Is diet underestimated

I am starting to finally realize that diet is essential to learning this instrument. I am wondering if there are others out there who have found out that the cornerstone to playing well is through nutrition and exercise. Foods that strengthen proprioception, motor skills, processing and memory will give a student or professional an added advantage over others.

Proprioception. I learned a new word today!

Now I have to mess with somebody's head by using it ...

I think good health improves virtually every aspect of life but I doubt there is a diet that is specifically beneficial to piano playing but wouldn't also be just as beneficial for everything else .

I can't concentrate or be alert/comfortable enough to practice many hours a day without eating properly. You don't have to be a complete health nut, just eat generally nutritious food at regular times each day and go for a walk from time to time.

"Underestimated" by whom? I have observed over several years that there is a continuous trend in society in general towards being more conscientious about maintaining a well-balanced diet along with a sensible exercise/activity program.

I strongly doubt, however, that there is any diet that would be considered "musician-specific." As in all things, common sense and moderation should be the guiding factors in all activities and life-style choices. [1]

[1]

Regards,

The thing is, eating well for a healthy lifestyle and eating to strengthen the mind to make playing the piano easier are not always a match. For instance,
meal plan 1:
Breakfast: whole wheat bread with peanut butter, glass of milk, orange.
Lunch: yogurt with banana and mango, peppermint tea
snack: raisins, nut and seed mix
Dinner: Pork chop, steamed cauliflower, baked potatoes, glass of red wine; pumpkin pie.
Extra supplement. daily vitamin

Meal plan 2:
Breakfast: Oatmeal with blueberries, cinnamon , vanilla and honey; Decaf coffee.
Lunch: Omega 3 egg sandwich with whole wheat bread,carrots and spinach; green tea.
snack: walnuts, sunflower seeds with fresh strawberries; glass of almond milk.
Dinner: salmon with almonds, broccoli, whole grain brown rice; Jasmine tea with 80% dark chocolate.
Extras: b complex vitamin(25mg), zinc supplement,omega 3 supplement, cranberry supplement, vitamin D. Sage leaf before bed.

Meal plan 3:
Breakfast: Honeynut cherrios with milk and banana; two coffees
Lunch: kraft dinner , diet soda
snack: cookies,chocolate raisins, sport drink
Dinner: T-bone steak , mashed potatoes, and canned cream corn; ice cream , 2 glasses white wine.

So there's three meal plans. The first one is healthy and will help a bit, but there are no real mind building foods in the list. The second meal plan if full of mind strengthening foods, the brains supper foods. I make sure I eat the foods in Meal plan two, 2-4 times a week, and I really notice a huge difference in my playing, HUGE!!!. Meal plan three, in my own personal experience, has created learning and memory problems and helped create injuries and pain while playing. Now, playing is pain and injury free, and learning is easy.
Google the foods in meal plan three along with tag words: research,prevention, university, cancer, alzheimer's, dementia, memory,diabetes. You will notice a positive pattern.
Then google the foods in meal plan three along with the words sugar, processed food, alcohol and hearing loss to the tag list and you will find they are linked to the cause of the above mention diseases.

Foods that help with ________

motor skill and proprioception sense: strawberries, cranberries
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkUir-ne7tg

Stage fright and perspiration:
sage, raw garlic
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030901091846.htm
http://www.prevention.com/term/new-herb-ease-anxiety
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-best-tips-for-controlling-cortisol.htm

memory: salmon, walnuts, strawberries
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110327191040.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071106122843.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120307145825.htm
Foods that slow us down(mentally), improve sight reading, help focus:
cranberries, strawberries; Flaxseed and almond milk drink.

Prevent hearing loss:
carrots,zinc supplement, Ginkgo Biloba

Love of playing: 80% dark Chocolate

Muscle joint strength: Brazil nuts(one a day is all you need), raw garlic, spinach, zinc, strawberries(yah, strawberries are a musicians super food), vitamin D.


Fewer mistakes: strawberries, exercise, cranberries, ginkgo

thats it
Disclaimer, I am a guy on the internet, not your Dr. . Do some research into the foods above -pro's and cons before taking them.Don't overdose.

haha same for me!

Is it possible to overdose on dark chocolate ...

Will this diet make my playing more organic?

I'm not a nutritionist, but based on my understanding of what data I've read along these lines, I think you're dramatically overstating the scientific evidence for the impact that particular food items have on very specific and often difficult to test physiologic and psychological processes. That being said, your ideal meal is certainly quite healthy, and if you feel that it makes you play much better, then more power to you

A continuous trend in society in general certainly, but I think it's fair to say that the high stress lifestyle of a musician can often, if one is not careful, lead to the neglect of one's personal health.

Along with a reasonable diet, the realization may largely be in the perception.

Regards,

If I ate that much food I'd wouldn't fit through a doorway! Eating well is simple: eat fresh, eat as many raw fruits and vegetables as you can, eat colorfully, avoid refined and processed foods, cook from scratch. And in my case, don't exceed 1200 calories a day to maintain weight. (Yeah, really.)

Yikes. 2000 a day is the recommended average for women.

Exactly. Also I don't see why brain health is the key area of health for piano playing in the sense that it is more important than any other area of health. Finally, brain power is so basic for so many endeavors that even if brain health were the most critical area that hardly makes the suggested diet a "piano" diet.

There is a lot of quackery in this arena.

A dietician is a protected vocation, a nutritionist is not.

... which reminds me of this ...

Drink WATER!

Your body is 70% water. So why do people drink coffee, coke, tea, specialty coffees, energy drinks, and they never drink water. So no vitamins will get to your body without water.

Also, 8 glasses a day will give you a better good nights sleep too. And if you drink water, you will sleep at night!

Water. Pure and "simple" . . .

That "myth" about drinking eight glasses of water a day has long since been debunked!

As long as we're debunking things, I've switched to a low carb\high fat diet and my blood chemistry has improved. I eat as much meat, fish, or chicken as I want cooked in lots of butter or oil ... and my blood chemistry is stellar.

We were given a lot of bad nutritional information back in the 1970's with the lipid hypothesis of coronary heart disease.

My breakfast today was sliced chicken breast with blue cheese and zucchini baked in lots of butter. (I should add that by following this low carb\high fat diet I've managed to lose about 25 pounds\11 kg ... and I'm never hungry.)

Drink when you're thirsty your body will let you know.

Geesh Bruce!
You probably think that a person doesn't need OXYGEN either!!!

Anyways, I read that as you get older your body looses its' desire for water, and it needs it but doesn't signal you until it's too late.

Drinking water has so many benefits. But do whatever you like, it's your body and I think dry up their brains for lack of water.

I drink way more than 8 glasses a day. I feel and sleep much better.

No need to comment . . . Bruce!

Coffee, coke, tea and energy drinks all contain quite a lot of water.

I suppose my mid-20s diet of reefer, alcohol, acid and tobacco is out the window then!

I certainly FELT more creative then. :-)

Forrest

Yeah. That's why I can only eat 1200 calories a day; I'm really a duck.

You're on to something there Dave, but I would be cutting back on the butter. Butter, and cooking in butter is high in Trans-fats. You don't want those. Blood chemistry testing will not reveal this. Transfats are linked to all sorts of damaging processes in the body. You should stick with the more robust oils - especially olive oil. Even then, you should keep cooking times down to a minimum because any oil will start to produce transfats if it's boiling for long enough.

I'm assuming that's mostly in insect and pellet form?

I also use lots of olive oil ... and I keep the cooking times and temperature to a minimum whether it's butter or olive oil.

(As long as we're off topic here ... if anyone's interested, do a YouTube search for the Oiling of America ... for just one talk to view. )

My diet consists mainly on fat, meat and carb (spagheti, pizzas and the such). Oh... and lots of sugar too.

It's not recomended to anyone who actually wants to lose weight or at least keep his figure in a shape that doesn't resemble the pirelli man

If I went to Africa and saw this . . . I'd want my money back!

I generally eat very healthy.

Diane this is the promotional poster of McDonalds, right?

I can agree with this. The last few weeks have been absurdly busy for me, and as a result I've been eating fast food more and I can certainly notice a difference in my energy levels and in my ability to hear as I'm playing. I need to get back onto being more disciplined there.

Aren't we all making a mountain out of a molehill?

Diet isn't rocket science - it's not even quantum mechanics, or string theory.

It's just eating what homo sapiens were designed (by your favorite deity, or by evolution, depending on your predilection...) to eat - i.e. 'real' food that's real and looks real, not something churned out by a huge machine (or several machines) which bears no resemblance to what it was fed with.

Do any other animals eat processed junk (other than our pets, and what we choose to feed them with)?

+1

Not really piano related, but just a point of information here. Butter has a very small amount of naturally occurring trans fat, but the really high amounts are in artificially processed fats like margarine and other foods with hydrogenated oils.

Some manufacturers have tried to avoid trans-fats by replacing the disgusting hydrogenated stuff with palm oil (especially in USA, where everything has to be labeled), but don't forget palm oil is saturated and works the same way as lard on your blood vessels.....

The thing is, eating well for a healthy lifestyle and eating to strengthen the mind to make playing the piano easier are not always a match. For instance,
meal plan 1:
Breakfast: whole wheat bread with peanut butter, glass of milk, orange.
Lunch: yogurt with banana and mango, peppermint tea
snack: raisins, nut and seed mix
Dinner: Pork chop, steamed cauliflower, baked potatoes, glass of red wine; pumpkin pie.
Extra supplement. daily vitamin

Meal plan 2:
Breakfast: Oatmeal with blueberries, cinnamon , vanilla and honey; Decaf coffee.
Lunch: Omega 3 egg sandwich with whole wheat bread,carrots and spinach; green tea.
snack: walnuts, sunflower seeds with fresh strawberries; glass of almond milk.
Dinner: salmon with almonds, broccoli, whole grain brown rice; Jasmine tea with 80% dark chocolate.
Extras: b complex vitamin(25mg), zinc supplement,omega 3 supplement, cranberry supplement, vitamin D. Sage leaf before bed.

Meal plan 3:
Breakfast: Honeynut cherrios with milk and banana; two coffees
Lunch: kraft dinner , diet soda
snack: cookies,chocolate raisins, sport drink
Dinner: T-bone steak , mashed potatoes, and canned cream corn; ice cream , 2 glasses white wine.

So there's three meal plans. The first one is healthy and will help a bit, but there are no real mind building foods in the list. The second meal plan if full of mind strengthening foods, the brains supper foods. I make sure I eat the foods in Meal plan two, 2-4 times a week, and I really notice a huge difference in my playing, HUGE!!!. Meal plan three, in my own personal experience, has created learning and memory problems and helped create injuries and pain while playing. Now, playing is pain and injury free, and learning is easy.
Google the foods in meal plan three along with tag words: research,prevention, university, cancer, alzheimer's, dementia, memory,diabetes. You will notice a positive pattern.
Then google the foods in meal plan three along with the words sugar, processed food, alcohol and hearing loss to the tag list and you will find they are linked to the cause of the above mention diseases.

Foods that help with ________

motor skill and proprioception sense: strawberries, cranberries
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkUir-ne7tg

Stage fright and perspiration:
sage, raw garlic
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030901091846.htm
http://www.prevention.com/term/new-herb-ease-anxiety
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-best-tips-for-controlling-cortisol.htm

memory: salmon, walnuts, strawberries
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110327191040.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071106122843.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120307145825.htm
http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/hea...O6sJ/story.html


Foods that slow us down(mentally), improve sight reading, help focus:
cranberries, strawberries; Flaxseed and almond milk drink.

Prevent hearing loss:
carrots,zinc supplement, Ginkgo Biloba
http://american-hearing.org/disorders/tinnitus/

Love of playing: 80% dark Chocolate

Muscle joint strength: Brazil nuts(one a day is all you need), raw garlic, spinach, zinc, strawberries(yah, strawberries are a musicians super food), vitamin D.


Fewer mistakes: strawberries, exercise, cranberries, ginkgo

thats it
Disclaimer, I am a guy on the internet, not your Dr. . Do some research into the foods above -pro's and cons before taking them.Don't overdose.


I added some links

I would like to point out that walnuts are high in good fat, not like butter
You can google that

Drinking water only when thirsty may be a bad idea for a musicians. A lot of musicians also sing a bit, the vocal chords require water, or they will get damaged. Drinking 6-8 glasses of FLUIDS is still recommend by some. Drinking 8 glasses of water + fluids a day may be overdoing it.

a little off-topic, but I was thinking years ago to take up martial arts.. maybe kung-fu? the precision and fine motor movements associated with it would seem to stimulate the area of the brain that is responsible for coordination..the martial arts and piano playing would seem to complement each other. just an idea though..

no input on diet, except moderation and balance.

Well, I love McDonald's "sausage Mcmuff & egg". and I have a "Burger King Whooper every Tuesday. It's just "fun" food . . . but my body has a mind of it's own!!! Oh yes it does. It's like a child that wants what it wants and I'm discovering it's selfish and doesn't have "my" interests at heart.

Just like practicing the piano takes discipline, so does my mind have to discipline my "crying baby body needs"

My body wants "chocolate" 24/7, it wants ice cream every day, cheese cake, chips, etc. it doesn't want to get on the treadmill, and it doesn't want to push weights. But . . . I force it to do things and as I said, it's a "fight" to the finish. I have my own personal reasons for this.

Anyways, treats are treats. Not everyday luxuries. I have to stop and think what is best for my body not the other way around.

I know there are a lot of Naysayers, but do you have any experience or research that disclaims the above.

It is clear to me that musicians really, really underestimate diet. Diet and exercise helps to prevent injury and hearing loss; improves memory, processing, proprioception sense and recall. This is a fact!!! Get your head out of the piano; do some research.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ITy5ZuhB4

DAVE_250, the burden of proof is not for us to disclaim anything you state. The burden of proof is on you.

I could build a case that unicorns exist and are beneficial to my piano playing. I wouldn't ask you to disprove the existence of unicorns or their effect on my playing; the burden of proof would lie with me.

OMG, I suddenly remembered the Nanna's apple pies (already praised in another thread).

It is also responsible for mass deforestation and the destruction of endangered species natural habitats.

I have a friend who does kung fu and he claims it has also improved his practice. It's probably a mental discipline thing.

That is a point I alluded to earlier in this thread. What many fail to take into account, but certainly backed up by recent recommendations by dieticians, is that those of us who regularly eat fresh vegetables and fresh fruit - particularly the latter - are getting a larger quantity of beneficial liquids than we might originally think. Many vegetables are more than 50% water and some fruits are 60% to 70% water.

To the water, milk and (only) two cups of coffee per day that I drink, and to the cantaloupe, grapes, apples, bananas and pineapple that I eat daily (add or substitute the many fresh fruits that are available locally in the summer), if I were to add as well eight glasses of water, I'd never be able to be ten minutes from the nearest bathroom.

If one were to eat a wholesome diet for physical well-being and good health and then try to add all the supplementary foods that are reputed to increase mental capacity and acuity, I fear that the list would be so long that it would lead to confusion and/or over-kill.

As for MacDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, etc., etc., they would have been out of business years ago if they depended on the likes of me. I haven't been in one of them for decades nor do I plan to in the near future. Their food is the closest to tasty poison that I can think of.

Regards,

'Tasty' is debatable, 'poison' is not debatable. The book Fast Food Nation: The Dark Side of the All-American Meal by Eric Schlosser has some interesting -and most appetizing!- commentary on McDonald's, et al.

That said, the coffee at McDonald's (both in the US & UK) is rather good, if without the classier atmosphere of a Starbucks.

I was mainly talking about what happens when you cook oils to a high heat for a period of time. They change properties quite dramatically. That's why frying oil should be changed regularly. Butter heated up for 15-20 minutes is transfat city. But most fats will do this. Olive oil is slower to react so if you cook reasonably quickly, the transfats are negilible.

Well, there's no question that the Diet of Augsburg led to some really good church music.

I remember hearing somewhere that Van Cliburn was very selective about what he would eat before performing (white potatoes was one of the things to avoid).
Along with that, I have read before (maybe on this site?) that simple carbs are known to derail accuracy.

I agree that diet does affect how I play, but maybe not down to the specific foods, more just on a broad scale. I know if I eat poorly, I feel bad. If I feel bad, I generally am too lethargic to practice efficiently. If I am not practicing well...my playing suffers.

Well my lips are pure "poison" then cause I enjoy a Whopper at Burger King now and again! Poison Ivy is one of my favourite villians anyway. So I'm in good company. No worries of running into Bruce at a McDonalds or Burger King any time soon!

But it took about a hundred years for the true glories of Lutheran Church music to really kick in. The Thirty Years' War kept things musically in abeyance, but what a blossoming after its conclusion in 1648!

There were many great North German composers active prior to Bach's birth in 1685, not just Pachelbel, though IMO some of his organ works are absolutely delightful. And we all know about Bach's admiration for Buxtehude.

On a recent discussion on Dr.Oz TV show, the vastly entertaining worldly-wise doc interviewed a sassy bright thing (doctorate et al) who presented a theory (with proof) that body weight (and waist measurement amongst others)
is DIRECTLY related (and proportional) to HEALTH.

Fatties beware! ... also women prefer chocolates to sex!

I must be crazy to have bought her that box of chocolates.

Well that's convinced me.

If Dr. Oz lived in the US around 1900 he would have had no heart attack patients to work on. As long as people eat foods loaded with sugar, heart surgeons will always be in business.

(Fat is actually good for you ... but that's another long post.)

Whaaat...you've clearly got something wrong. It's Whopper Wednesday, not Tuesday...

Yes, well funny you should ask because every Tuesday when I'm enjoying my Whooper in Burger King, or is that my "Poison Whopper" in Burger King to Bruce, I'm thinking, Why am I here Tuesday instead of Whooper Wednesday?" Then I just forget the question and enjoy my burger.

Anyways, Tuesday became a "habit". That's the "short version" of how I got started going on TUESDAYS But if you want the "long version" I'll give it to you. Just ask.

I think it's kind of ironic that the "Bruce" in Batman doesn't get along with "Poison Ivy". Kind of a parallism between the "Bruce" here on pianoworld and I never saw eye to eye for some reason. And again, ...no need to comment . . . Bruce!

Diane, I used to have strong sugar cravings after a meal. I worked hard at cutting a lot of sugar out of my diet, but then I had these post meal sugar cravings that wouldn't stop. Today it's a different story, the sugar cravings are gone. I was doing some research on male testosterone levels, and this weightlifter's health article said to eat raw garlic to increase testosterone. I don't want to get man boobs when I get older, and I will try anything that's safe. So the next morning I ate two cloves of chopped raw garlic with a large glass of water before breakfast. That evening for the first time I had no sugar cravings after a meal or during the day, and it wasn't until three days later that I had a sugar craving. I don't know why it works , but it worked for me. If raw garlic sounds disgusting to eat alone, garlic pills may work.

Stawberries may also stave off sugar cravings.


"Strawberries contain substantial amounts of substances called ellagitannins and anthocyanins, which may help treat the hyperglycemia and high blood pressure associated with type 2 diabetes. Research published in the journals "Biofactors" and the "Journal of Medicinal Food" suggest that these substances can help reduce your blood sugar levels after you eat a starch-rich meal. They may also help break down the starches you eat. According to an article in "Nutrition Journal," these substances also have antioxidant properties that lowered cholesterol and risk of metabolic syndrome in a group of women. The National Diabetes Education Program recommends eating strawberries as part of a plan to increase fruits and vegetables and lower your weight. Weight control is an important part of managing diabetes; it can also help resolve pre-diabetes."



Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/351095-can-diabetics-eat-strawberries/#ixzz2EZAip2sL

Ha, as a fat guy, I can agree diet is very important, there are possible troubles if you become over weight to wrists and such, but also as mentioned eating unhealthy foods can hamper learning somewhat.

i don't think you're promoting very healthy diet. for some wheat or gluten rich foods are just as bad as sugar and red meat, and could cause inflammation and join pain, which i know first hand. the foods made of whole grain wheat flour are supposed to be 'healthy' according to FDA, but it is actually not true to many people.

milk isn't necessary to be healthy for some either especially non-organic one which is full of growth hormone and antibiotics which would make some sick or cause cancer. in fact, plant based milk such as almond would be a much better choice.

basically, be careful about what you eat, because it will either make you feel good or make you sick.

Well, I don't think there are any bad foods, just best and better choices.

But, the HUGE problem is that when someone is over-weight, it's really funny to me that they complain that their "knees" always hurt. I want to scream it's not their knees that's the problem, it's all the WEIGHT on their knees. Seems obvious to me but not to them!!! I try to hold my tongue . . . most of the time.

So weight just makes one lazy and not want to "do" things. Strips one of energy!

I suggest "Weight Watchers" if someone needs help. When you get the weight off, start an exercise program, or both. There are just too many health risks because one is so over weight that life becomes "NOT FUN" & one is just LAZY! ...with bad "knees"!!

This thread is starting to get a bit preachy...

Do men want a FAT woman in lingerie?
Well then we women DONT want a FAT man in a suit!



Now, THAT'S preaching! Just sayin' . . .

What a horrible thing to say. Take your body fascism elsewhere.

Well to add onto what's been said about weight, the more gradually you lose it, the more likely you are to keep it off permanently...

Your attitude is cruel, smug and ignorant.

1. There are many foods that are bad for you - for example: transfats, refined sugar, etc.

2. Complaints about bad knees are not "funny". Bad knees are not always associated with weight and even if they are, it's not amusing.

3. Being overweight makes one lazy? What is your source for this claim? I can assure you that most overweight people eat far less than you do and they still gain weight - with exercise. Often the problem is metabolic and inherited. Assuming all overweight people are lazy is like assuming all tall people have better eyesight.

4. I am overweight. If I follow Weight Watchers strictly I gain weight. I can maintain my weight if I eat not more than 1500 calories a day while going to the gym for a hard workout 3 to 4 times a week. To lose weight I must eat less than 1000 calories a day and I'm miserable. Yes, I saw the doctor. He told me "That's the way it is for some people. Live with it." Could you manage on 1000 calories a day, teaching full time, on your feet all day, raising children and keeping house?

5. Do you truly believe life is not fun for overweight people and they are all just lazy?

Your attitude is appalling. Shame on you.

I think diet is underestimated and piano players should think of themselves in similar terms to an athlete. For example most people don’t eat enough protein so the muscles in your hands etc will develop slower and take longer to recover. Magnesium is one of the most important chemicals for muscle contractions. When you consider the amount work the muscles in your fingers do, taking a supplement should be considered. Think of it this way if you were trying to get extremely fit which is what your asking your hands to do would your current diet be adequate. I starting taking a protein supplement six months ago and there is no question it has made a big difference.

Hi Deborah, I totally know what you mean-- that's just the way for some people. NYT personal finance expert and Stanford grad Ramit Sethi said that he looked like a supermodel in highschool-- a female supermodel.

However, have you considered joining a gym? Personal trainers make it their business to help people all day, and you'll probably find success with them. It's about balancing your intake (and eating healthy), with exercise too.

I'm a big fan of exercise-- dance, yoga, swimming, running, etc. (not so much soccer). Getting your heartrate up gives you a boost of endorphins and makes you feel good. If you're looking for ideas, check out FitSugar.

Even a brisk walk or a stretch will benefit your muscles.

It's not really about having time, it's about finding time. If none of us consciously made time for our health, then we'd be seriously sick.

Are you eating the right foods? I'm by no means a dietician, but I know that to barely survive, the average human must eat at least 1000 calories a day.

I don't count my calories, but I'm eating much more than 1000 calories a day and I'm able to maintain a healthy weight and lifestyle.

Grace, you are not hearing me. I DO exercise. I belong to a gym - 3 to 4 times a week, hard workouts. I know how to work out and I know what good nutrition is, (I'm a retired chirorpractor). I eat only the right foods, (nothing refined, no artificial sweeetners, no prepared foods, tiny amounts of whole grains, lean meats, lots of water, veggies, fruit = 1000 calories a day and I count them). I just have the metabolism from h... as did my mother, and I have to live with it. I don't need fixing. Diane needs fixing.

Ahh that sounds very unlikely, since you're losing salts and whatnot when you sweat. Also, the muscle that you build will help you burn calories even when you're resting.

Even if you have a very bad metabolism naturally, you can speed it up by building muscle. Are you doing cardio with strength training?

Muscle burns more calories than fat.

I'm not saying that you need fixing, I had merely asked if you have considered a change in your lifestyle.

I'm a dancer and former gymnast so I have had my share of pains and injuries.

You aren't listening. Forgive me, I'm a little testy. It's almost 6 pm and I've had only 380 calories so far today...and I went for a mile walk this morning at 4:30 before work.

Deborah,

I don't think you're going to get anywhere here. Put down the computer and practice instead!

Congrats on your son's engagement btw.



-Jason

+1

I agree with you, Deborah.

Cathy

Deborah, congratulations on your son's engagement!

I am hearing what you're saying, but there are ways you can counter genetics. Genetics is only part of it, and I'm just trying to help.

Doctors aren't gods-- in the 18th century, doctors put leeches on people to 'heal' them. A lot of the medical field today is still a mystery, and a lot of it is just theory.

Your help is unwanted. Why do some people find it so hard to believe an overweight person can be happy?

Thank you Jason! and I will go practice!

Anyone can be happy as long as they have the right mindset.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be happier.

Joke Fingers, thank's for your post. It seems that musician's either don't talk about diet, don't consider it essential for better performance or they don't teach it to their students. In sport forums and magazines diet is a huge priority. Coaches and trainers are fully aware of benefits of diet, and educate their athletes.
What's even more scary is that more than 2/3 of serious musicians have had some kind of injury related playing an instrument or play in pain.
NOT SORRY TO SOUND PREACHY!!! Teachers need to start educating their students about poor food choices that will make them prone to injuries and interfere with their performances.

Side note - this is really not about being over weight, but more about preventing injury and enhancing performance.



@signa
A note on wheat
http://sph-publications.berkeley.edu/bho/2012/07/wheatophobia-wellness-letter/

Milk is high in estrogen. A symptom of drinking too much milk or milk products is adult acne. Oh Yah, and man boobs.


Refine Sugar is really bad for us in so many ways. When we practice a new skill ,let's say a new scale. After practicing this for fifteen min. or so, we stop, but our brain doesn't. Our mind takes 4-6 our to process new motor skills . If a musician has blood sugar crashes during this processing, than the mind won't learn it. Blood sugar crashes starve the brain.

Of course not, but the problem I have is with your assumption that happier = thinner.

Nope, healthier = happier. It's not an assumption; it's scientifically proven.

Not necessarily. And it's still not nice continue offering patronising advice where it's not wanted.

Well you're assuming that thinner = healthier, which again, isn't true.

First of all, a healthy person is generally happier than an unhealthy person. I'm not going to bother looking up the research for you.

Second, how is my advice patronising? It's not intended to be patronising.



My goodness! There's a lot of assuming going on.

I have never stated these things.

No, I'm saying that "overweight does not equal healthier than normal weight".

I am saying that "healthier = happier in general".

End of what I am saying.

I was going to write something here ... started and stopped twice ...


forget it

It depends on the methods by which they become healthier. If they are constantly fighting against their body's natural tendencies, whilst denying themselves all sorts of foods that they enjoy, filling every spare minute of their day with exercise and at the same time being told by people who find it easy that they just aren't trying hard enough, that doesn't sound like a recipe for happiness to me. I'd rather be overweight.

To say that healthier people are happier generally is not the same as saying that becoming healthier will make you happier, because this assumption is based on two extremes and ignores the complexities of the process of getting from one to the other.

As is often the case, when the touchy subject of weight and diets crop up, misconceptions and even insults get hurled around....

I wasn't going to post any more here, but after reading some of the posts, I felt obliged to put my scientific hat on and correct some of the misconceptions.

First, some facts - all based on plenty of published scientific research. Assuming that the subjects are otherwise healthy (no genetic diseases or endocrine problems etc):

1)A man who is the same weight and height as a woman (i.e. they have the same BMI) will require more calories to stay the same weight, assuming they are equally active/inactive. That's because men have more muscle bulk than women, and muscle consumes more calories for its weight than fat, even at rest. It also follows that a muscular man or woman will burn more calories at rest than a man or woman of the same weight who is flabby.

2)A person who is heavier will have a higher metabolic rate than someone (of the same sex and body fat percentage) who is lighter, and therefore will need to consume more calories to stay the same weight. This is obviously common sense (more bloated fat cells consume more energy just to survive), but it is also easily proven under controlled conditions, using oxygen consumption studies etc.

3)A person who is heavier will also 'burn' more calories when doing the same activity than someone (of the same sex and body fat percentage) who is lighter. So, a fat person will burn more calories when walking/running the same distance at the same pace as slim person.

There are very few untreatable conditions that cause people to have a 'slow metabolism', and most of them (like Prader-Willi Syndrome which cause chronic hunger among many other problems) are genetic disorders that are easily recognized early on because of the many other health and/or mental problems they are associated with.

Some people who are naturally restless and fidgety tend to be slimmer than most others: it's often thought that they burn a lot of 'insensible' calories just by their fidgeting, but the truth is also that they tend to have short attention spans and often leave their plates unfinished, because there's something more pressing that they've thought of doing....

Therefore, it's obvious that dropping your daily calorie intake consistently will ensure weight loss until your calorie requirements drop sufficiently (due to weight loss = lower metabolic rate) to match your reduced calorie intake, when your weight will then stabilize at the new level. To reduce further, you'll have to reduce your calorie intake further. Exercise boosts your metabolism for a short time - intense exercise gives a longer-term increased calorie 'afterburn effect' after you stop, which is partly why short bursts of running followed by 'recovery' walking (or 'intervals' in sportspeople-speak) are more efficient than slow steady walking for an hour in terms of health gains.

You don't know what it means to be healthy then.



This is definitely unhealthy. You're confusing being healthy with something else, but forcing yourself to exercise every spare minute and not eating will never be classified as healthy. I think you're confusing being thin with being healthy.

Everything is about balance. People who exercise aren't stupid. They're not going to keep up a lifestyle that causes them pain.

Put simply, exercise releases endorphins that make you happier, reduces stress, helps you sleep better, etc. Plus it gives you a better body image.

I exercise in the ways that I enjoy and I eat the foods I love in moderation, but I'm not overweight.



Again, you're thinking that 'thinner' means 'healthier', which is not true.

If you go to tumblr's 'thinspiration' and 'pro-anorexia' blogs, you'll see girls working towards unrealistic goals of being unhealthily thin and underweight. This is dangerous.
However, if you visit 'fitblr' blogs, these are girls and guys who lead (or aspire to lead) 'healthy', balanced lives through exercise and good eating habits. And maintain healthy weights, while building muscle.

Muscle takes up less space than fat, so while athletes have a bit more muscle and may weigh a bit heavier than non-athletes, they generally do not look 'bigger'. Picture a dancer or a yogi.

There is a difference between being healthy and being just thin.

I went out for a date with a guy who I thought had "class", but after our dinner of steak and lobster, he asked if he could scrap my potato and other things from my plate onto his . . . I said "I'm DONE . . . and left the restaurant and got a taxi home. Some people know what to do and how to say it, and others do not.

If you want the pleasure of my "company" & my conversation, you have to earn it!

I'm DONE here!

As my dad used to say, " παν μέτρο άριστο "

Your obsession with your own dating life is irrelevant to this discussion. The world doesn't owe you a ripped movie star. Get over yourself.

My goodness, you said "I'm done and left the restaurant and got a taxi home"? What a strange thing to say!

(To some of us, sins of punctuation are far worse than sins of restaurant left-over protocol. )

-J

Oh & I forgot to say "one" more thing here to you! . . . "TAXI"!!! . .

... I'll scrape your potato.

Actually, I think that behavior is illegal in several states.

Speaking of genetics, they would seem to have an influence on weight without necessarily being considered a disease.

The old "endomorph, ectomorph, mesomorph" types aren't considered valid anymore - I wonder what has replaced them. I know, for example, that I am genetically predisposed to being under the average weight for my height. If we don't say that is being an "ectomorph" any longer, what is it?

As it happens, I am also genetically inclined to overeat, which doesn't have to affect BMI, but is likely to. If those excess calories that result from eating more than I need aren't burned, they will turn to fat.

At any rate, genetics is definitely part of the weight picture for me, and obviously, for others. But I don't know the prevalence of this kind of genetic variation that affects weight.

And for me too. When I look at pictures of my ancestors, they are all built just like me. I look at food and gain weight and all my cousins complain about the same thing. I like to think I am genetically predisposed to surviving a famine because my body stockpiles fat so easily. I'm also well designed for very, very cold weather. (My ancestors came from Russia.) And my husband is happy with me just the way I am.

yeah, i read that 'Wheat Belly' book which made me cut down wheat and gluten rich foods, and unbelievably it made my joint pain in my knees go away, just like that! i used to eat at Panera Bread a lot, loving their bagels and breads, but now i hardly touch such foods anymore. i didn't go entirely gluten free, and rarely i would take a chance on that a little. but still, such a change has made me feel a lot better and healthier. i don't need to read that refute on that book, as it works for me. i truly believe wheat and many gluten rich foods are bad for many people just like me, who don't really have a celiac disease, and yet don't realize our bodies are sensitive at certain level to gluten in foods, and react to it physically with inflammation and pains. also, for some people, weigh gain is linked to eating wheat related products, such as pizza, bread, bagel and pasta, and once they drastically reduce those types of foods, they will loose weight. i have a friend who did just that: stop eating pasta and breads and she finally lost weight.

so, as i said before that what you eat has a lot to do with your health and weight, and unless you eat right foods, you won't get any healthier or loose any weight. sugar and wheat would be the first things people should cut from their diet if they want to be healthier or thinner.

Everyone is predisposed to gaining weight - if they are surrounded by plenty, which we are now. 20 years ago, there were hardly any obese people in China: go to Beijing and see what it's like now. Not quite as bad as in USA and UK, but they're catching up very quickly. The same for the big rich cities in otherwise poor countries (including all African countries). The genes haven't changed - it's the environment that has. But homo sapiens haven't adapted: it now requires an effort (controlling the amount we eat) to stay slim.

Looking at old newsreels program about VE Day celebrations in London, I'm struck by how slim everyone is - everyone. The same when I watched footage of The Great Depression in USA, when, amazingly, the life expectancy soared. That's because a low-calorie (but nutritious) diet prolongs life in all animals from mice to fish to elephants: there's a community of people around the world who've been restricting their calorie intake for some decades to live longer, and many of them look amazingly young for their age - their ageing process has slowed down, and they are also very healthy, and certainly not lacking energy. (Their calorie intake is around 1500 for the men and 1200 for the women - which is, oddly enough, the average calorie intake for the non-affluent population for centuries until fairly recently).

Yes, some people have bigger appetites than others, and genes determine your body shape in terms of whether you're predisposed to being pear-shaped (for women) or muscular (for men). But having a 'beer belly' (a protruding belly) increases your risk of diabetes, cardiovascular disease etc, etc. There is a South Pacific island where, before they became rich from tourism with the building of an airport, diabetes was almost unknown and people worked the land and were slim. Now, with imports of fatty lamb from NZ, obesity has gone out of control, everyone is apple-shaped, and half the population (including even children) have become diabetic.

We're eating more processed foods, and those foods contain extra sugar. (I'm not eating them, I'm not including myself in we.)

I wouldn't blame obesity on the eating of fatty lamb. I'm sure the total intake of unnecessary sugars increased in that unnamed South Pacific island as well.

I'm eating more or less the paleo\Atkins diet and consume a great deal of fat. My weight has gone from around 180 pounds to just over 150 (81 kg to 69 kg). I've done this in four months, so the consumption of fat is not an issue. (My breakfast today was a chicken thigh in butter along with broccoli and peas also in butter. I baked a whole chicken last night and I ate what was left over this morning.)

Eating fat is not a problem in losing weight nor does it impact negatively on blood chemistry. (I just had my blood chemistry checked three weeks ago and the numbers were all excellent. I can post them here if anyone's interested.)

The consumption of unnecessary sugars and along with 'starchy' foods is what is driving this obesity epidemic. It's the sodas and fruit drinks, along with the 'healthy' low fat yogurt also with extra sugar, that are the culprits in this obesity epidemic. (I had to laugh when reading In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto by Michael Pollan. He advises to avoid any foods packaged with the word 'healthy' on the label and gives examples like low fat yogurt. They remove the fat and add sugar. There's pictures of fruit on the package but there's no fiber.)

I'm finishing up reading Pure, White, and Deadly, a book on sugar. The sugar industry is just as evil as the tobacco industry.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Not only have I lost weight that I found impossible to lose over the last 20 years, but my blood chemistry improved as well. I have all the proof I need.

My point about the fatty lamb was mainly in relation to the soaring in the amount of calories those islanders ate, once those flights started coming in with the crates of discarded fatty offcuts of lamb (that Kiwis wouldn't eat). Before that, their diet was based around carbs (root vegetables etc) - but not sugar.

IMO, noone who wants a healthy diet should ever drink soda or anything containing high-fructose corn syrup or indeed, any other processed junk.

IMO, noone who wants a healthy diet should ever drink soda or anything containing high-fructose corn syrup or indeed, any other processed junk.

+1

I was at the gym last night and two girls working for Red Bull were handing out free samples of their product. I did my best to educate them.

I mentioned high fructose corn syrup to them but they had no idea what I was talking about (and Red Bull over here just uses sugar). I have since learned that there's a very low production quota of HFCS here in the EU (but it not low for health reasons).

The one girl asked me what I do if my sugar level is a little low and I start getting light headed, no doubt asked as a way to give sugar drinks a more positive light.

I just said I eat an apple. Yea, well apples have sugar. Yea, but they also have fiber which helps to keep the sugar level in my blood from spiking. ... and so on

I added this from NationMaster.com http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_sof_dri_con-food-soft-drink-consumption liters of soda consumer, per capita, from 2002 ... an old statistic

Milk. Milk (even skim) is excellent for low blood sugar, works quickly , has low glycemic index AND you get protein (not to mention Ca++ for the over 40ish crowd) to boot!

I'm confident you corrected him.

piano joy, I'm not a health nut but it does seem odd that only humans continue to drink milk beyond childhood ... and the milk isn't even from our own species. I never gave that any thought until I started reading about nutrition.

I don't think the rise in obesity means that people are predisposed to gaining weight - it just means that if the environment and culture changes in certain ways, the general population will gain weight. But that is not a predisposition to gain weight, genetically speaking.

Said differently - if eating a lot of junk makes a person fat, it may be because they are eating junk, rather than because they have some predisposition towards weight gain.

It's not really convenient for other species to do that, is it?

I have little time for the anti-refined-sugar crowd. So little of it has any real basis in science.

Here's some science from a doctor who works with obese children ....

Apart from the milk industry, I wonder why we do it.

Ah, that video again lol. There plenty of research that contradicts that man's findings, and with far less sensationalism. The science is far from being conclusive. Cut it out of your diet if you wish, but as bad as the tobacco industry? No.

Over 60% of the world's population are lactose intolerant, i.e. they've lost the capacity to digest milk sugar soon after they're weaned. In other words, for most of the world, cow/goat/sheep/anyone else's milk isn't a normal part of the human diet, just as milk from another species isn't a normal part of any other animal species' diet. Evolution over millennia, after farming of cattle etc became prevalent, allowed humans of European ancestry (and a few other parts of the world) to retain the capacity to digest lactose into adulthood.

But milk contains a high percentage of saturated fat, which leads to high cholesterol and increases the risk of cardiovascular disease. Humans still haven't evolved to cope with this problem......

Scroll down to the bottom of the page where the last map is ...

The data are from 1985 to 2010 in the animated map and the data for 2011 is above that in a static map.

http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html

Everyone can come up with their own explanation.

I went back and corrected the spelling of the word industry.

And now I've been quoted with incorrect spelling. I have a built in spell checker and it didn't underline it and I didn't see it.

My apologies ...

Not true of skim milk (and I buy organic, btw...)
I understand the opposite view, however, I believe skim milk ranks # 3 in terms of healthy liquids.
( water & a good margarita ranking 1st and 2nd ! )

I buy 1% milk, unless I'm baking, in which case I'll use full fat.

bennevis, But milk contains a high percentage of saturated fat, which leads to high cholesterol and increases the risk of cardiovascular disease. Humans still haven't evolved to cope with this problem......

You know, I consume a fair amount of fat in my diet ... all kinds of animal fat, dairy fat, and vegetable fat. It's interesting that my blood chemistry is excellent.

When I went back to my family doctor three weeks ago to pick up the results of my blood work, the doctor's assistant advised me to watch the amount of fat I consume but she only mentioned that after I told her about the diet I follow ... low carbs, high fat (and no starches).

I had the results of the blood work in my hand and just waved them at her. If animal fat is so bad, why is my blood chemistry measurably excellent?

There's an explanation for that ... and I have a life outside of this forum.

I saw an interesting documentary once where they recreated a historical (and controversial) experiment in which a group of people increased their daily calorie intake from normal to more than triple for several weeks, including all sorts of junk food they wouldn't normally eat. In both experiments, the results were that a few people gained a lot of weight, a few people put on an inch or two around the waist, and a few saw no changes to their body whatsoever.

Numerous studies have consistently shown that when people (of any age) are given easy access to a large variety and amounts of appetizing foods/junk, they'll eat more. Which is what we're faced with today. It's not just junk food either. Excess calories cannot be 'disposed of' - the body has to store it, as fat. If necessary, we'll develop more fat cells to accomodate (which won't disappear when we no longer require them). We'll even store fat in organs like the liver: NAFLD (non-alcoholic fatty liver disease) is becoming almost an epidemic in Western countries, and overtaking alcohol-related liver disease in some areas...

I saw that programme too. It was not a proper controlled experiment - the subjects were free to get on with their normal lives, which made all the difference between how much weight they put on, and how they put it on.

If subjects were made to eat all their meals in front of the experimenters and their exercise routines monitored, and they stayed under surveillance throughout the experimental period, the results would be much more valid.

Unfortunately, many so-called 'studies' are flawed in this way, which is why the food industry can 'justify' themselves so easily. And, not to put too fine a point on it, why so many people can claim that their weight problem is due to 'low metabolism' or something similar (rather than eating too much).....

How conclusive can a dietary study be that lasts only "for several weeks"?

Regards,

Maybe you have good genes. Some people are born lucky that way.

I won't ask you what your cholesterol and HDL and LDL and TG levels are , but we know that mammals - mice to rabbits to elephants to whales to, er, humans are born with a cholesterol level of around 3 mmol/l - which don't rise if you stay on a fish and veg and fruit and grains/nuts (and no junk food of any sort) diet throughout your life, e.g. if you live in rural Japan. (Or if you're a wild animal, eating natural wild foods).

But in most countries, your cholesterol level starts rising as soon as you're weaned. The reasons are obvious.

When did I say that it was conclusive? It's not. That's the point.

That's not true. We are just the only creatures that harvest milk. Put a bowl of milk down in front of a cat or dog and watch.

Sugar makes us stupid, Omega 3's protects the mind. This should be common sense by now.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...health-science/

"Cherbuin says that we still do not fully understand all the factors involved in regulating blood sugar levels. We do know enough to say that poor diet, lack of exercise, and constant stress likely play a leading role in maintaining unhealthily high levels, he says.

"It is this chronic exposure to high glucose levels that is more likely to lead to poorer brain health," he says."

Read more.
http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20120904/normal-blood-sugar-levels-may-harm-brain

It's not brain sugary!

What the helll? When did "charlie" become DAVE_250?

I play several instruments, so I am a member in a few forums, and this is a universal question.

Keep my identity secret please , I am also in a batman forum

That doesn't answer why your name on this forum just changed from Charlie to Dave during a 2 year break.

No answer for yah. I probably changed it two years ago.

A forum devoted to those in service of a British military officer? Who knew?!

Cheers!

Why would I want to place a bowl of milk in front of a watch?

Of course - it's sort of a no-brainer. Since scarcity has been more common than excess throughout most of human existence, it is no surprise that we have, as a species, evolved to store up calories when we are presented with the opportunity to do so.

I'm not convinced that would be a "predisposition" in the same sense that I meant it when I said I was genetically predisposed to be slender. That individual genetic trait I have is, in fact, something of a counterbalance to the general trend of adding on the pounds.

And if Deborah had her genome sequenced, she might find that her sense about how weight gain works in her family would be verified by some specific genetic data. Or it could turn out that her genome did not especially predispose her towards weight gain, over the usual kind that you describe (at least at the current level of genetic knowledge, which is far from comprehensive). But, absent any further information, there is no reason to assume that her perception is solely attributable to the same type of weight gain that is seen in the general population in the industrialized countries.

Human beings, unlike other species, aren't slaves to our genes. But for some people, it's still harder than for others to stay slim/lose weight. Some people are more attracted to eating than others, just as some people have addictive personalities.

The notion that some slim people can eat anything they want (and lots more than fat people), yet still remain slim, has been comprehensively debunked by numerous controlled studies. Self-reported so-called 'studies' are the source of this myth. How many people are able to spend 24 hours/day in the company of dieticians who can monitor exactly how many calories they are eating? A study I read recently showed that fat people under-report how much they ate by between 50 - 400%, while slim people tend to be more accurate, but still under-report generally. A lot of the 'missing calories' are from mindless snacking (which can be healthy fruit as well as unhealthy cookies, but they are all calories....) while watching TV, in between meals, with coffee breaks, while cooking and nibbling etc; others come from the under-estimation of how much food they are actually eating at mealtimes, or simply not realizing that what they are eating is a lot, lot more than 'one portion'. (BTW, a portion of steak/meat/fish is the size of a pack of cards).

I was a chubby (OK, somewhat fat ) child, because my parents always tried to pile up the children's plates (like most people, I like to blame others for my problems...) with the admonishment that 'children are starving in Africa', therefore I shouldn't waste any food and should clear my plates. (My young mind couldn't grasp that linking one with the other made no sense...). I was hopeless at any sports at school, so turned to music and chess and the theory of relativity instead. My brother ballooned to some 300lb (he died two years ago at the age of 49 from a stroke due to hypertension and undiagnosed diabetes); I was lucky in that I lived my own life and didn't get too fat, because I was (and still am) a hopeless cook but didn't like the taste of fast food, nor of snack products. And what really changed was when I took up hiking, then mountaineering, then discovered that the best way to keep myself fit for the mountains was to run - preferably on hilly ground. But running isn't easy (for myself, or for onlookers pretending not to notice.... ) when you're overweight, so I set out to lose weight - by eating consistently less at the two main meals I have everyday. Breakfast was spared from pruning. The running itself didn't shed any more pounds - even when I was running 60 miles/week when training for the London Marathon (of which I've run four so far), I didn't lose a single pound, partly because I refuelled with orange juice after every run: it was the downsizing of my portion sizes that achieved the weight loss.

In the UK, those in government are so PC and sensitive to the public's 'feelings' that they equate losing weight with exercise rather than eating less (and instead of telling people to stop eating so much, they beat about the bush by saying we should all eat more 'healthily', as if calories from a 'healthy' veggie burger is somehow less fattening than the same calories from an 'unhealthy' Big Mac), yet it's a hopeless endeavor for anyone to achieve any significant weight loss without actually cutting down their food intake (in calorie terms). For instance, to lose one pound of fat, the average person would have to walk or run 35-40 miles. How many obese people can walk one mile? Yet it's very easy to eat the 3500 calories (= 1 lb fat) in one sitting: I've scoffed over 4500 calories in one meal (after running a marathon, or climbing a mountain) numerous times....

And a recent study has shown that the reason why today's children are getting so overweight is not because children are exercising less than they did 30 years ago - in fact the average amount of daily exercise that children do today is about the same as then (despite all those computer games etc) - but simply because they are eating more; much more than they did 30 years ago. Many children under 10 are eating more than adults did 30 years ago. The average daily calorie intake of American adults today is around 3500.....

And a recent study has shown that the reason why today's children are getting so overweight is not because children are exercising less than they did 30 years ago - in fact the average amount of daily exercise that children do today is about the same as then (despite all those computer games etc) - but simply because they are eating more; much more than they did 30 years ago. Many children under 10 are eating more than adults did 30 years ago. The average daily calorie intake of American adults today is around 3500.....

There are many variations to that theme, but that's basically it along with the added insult of fructose.

Soda and fruit drinks in the US are loaded with high fructose corn syrup. Fructose is metabolized differently in the body than sucrose and repeated exposure to fructose can lead to leptin resistance.

Hundreds of years ago a sugar treat was really a treat and didn't impact on the health of a nation. Today we have access to all kinds of 'treats' and they've become a necessity, a staple of our diet. Thirty percent of the US population is obese and we have HFCS to thank.

Getting back to exercise, three of four years ago I joined a gym expressly to lose weight. A friend of mine told me that two things would happen, my weight would stay exactly the same and my legs would get thick. That's exactly what happened.

While we all know that to lose weight we have to consume fewer calories, there is a difference between them - a calorie is not a calorie.

After reading a few books on this and watching countless videos, I have much more empathy for obese folks. No one really wants to be fat ... and knowing what to eat and what to avoid is the key. For me, it was the talk by Gary Taubes, Why We`Are Fat, that opened my eyes. Once I understood what happens at the cellular level, I could easily manage my own diet.

Maybe the edit above will help you understand. At first I assumed you thought you were being humorous but it could be you don't understand how to make a list.

Well, I thought what Dave wrote was "funny"! I laughed!

Just like I thought this was funny. Sad...but funny!
And I wonder what the "NEXT Generation" down the road is going to look like.



Sorry I couldn't resist! . . . TAXI !!!!!!

That's not true. We are just the only creatures that harvest milk. Put a bowl of milk down in front of a cat or dog and watch.



I understood what you meant ... and you understood what I meant.

Most folks would have smiled. You didn't.

Dave, I thought what you wrote was most funny! I smiled. I laughed actually!

Don't worry I think some people just lack humour.
And I just think Batman should look like this ! OH YES I do!
AND BATMAN, if you get this message. CALL ME! . . .

The issue for me is what can I put on my raisin bran other than milk?
(I don't like soy milk) I noticed that in the USA, the obsession with
putting cheese on practically everything! the waitress asked, do I want
cheese on my eggs, french fries, hash browns etc.. cheese obsessed!! LOL!

This guy has an idea that might work for you... (at 25 seconds)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRJ02VB5Evk

Forrest

p.s. I guess from the Hoffman quotes thread my enjoyment of this song puts me squarely in the 'amateur' camp.

1+
And,if Diane's not home, call ME!
I promise to wear a catwoman suit!

wait- I'm sorry, what was this thread about again?

hmmmmmmmm.....

maybe

Forrest

I remember Allan Sherman from Hello Muddah, Hello Fadduh. I just looked him up at Wiki and learned he died in 1973 at the age of 48.

From Wiki ... Late in his life, Sherman drank and ate heavily which resulted in a dangerous weight gain; he later developed diabetes and struggled with lung disease. In 1966, his wife Dee filed for divorce and received full custody of their son and daughter.

Sherman lived on unemployment benefits for a time and moved into the Motion Picture Home near Calabasas, California for a short time to lose weight. He died of emphysema at home in West Hollywood ten days before his 49th birthday. He is entombed in Culver City, California's Hillside Memorial Park Cemetery.

Diane, how about you toddle off now and forget the way back. Your contributions to this thread have been nothing short of puerile. We get it, you can't find a fella you think is worthy of you. I gotta say, I clicked on your photo link, and I'm sorry to say, you aint all that.. You've got no business ranting on about how most men aren't up to your standard. Off you go now - have fun on the teen forums...

This topic has become a confused mess.

Let's bring it back to something somewhat musical or put it to bed.

Yes I did.

Batman definitely should not look like George Clooney in a nipple suit.

I played the batman theme at a recital when I was 8. I probably had less than 8% body fat at the time.

Human beings, if not "slaves" to their genes, are still mostly governed by them, with some room to maneuver within the framework provided by them. And obviously, about some things, there's no wiggle room to be had. There are many genetically determined things about myself I would have changed at various times in my life if I could have, but that's not a possibility. I'm sure many people feel the same.



The notion I have that some slim people can eat anything they want, yet still remain slim isn't based on a study - it's based on who I was from approximately 15 to 50. I wanted to gain some weight, but no matter how much I ate or what, it just didn't happen.

As far as studies based on self-reported data being debunked - AFAIK, such studies are still being done and are being published in reputable journals, so the debunking may not have been as comprehensive as you imagine.

There was recently a series of programs on Channel 4 in the UK where they put two people - one obese, the other very skinny - together to live for one week under constant monitoring. It was an eye opener for many viewers - including, I have to say, myself. The fat people were eating up to five times the amount of calories that the thin people were.

Then there was another series on the same channel, where they put whole families under 24-hour surveillance - CCTV was placed in all the rooms in their house (with the permission of the families involved). But what the participants didn't know was that they were also being followed everywhere they went by private investigators, who videoed them as they went to McD, KFC etc, etc. Beforehand, the people filled in comprehensive food diaries, which were given to dieticians to work out their daily (self-reported) calorie intake. Many, many of them seemed to be eating around 1500 cal/day, based on their food diaries, when in reality they were eating over 4000 cal/day, based on the 24-hour surveillance.

In yet another program shown a few years ago, this time on BBC TV, two friends - one slim, the other fat, were subjected to a series of tests, including basal metabolic rate (metabolic rate at rest) to find out whether the reason why the fat woman was fat was because she has a 'slow metabolism' (as she thought), because they both agreed that the slim woman ate far more than the fat one. Certainly, when they ate together in the café, the slim woman piled up her plate and finished it, while the fat one left hers half-finished. They were tested and monitored for one week, at the end of which the results were presented to them. The fat woman has a rather higher BMR than the slim one, as one would expect (after all, she has more fat cells and bigger fat cells to feed); and she ate twice as much as they both thought she did, most of the food being consumed in the privacy of her kitchen, or snacking while watching TV etc. Not in front of her friend, or other people. Whereas with the slim woman, she happily stuffed herself in front of others (and the cameras), but didn't snack at home - she ate far less at home than the fat woman....

If you think you really can't gain weight no matter how much you eat, see if you can live for one week with a fat person, and eat everything they eat, in exactly the same quantities.....even if you have to force yourself to . Then weigh yourself again at the end of that week.....

Or alternatively, just add a big tub of Ben & Jerry's (or Häagen-Dazs, or any other brand of your choice - just make sure it's full-fat and real ice-cream..) to your dinner every day - again force yourself to eat it if you have to (personally, I have no problem eating the lot in 5 minutes flat ), and weigh yourself after one week. Just bear in mind that the ice-cream is in addition to your normal meals (including desserts etc), not a replacement for them.

This is getting kind of sad - I'm outta here.

For once, we're in total agreement .

Let's get back to classical music, and the piano.

I've always adhered naturally to a healthy diet..lately I've been taking steroids.. yuk... and crave things like onion rings, deep fried mushrooms, hamburgers. I am supposed to gain weight but just hate it. (love the deep fried mushrooms tho). I certainly notice a difference in how i feel. I like an austere diet. all these extra calories make my tummy hurt and i feel so lack luster.

Yes, op, there is a healthy diet that can improve your playing! It will also improve your health in general and greatly reduce your chances of suffering or dying from heart disease, diabetes, obesity and other illnesses, which are directly related to the disgusting "food" we put in our mouths nowadays. This diet will also greatly improve the chance of this planet remaining inhabitable, as well as ending the unimaginable suffering of the other sentient animals with whom we share this fragile earth. The consequences of us not adopting this lifestyle are already very much in evidence, if we chose to open our eyes to the reality... which tragically, most of mankind is not.

...Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight

My wife is a vegetarian though I am not. I do understand the ethical considerations and have seen many documentaries on the abuse and general poor treatment of industrial farm animals. (A friend of mine here was a government inspector of a slaughterhouse and arranged for me to have a private tour. I strongly encourage everyone to tour a slaughterhouse. It's a numbing experience.)

I don't have a strong view on this but our ancestors were not vegans and we did not evolve to be vegetarians. I do eat fish, chicken, and meat and try to buy organically raised products.

Yes, homo sapiens weren't evolved to be vegans, which is why vegans need vitamin and mineral supplementation to avoid health problems. The best diet for both health and environment is pescetarianism, which is actually what many (- ?most) Japanese are on, and they are the people with the highest life expectancy in the world.

Just avoid endangered species like bluefin tuna; there are many species of fish that are in abundance but unfortunately many people don't eat them.

You really don't need meat from land animals or diary in your diet.

I could easily become vegetarian, but how does one become vegan and give up delicious CHEESE ????

Life without feta cheese? No freshly shaved Parmigiano-Reggiano on (whole wheat) pasta? No ooey-gooey mozzarella on pizza(thick crust, only) ? No Greek saganaki appetizer EVER? I don't know....

I make serious attempts to eat healthy, but shamelessly admit to believing food is one of life's pleasures. Must be the Greek in me.

There is actually a difference between vegetarian and vegan. Vegans don't eat any products that come from animals, vegetarians just don't eat meat, poultry and seafood, but they do eat cheese and eggs, so you can become a vegetarian!

...nothing compared with the health problems caused by the vast quantities of cholesterol consumed nowadays and which is only found in animal meat and fluids. B12 and D2 are the most important supplements vegans need, all other essential vitamins and minerals are found in abundance - and better quality - in a well balanced plant-based diet , such as my wife and I eat. We only need B12 supplements because of the sanitised lives we lead nowadays, which means that we do not get the vitamin naturally from bacteria, as do the animals. And D3 is largely derived from sheep's wool, for goodness sake! Incidentally we've never enjoyed our food so much, so much so that we no longer even miss cheese! I'm 61 and have never been healthier (my doctor is amazed at my blood chemistry).

Of course it's for everyone to make their own informed decision about the life they lead, including the food they eat. Having said this, the cruelty and scale of the factory farming of intelligent animals (including fish), with its associated huge pollution, is the greatest crime on earth in my opinion. My fear is that enlightenment and acceptance of the stark truth, although growing, will come too late - far too late for our delicate ecosystems to recover.

My best to you all.

I work in a vegan shop and a lot of our customers don't look particularly healthy. Perhaps they haven't done enough research. A friend of mine a few years ago decided to go vegan, but she rather naively sought no dietary advice, she just cut everything out. Two weeks later she became extremely ill.

I could never give up cheese. Or honey, goodness me they don't even sell honey.

What you're describing could be reverse causality as well: some of them could have assorted health issues that they are trying to fix through modifying their diet.

The omega 3 fatty acids from fish and seafood (EPA and DHA) is different from that in the plants that contain these like flaxseed (ALA), which isn't found to offer the kind of cardio-protective and anti-inflammatory effects. We eat the wrong ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 in the West, which vegan diets don't do much to reverse. There is a (very high-dose) omega 3 supplement which is currently prescribed to people following heart attacks to reduce the risk of a subsequent attack in the immediate aftermath, which is entirely derived from fish/seafood, and is also used to treat people with high levels of triglycerides.

As for those unable to stop eating cheese, just think of it as salted lard. It tastes like that to me.....

As long as you're mentioning fat ...

By the way, my grandmother cooked with lard and butter ... she lived to be 95.

I've watched this twice ...

You've confirmed what I've suspected from your post about your cholesterol level - you have inherited great genes. (I hope you're passing them on....). Just like our Royal Family.

I'm not jealous....

Lard is nice. I cook chips in it and occasionally make pastry with it.

I still cook with lard and butter. I wouldn't use anything but lard for a pie crust.

Nor would I.
That's why I don't make pies . I prefer to munch on them, like the mince pie that's in my mouth right now....

You know, since I recently started cooking with butter I am always reminded of my grandmother ... the smell of butter cooking triggers memories from my childhood.

Aww. It's interesting how smells trigger memories.

After I started rock climbing I hace actually gotten better technically at the piano... I guess a greater arm strenght gives a better velocity. I normally have long school days combined with staying at school afterwards to study and play the piano. If I don't eat well, work out or sleep well I would notice it in my performance level at once. I think and belive that a healthy life is extremely important to perform, and also prevent injuries.