaps a few too many risks, but i thoroughly enjoyed the concert and applaud her for pressing the boundaries instead of shrinking to the usual safe, rigid and ensconced parameters of a classical piano concert.
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 11:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Lengthy banter and some kind of light comedy act.


For some reason, it reminded me of the "Rocky and Bullwinkle Show".


In laygirl language? Not googling it!

By the way I do not think that Lisitsa has staunch critics / enemies per se. She is a good pianist. I think that the hype could backfire though, but that should not stop her. It would be good to see her more confident and not so visibly eager to please. Just convey her interpretation and break through the canned emotions.



The accent is similar to Natasha, a Russian spy character on the show. (Boris and Natasha)

The hype will backfire with the old guard. I don't think she should change at all. The old must die so the new can live, it seems.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 12:08 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Numerian
Originally Posted By: Hakki

...But beginning with Mozart Fantasie, I felt that she was very tense, not to make a single mistake, and this continued with the Beethoven too.
I can speculate that she was advised to play more freely and not care too much during the intermission. Which IMO, showed some evindence in the Rachmaninoff Etude. But then again things didn't go as good as she would want.


I wonder if she put too much pressure on herself: the huge seating at Royal Albert Hall, the live video streaming, and then the permanent Decca recording. Especially the recording, where everything has to be note perfect. Not a lot of established artists would be so comfortable with their skills and their emotions that they would take such risks.
First of all, Hakki's comments about what Lisitsa was feeling or told during intermission or concern for not making a mistake are purely speculative. And plenty of pianists make live recordings. It's extremely common. Finally, mistakes can be corrected even on a live recording.


I don't think they will ever dare to correct mistakes on a live recording. Because it will ruin all her past Youtube reputation.
Posted by: Andromaque

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 12:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon


The hype will backfire with the old guard. I don't think she should change at all. The old must die so the new can live, it seems.


Ah but Plus ça change*..
Hype backfires on old and new, all the same

* The more things change, the more they are the same, or something like that.
Posted by: bennevis

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 01:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki


I don't think they will ever dare to correct mistakes on a live recording. Because it will ruin all her past Youtube reputation.


Don't bet on it: Horowitz's great comeback concert after his self-imposed 'retirement' was taped and released on LP with most of the glaring mistakes corrected. The original unedited concert was only released for the first time a few years ago - on CD. Most live recordings these days are patched at a later session (often immediately following the concert) - not just to correct mistakes but also to remove coughs, ringtones, inappropriate applause, boos grin etc.

However, I suspect Lisitsa's concert will be released unedited. She will prefer it that way, from what I've seen, and none of the wrong notes would be very obvious to the average punter for whom the music is unfamiliar (though I haven't managed to listen to the whole concert yet).
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 01:35 PM

She stayed behind till 3am to record the rest of the programme, so I imagine there'll be some fixer takes in there somewhere.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 02:06 PM

Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: Hakki


I don't think they will ever dare to correct mistakes on a live recording. Because it will ruin all her past Youtube reputation.


Don't bet on it: Horowitz's great comeback concert after his self-imposed 'retirement' was taped and released on LP with most of the glaring mistakes corrected. The original unedited concert was only released for the first time a few years ago - on CD. Most live recordings these days are patched at a later session (often immediately following the concert) - not just to correct mistakes but also to remove coughs, ringtones, inappropriate applause, boos grin etc.

However, I suspect Lisitsa's concert will be released unedited. She will prefer it that way, from what I've seen, and none of the wrong notes would be very obvious to the average punter for whom the music is unfamiliar (though I haven't managed to listen to the whole concert yet).


Now you made me suspicious.
And yet, I have a feeling that the WATCH AGAIN video on youtube has already been tweaked. Of course the obvious mistakes are still there, but the sound seems enhanced and more even. Some minor mistakes might have been corrected as well.

Even if she had played note perfect, I would still find the review she had tweeted very generous.
IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing. She is somewhere between an amateur and a true pianist.
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 03:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki

IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing. She is somewhere between an amateur and a true pianist.


Amateurs can't be true pianists? Your bar seems pretty high. I don't know how you can have very many true pianists in your world. 5 or 6 at least, I hope!
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 03:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Hakki

IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing. She is somewhere between an amateur and a true pianist.


Amateurs can't be true pianists? Your bar seems pretty high. I don't know how you can have very many true pianists in your world. 5 or 6 at least, I hope!


No, they can't. That is why they are amateurs. Otherwise they wouldn't be amateurs anymore.
Hope I am as clear as I can be.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Hakki

IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing. She is somewhere between an amateur and a true pianist.


Amateurs can't be true pianists? Your bar seems pretty high. I don't know how you can have very many true pianists in your world. 5 or 6 at least, I hope!


No, they can't. That is why they are amateurs. Otherwise they wouldn't be amateurs anymore.
Hope I am as clear as I can be.
You're an amateur, right?
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Hakki

IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing. She is somewhere between an amateur and a true pianist.


Amateurs can't be true pianists? Your bar seems pretty high. I don't know how you can have very many true pianists in your world. 5 or 6 at least, I hope!


No, they can't. That is why they are amateurs. Otherwise they wouldn't be amateurs anymore.
Hope I am as clear as I can be.


So true pianists get paid? Or are true pianists people who get paid and play the way you like? How good and how much money before you cross the (your) line? I consider you a good pianist despite your claim of amateur status. No offense but I think Lisitsa is better. I think we are working with different definitions here, making the conversation unnecessarily difficult.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Hakki

IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing. She is somewhere between an amateur and a true pianist.


Amateurs can't be true pianists? Your bar seems pretty high. I don't know how you can have very many true pianists in your world. 5 or 6 at least, I hope!


No, they can't. That is why they are amateurs. Otherwise they wouldn't be amateurs anymore.
Hope I am as clear as I can be.
You're an amateur, right?


Yes, so?
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 04:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Hakki

IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing. She is somewhere between an amateur and a true pianist.


Amateurs can't be true pianists? Your bar seems pretty high. I don't know how you can have very many true pianists in your world. 5 or 6 at least, I hope!


No, they can't. That is why they are amateurs. Otherwise they wouldn't be amateurs anymore.
Hope I am as clear as I can be.


So true pianists get paid? Or are true pianists people who get paid and play the way you like? How good and how much money before you cross the (your) line? I consider you a good pianist despite your claim of amateur status. No offense but I think Lisitsa is better. I think we are working with different definitions here, making the conversation unnecessarily difficult.


Let me put it this way.
For example, Pogorelich, carey, Vica are true pianists.
I am an amateur.
And Mrs.Lisitsa is somewhere in between.
Posted by: stores

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki

IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing. She is somewhere between an amateur and a true pianist.


You'll forgive my ignorance, I'm sure, but I've really no idea what it is that you mean here. I have an idea, but then...
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 05:37 PM

Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: Hakki

IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing. She is somewhere between an amateur and a true pianist.


You'll forgive my ignorance, I'm sure, but I've really no idea what it is that you mean here. I have an idea, but then...


Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pCQ1f520o4&feature=relmfu

Just skip to 2:04:00 and listen to the Chopin nocturne op.48 no.1

Then, I would like to know your idea.
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki

Let me put it this way.
For example, Pogorelich, carey, Vica are true pianists.
I am an amateur.
And Mrs.Lisitsa is somewhere in between.


Some forum members are true pianists and some aren't? Angelina is a student, I thought, and one whose recordings you have criticized in the past. Can't you define this a little clearer. Your example makes it more confusing. Carey and Vica have also posted very good recordings but...? Do you know more about them personally than an average forum member would? Do they all play for money? I do but I'm not as good as any of you.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 05:50 PM

The watch again video hasn't been edited, it's exactly what was broadcast live.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 05:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Hakki

Let me put it this way.
For example, Pogorelich, carey, Vica are true pianists.
I am an amateur.
And Mrs.Lisitsa is somewhere in between.


Some forum members are true pianists and some aren't? Angelina is a student, I thought, and one whose recordings you have criticized in the past. Can't you define this a little clearer. Your example makes it more confusing. Carey and Vica have also posted very good recordings but...? Do you know more about them personally than an average forum member would? Do they all play for money? I do but I'm not as good as any of you.


My definition has nothing to do with money.
It is more in the line of a "she sounds like an amateur" thing.
The moment I listen to any of our above members, I can clearly hear that they are not amateurs.
Hope this makes it more clear.
Posted by: Horowitzian

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 06:01 PM

To me, amateur just means you aren't doing it as your primary source of income. It doesn't mean that you are a less than aesthetically pleasing musician.


Mark_C is exactly what I would define as an amateur pianist. He's a head shrinker by day (sorry, I had to), and just happens to be serious about music too.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 06:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki

Even if she had played note perfect, I would still find the review she had tweeted very generous.
IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing.
How can you possibly know if she can listen to her playing? You may not like things about it, but those may be very conscious choices based on a great ability to listen to herself.

As far as her playing note perfectly, I'm very familiar with most of the pieces she played and didn't hear many mistakes. Certainly not enough for this to be an issue. Your comment implied that there was a problem in this area.
Posted by: dolce sfogato

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 06:13 PM

Missed notes are to be 'allowed' for in live performances, we are no machines, but I was rather surprised to watch her feet doing the legato instead of her fingers, throughout that is, esp. in the Chopin op.27/2 it was rather disturbing, as was her speed. The extra's in the op.9/2 are well known and very not-supposed-to-be-original, but for a change, why not?
Posted by: Cherub Rocker

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 06:16 PM

I was trying not to say anything but I don't think she can really hear what she's doing. When I listen to this performance I don't sense that she really knows what she's trying to say. Where's the phrasing? The singing tone?

It's so puzzling to me because I don't see anything in her technique that would hinder her musicianship, nothing wrong there.

I also don't believe true musicians are always paid more or get more recognition. It's much more than just about being a 'professional' or an 'amateur'. It has more to do with having something to say and knowing how to communicate it. In my definition Pogorelich, carey, and Vica are closer to what I would consider to be true 'professionals'. Why so much focus on money?
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Cherub Rocker

I also don't believe true musicians are always paid more or get more recognition. It's much more than just about being a 'professional' or an 'amateur'. It has more to do with having something to say and knowing how to communicate it. In my definition Pogorelich, carey, and Vica are closer to what I would consider to be true 'professionals'. Why so much focus on money?


Because that's what professionals do. They make money.

What Hakki is saying makes no sense to me. You may not like what she has to say, and that's valid, but she is definitely saying something with a technique I haven't heard from the forum members mentioned. (whose recordings I also enjoy, BTW!)
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Cherub Rocker
I was trying not to say anything but I don't think she can really hear what she's doing. When I listen to this performance I don't sense that she really knows what she's trying to say. Where's the phrasing? The singing tone?

It's so puzzling to me because I don't see anything in her technique that would hinder her musicianship, nothing wrong there.

I also don't believe true musicians are always paid more or get more recognition. It's much more than just about being a 'professional' or an 'amateur'. It has more to do with having something to say and knowing how to communicate it. In my definition Pogorelich, carey, and Vica are closer to what I would consider to be true 'professionals'. Why so much focus on money?


+1

I think Mrs.Lisitsa really needs a teacher.
It is never too late.
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 06:29 PM

Originally Posted By: dolce sfogato
but I was rather surprised to watch her feet doing the legato instead of her fingers,


Me too! I didn't have a problem with the speed until "La Campanella"
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 06:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Cherub Rocker

I also don't believe true musicians are always paid more or get more recognition. It's much more than just about being a 'professional' or an 'amateur'. It has more to do with having something to say and knowing how to communicate it. In my definition Pogorelich, carey, and Vica are closer to what I would consider to be true 'professionals'. Why so much focus on money?


Because that's what professionals do. They make money.

What Hakki is saying makes no sense to me. You may not like what she has to say, and that's valid, but she is definitely saying something with a technique I haven't heard from the forum members mentioned. (whose recordings I also enjoy, BTW!)


Well, you might be impressed by her technique. But to me it is just superficial playing and I am not that impressed.
She can get through some Rachmaninoff with it (lots of pedal etc.), still very unmusically though. But I am not convinced by her Liszt. I am in great doubt whether she knows what is going on in Erlkonig.
Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin are all played childishly.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
I think Mrs.Lisitsa really needs a teacher.
It is never too late.
What's the point of your long series of negative comments? It gives me the impression there is some personal animosity involved. If not, why not just say once you personally don't like her playing and be done with it?
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 06:53 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Hakki
I think Mrs.Lisitsa really needs a teacher.
It is never too late.
What's the point of your long series of negative comments? It gives me the impression there is some personal animosity involved. If not, why not just say once you personally don't like her playing and be done with it?


With all respect, do I have to answer this?
Posted by: lilylady

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Hakki
I think Mrs.Lisitsa really needs a teacher.
It is never too late.
What's the point of your long series of negative comments? It gives me the impression there is some personal animosity involved. If not, why not just say once you personally don't like her playing and be done with it?


"Like"

We get it. Your opinion that is, Hakki. And it is now getting tiring.
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki

Well, you might be impressed by her technique. But to me it is just superficial playing and I am not that impressed.


I think her technique is sufficient to at least earn the title "pianist". There are more respected names than hers whose musicality I find detestable.

Originally Posted By: Hakki

Mozart, Chopin are all played childishly.


I'm in full agreement here (especially with my edit, I didn't think the Beethoven was that bad), but despite his popularity among pianists, Chopin isn't played well by very many. (IMO)
Posted by: Andromaque

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 08:49 PM

I think that Hakki is being a bit too harsh I did skip to the Nocturne that Hakki pointed out and I found it to be utterly.. not to my taste. But perhaps a bit more seriously worse than that: it looses most of Chopin's spirit, lacks elegance and- what I would define as-musicality . With all due respects to Ms. Listsa.
I would be curious to hear what others thought of it.
Posted by: Cherub Rocker

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 09:09 PM

Her playing/technique also lacks a certain level of finesse and refinement that can be found in that of extremely high level pianists. She pushes her technique too far outside of her physical limitations and that makes her sound amateurish to be honest. For comparison:



Posted by: albynism

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/22/12 09:40 PM

I have to agree with Hakki that she seems to be disappointed right after the moonlight sonata before the intermission, the 3rd mov wasn't her best and she was tensed. but regained herself after the intermission. What constitutes a real pianist or not is debatable so I won't go into that. I think it takes a lot of courage to take all that risks and I have great respect for Ms Lisitsa and no doubt she will learn a lot from this experience.
Posted by: Entheo

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/23/12 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Hakki

IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing. She is somewhere between an amateur and a true pianist.


Amateurs can't be true pianists? Your bar seems pretty high. I don't know how you can have very many true pianists in your world. 5 or 6 at least, I hope!


No, they can't. That is why they are amateurs. Otherwise they wouldn't be amateurs anymore.
Hope I am as clear as I can be.


So true pianists get paid? Or are true pianists people who get paid and play the way you like? How good and how much money before you cross the (your) line? I consider you a good pianist despite your claim of amateur status. No offense but I think Lisitsa is better. I think we are working with different definitions here, making the conversation unnecessarily difficult.


yes, if the definition of a professional is "a person who is paid to undertake a specialized set of tasks and to complete them for a fee" then poor van gogh was an amateur as well since his brother was unable to sell any of his paintings during his lifetime. smirk
Posted by: Damon

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/23/12 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Entheo

yes, if the definition of a professional is "a person who is paid to undertake a specialized set of tasks and to complete them for a fee" then poor van gogh was an amateur as well since his brother was unable to sell any of his paintings during his lifetime. smirk


Yes, if Van Gogh received no money (or financial advantage) then he was an amateur painter. Expert ≠ professional.
Posted by: sophial

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/23/12 07:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Andromaque
I think that Hakki is being a bit too harsh I did skip to the Nocturne that Hakki pointed out and I found it to be utterly.. not to my taste. But perhaps a bit more seriously worse than that: it looses most of Chopin's spirit, lacks elegance and- what I would define as-musicality . With all due respects to Ms. Listsa.
I would be curious to hear what others thought of it.


I likewise was very unimpressed by the Chopin Nocturne. I can forgive mistakes but the clunkiness (sorry , but that is the best description I can come up with) of her interpretation was a real problem. It was not a performance I would have expected from someone commanding this kind of venue and audience. She might have been extremely nervous, but this looked more to me like a failure of artistry, not technique. I found her mouthings a bit offputting as well but again, would overlook any mannerisms if the musicianship was compelling. I kept thinking this was more like an Andrea Bocelli concert for the piano.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/24/12 01:47 AM

The scriabin was the highlight for me. I had no problem with the chopin.
Posted by: slipperykeys

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/24/12 02:36 PM

There is a chance she played too fast from nerves, there is the probablity she may have played wrong or missed notes, she wasn't perfect and it appears anything less than perfection was either going to disappoint many, or provide the tool they have been aching to grab and bash her with.

I think she is brilliant and I loved every second. Here is a professional concert pianist who has actually let me watch her practice, how fantastic and entertaining was that?

She played 2 and a half hours of, at times, fiendishly difficult pieces without any sheet music.

As I understand it you are saying there are three levels,

1 True concert.
2 Less good but managing somehow.
3 The rest.


I have seen some of your posts on youtube and have no intention of criticising your excellent playing, I wish I was as good. However, I believe Valentina Lisitsa is considerably more than 1 level above yourself.
Posted by: Quaver Pyjama

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/24/12 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: Cherub Rocker
I was trying not to say anything but I don't think she can really hear what she's doing. When I listen to this performance I don't sense that she really knows what she's trying to say. Where's the phrasing? The singing tone?

It's so puzzling to me because I don't see anything in her technique that would hinder her musicianship, nothing wrong there.

I also don't believe true musicians are always paid more or get more recognition. It's much more than just about being a 'professional' or an 'amateur'. It has more to do with having something to say and knowing how to communicate it. In my definition Pogorelich, carey, and Vica are closer to what I would consider to be true 'professionals'. Why so much focus on money?


+1

I think Mrs.Lisitsa really needs a teacher.
It is never too late.

+2
No teacher will solve things, if she doesn't feel the music.
I may sound stupid because I wrote the same thing weeks ago, but for me the artist must play a melody as if he were singing it. Some do it better than others, but I only connect if I feel the artist's voice, so to speak. For example, I may argue that Argerich is sometimes too rushed - nevertheless I do feel touched by her personality, she feels the music and thus she moves me.
I just use the example of singing the melody to separate artists and non-artists, in a simple way. There are other things that I could say about her that would be related to that lack of feeling.
Posted by: Quaver Pyjama

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/24/12 03:21 PM

Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
There is a chance she played too fast from nerves, there is the probablity she may have played wrong or missed notes, she wasn't perfect and it appears anything less than perfection was either going to disappoint many, or provide the tool they have been aching to grab and bash her with.

I think she is brilliant and I loved every second. Here is a professional concert pianist who has actually let me watch her practice, how fantastic and entertaining was that?

She played 2 and a half hours of, at times, fiendishly difficult pieces without any sheet music.

As I understand it you are saying there are three levels,

1 True concert.
2 Less good but managing somehow.
3 The rest.


I have seen some of your posts on youtube and have no intention of criticising your excellent playing, I wish I was as good. However, I believe Valentina Lisitsa is considerably more than 1 level above yourself.

No she isn't smile
(in my humble opinion of course)
She only has more technique.
Listen to some of his videos and i'm sure they touch you more than Lisitsa's playing!
Posted by: slipperykeys

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/24/12 03:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Quaver Pyjama
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
There is a chance she played too fast from nerves, there is the probablity she may have played wrong or missed notes, she wasn't perfect and it appears anything less than perfection was either going to disappoint many, or provide the tool they have been aching to grab and bash her with.

I think she is brilliant and I loved every second. Here is a professional concert pianist who has actually let me watch her practice, how fantastic and entertaining was that?

She played 2 and a half hours of, at times, fiendishly difficult pieces without any sheet music.

As I understand it you are saying there are three levels,

1 True concert.
2 Less good but managing somehow.
3 The rest.


I have seen some of your posts on youtube and have no intention of criticising your excellent playing, I wish I was as good. However, I believe Valentina Lisitsa is considerably more than 1 level above yourself.

No she isn't smile
(in my humble opinion of course)
She only has more technique.
Listen to some of his videos and i'm sure they touch you more than Lisitsa's playing!


Did you read what I wrote? I have listened, thank you. You have every right to your opinion, but please, don't tell me what I like.
PS, Love the use of the word, "only".
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/24/12 03:56 PM

Sad that nobody commented on her playing the Scriabin etude, op.65 no.1, and playing it very well! That piece is harder (and probably more physically impossible) than everything else on her programme (excluding probably the Totentanz and the Rachmaninoff Etude-Tableau).
Posted by: PianogrlNW

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/24/12 07:02 PM

I have been listening to her concert on YT and I quit after she played two heartless back to back Rach preludes. Ouch - it hurt to listen to her. Her playing underwhelms me. If her YT exposure gets people who are unfamiliar with classical piano to listen and learn, all the power to her.
Posted by: babama

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 04:23 PM

It has to be said that her youtube videos of pieces she played at the concert are quite a bit better than her concert performances.
Posted by: Andromaque

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 05:01 PM

So the link to the concert is no longer functional. I am assuming Decca inactivated it in view of the upcoming release on DVD?? But in looking for it, I came across this clip,; it left me incredulous, and I relaly do no tlack a sense of humor.
Title "Official Release PArty for the Royal ALbert Hall Recital", the self-deprecating clip features Ms. Lisistsa interviewing a ?cockroach (I think or a similarly disgusting creature). Said creature sits in her hand all the time, and is actually alive. I am cockroach-o-phobic and could not stomach the whole thing. But I find the clip to be kind of tasteless regardless of my bug disinclination.. what am I missing??
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 05:16 PM

I find most of the criticisms of Lisitsa's posted thus far to be both too subjective and too unspecific to be very convincing. I did not think all of the selections were played at a very high level although I thought some were very well played, but I also think comments like those below would not be made by a teacher at, for example, a master class because they are so nebulous.

"But beginning with Mozart Fantasie, I felt that she was very tense, not to make a single mistake, and this continued with the Beethoven too. I can speculate that she was advised to play more freely and not care too much during the intermission. Which IMO, showed some evidence in the Rachmaninoff."(Seems like pure speculation to me about her nervousness, reasons for her nervousness, and what she was told during intermisssion. I don't think a huge percentage of her fans expect her to play flawlessly and are attracted merely by her technique. There are plenty of other pianists with big technique.)

"if she doesn't feel the music" (IMO there are very few pianists who have devoted tens of thousands of hours to practice who don't feel the music.)

"she played two heartless back to back Rach preludes."

"i'm sure they touch you more than Lisitsa's playing"

"nevertheless I do feel touched by her personality, she feels the music and thus she moves me."(talking about a different pianist)

"I can forgive mistakes but the clunkiness (sorry , but that is the best description I can come up with) of her interpretation was a real problem."

"Her playing/technique also lacks a certain level of finesse and refinement that can be found in that of extremely high level pianists. She pushes her technique too far outside of her physical limitations and that makes her sound amateurish to be honest. For comparison:" (The poster then compares her playing to Perahia, who is one of the greatest pianists in the world.)

"IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing."(What's a "true pianist"? How can one possibly know what another pianist is hearing?)


Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 05:19 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I find most of the criticisms of Lisitsa's posted thus far to be both too subjective and too unspecific to be very unconvincing. I did not think all of the selections were played at a very high level although I thought some were very well played, but I also think comments like those below would not be made by a teacher at a master class because of their nature as explained in the previous sentence.

"But beginning with Mozart Fantasie, I felt that she was very tense, not to make a single mistake, and this continued with the Beethoven too. I can speculate that she was advised to play more freely and not care too much during the intermission. Which IMO, showed some evidence in the Rachmaninoff."(Seems like pure speculation to me.)

"if she doesn't feel the music"

"she played two heartless back to back Rach preludes."

"i'm sure they touch you more than Lisitsa's playing"

"nevertheless I do feel touched by her personality, she feels the music and thus she moves me."

"I can forgive mistakes but the clunkiness (sorry , but that is the best description I can come up with) of her interpretation was a real problem."

"Her playing/technique also lacks a certain level of finesse and refinement that can be found in that of extremely high level pianists. She pushes her technique too far outside of her physical limitations and that makes her sound amateurish to be honest. For comparison:" The poster then compares her playing to Perahia, who is one of the greatest pianists in the world.

"IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing." What's a "true pianist? How can one possibly know what another pianist is hearing?



I don't feel like ruining this thread with it again, but I've previously listed (relatively objective IMO), examples of her playing which I didn't like, and for some reason, nobody ever replied to them.
Posted by: Andromaque

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 05:46 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I find most of the criticisms of Lisitsa's posted thus far to be both too subjective and too unspecific to be very unconvincing. I did not think all of the selections were played at a very high level although I thought some were very well played, but I also think comments like those below would not be made by a teacher at, for example, a master class because they are so nebulous.




How would you explain, in more specific detail, the reason(s) why you thought that some selections were not "played at a very high level". What is the very high level standard you are referring to? extraordinary pianist such as Peraiah, Argerich, Richter etc? or concert level pianist but not necessarily a super star? What makes soemone 's playing "very high level"?
Posted by: daviel

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 05:50 PM

Tough crowd.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 05:54 PM

What's to get? She found a bug in a dressing room, and decided to interview it on camera 4tehlulz. Hilary Hahn did a similar video with a goldfish I seem to remember.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 05:54 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xZl1_NXKls

A betta sorry not a goldfish.
Posted by: Quaver Pyjama

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I find most of the criticisms of Lisitsa's posted thus far to be both too subjective and too unspecific to be very unconvincing. I did not think all of the selections were played at a very high level although I thought some were very well played, but I also think comments like those below would not be made by a teacher at, for example, a master class because they are so nebulous.

"But beginning with Mozart Fantasie, I felt that she was very tense, not to make a single mistake, and this continued with the Beethoven too. I can speculate that she was advised to play more freely and not care too much during the intermission. Which IMO, showed some evidence in the Rachmaninoff."(Seems like pure speculation to me about her nervousness, reasons for her nervousness, and what she was told during intermisssion. I don't think a huge percentage of her fans expect her to play flawlessly and are attracted merely by her technique. There are plenty of other pianists with big technique.)

"if she doesn't feel the music" (IMO there are very few pianists who have devoted tens of thousands of hours to practice who don't feel the music.)

"she played two heartless back to back Rach preludes."

"i'm sure they touch you more than Lisitsa's playing"

"nevertheless I do feel touched by her personality, she feels the music and thus she moves me."(talking about a different pianist)

"I can forgive mistakes but the clunkiness (sorry , but that is the best description I can come up with) of her interpretation was a real problem."

"Her playing/technique also lacks a certain level of finesse and refinement that can be found in that of extremely high level pianists. She pushes her technique too far outside of her physical limitations and that makes her sound amateurish to be honest. For comparison:" (The poster then compares her playing to Perahia, who is one of the greatest pianists in the world.)

"IMO, she is not a true pianist/musician. She really can't listen to what she is playing."(What's a "true pianist"? How can one possibly know what another pianist is hearing?)



A true musician brings tears to my face, they communicate the most intense and sublime emotions of a certain piece. I feel a greater connection to the humankind after listening to an artist performing. And that simply doesn't happen when I listen to Lisitsa - I don't say she is devoid of all emotions but when I close my eyes, I feel very little. I can't provide objective information, but my personal opinion is that she is extremelly inferior, emotionally speaking, to most artists out there, she fails to comunicate to my heart.
This may sound like stupid sissy talk but it's the only way I can discuss this subject wink
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 07:03 PM

Never mind all the people at her recital whose hearts were touched. An artist must communicate specifically to Quaver Pyjama's heart to be a true artist.
Posted by: Andromaque

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 07:59 PM

Originally Posted By: debrucey
What's to get? She found a bug in a dressing room, and decided to interview it on camera 4tehlulz. Hilary Hahn did a similar video with a goldfish I seem to remember.


I see. So it is not only silly, it is also not so 'creative' but rather "influenced". smile
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 08:07 PM

All creation is influenced, and you say silly like it's a bad thing.
I have no idea whether Lisitsa has seen the aforementioned video Hahn posted (which I'm sure wasn't the first example of this joke).
Posted by: Quaver Pyjama

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/25/12 08:45 PM

Originally Posted By: debrucey
Never mind all the people at her recital whose hearts were touched. An artist must communicate specifically to Quaver Pyjama's heart to be a true artist.

Lol, I laughed at this one grin
I know I'm annoying when I post annonymously on the internet, but in real life i'm a nicer person - I don't nag people with my artistic purism.
(well, sometimes I nag my colleagues but it's rare! grin)
Posted by: stores

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/26/12 04:47 AM

Originally Posted By: debrucey
All creation is influenced...


Wrong.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/26/12 05:41 AM

Example?
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 06/26/12 05:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Quaver Pyjama
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Never mind all the people at her recital whose hearts were touched. An artist must communicate specifically to Quaver Pyjama's heart to be a true artist.

Lol, I laughed at this one grin
I know I'm annoying when I post annonymously on the internet, but in real life i'm a nicer person - I don't nag people with my artistic purism.
(well, sometimes I nag my colleagues but it's rare! grin)


I believe you smile
Posted by: Works1

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 07/17/12 03:11 PM

Her performance of Liszt's transcription of Schubert's Ave Maria was magnificant IMO.
Posted by: pv88

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 02/11/13 01:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Works1
Her performance of Liszt's transcription of Schubert's Ave Maria was magnificent IMO.


This was obviously top-notch playing technically, although I believe she also gets right to the heart of the matter as for projecting the emotions.

As for all who have been critical of Lisitsa's playing I challenge you to make a better recording!

So, are there any takers?*

*Extra note:

I am excluding myself, as it is currently not something I wish to struggle with since I am contending with other back tension issues while at the piano/computer and some additional hand/wrist strain at this time.

Also, I have to commend any pianist (professional, or, otherwise) that can continue to play pieces at a very high level of difficulty without injury to themselves, as Valentina Lisitsa has demonstrated this can be done.
Posted by: Pogorelich.

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 02/11/13 09:27 AM

...
Posted by: jdhampton924

Re: Valentina Lisitsa at Royal Albert Hall - 02/11/13 10:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
...


Kind of how I feel