Paris Amateur Competition 2013

Posted by: pianovirus

Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/11/13 03:50 PM

Piano Friends,

If I'm not mistaken it's less than two weeks until the Paris Competition for this year will take place. And no thread about it on PW? Well, I searched and could not find one.

Like last year, I'm not participating. But nevertheless I would be very interested to hear some "insider" smile stories about it from participants before and during the competition.

So I wonder, like in previous years, will there be some participation from PW members? What are you guys playing?! Everyone well prepared?? laugh To all those who are now in their final preparation stage: best of luck, and most importantly: Have fun!

Cheers,
pianovirus
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/11/13 05:33 PM

I'm not going either, and I wouldn't be surprised if none of our active members are since it doesn't seem like anybody has said anything. I'll also be interested to hear news about it from anyone who can share.
Posted by: pianovirus

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/11/13 09:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I'm not going either, and I wouldn't be surprised if none of our active members are since it doesn't seem like anybody has said anything. I'll also be interested to hear news about it from anyone who can share.


Wow, so if none of the participants would hang out in piano forum, they must all be practising diligently.

Scary thought! shocked laugh
Posted by: musica71

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/11/13 10:14 PM


I know Fuzzy 8 Balls (??) is going.
Posted by: pianovirus

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 12:44 PM

Originally Posted By: musica71

I know Fuzzy 8 Balls (??) is going.


Thanks, musica! I hope Gorden (hopefully joined by some other participants) will share some of his experiences with us like in the previous year (or was it already the year before that? I lost track...)

In any case, my bet is he'll be a likely candidate for the finals...if not more.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 12:45 PM

Originally Posted By: pianovirus
....(or was it already the year before that? I lost track...)

I did too. ha

Quote:
In any case, my bet is he'll be a likely candidate for the finals...if not more.

+1!
Posted by: ClsscLib

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 12:59 PM

For those of us who are relative newcomers, could someone please provide some information about this competition?

More generally, I'm not sure what an "amateur" piano competition is and what types of players enter one.

I'm guessing that these are very, very skilled players, but where and how is the line between "amateur" and "unrecognized professional" drawn?

I'm not nearly far enough into my 10,000-hour-until-mastery program to consider entering, but I wonder what types of musicians do.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 01:57 PM

Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
but I wonder what types of musicians do.


All members in this thread including me and fuzzy.

A brief search will take you to past competitions and discussion about amateurism.
Posted by: fuzzy8balls

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 02:47 PM

Yep I'm going... and I've prepared only 30 minutes of repertoire this time.

Beethoven Piano Sonata Op. 14 No. 1
Bach Prelude & Fugue in e-flat minor Book1
Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet: Juliet, Mercutio, Montague & Capulets

-Gorden
Posted by: Damon

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 04:33 PM

I'm going to skip the Paris this year.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 06:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
I'm going to skip the Paris this year.

.....but we expect to see you at the CHOPIN in a couple of years. ha
Posted by: pianovirus

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
I'm going to skip the Paris this year.

.....but we expect to see you at the CHOPIN in a couple of years. ha


Ok so I guess there will be a big PW reunion in Warsaw (in 2015 I think?). Count me in! smile
Posted by: Damon

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 06:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
I'm going to skip the Paris this year.

.....but we expect to see you at the CHOPIN in a couple of years. ha


If they have a sub-amateur Liszt competition in Missouri, I'll consider entering. I don't travel well.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 08:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
If they have a sub-amateur Liszt competition in Missouri, I'll consider entering. I don't travel well.

No, I said CHOPIN! grin

BTW I think you'd have to be in the super-sub-amateur division....
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 08:49 PM

Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
For those of us who are relative newcomers, could someone please provide some information about this competition?

More generally, I'm not sure what an "amateur" piano competition is and what types of players enter one.

I'm guessing that these are very, very skilled players, but where and how is the line between "amateur" and "unrecognized professional" drawn?....

Hey folks, why shouldn't we give him more of an answer right here....

Your guess about the level of the players is right, although there's a fair range within any given event and from one event to another. To be admitted to some of them, like the Cliburn, you have to be real good. How good is that? Let's say, good enough that it wouldn't be insane to think of becoming a professional. I mean, it would be insane for most of us to actually do it ha but....you get the idea. For some of the competitions, it's OK to give it a try if you're at least what I'd call upper-level-intermediate.

Some of the people in these events are really at a professional or near-professional level, and some of them have advanced degrees in piano and in some cases have actually been professionals in the past, which of course raises legitimate questions about whether they're really amateurs. The people who win are usually from that highest group.

For anyone wondering if they're ready to enter one of these events, more important than how far you are above "upper intermediate" is that your pieces should be extremely well-prepared and that you be very comfortable with them. The repertoire requirements are very flexible. Basically you can play whatever you want.

Maybe we'll be seeing you at some of the events!
Posted by: Damon

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C

BTW I think you'd have to be in the super-sub-amateur division....


That wasn't very nice.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 09:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

BTW I think you'd have to be in the super-sub-amateur division....
That wasn't very nice.

grin

(I trust that you knew what I meant!) smile
Posted by: ClsscLib

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/12/13 10:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
For those of us who are relative newcomers, could someone please provide some information about this competition?

More generally, I'm not sure what an "amateur" piano competition is and what types of players enter one.

I'm guessing that these are very, very skilled players, but where and how is the line between "amateur" and "unrecognized professional" drawn?....

Hey folks, why shouldn't we give him more of an answer right here....

Your guess about the level of the players is right, although there's a fair range within any given event and from one event to another. To be admitted to some of them, like the Cliburn, you have to be real good. How good is that? Let's say, good enough that it wouldn't be insane to think of becoming a professional. I mean, it would be insane for most of us to actually do it ha but....you get the idea. For some of the competitions, it's OK to give it a try if you're at least what I'd call upper-level-intermediate. Some of the people in these events are really at a professional or near-professional level, and some of them have advanced degrees in piano and in some cases have actually been professionals in the past, which of course raises legitimate questions about whether they're really amateurs. The people who win are usually from that highest group.

For anyone wondering if they're ready to enter one of these events, more important than how far you are above "upper intermediate" is that your pieces should be extremely well-prepared and that you be very comfortable with them. The repertoire requirements are very flexible. Basically you can play whatever you want.

Maybe we'll be seeing you at some of the events!


Thanks, Mark -- very informative explanation.

If you indeed see me at one of these competitions, it's likely to be in the audience, but that's okay too. I'd love to watch some of you folks play!
Posted by: Ganddalf

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/13/13 02:34 AM

I seriously considered to sign on for the "Pianobridge" competition in St.Petersburg (Russia) this summer. The reason was that I was offered early retirement from my employer, and would have ample time to practice.

This competition has separate classes for participants with or without a diploma, and this was one of the reasons why this competition sounded interesting for me (holding no diploma).

I managed, however, to find a new full time job, and therefore I decided to skip the competition. I would have invested some 500 hours preparing and this is out of question now. Maybe 5 - 10 years.
Posted by: Nigel Keay

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/14/13 04:17 AM

For the final on Sunday 24th it seems there's only one ticket price of €25; that's obviously planning for a very high standard or a very long concert...
Anyway if anyone going is wondering what to do on the Saturday evening before, I've got a new Oboe Sonata that'll be premiered in a recital at Cité des Arts, a central venue (short walk from Notre Dame).
Posted by: pianovirus

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/21/13 02:07 PM

Breaking news: laugh

I hear from well-informed sources that Gorden has advanced! Way to go!!!

But apparently the selection was for "quarter finals", which is a Paris specialty: an intermediate round for candidates that the jury liked but wants to hear again before selecting some of them for the semifinals. Candidates can also be selected directly from first round to semifinals.

Having heard Gorden before, I would have expected him to move directly to semifinals. So it seems to me there must be lots of very good amateur pianists in Paris this year?? shocked

I hope everyone is having fun there!

P.S. Nigel, best wishes for the premiere of your Oboe sonata!
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/21/13 02:21 PM

Yes -- as you know, the "quarter-finals" is sort of a purgatory. grin

When the results of the 1st round are announced, they say the quarter-finalists first, before the ones who are going directly to the semi-finals. So, it's odd because you don't really want to hear your name announced, even if not being in the 1/4-finals means you won't be advancing at all. This result could mean what you said, or that Gorden had an off-day, or just that his style and approach weren't to the liking of one or more of the judges. But it's worth remembering that people from the quarter-finals have often wound up advancing to the finals and sometimes even won. I was there one time when the eventual winner almost didn't even make the quarter-finals. He had made what I thought was for him a poor repertoire choice for the 1st round (last mvt of Prokofiev 7th), played it aggressively and without much regard to the small room (and also got sort of lost for a while), and wasn't even on the initial list of people who advanced at all, but the judges thought for a few seconds more and figured what the heck. He wound up winning -- probably because they sort of wouldn't let him play the Prokofiev sonata in the finals even though he really really wanted to. ha

Gorden's not being put directly in the semi-finals could also be partly because of some issues of his first time in that event (when he did make the finals), things that weren't directly about how he played. He disagreed that it was any issue for anything, but I thought it probably was, and it might still be. That competition has its quirks. The issue (as I saw it) was mainly about that thing of deciding the repertoire for the finals. If he advances to the finals, look for them to try to be very strong to him about what he 'should' play, and he may well not like it. I sure wouldn't have in my 'younger days.' smile
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/21/13 02:40 PM

It makes much more sense I think for any competition to lay out the repertoire requirements for each round in advance and then leave the rest to the competitors. It's somewhat arrogant for the judges to decide anything about which pieces a contestant should play for any reason.

Does any other competition, professional or amateur, do this?
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/21/13 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Does any other competition, professional or amateur, do this?

Certainly no other amateur competition, and none at all that I know of.
Posted by: musica71

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/21/13 03:00 PM

Last year the winner Piers-Smith advanced to the quarter finals...then with his showy style ended up winning!
Posted by: musica71

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/21/13 04:55 PM

Paris Semi Finalists...Bach, Bedon, Carpentier, Jubin, Maulide, Matzener, Prat. 2 openings that will be filled by Qtr Finalists. Courtesy of Peter Bishpam.
Posted by: pianovirus

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/21/13 05:03 PM

Thanks, musica!!

Originally Posted By: musica71
Bach


Oh what a lucky person to be born in such a family!!! laugh

I hope he or she will not choose to play "Bach-hyphenated" in the semifinals laugh --something which is allowed instead of "pure" Bach in Paris, which I don't really consider a good thing because the romantic transcriptions require such different skills...
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/21/13 08:02 PM

I'm pretty sure the "2 openings to be filled" by quarter-finalists is just a guess. Judging from my past experience there, it could be some other number, and usually is MORE.

Do we know if the 'Bach' person really is from that family?

BTW, I happen to know someone who is, and she says that most of the other family members that she knows don't think it's much of a big deal because they're more into rock and rap and stuff like that. crazy
Posted by: beet31425

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/21/13 08:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Do we know if the 'Bach' person really is from that family?

Well, at least I'm from the same species as Bach, which, at a cosmic level, is pretty significant.

-J
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/21/13 11:10 PM

Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Do we know if the 'Bach' person really is from that family?

Well, at least I'm from the same species as Bach, which, at a cosmic level, is pretty significant.

I don't think I am. ha

BTW, in college I invented a mnemonic for remembering the categories of living things. I should copyright it some time. grin

Probably the inspiration was the condition of the house I shared with a bunch of other guys.

K(ingdom)ITCHEN
P(hylum)ESTS
C(lass)AN
O(rder)OZE
F(amily)ROM
G(enus)OOKY
S(pecies)TOVES

To this day, it's the only way I can remember them. Not that I need it for anything, but what the hey. smile
Posted by: pianovirus

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/22/13 07:30 AM

Ok, from the many interesting ways we can be related with Bach -> back to Paris for a moment smile

Gorden is in semifinals; congrats!
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/22/13 11:59 AM

Originally Posted By: pianovirus
Gorden is in semifinals; congrats!

thumb
Posted by: musica71

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/22/13 06:53 PM

Just heard Gorden did not make the Finals. Don't know the names of those that did, 2 Frenchmen and an Italian I believe.
Posted by: musica71

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/22/13 09:02 PM

Finalists...Maulide,Carpentier, Gilardi, Matzener, Bach. Courtesy Peter Bispham.
Posted by: kapelli

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/23/13 02:33 PM

However I'm not looking at this competition, but I would like to participate... maybe in 10 years time, when I will have my own grand smile

But what I don't like about COMPETITIONS FOR OUTSTANDING AMATEURS, is that many people taking part in these competitions are fully trained pianists with diplomas, after master courses etc.

Sorry, but the are not amateurs (in my opinion). Amateur for me as a person who has SOME (because you need to have some) musical experience, but if anybody has piano diploma so he is prepared to do this professionaly...
Posted by: RonaldSteinway

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/23/13 04:07 PM

It is funny that nobody will say that he or she went to an engineering school for fun, or got nursing diploma for fun. Only people with piano degree who joined amateur competitions will not consider their degree as a proof that they can make money off of it, or has the potential to make money. They consider their four year degree is nothing, just about like the knowledge of a real real amateur who took piano lesson once a week and no need to study music theory, music history, harmony, etc.
Posted by: kapelli

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 02/23/13 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
It is funny that nobody will say that he or she went to an engineering school for fun, or got nursing diploma for fun. Only people with piano degree who joined amateur competitions will not consider their degree as a proof that they can make money off of it, or has the potential to make money. They consider their four year degree is nothing, just about like the knowledge of a real real amateur who took piano lesson once a week and no need to study music theory, music history, harmony, etc.


+1 thumb
Posted by: Nigel Keay

Re: Paris Amateur Competition 2013 - 03/07/13 06:24 AM

Originally Posted By: pianovirus
P.S. Nigel, best wishes for the premiere of your Oboe sonata!

Thanks, pianovirus. It went really well. I've just put the recording of that concert performance on my webpage here Oboe Sonata (unedited but chopped into the three movements). Thanks to the duo for letting me do that. It was an assured and well in-control performance, as I expected it would be having been to a couple of rehearsals, but I still felt a bit on edge sitting there in the audience, wondering how the audience was receiving it. Normal I suppose, for a new piece - I'm usually performing them myself...