Scarlatti

Posted by: Works1

Scarlatti - 01/05/13 10:39 AM

My primary musical goal over the holiday's was to listen to Scarlatti. Of course I am familiar with his music but I never spent the time to truly appreciate the scope and depth of his works, until now. I spent hours listening to dozens of his sonatas (many several times) and have now truly come to appreciate his genius. Great stuff. I particularly liked the performances of Pletnev, Horowitz, Pogorelich and Yuja Wang (but then again I love everthing Yuja plays).

I developed a list of favorites and will be learning them in the coming months. And I still have many sonatas to listen to!

In any case, for those of you who play Scarlatti, what are some of your favorites? I would love to check them out.

Thanks all smile
Posted by: dolce sfogato

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 11:14 AM

K.417, a fugue, starts like Palestrina, ends like Mozart on cocaine.
Posted by: bennevis

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 11:15 AM

For toccata-like brilliance, there's the D minor Kk141; for beauty, the B minor Kk27; for Spanish guitar fun, the E major Kk380; another E major beauty is Kk531.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 12:13 PM

A few other Scrlatti pianists I'd recommend, each with many Youtube recordings:Gilels, Tipo, Theraud.
Posted by: Entheo

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 12:42 PM

Regarding Scarlatti -- some have said that time is better spent on Bach, but I think Scarlatti holds a world of joy and challenge that is - almost - approachable with limited skills. Scarlatti's music is perhaps some of the most under-appreciated or, at least, under-exposed music which contains an omnipresent joie de vivre not found with any other composer I can think of.

In the right hands I'm a sucker for Scarlatti, and Horowitz, Gilels and Tipo top my list of Scarlatti interpreters.

here are 3 i've had a go at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyVAceg4TFU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDD2wD_aDx8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyVAceg4TFU
Posted by: sophial

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 01:11 PM

Horowitz is unsurpassed in Scarlatti. I've loved some of Martha Argerich's Scarlatti as well.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 02:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Entheo
Regarding Scarlatti -- some have said that time is better spent on Bach....

Of course we need both! smile

Quote:
....but I think Scarlatti holds a world of joy and challenge that is - almost - approachable with limited skills....

Musically, yes. Pianistically, IMO absolutely not, unless we're talking only about the "slow" pieces. Let me say this: At amateur competitions, unless we're not 'really' amateurs we die a lot faster with Scarlatti than with Bach! Scarlatti shows our pianistic imperfections quicker and more starkly than almost any other composer, maybe absolutely any other besides Mozart, maybe even more so.

Originally Posted By: sophial
Horowitz is unsurpassed in Scarlatti....

+1

Quote:
I've loved some of Martha Argerich's Scarlatti as well.

Never heard her Scarlatti! Gotta look for it.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 02:13 PM

One of my favorites (and yes, I've sort of died with this in amateur competitions): ha



It's one of the ones that has both a great "slow" part and a great "fast" part, with them alternating. A real gem! -- but then we could probably say that about another 500. smile
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 02:25 PM

Some of my favorite Scarlatti recordings are on instruments other than piano....or harpsichord either. Like, guitar or (especially) synthesizer. I tried to find an online recording of something from the early LP, "The Well Tempered Synthesizer," by Walter/Wendy Carlos, which has splendid renditions of (I think) 4 Scarlatti sonatas. Couldn't find that, but here's a sample from someone else's very good attempt at a rendition along the same line (on one of the same sonatas that Carlos did):



(Sorry that there's stuff before the music. It starts at 0:25.)
Posted by: didyougethathing

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 02:48 PM

Scarlatti's music consistently amazes me. It's so fresh: the energy, the themes, the modulations. Here are some of my favorites:

K.531, my overall favorite


K.517


K.370


K.466


K.239


K.208


K.9
Posted by: boo1234

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C

Never heard her Scarlatti! Gotta look for it.


There's only one in her repertoire:

Posted by: didyougethathing

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By: boo1234
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

Never heard her Scarlatti! Gotta look for it.


There's only one in her repertoire:



One of her signature pieces, but I always found this performance to be absolutely mind blowing:

Posted by: Works1

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 03:44 PM

This is great stuff, thank you all.

I recall once reading that Chopin had a particular fondness toward Scarlatti. I did some research and found this quote:

Frederic Chopin, as a piano teacher, notably worte: "Those of my dear colleagues who teach the piano are unhappy that I make my own pupils work on Scarlatti. But I am surprised that they are so blinkered. His music contains finger exercises aplenty and more than a touch of the most elevated spirituality. Sometimes he is even a match for Mozart. If I were not afraid of incurring the disapprobation of numerous fools, I would play Scarlatti at my concerts. I maintain that the day will come when Scarlatti's music will often be played at concerts and that audiences will appreciate and enjoy."

Well, I'm not sure how true the quote is but I think it underscores Scarlatti's brillance.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 04:09 PM

I've listened to a lot of Scarlatti but I'd guess I've only heard 50-100 of his Sonatas since certain ones tend to get most of the coverage. So I've heard only 10-20% of his Sonatas. Imagine if one said that about Beethoven or Mozart.

An almost infinite number of treasures.
Posted by: Dachshund

Re: Scarlatti - 01/05/13 04:40 PM

I've read through and listened to a considerable amount of Scarlatti (and I've still probably only covered 10% of them :D) and I've found quite a few pieces that I wish would be played more commonly, rather than some of his other Sonatas:
K. 46 (L. 25)
k. 105 (L. 204)
K. 116 (L. 452)
K. 119 (L. 415)
K. 132 (L. 457)
Posted by: worov

Re: Scarlatti - 01/06/13 09:26 AM

Scarlatti is one of my favorite baroque composers. My favourite performers are Horowitz, Pogorelich, Anne Queffelec, Mikhail Pletnev, Inger Södergren and above all Maria Tipo (a truly underrated pianist).

Here are some of my favourite :

K30 Cat's Fugue

K95 : very good to practice hands crossing

K404

K515

K547

K32 : this most beautiful piece is dead easy (grade 2) but is never played. Don't ask me why.

K213

K27 : my all-time favourite.


There are at least wonderful sonatas 540 other sonatas he composed, but I don't have the time to put all the links.
Posted by: WhoDwaldi

Re: Scarlatti - 01/06/13 06:39 PM

K. 125 in G Major is played brilliantly by Angelo Arciglione, who was a Tipo student, I believe.

http://bitly.com/TFdLC5
Posted by: argerichfan

Re: Scarlatti - 01/06/13 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By: boo1234

There's only one in her repertoire:


The only one she has played in public, or at least to the best of my knowledge.

Argerich's repertoire is supposedly HUGE, but relatively little of it seems to see the light of day. There are reports of her blazing through the Liszt 'Mephisto' at parties, but I cannot trace any live performances. I should not be surprised if she plays many more Scarlatti sonatas than the one treasure we have.

I have loved Scarlatti since a boy, his music is infinitely fascinating to me. Adding up my recordings, those I have heard in concert, the few I played, and many more that I sightread through, I'm barely running 40 of the total.

One can only imagine the riches I must be missing out on. I think they're like the Haydn string quartets and piano trios: I have only heard a few of those, but every instance had something unique to communicate. Too much music, so little time.
Posted by: Palindrome

Re: Scarlatti - 01/06/13 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: worov
...Maria Tipo (a truly underrated pianist)....


Maria Tipo may be underrated, but I remember back in the 70s two discs (LPs) of her Scarlatti were released by Ricordi, and the classical reviewer for Time thought they were the best piano records of the year. Unfortunately, the reviewer had virtually no knowledge of Italian, and translated "Dischi Ricordi" as "Dischi Records." The few people I knew who were traveling to Italy at that time were unable to locate the records because of that, and it was years before I found them. It was worth the wait; she definitely has her own voice that comes through in the music.
Posted by: Palindrome

Re: Scarlatti - 01/06/13 09:30 PM

And let me add this, partly in response to Argerich's brilliant K. 141:

Posted by: Entheo

Re: Scarlatti - 01/06/13 10:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Palindrome
Originally Posted By: worov
...Maria Tipo (a truly underrated pianist)....


Maria Tipo may be underrated, but I remember back in the 70s two discs (LPs) of her Scarlatti were released by Ricordi, and the classical reviewer for Time thought they were the best piano records of the year. Unfortunately, the reviewer had virtually no knowledge of Italian, and translated "Dischi Ricordi" as "Dischi Records." The few people I knew who were traveling to Italy at that time were unable to locate the records because of that, and it was years before I found them. It was worth the wait; she definitely has her own voice that comes through in the music.


i highly recommend this tipo album:

http://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-18-Sonatas-Maria-Tipo/dp/B00005RD9O/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Posted by: pianoslacker

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 12:33 AM



Wow - a gem. Thanks for the heads up. Also I love that particular version you posted - very natural and song-like.

I'm so tempted to promote myself to grade 2, perhaps just for this one piece, but I guess I can wait. smile
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 12:54 AM

Originally Posted By: pianoslacker
Wow - a gem. Thanks for the heads up....

Yes, it is!
And actually it is played a bit. I first heard it where I first heard most of them: Fernando Valenti's harpsichord LP's -- and fell in love with it immediately.
Posted by: pianoslacker

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 02:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: pianoslacker
Wow - a gem. Thanks for the heads up....

Yes, it is!
And actually it is played a bit. I first heard it where I first heard most of them: Fernando Valenti's harpsichord LP's -- and fell in love with it immediately.


Yes, quite a few seem to play it. I checked out Gilels and Maria Tipo on youtube. They seem to play it in a more mannered way.

Perhaps worov meant it's not being given out to the grade 2 students. Maybe the teachers are keeping it for themselves? smile
Posted by: worov

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 03:23 AM

Quote:
Maria Tipo may be underrated, but I remember back in the 70s two discs (LPs) of her Scarlatti were released by Ricordi, and the classical reviewer for Time thought they were the best piano records of the year. Unfortunately, the reviewer had virtually no knowledge of Italian, and translated "Dischi Ricordi" as "Dischi Records." The few people I knew who were traveling to Italy at that time were unable to locate the records because of that, and it was years before I found them. It was worth the wait; she definitely has her own voice that comes through in the music.


Sadly, these two LP records have never been re-edited in CD format and that's a shame because they are amazing as you say. Someone had the kindness to upload them on YouTube. Here is the playlist :

Maria Tipo : The Ricordi LP from the 1970's

Her EMI recording mentionned by Entheo is very good too. I also recommend this one :

Maria Tipo : Scarlatti sonatas and Mozart Concertos

About K32, yes, I meant the piano teachers don't assign this piece often to the students. I know the piece has been performed : Inger Södergren has played it, Maria Tipo has recorded it at least two times and Michael Lewin has recorded it too.

If you are interested in discovering more of the Scarlatti sonatas, Naxos is currently recording a complete set. There are 14 volumes already. Each volume is played by a different pianist. I strongly recommend these CDs, they are very good music with several underplayed sonatas.
Posted by: wr

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 05:15 AM

Originally Posted By: worov
Scarlatti is one of my favorite baroque composers. My favourite performers are Horowitz, Pogorelich, Anne Queffelec, Mikhail Pletnev, Inger Södergren and above all Maria Tipo (a truly underrated pianist).

Here are some of my favourite :

K30 Cat's Fugue

K95 : very good to practice hands crossing

K404

K515

K547

K32 : this most beautiful piece is dead easy (grade 2) but is never played. Don't ask me why.

K213

K27 : my all-time favourite.


There are at least wonderful sonatas 540 other sonatas he composed, but I don't have the time to put all the links.


Here are all the links -

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScarlattiSonata/videos?view=1&flow=grid

I don't know who is playing the harpsichord on these - Scott Ross, maybe?
Posted by: worov

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 07:19 AM

Quote:
I don't know who is playing the harpsichord on these - Scott Ross, maybe?


Thank you for the links. To my knowledge, there are only two complete sets on harpsichord : Scott Roos and Pieter-Jan Belder. So if the recordings in these links are all made by the same performer, I guess it could be one of these.
Posted by: argerichfan

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 10:23 AM

Originally Posted By: worov
To my knowledge, there are only two complete sets on harpsichord : Scott Ross and Pieter-Jan Belder.

Whilst sleuthing through Google I read that Fernando Valenti recorded 330 of the Scarlatti sonatas, surely a decent chunk of them?

Does anyone here have any of those old LPs? (Mark?) They were highly praised.
Posted by: bennevis

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 10:34 AM

Normally, someone starts a debate on whether one prefers these Sonatas played on the harpsichord or piano (or guitar, or harp, or ukelele...), but as nobody has started it yet, I'll say that I don't like the harpsichord in Scarlatti (nor in Bach, except as a continuo instrument wink ), and of the several CDs I've got, all are played on piano.

Pletnev is my favorite, followed by Christian Zacharias and Yevgeny Sudbin.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 12:52 PM

Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Does anyone here have any of those old LPs? (Mark?) They were highly praised.

Unfortunately I don't! My college (that was 1000 years ago) grin had probably the whole set; if not, then most of those LP's -- and I just listened to them there.
Posted by: RonaldSteinway

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 01:38 PM

Actually, I love Scarlatti's work more than Bach's. It is so enjoyable to listen and to play.
I just do not like to learn long pieces. One time a teacher of my friend's asked what I am going to play for a competition. She told her Scarlatti and Mozart, and the teacher's reply "Suicidal!" HAHAHAHAHAA....She was correct!!!
Posted by: didyougethathing

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Actually, I love Scarlatti's work more than Bach's. It is so enjoyable to listen and to play.
I just do not like to learn long pieces. One time a teacher of my friend's asked what I am going to play for a competition. She told her Scarlatti and Mozart, and the teacher's reply "Suicidal!" HAHAHAHAHAA....She was correct!!!


I'd say most of the sonatas are five minutes and under. And if you take into account that many of them just have 2 sections that are each repeated, you are only "learning" half of the actual duration of the piece, which makes them very nice to learn.
Posted by: RonaldSteinway

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By: didyougethathing
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Actually, I love Scarlatti's work more than Bach's. It is so enjoyable to listen and to play.
I just do not like to learn long pieces. One time a teacher of my friend's asked what I am going to play for a competition. She told her Scarlatti and Mozart, and the teacher's reply "Suicidal!" HAHAHAHAHAA....She was correct!!!


I'd say most of the sonatas are five minutes and under. And if you take into account that many of them just have 2 sections that are each repeated, you are only "learning" half of the actual duration of the piece, which makes them very nice to learn.


I agree that is why I am a big fan of Scarlatti's sonatas.
Posted by: signa

Re: Scarlatti - 01/07/13 08:33 PM

Bozhanov's Scarlatti is always irresistible for me, also, Kuntz's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw5QLyzq3tg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBi6_jzl5aU

but i also like Pogo's early recording, Schiff's, Horowitz's. my former teacher loves Babayan's Scarlatti's CD:

http://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-Sonatas-...an+scarlatti+cd
Posted by: Chopinlover49

Re: Scarlatti - 01/09/13 10:36 AM

I believe there are at least 2 cd complete collections, but have not purchased a set yet because I find my ear becomes tired after listening to many sonatas from Scarlatti in a row. I usually don't have this problem as I really like a wide variety of music, but I will continue listening to a lot of Scarlatti and will hope my interest increases with familiarity. Does anyone else have this experience?
Posted by: pianoslacker

Re: Scarlatti - 01/09/13 04:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Chopinlover49
I believe there are at least 2 cd complete collections, but have not purchased a set yet because I find my ear becomes tired after listening to many sonatas from Scarlatti in a row. I usually don't have this problem as I really like a wide variety of music, but I will continue listening to a lot of Scarlatti and will hope my interest increases with familiarity. Does anyone else have this experience?


I've been thinking about this. grin Too much music can certainly seem like a nightmare. And in any case is listening to 3, 15, or 550 Scarlatti sonatas really better than listening to just one?

I did hear one time a musician - I have no idea who now - proposing, at least theoretically, concerts composed of just a single piece of music.

Imagine: 6 pm you shower, shave, put on your evening dress, apply make-up. The chauffeur toots down in the street. You go down, drive to the hall. You hang around in the foyer, the bell rings, you take your seat in the auditorium. The lights go down. The pianist emerges, bows, you applaud. He takes his seat at the piano, plays a Scarlatti sonata. You applaud, he bows, he disappears. You go out to supper.

Wouldn't this likely be the most intense musical experience you ever had, and truly in the spirit of music? And even if you weren't really listening with all your attention on this particular occasion, you'd surely make a note to do so next time.

From this perspective the idea of making balanced programmes for concerts starts to seem almost barbaric. I don't know what other folk think?
Posted by: RonaldSteinway

Re: Scarlatti - 01/09/13 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Chopinlover49
I believe there are at least 2 cd complete collections, but have not purchased a set yet because I find my ear becomes tired after listening to many sonatas from Scarlatti in a row. I usually don't have this problem as I really like a wide variety of music, but I will continue listening to a lot of Scarlatti and will hope my interest increases with familiarity. Does anyone else have this experience?


Imagine two months ago, I watched Schiff performing WTC bk 2. He played very well. However, after 20 minutes, I started getting tired of listening to the same stuff.
Posted by: izaldu

Re: Scarlatti - 01/10/13 10:08 AM

Gilels, Tipo, Benedetti ...
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Scarlatti - 01/10/13 10:32 AM

Originally Posted By: pianoslacker
Originally Posted By: Chopinlover49
I believe there are at least 2 cd complete collections, but have not purchased a set yet because I find my ear becomes tired after listening to many sonatas from Scarlatti in a row. I usually don't have this problem as I really like a wide variety of music, but I will continue listening to a lot of Scarlatti and will hope my interest increases with familiarity. Does anyone else have this experience?


I've been thinking about this. grin Too much music can certainly seem like a nightmare. And in any case is listening to 3, 15, or 550 Scarlatti sonatas really better than listening to just one?

I did hear one time a musician - I have no idea who now - proposing, at least theoretically, concerts composed of just a single piece of music.

Imagine: 6 pm you shower, shave, put on your evening dress, apply make-up. The chauffeur toots down in the street. You go down, drive to the hall. You hang around in the foyer, the bell rings, you take your seat in the auditorium. The lights go down. The pianist emerges, bows, you applaud. He takes his seat at the piano, plays a Scarlatti sonata. You applaud, he bows, he disappears. You go out to supper.

Wouldn't this likely be the most intense musical experience you ever had, and truly in the spirit of music? And even if you weren't really listening with all your attention on this particular occasion, you'd surely make a note to do so next time.

From this perspective the idea of making balanced programmes for concerts starts to seem almost barbaric. I don't know what other folk think?
You're joking, I assume?
Posted by: pianoslacker

Re: Scarlatti - 01/10/13 12:14 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: pianoslacker
Originally Posted By: Chopinlover49
I believe there are at least 2 cd complete collections, but have not purchased a set yet because I find my ear becomes tired after listening to many sonatas from Scarlatti in a row. I usually don't have this problem as I really like a wide variety of music, but I will continue listening to a lot of Scarlatti and will hope my interest increases with familiarity. Does anyone else have this experience?


I've been thinking about this. grin Too much music can certainly seem like a nightmare. And in any case is listening to 3, 15, or 550 Scarlatti sonatas really better than listening to just one?

I did hear one time a musician - I have no idea who now - proposing, at least theoretically, concerts composed of just a single piece of music.

Imagine: 6 pm you shower, shave, put on your evening dress, apply make-up. The chauffeur toots down in the street. You go down, drive to the hall. You hang around in the foyer, the bell rings, you take your seat in the auditorium. The lights go down. The pianist emerges, bows, you applaud. He takes his seat at the piano, plays a Scarlatti sonata. You applaud, he bows, he disappears. You go out to supper.

Wouldn't this likely be the most intense musical experience you ever had, and truly in the spirit of music? And even if you weren't really listening with all your attention on this particular occasion, you'd surely make a note to do so next time.

From this perspective the idea of making balanced programmes for concerts starts to seem almost barbaric. I don't know what other folk think?
You're joking, I assume?


No, not joking really, but maybe being 'idealistic'.
Posted by: outo

Re: Scarlatti - 01/10/13 02:37 PM

Scarlatti is one of my 4 favorite composers. I have heard almost all of the sonatas, but haven't learned many yet. I don't think I could ever grow tired of his sonatas, there's so much variation. I accidentally bought a CD 25 years ago and got hooked right away...I didn't play then, but when I started I pretty soon took some sonatas to my teacher... They were a bit too hard, but I still learned a lot from them.

Unlike most people I tend to prefer the slower ones and his later works (assuming the ones with higher K numbers were composed last, there still seems to be a some uncertainty about that). I have so many favorites it's impossible to even list them.

Currently working on K434. Such a gem! With my low skill level I think his music gives me the best chance to express myself and actually enjoy the learning process. And since it keeps me so motivated I progress a lot with every piece I play. So I think old Fred was very smart to use them as teaching pieces.

His music also seems to be quite timeless, even though it's baroque era music, it has also very modern sounding elements.

I don't really like the sound of the harpsichord, so I like them on piano, but I do prefer a more "harpsichordist" playing style with Scarlatti. It's a pity Michelangeli recorded so few, love his precision. Horowitch's are nice too and Clara Haskill's.

BTW: If you haven't heard K99 you should, it's one of the most beautiful IMO...
Posted by: Works1

Re: Scarlatti - 01/11/13 09:44 AM

This has been a very informative thread. Thanks all!!

I have selected a few of the Scarlatti sonatas to learn but am having trouble finding them all in one collection.

Can someone recommend the best edition(s) for the Scarlatti sonatas?

Here is a list of the sonatas I would like to learn (as a start):

K455
K9
K27
K162
K531
K87

Thanks smile
Posted by: Gerard12

Re: Scarlatti - 01/11/13 11:13 AM

Originally Posted By: worov
Quote:
I don't know who is playing the harpsichord on these - Scott Ross, maybe?


Thank you for the links. To my knowledge, there are only two complete sets on harpsichord : Scott Roos and Pieter-Jan Belder. So if the recordings in these links are all made by the same performer, I guess it could be one of these.


I believe that the artist on these is Richard Lester. I recently purchased a handful of mp3's from his complete set on Nimbus and I enjoy them very much.

One of my favorite soundtracks for highway driving is the disc of 15 Scarlatti sonatas played on harpsichord by Christophe Rousset: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdF_S57fyK8.

(Not the strongest performance from the collection, but it's the only YT link to his Scarlatti that I can find.)
Posted by: outo

Re: Scarlatti - 01/11/13 01:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Works1


Can someone recommend the best edition(s) for the Scarlatti sonatas?



I have two of the 3 Henle collections, The 2 Peters collections, the Schirmer 60 sonatas collection and one book from the series of complete Heugel Paris editions (which cost a small fortune). They are all ok, some more edited than others. But if you want certain selected sonatas to try, you are better off printing from IMSLP, unless you want to spend a fortune on getting a whole series of complete sonatas. There are 555 of them so it's quite a few books.

From your list K9 and K87 are both in the first Peters book, but the others are not in any of my books.

I would just stay away from the Longo editions, since he had a habit of "correcting" the unconventionalities in the sonatas.
Posted by: Works1

Re: Scarlatti - 01/11/13 02:11 PM

Originally Posted By: outo
Originally Posted By: Works1


Can someone recommend the best edition(s) for the Scarlatti sonatas?



I have two of the 3 Henle collections, The 2 Peters collections, the Schirmer 60 sonatas collection and one book from the series of complete Heugel Paris editions (which cost a small fortune). They are all ok, some more edited than others. But if you want certain selected sonatas to try, you are better off printing from IMSLP, unless you want to spend a fortune on getting a whole series of complete sonatas. There are 555 of them so it's quite a few books.

From your list K9 and K87 are both in the first Peters book, but the others are not in any of my books.

I would just stay away from the Longo editions, since he had a habit of "correcting" the unconventionalities in the sonatas.



Thanks outo. I saw a couple of editions from Alfred on Sheetmusicplus that had most of the ones I wanted so I think I will start with those as well as the first Peters Edition book for K87. And thanks for the tip on the Longo editions!
Posted by: worov

Re: Scarlatti - 01/11/13 02:49 PM

If you want a complete edition, there are only three of them.

- the Longo edition, published by Ricordi. First published in 1906, this was the first more or less complete collection of the sonatas amongst the existing editions then. As outo said, it has many errors. And it uses a different catalogue than the standard Kirkpatrick. However it is the only complete edition wich provides fingering. It's now in the public domain. Availalable at the IMSLP.

- The Kenneth Gilbert edition, published by Heugel. Scholarly work, following and facsimiles, plus an exam of the first printings. Although prettyclose to the original, Gilbert has modernised substantially the notation. It's still in print. However it is a bit pricey.

- The Emilia Fadini, published by Ricordi. This is the new Ricordi edition, in accordance with Urtext standard. However it is not complete yet. Eight volumes have been published. Two volumes are yet to be published. This is the one I use. If I'm looking for a sonata which is not yet edited in this edition, I use the Longo edition.
Posted by: Works1

Re: Scarlatti - 01/11/13 03:14 PM

Thanks worov, that is great information!!
Posted by: outo

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 02:17 AM

Originally Posted By: worov

- The Emilia Fadini, published by Ricordi. This is the new Ricordi edition, in accordance with Urtext standard. However it is not complete yet. Eight volumes have been published. Two volumes are yet to be published. This is the one I use. If I'm looking for a sonata which is not yet edited in this edition, I use the Longo edition.


Thanks for the information. My plan was to get one of these next to try it out. I assume they are good quality in print also? I have problems with my eyes, so it's important for me that the printing is clear and the note heads are large enough with good spacing.
Posted by: worov

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 05:05 AM

Quote:

Thanks for the information. My plan was to get one of these next to try it out. I assume they are good quality in print also? I have problems with my eyes, so it's important for me that the printing is clear and the note heads are large enough with good spacing.



You can check some images on Ricordi website. Here's one :

Emilia Fadini edition excerpt

I have good eyes. So the print is fine for me. However the binding isn't very good. The book won't stay open easily. To my knowledge, Ricordi doesn't make these in hardcover. I wish they did.
Posted by: outo

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 05:19 AM

Originally Posted By: worov
Quote:

Thanks for the information. My plan was to get one of these next to try it out. I assume they are good quality in print also? I have problems with my eyes, so it's important for me that the printing is clear and the note heads are large enough with good spacing.



You can check some images on Ricordi website. Here's one :

Emilia Fadini edition excerpt

I have good eyes. So the print is fine for me. However the binding isn't very good. The book won't stay open easily. To my knowledge, Ricordi doesn't make these in hardcover. I wish they did.



Thanks! That was quite clear, no problem.

It is the same with Heugel, badly bound and cheap paper...for that price one would expect better.
Posted by: wr

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 05:50 AM

Originally Posted By: worov


- the Longo edition, published by Ricordi. First published in 1906, this was the first more or less complete collection of the sonatas amongst the existing editions then. As outo said, it has many errors. And it uses a different catalogue than the standard Kirkpatrick. However it is the only complete edition wich provides fingering. It's now in the public domain. Availalable at the IMSLP.



The bit about the "different catalogue than the standard Kirkpatrick" struck me as funny, because the Longo WAS the standard catalog before the K. numbers came along.

It's really too bad that Longo decided to "clean up" the sonatas as part of his editorial philosophy - I guess at the time it probably must have made some kind of sense, but now it just seems strangely dishonest, not to mention condescending to the buyer.
Posted by: outo

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 07:38 AM

Originally Posted By: worov
Quote:

Thanks for the information. My plan was to get one of these next to try it out. I assume they are good quality in print also? I have problems with my eyes, so it's important for me that the printing is clear and the note heads are large enough with good spacing.



You can check some images on Ricordi website. Here's one :

Emilia Fadini edition excerpt



I wonder if you could help me with one more thing. I have problems identifying the right publications where I shop (di-arezzo) and the English version of the Ricordi website is a complete mess. So I haven't been able to buy any of the Fadini editions confused

Are these arranged by K or L numbers? If so, do they go in order? I would want to buy the first 100 K sonatas, can you help me with the right catalogue number?
Posted by: Gerard12

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 08:25 AM

This search page from Sheet Music Plus will lead you to the page(s) that contains the listing for each of the first 8 volumes:

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/search?q=scarlatti+sonatas+ricordi+fadini
Posted by: outo

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 08:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Gerard12
This search page from Sheet Music Plus will lead you to the page(s) that contains the listing for each of the first 8 volumes:

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/search?q=scarlatti+sonatas+ricordi+fadini


Thanks!

I found the right volume but I still cannot find them on di-arezzo frown
Posted by: worov

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 09:28 AM

I’m not familiar with di-arezzo website. I buy at my local music shop. If they don’t have the book in stock, I ask them to order it.

Anyway, if this can be of any help, here are the ISBN numbers for each book. I found these on Ricordi website (the Italian website, not the english one).

Volume 1 : 9790041827490
Volume 2 : 9790041827506
Volume 3 : 9790041827513
Volume 4 : 9790041827520
Volume 5 : 9790041827537
Volume 6 : 9790041827544
Volume 7 : 9790041827551
Volume 8 : 9790041827568

The Fadini edition doesn’t use the Longo order, neither the Kirkpatrick order. It uses the order of the manuscript of Venice if my memory serves me good. Emilia Fadini talks about it in the preface. I’ll tell about it later (I’m at work now).

I have borrowed at the library some volumes of the Heugel edition some years ago. The librarian did some binding work on the books. Thanks to this the books were in very good shape with hardcovers and lay flat perfectly. So I can’t say anything about Heugel’s original binding. The paper print was very good.
Posted by: outo

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 10:23 AM

I found this:

http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/sheet+music/c...c22f89fdfb68475

Do you think it's the right one?

I'm just confused because the page number doesn't match the one on Sheetmusic plus. I don't want to accidently get a wrong one. I am often frusrated by the lack of information on their site, but I am otherwise very happy with the service. Sheet music cost a fortune on shops up here so must order online.
Posted by: worov

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 10:26 AM

I searched a bit on Di Arezzo. It's listed under the title "Complete Sonatas per Clavicembalo".

Here's volume one :

Emilia Fadini is mentionned : "A cura di Emilia Fadini". So that's the right book.
Posted by: worov

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 10:27 AM

i wrote my post while you were writing.

Yes, that's volume 2.
Posted by: outo

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 10:31 AM

Thanks. I also sent them an e-mail smile

I guess I should learn French, maybe there's more information on the French pages than the English ones frown
Posted by: worov

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 02:18 PM

Quote:

I'm just confused because the page number doesn't match the one on Sheetmusic plus. I don't want to accidently get a wrong one. I am often frusrated by the lack of information on their site, but I am otherwise very happy with the service. Sheet music cost a fortune on shops up here so must order online.


Page number don't match, that's right. Because Di Arezzo doesn't count the preface and the thematic index (which both contain roman numerals).
Posted by: outo

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 02:50 PM

Originally Posted By: worov
Quote:

I'm just confused because the page number doesn't match the one on Sheetmusic plus. I don't want to accidently get a wrong one. I am often frusrated by the lack of information on their site, but I am otherwise very happy with the service. Sheet music cost a fortune on shops up here so must order online.


Page number don't match, that's right. Because Di Arezzo doesn't count the preface and the thematic index (which both contain roman numerals).


Thanks again! I think it's safe to order then smile
Posted by: worov

Re: Scarlatti - 01/12/13 02:59 PM

I'm at home now. Here's an excerpt of the preface :

This critical edition of all the sonatas of Domenico Scarlatti is justified by the necessity of offering performers and scholars a text which is philologically faithful to the author's intentions (in so far as this can be reconstructed through a comparative study of the surviving printed and manuscript sources) and which is presented as authentically as possible, free from editorial interference or suggestions for performance or interpretation. The study of musicology and especially of the performing traditions of baroque music has advanced considerably since Alessandro Longo achieved the mammoth task of publishing the entire corpus of Scarlatti's sonatas for the first time, and today we can deal with problems of text and interpretation with a surer and deeper methodological awareness; all of these will be adequately treated in the Appendix to this edition, which will contain also a general thematic catalog of the complete sonatas.

However, what still remains to be established despite the valuable contributions of eminent scholars is the chronology of composition. Besides the rare editions printed during Scarlatti’s lifetime – even today there are no known autograph copies of the sonatas – the numerous surviving manuscripts, which are the work of the contemporary or later copyists, carry dates which surely refer to the copying and not the time of composition.

For this reason we have decided to publish the sonatas in the order in which they appear in the Venice manuscript, but this decision is not meant in any way to indicate that this manuscript has been used as a primary source. It is the most complete, comprising as it does four hundred and ninety-six sonatas, and the presence of royal emblems on the binding (the Spanish and Portuguese coats of arms crossed) proves that it must have belonged to the Queen of Spain The sonatas in the Venice codex are therefore followed by those contained in other manuscripts and finally those that were printed in 18th century publications, in this order :

Vol. I Venice codex XIV
Vol. II >> >> XIV-XV
Vol. III >> >> I-II
Vol. IV >> >> III-IV
Vol. V >> >> V-VI
Vol. VI >> >> VII-VIII
Vol. VII >> >> IX-X
Vol. VIII >> >> XI-XII
Vol. IX >> >> XIII and sonatas include in other manuscripts
Vol. X
Essercizi per Gravicembalo and sonatas extracted from other eighteenth century editions (not contained in primary manuscript sources).